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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-08-28

---Logopened Fri Aug 28 00:00:22 2015
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02:09<Supercheese>multiplayer is fun, but Reddit #2 uses too many train grfs
02:09<Supercheese>and they have vehicles never expire, so the list is enormous
02:11<Supercheese>at least they have daylength, so when I go afk it's still the same century when I come back
02:12<Supercheese>but dang... I start building my network, turn around to check the time and five hours have passed
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02:43<@Alberth>yep, it's one of the open problems, openttd eats time :)
02:44<@Alberth>sp has the advantage you can just save, and do a little more the next day
02:52<Supercheese>Indeed
02:53<Supercheese>but I rarely, if ever, leave my singleplayer game running overnight, and risk a catastrophic traffic jam or whatnot while I'm unable to fix it
02:54<Supercheese>it's a bit exiting to have that risk hanging over you; "Will my network withstand 12 hours of running without something breaking?"
02:56<Supercheese>it's also very fun to send Farm/Eng supplies to every single producing industry on the network
02:57<Supercheese>requires a station route to every industry, rather than just ctrl+joining a bunch of tiles together to create one megastation
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03:43<@planetmaker>o/
03:52<@Alberth>moin
03:53<@Alberth>I build a loop along the industries when delivering supplies
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03:54<Wolf01>hi o/
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04:00<Wolf01>hello Celestar
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04:13<@Alberth>hi hi
04:14<@Alberth>planetmaker: hehe, I was so tempted to reply: "With your notion of 'not using a GS', I believe that immediately" :p
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04:34<Flygon>Supercheese: It'd be kinda fun to have some sort of infinitely horizontally scrolling (like Civ II) OpenTTD map... with MP
04:34<Flygon>That's a giant size
04:34<Flygon>Basically: Start an Earth MP map with real world GRFs
04:34<Supercheese>I dunno, huge maps are just too sparsely populated
04:34<Flygon>Issue is that the giant size would cause desyncs, and you'd hit issues with OTTD's other engine limitations :U
04:35<Supercheese>I mean you can have ten guys all building huge networks... each in their own corner of the map, never seeing each other
04:35<Supercheese>so the MP becomes SP with no pause button
04:41<@Alberth>indeed
04:41<@planetmaker>hehe, Alberth, yeah, thought along those lines, too (re using GS)
04:42<@Alberth>you can fill about 512x512 on your own, so 2048x2048 gives you 16 players doing that
04:42<@planetmaker>it was to me once again a lesson: ask for a savegame showing the problem right upfront
04:42<@Alberth>don't even bother about 4096x4096 it's just a sea of nothing
04:43<@Alberth>planetmaker: yeah, but it was so obvious a user problem, I mean all options work but one, and he's the only one having it
04:43<@Alberth>oh sure, it's a bug to report :p
04:44<@planetmaker>yes, true. But still no point in guess work w/o savegame :)
04:44<@Alberth>indeed, that's why I stopped after 'do you have a GS'
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04:47<Wolf01>we need to think again about the game features... the reality is a lot more weird than ottd http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aojW2Rn_460s.jpg
04:47<Supercheese>Boy, one disruption to your supplies, and your entire feedback loop crashes
04:47<Supercheese>eesh
04:48<@planetmaker>you need overflow loops :)
04:48<@planetmaker>err s/loops/depots/
04:48<Supercheese>not traffic
04:48<Supercheese>I mean production
04:48<@planetmaker>ah, yeah
04:48<Supercheese>Ore -> Metal -> Supplies -> More ore
04:48<@planetmaker>it's even realistic ;)
04:48<Supercheese>one link breaks, suddenly production volume plummets
04:48<Supercheese>I kno rite
04:48<@planetmaker>I kno yu kno :P
04:49<Supercheese>but hey that's what makes it fun
04:49<@planetmaker>:) And that's what counts
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05:01<@Alberth>Wolf01: nah, that's a bug in reality
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05:31<Supercheese>Man, it's amazing what 1 ton a month of Manufacturing Supplies will do to productivity
05:31<@Alberth>ha :)
05:53<Supercheese>Wellp, time to leave my network overnight
05:54<Supercheese>hopefully it survives until morning
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10:37<meslinjf>Can anyone help me compile a source document for OpenTTD? I've received the following error messages after entering the make command :\
10:38<meslinjf>F:\OpenTTD\ogfx-rv>make
10:41<@Alberth>please use a pastebin
10:42<@Alberth>ie paste in https://paste.openttdcoop.org/, and copy the link into the channel
10:42<@Alberth>@paste
10:42<@Alberth>hmm, Dorpsgek needs an extension :)
10:52<@Alberth>meslinjf: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1155123#p1155123 <-- about that I guess?
10:53<meslinjf>Thanks. I've posted my error message on the thread.
10:55<@Alberth>I wonder how to debug that
10:56<@Alberth>does "make -n" say anything?
10:56<@Alberth>(it should dump the commands it would do if you type 'make')
10:58<@Alberth>ha, nice it totally freaks out here :)
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11:02<meslinjf>make -n did quite a lot of things.
11:02<@Alberth>nah, it just prints stuff
11:03<@Alberth>lots of gimp things probably?
11:03<@Alberth>I wonder about the first part
11:03<meslinjf>In that set, yes.
11:03<@Alberth>there is a cc command near the top, which fails
11:05<@Alberth>but what I don't get is that "cc.exe: cc ...." sort of implies that cc.exe prints it cannot find itself :p
11:05<@Alberth>ok, what does cc --version do?
11:05<@Alberth>you get a version number?
