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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-08-13

---Logopened Thu Aug 13 00:00:02 2015
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07:40<Wolf01> playing in the mud
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27384 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2015-08-13 19:45:15 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 35 changes by juanjo
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14:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r27385 trunk/src/os/windows/win32.cpp (2015-08-13 20:13:24 +0200 )
14:13<@DorpsGek>-Fix: compilation failure due #define-ing enum name of a system library before including the system library
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14:20<@Alberth>hi hi
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14:21<@Alberth>you make very short visits these days :)
14:21<andythenorth>brain in other places :)
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14:52*andythenorth will be back in the game in a few weeks :P
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15:00<Wolf01> the cat is not sure about that
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15:15<Ether_Man>Hi. I was reading a bit on exactly how the cargo income calculations work but one thing that I cant seem to find is when exactly the timer starts. Is it when cargo is added to the station? When a transport loads it, or when a transport leaves the terminal or?
15:16<@Alberth>when it loads, it starts for that cargo
15:17<frosch123>Ether_Man: cargo ages while inside a vehicle
15:17<frosch123>it does not age at stations
15:17<frosch123>even during transfers
15:17<Ether_Man>Right. So a bad choice generally then to have trains waiting in a station until full :)
15:18<frosch123>yup, on short routes shorter trains are better
15:18<frosch123>the loading time should not be a too big percentage of the total roundabout time
15:21<Ether_Man>Hmm.. Then is there any better way to have it better spread out multiple trains doing the same route? Because say I do a passenger line with 4 stations. The first train arrives, picks up all passengers, and leaves, then the next train arrives, and almost no passengers, so loading is really fast. So it is even less time on station, resulting in that it simply catches up to the first train faster and faster until eventually, all trains are stuck together, whic
15:21<Ether_Man>h defeats the purpose of having multiple trains there in the first place :/
15:22<@Alberth>generally, use time tables
15:22<@Alberth>a simpler approach is to make a long length of track without signals, so trains cannot drive closely after each other
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>in the easiest case, set the loading time of the timetable to what it takes to fully unload and load
15:23<frosch123>my prefered method is to set the loading time for such vehicles to something like 5 to 10 days
15:23<frosch123>don't set the travel time though
15:23<Ether_Man>But setting a loading time means it loads the passenger and thus, the timer starts directly. Same thing with timetable :/
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>if you set the travel time, you can do better planning of distances between trains, but it may fluctuate a lot
15:24<frosch123>Ether_Man: it sets a minimum time for loading, and if you only use one platform, that implies a minimum distance between trains
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, if 2 additional days of waiting screw up your income, you probably are doing things wrong on a different level
15:25<frosch123>if a train loads for at least 10 days, it can only follow the previous train after 10 days
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>the cargo age ticks every 2.5 days
15:25<Ether_Man>Eddi|zuHause, it's not about getting an income as such. Getting huge income is easy, but looking at optimizing, which is a bit more difficult :)
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes optimizing on the big scale means de-optimizing on the micro scale
15:26<Ether_Man>frosch123, yes, but then it's also wasting 10 days of cargo age :)
15:26<Ether_Man>Eddi|zuHause, yea I was really hoping to avoid having to do that >_<
15:26<frosch123>well, then use sparse signals
15:26<frosch123>so a train cannot enter the station immediately
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>Ether_Man: you can also do "go to X (unload only), wait for A days" and "go to X (load), wait for B days"
15:27<Ether_Man>frosch123, Mm. That seems to gonna have to be the approach
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>if it's a dead end station, it'll turn around and load
15:28<Ether_Man>I dont do dead end stations. All my stations are ro-ro :)
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>if it's not a dead end station, you should use [beginning/end of platform]
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>so it can go to the same platform twice without leaving the station
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>platforms should be longer than trains in that case
15:29*andythenorth wants an order to make trains leave the station if another train arrives
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it works with same length, not tested
15:36<Ether_Man>andythenorth, I deff support that order.
