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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-08-31

---Logopened Mon Aug 31 00:00:26 2015
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04:37<Wolf01>hi o/
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10:57<meslinjf>I'm still having trouble compiling the source from ogfx-rv-0.1.0-source.tar.gz available here: and am receiving messages telling me numerous times: cc.exe: error: cc: No such file or directory even though my MinGW is well installed and that cc.exe is in the bin folder. Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do?
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10:59<@planetmaker>meslinjf, that sounds like it is not in the path, though
10:59<meslinjf>I should put the cc.exe directly in the path?
11:00<@planetmaker>in your PATH variable
11:01<@planetmaker>in your environment settings
11:05<meslinjf>The bin folder where the cc.exe is already in the path variable. The gcc --version command works in my windows cmd.
11:11<meslinjf>I've read that "you need a c compiler to compile OpenGFX+ RV set. There's no C code, but it uses C preprocessor." Is this what makes it impossible for me to compile the source?
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11:38<@Alberth>it is in the path last time we discussed this (last Friday?)
11:38<@Alberth>but the CC variable constructs an additional "cc"
11:39<@planetmaker>meslinjf, you could try to call make by explicitly stating where gcc is found:
11:40<@planetmaker>make CC=path/to/gcc
11:44<meslinjf>I entered F:\openTTD\ogfx-rv>make CC=F:\MinGW\bin and I've received \bin\sh: F:MinGWbin: command not found
11:44<meslinjf>Error 127
11:47<@Alberth>try forward slashes, and add the real program: make CC=F:/MinGW/bin/cc.exe
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11:47<@Alberth>(or use double backward slashes, but that's less readable)
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11:49<@Alberth>always such fun, new users picking the most complicated platform for compiling :(
11:51<meslinjf>I'm getting better results with the line you gave me.
11:51<@Alberth>I'd hoped so :)
11:52<meslinjf>But there seems to be some work needed in the source. there seems to be an error in a .pnml file contained in the source folder.
11:53<@Alberth>you are trying to compile unmodified ogfx-rv, or have you made changes already?
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11:53<meslinjf>I've only changed graphic files
11:54<meslinjf>[knmlc ERROR: "src/truck_bulk.pnml", line 124: Unrecognized indentifier 'PROP_ROADVEHS_CARGO_CAPACITY' encountered
11:54<meslinjf>Including from: "<stdin>, line 23
11:54<@Alberth>what nml version do you use?
11:55<@Alberth>nmlc --version
11:56<meslinjf>Compiling gave me a nml file though. So I'm on the right path.
11:56<@Alberth>so the cc command worked
11:57<@Alberth>hmm, line 124 is empty here
11:58<NGC3982>I want to start hosting ttd servers again
11:58<NGC3982>But nobody's playing.
11:58<NGC3982>Do you guys consider this a single player game, primarly?
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11:59<@planetmaker>meslinjf, that does not exist in my source of ogfx-rv
11:59<@Alberth>meslinjf: what version of ogfx-rv do you have? Mine doesn't even have "CAPAC"
12:00<meslinjf>I'm using the 0.1.0 version since I do not need the additional cargoes and it let's me change graphics more easily.
12:01<@planetmaker>meslinjf, that is designed / written for an ancient nml version
12:02<meslinjf>Ah! Then I could get the old version and run it?
12:02<@planetmaker>yes, in principle... try the 0.2 branch
12:02<@planetmaker>maybe a 0.3.x version will work, too, but I doubt
12:03<@planetmaker>meslinjf, on the other hand, the newer versions don't make it more complicated to change graphics...
12:03<@planetmaker>just more graphics :)
12:06<meslinjf>Yes, but many of the graphic files are in gimp (which I'm not confortable with) and some do not appear straight away in the latest source. But I'd rather edit a few files and then play! :)
12:07<@planetmaker>oh, complicated in that sense. yes, can be. I might be guilty :)
12:12<@Alberth>name got removed in r108, 2011-08-19
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12:18<meslinjf>It finally worked! The grf has been created and the new graphics are working properly. Thank you very much guys.