11:06<meslinjf>Oh. It might be that all the openttd and coding related programs are on a flash drive. It probably can't find cc since it's on drive C
11:06<meslinjf>oh. It still gives me the version, even if i'm on drive F:
11:07<meslinjf>gcc is version 4.8.1
11:07<@Alberth>the setup guide speaks about 'Adding all programs to the PATH variable' so that should work, wouldn't it?
11:08<@Alberth>cc -D REPO_REVISION=5718 -D NEWGRF_VERSION=5718  -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o ogfx-rv.nml ogfx-rv.pnml
11:08<@Alberth>My make -n says ^
11:08<@Alberth>what happens if run that manually?
11:09<@Alberth>it should produce a ogfx-rv.nml file, by the looks of it
11:10<@Alberth>planetmaker: got your ears on? maybe you can have a look too?
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11:52<meslinjf>I've looked around, still can't find the reason the origin of cc: No such files or directory
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11:56<__ln__>https://narf-archive.com/pix/ee6d2cab8596896d86809d937c2e7f1d146292e2.jpeg (sfw)
11:58<@Alberth>it comes from the cc command?
11:59<@Alberth>I just need to watch part-time, eh?
12:03<meslinjf>eh, sorry. I'm doing many things at once. So don't bother looking at your screen every second. I just started trying to figure out compiling today.
12:04<meslinjf>What do you mean by if it comes from cc command? To make this clear, I'm on windows 7, using the cmd
12:05<meslinjf>So far, every source I've tried compiling ended up giving me the same cc.exe: error: cc: No such files or directory
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12:11<@Alberth>yeah
12:12<@Alberth>to figure where it goes wrong, you need to skip 'make', and execute its commands directly
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12:12<@Alberth>one option is the 'cc' command that make -n produces
12:12<@Alberth>so if you run that, do you get an error?
12:14<meslinjf>So I look into the text make -n produced to find anything related to cc?
12:15<@Alberth>you type "make", you get a weird cc error
12:15<@Alberth>with "make -n" you can see what it is supposed to be doing
12:15<@Alberth>so yeah, I'd hope there is a cc in there
12:16<@Alberth>in addition, you can try to run that command yourself, to verify its crash
12:16<@Alberth>or error, rather
12:16<@Alberth>maybe it gives more information or so
12:20<meslinjf>Ok. Here is what I found among all the text that make -n gave me. It's quite similar from what you posted earlier:
12:20<meslinjf>MinGW/bin/cc.exe cc -D REPO_REVISION=0 -D NEWGRF_VERSION=0 -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -ogfx-rv.nml ogfx-rv.pnml
12:21<meslinjf>cc.exe is located in the bin folder, as it should
12:21<@Alberth>wow, with a "cc" as first argument?
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>possibly someone messed up the cflags?
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12:24<@Alberth>$(_V) $(CC) -D REPO_REVISION=$(NEWGRF_VERSION) -D NEWGRF_VERSION=$(NEWGRF_VERSION) $(CC_USER_FLAGS) $(CC_FLAGS) -o $(NML_FILE) $(MAIN_SRC_FILE) not likely
12:25<@Alberth>CC ?= $(shell which gcc 2>/dev/null) <--- meslinjf what does "which gcc" say?
12:27<meslinjf>I should also find that line in the make -n?
12:27<@Alberth>probably not
12:27<@Alberth>just type it at the command line
12:28<@Alberth>$(shell ....) gets run while doing text/macro expansion
12:29<meslinjf>If I write this in command line, I get: The system cannot find the path specified
12:31<+glx>no gcc ?
12:32<@Alberth>glx: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1155123#p1155123
12:33<meslinjf>I've tested the path registries by running these and everything worked: nmlc --version hg python exit() gcc --version bash exit
12:34<+glx>oh I see, which is an msys command
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>meslinjf: if you're not interested in a proper solution but only a dirty workaround, replace $(CC) with cc
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12:43<meslinjf>I can change it in the makefile document?
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, in the line that Alberth quoted
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12:45<andythenorth>o/
12:48<meslinjf>It's working. I'll let it compile, test it and come back to you.
12:49<andythenorth>compile cat
12:49<andythenorth>probably cats are self-compiling
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>in japan they have cats running train stations
12:57<@Alberth>other cats are just lazy, sleeping in chairs
12:58<andythenorth>Alberth: hi hi
12:58<andythenorth>any comments on new FIRS?
12:58<andythenorth>other than the tickets
12:58<@Alberth>+1
12:59<andythenorth>hopefully I’ve removed a lot of the minor irritations
13:00<@Alberth>it all seemed to work nicely, as far as I can see
13:00<andythenorth>thanks
13:00<@Alberth>new smaller industries like the clay/sand quarry look much better
13:01<andythenorth>agreed
13:01<@Alberth>more similar to a 'normal' sized industry
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13:14<@Terkhen>hello
13:21<@Alberth>hello
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13:24<@Alberth>quak
13:25<frosch123>moin
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13:52<snorre_>My servers is showing up on the serverlist quite sporadically. What coud be the reason?
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17:37<snorre_>I don't get the "advertising to the master server is failing" message. Still my servers dissapear from the list (and reappears after some time).
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18:13<Wolf01>'night
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18:49<drac_boy>something I kinda still recall before if I remember right - wasn't there another openttd channel with in-game chat bot?
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence doesn't make a lot of sense.
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, there are proably several channels that are related to specific servers
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>none of those are "official" openttd channels
19:17<drac_boy>ah heh I see...I still remember coop now :->
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 29 00:00:23 2015