15:36<Ether_Man>I'd also like an order like "wait X days before loading", and/or "leave cargo at the station until enough to max train"... Or simply to treat cargo as on station until the transport leaves the station. I'm fine with the timer then also ticking while in transfer at a station
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>there won't be any such orders before anyone cleans up the order gui. it's way too overloaded
15:38<andythenorth>I’d like an order ‘leave station if it’s Tuesday'
15:38<andythenorth>and also ‘if a black cat passes my door'
15:39*andythenorth doesn’t understand all these fancy orders
15:39<andythenorth>nor how people make the game so hard
15:39<andythenorth>why does Baldy need to audit 40k departures and arrivals?
15:39*andythenorth just wins, easily, every time
15:39<andythenorth>* except in MP
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>nobody really understands what Baldy needs
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>not even Baldy's Boss
15:40<peter1138>So Windows 10 appears to have lost most of my Start Menu items :S
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: they weren't important anyway.
15:40<peter1138>Oh, okay.
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i'd look into difference between "public" and "personal" menu entries
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15:52<@Rubidium>peter1138: isn't that due to the HP website redesign?
16:02<@Alberth>in MP everybody wins? :)
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>what i'd like to see (besides of what i already mentioned with the timetables) is a histogram that for each year and each cargo it records how far each cargo packet travelled and how much it earned
16:09<@Alberth>that's easy, it's all 0
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>and generally, better graph views
16:09<@Alberth>cargo doesn't travel or work
16:10<@Alberth>more visual pictures
16:10<@Alberth>more stats
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>you're so negative lately...
16:10<@Alberth>just looking very busy and impressive
16:11<@Alberth>yeah, too much whining, maybe I am growing old :p
16:11<@Alberth>good night all :)
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16:18*andythenorth is old
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause>i think we need a more clear mention of "refittable in depot" and "refittable in stations" in the purchase list
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>where it currently just says "refittable", presumably
17:15<peter1138>Oh, s/pdif dac works better when the coax cable is connected...
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21:48<Ether_Man>Anyone that can explain why a mine would have ~30% cargo transported, despite a train coming through every 15 days or so and empties the station? Do I need multiple stations for a single mine or something?
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21:59<Eddi|zuHause>station rating is highest if there is always a train waiting
22:00<Ether_Man>So the cargo transported, is actually not about amount of cargo transported but about the station rating?
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>cargo transported is basically the average station rating during the month. the industry production is multiplied by this value before transporting the cargo to your station
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>the name is slightly misleading
22:02<Ether_Man>Indeed >_<
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>it's not how much you transported, but how much the mine gives you to transport
22:02<Ether_Man>Was it always like that in TT or is that openttd specific? Don't remember it being like that at all from when I was a kid
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>it was always like that
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>and memories from when you were a kid are notoriously unreliable :p
22:03<Ether_Man>k. Well cheers. Guess it's time to redo that network... again :)
22:04<Eddi|zuHause>there are ways you can override this mechanics. e.g. FIRS allows you to set the station rating to 100% always
22:06<Ether_Man>Hmm... Firs looks interesting. Never heard of it before but looks like it could be interesting, although not for that reason. It's fine like that, as long as I know what the heck is going on :)
22:18<Eddi|zuHause>even after 20 years you can and will find things that work differently than you thought they were
22:23<Ether_Man>Indeed. I used to think 4 trains on a single main line with terminals at the end in each direction was hard to manage. Though I dont remember being able to set one-way and such back then
22:24<Eddi|zuHause>TT original didn't have one-way, that was introduced in TTD
22:24<Ether_Man>Ah. Never played deluxe. Only had the original back then :)
22:25<Eddi|zuHause>but i played TT so much that i worked out my own method how to get my train network to be one-way
22:26<Ether_Man>I just went with, terminal, one or two passing loops and then terminal again. Slow, but worked :)
22:27<+glx>the AI way ;)
22:27<Ether_Man>Quite possibly I learned it from the AI :)
22:34<Sylf>go learn from other players (multi player) - I find that the best place to learn
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23:48<Ether_Man>Sylf, meh, I don't like the stress of playing against others in a game like tt. I wanna take my time planning every move and rather build something nice by my self. Generally don't even have AI players active anymore :)
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 14 00:00:03 2015