12:19<@Alberth>if you change the grf, please also change the grf id
12:19<@Alberth>to avoid confusion
12:21<@Alberth>and preferably also the other names, etc
12:21<@Alberth>it's such a mess if someone reports a bug against the wrong newgrf
12:22<meslinjf>Will do. It's for my own use since I'm using original graphics, but it's best to do it anyway.
12:23<@Alberth>ok, thank you
12:30<frosch123>hola di hoi
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12:40<Wolf01>i'm exhausted...
12:41<@peter1138>stop holding your arm in the air then
12:42<Wolf01>2 days of playing with lego technic vehicles at the model exposition, after 3 hours is not fun anymore, it is hard work
12:42<Wolf01>we moved around a table about 9kg of candies for the children
12:49<@planetmaker>first world problems ;)
12:56<@Alberth>let the children eat the table first :)
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12:57<TELK>Hi, does anyone know why updating at BaNaNaS does not work?
12:59<@Alberth>most likely because you are doing something wrong
12:59<@Alberth>but the web interface is terrible at reporting errors
13:00<@Alberth>did you try using musa? It is said to be better at indicating errors
13:04<TELK>I don't think "Unhandled Exception" at Manage menu is not my fault.
13:04<TELK>it seems that somethings are wrong in bananas' server
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13:18<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, Rubidium ? ^
13:18<@planetmaker>TELK, where exactly does it occur? when?
13:19<TELK>on Manage menu at bananas
13:19<TELK>impossible to update/edit/upload
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13:20<@planetmaker>I get that only for 'upload new'. Which is bad enough
13:21<@planetmaker>and on 'update' and 'edit' for some entries it seems. But definitely not all which I have access to
13:22<TELK>Do you think it will be fixed in half hour? or I'll go to sleep.
13:23<frosch123>better go to sleep for sur e:)
13:24<TELK>ok, I will come back to tell if it will not be also fixed tomorrow :)
13:24<TELK>See ya
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27391 trunk/src/lang/english_US.txt (2015-08-31 19:45:13 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>english_US - 2 changes by Supercheese
13:55<NGC3982>I notice that there is some kind of checksummy thing before the NewGRF's in the latest Windows release.
13:55<NGC3982>Should i keep it when copying to a linux config?
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13:59<frosch123>NGC3982: the checksum takes priority over the paths, so if you have them, you actually do not need to adjust the paths
13:59<NGC3982>That's nice.
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14:30<TrueBrain>planetmaker: mostly those issues are resolved by using musa
14:34<@Alberth>my suggestion to use that, got dismissed very quickly :)
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14:49<TrueBrain>Alberth: his base assumption that it would mean it is not his fault, is the fault, I am afraid :(
14:49<TrueBrain>only his fault is unhandled, that is our fault :D
14:50<@Alberth>yeah, better error reporting would be nice though, "unhandled exception" is a little ambiguous :p
14:51<frosch123>can you replace it with "please use musa"? :p
15:03<@peter1138>ah itchy foot
15:05<andythenorth>itchy cat
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15:08<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, the suggestion cannot be to not use the website. That error occurs not during upload but just when clicking the button(s)
15:09<@planetmaker>it's not a size issue
15:11*andythenorth refrains from childish comments
15:12<@planetmaker>can musa modify description and availability of already uploaded content? If so, it may be the answer, otherwise it's a real usability issue ;)
15:16<TrueBrain>musa should be able to replace BaNaNaS management completely
15:16<TrueBrain>should would could
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15:19<andythenorth>debate over cargo colour, finally solved :P
15:19<andythenorth>iron ore is the colour of TTD copper :P
15:20<+glx>always rusty ?
15:21*NGC3982 wants to see how many AI's he can cram into a public server.
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15:40<NGC3982>Simply pasting the windows files for AIAI from windows to the linux box was not that simple.
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15:58<TartarusMkII>Oh wow, this is #OpenTTD?
15:59<TartarusMkII>I was here asking for lots of advice and stuff in the spring, and wow I am so happy to see so many people here!
15:59<TartarusMkII>How is everyone, how is the game? Thanks to anyone involved for the work being done!
16:00<Supercheese>Game is still fun, last I checked
16:01<Supercheese>I wast- err, fruitfully spent many hours playing it this week
16:04<TartarusMkII>Yea, I popped into ask some very stupid questions
16:04<frosch123>there were no less people in spring
16:05<frosch123>we have 100 idlers for years
16:05<TartarusMkII>I don't remember nearly as many people, but I'd say growth is a good thing
16:05<TartarusMkII>really? huh
16:05<TartarusMkII>I went on a vacation and took an up to date but vanilla OpenTTD with me, and I finally learned how to play the game fluently in the early years, and I am glad. But I wanna talk to you guys about managing mods. Now that I am home, my main OpenTTD is up to date, but I have lots of mods that either never worked, or I do not know if they are up to date anymoe.
16:06<TartarusMkII>Is there a way to tell in-game if a mod is up to date? And is it a pain to find the files themselves to manually remove mods that don't work? (I have some old crappy city name packs that just don't work)
16:06<frosch123>well, go to content download, click select upgrades and download :p
16:07<frosch123>about townnames: you probably don't know how to activate them :p
16:07<frosch123>they do work, but it may not be as straight forward :p
16:07<frosch123>you first add them in newgrf settings, and then go to game otions and select them from the town names list
16:07<frosch123>then you generate a map
16:08<TartarusMkII>oh no, some of them worked, but some didn't. I am not knocking them, but I mean that I want to clean out the long list of mods that I don't want to use anymore, like if I found a better mod for the same purpose, etc
16:10<TartarusMkII>also I know I have some mods that had to be installed outside of the game, like, that were too complex for the ingame browser or just wasn't offered.
16:11<TartarusMkII>So now I am just sort of confused, unable to remember what in my list works and what doesn't.
16:11<TartarusMkII>I mean, I remember FIRS is a beautiful thing , but... what else.. you know?
16:11<frosch123>start slow :p don't activate more than 5
16:11<frosch123>if you don't know what something is, and it has no description, don't use it
16:12<frosch123>also, don't use things which have the same name
16:12<TartarusMkII>If I may offer a newer player's perspective, my only criticism of the very awesome ingame browser, is that it's difficult for me to tell what a mod IS. What it is classified as. For example, I know there is a difference between terrain graphics and vehicle graphics, but
16:12<TartarusMkII>I feel almost like if I didn't know exactly, its hard to tell that this is a pack of vehicles vs a pack of graphics
16:12<TartarusMkII>Like, it could be explained slightly better in the descriptions, dialogues, etc
16:13<frosch123>well, people have no pr department
16:13<frosch123>they explain it to what they think is their audience
16:13<TartarusMkII>oh of course, I don't really mean the offers themselves
16:13<TartarusMkII>offers? authors*
16:14<TartarusMkII>But nevermind no biggy haha
16:15<TartarusMkII>I do have one legitimate request/suggestion for an actual practical feature. May I put it out in here for criticism before I bother making a proper suggestion?
16:16<frosch123>you can, but don't be disappointed if noone cares
16:16<TartarusMkII>You shine so brightly, Frosch
16:16<frosch123>openttd is very sandboxy, everyone plays it different
16:17<TartarusMkII>Tell me, if no one here cares about the development of an open source game, why exactly are we all idling here? What goes on?
16:18<frosch123>don't worry, it's just that people are often eager to tell how they think ottd is played, but then noone else does like them
16:18<frosch123>about the the people here, i do not know half of them and i am almost constantly here
16:19<frosch123>they are a mystery to me as well :)
16:19<TartarusMkII>Yea, I figure no one plays it the same- which is a good thing
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16:19<TartarusMkII>anyhow, you know how you can make new sub-categories in the transportation windows?
16:19<frosch123>some other 1/6 or so are people i knew in the past, but who left long ago, but never quit their bouncer
16:20<frosch123>you mean the group gui?
16:20<TartarusMkII>like what I usually do is in the beginning, I make a group called industry, then a sub group in that group for like woods->mill by town name, etc
16:20<TartarusMkII>I think so yea, I forget what the windows call themselves
16:22<TartarusMkII>anyhow, what I end up doing (the way I play), is that I make a network of transportation between a few closeby cities with one as the terminus where most stuff meets, or comes in and out of the bundle
16:23<TartarusMkII>so that group will be the terminus, with each thing like mail to each individual cities, busses, goods, etc, will each be their own sub group under it
16:23<TartarusMkII>but once I make another terminus to make long range passenger and mail trade, I have so many groups to scroll through
16:24<TartarusMkII>so my thought is that if these categories could collapse and expand, it would make managing the window a lot easier
16:24<TartarusMkII>but I feel like that is a common 'issue' to run into, so perhaps is there a REASON we don't already have it?
16:24<frosch123>no, just noone did it :)
16:25<TartarusMkII>What do you think, would it be something useful?>
16:25<frosch123>i used groups years ago out of a habbit, then stopped and wondered why i use groups. the only reason i found was autoreplace. so i stopped creating groups, and only created add-hoc groups when i wanted to replace a subset of vehicles
16:26<TartarusMkII>so like, what do you do instead?
16:26<frosch123>with some vehicle sets i also grouped them into "heavy load", ... "fast" etc to replace the engines with certain types later on
16:26<frosch123>but since NUTS that has also been superfluous, since there are engines of each class at the beginning
16:27<frosch123>so, when using NUTS i see no point in groups at all :p
16:27<TartarusMkII>not to say groups are essential to my play style, but if there is ever an issue, maybe a train crash or something stupid, maybe a certain group of vehicles are losing money, it helps me to know which group they are in to see what I tasked them with to tell me what the issue is
16:27<frosch123>it's a train set, which focussed on gameplay rather than some realworld scenario
16:28<frosch123>TartarusMkII: that's what shared orders are for
16:28<TartarusMkII>yea luckily I learned to use those XD
16:28<frosch123>there are also implicit vehicle lists at stations
16:28<TartarusMkII>how so? can you tell me about that?
16:28<frosch123>as said, i used to use groups, but then wondered why i did, and did not find a good reason :p
16:29<TartarusMkII>I like hearing about other people's playstyles simply because it makes me aware of stuff or techniques I had no idea about before XD
16:29<frosch123>in the station window there are small vehicle buttons in the bottom right
16:29<frosch123>which displays all vehicles with that station/depot in their order
16:30<TartarusMkII>oh huh thats interesting
16:30<frosch123>you cannot use that list for autoreplace, but you can use it to send some vehicles to depot to remove them, or clone them to add more
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16:34<TartarusMkII>do you recall someone's set of mods that interact with FIRS that you have to get from their site and not in-game?
16:35<frosch123>i don't thnik so
16:35<frosch123>there are only very few people who do not use the in-game thingie, and they usually do not cooperate with anyone
16:36<frosch123>(which is somewhat also the reason why they do not put it into the in-game thingie)
16:36<frosch123>so, it's rather unlikely that they would make something for firs
16:36<TartarusMkII>okie. I'm in a LoL match but then I'll poke and see whatm ods to collect
16:49<Wolf01> embarcadero released delphi 10 skipping the 9... just to copycat microsoft?
16:49<frosch123>should they have called it X instead? :p
16:50<Wolf01>no, XE9 maybe
16:51<frosch123>anyway, i liked delphi 2
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17:16<Eddi|zuHause>today i got a very concerned e-mail from google that i used my account on a windows machine!
17:23<TartarusMkII>I work in sports Television, and this year they are not calling the Superbowl by roman numerals because as it's the 50th super bowl, the number would just be L
17:23<TartarusMkII>so it's Super Bowl 2015
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17:25<Eddi|zuHause>didn't they already have a very loose interpretation of the rules how to arrange roman numerals?
17:25<+glx>TartarusMkII: hehe L is not impressive enough :)
17:25<TartarusMkII>da lol
17:25<TartarusMkII>and not sure
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>also, isn't the next superbowl in 2016?
17:28<+glx>wiki says XLIX, 50, LI, LII
17:30<TartarusMkII>so other than NUTS and FIRS are there any other singular packs anyone would suggest?
17:31<TartarusMkII>and yes you're right, I just forgot to put it in the next year. What I meant was they changed the format to be of the season instead.
17:31<TartarusMkII>and yea its 50 because its the 50th anivesersary
17:31<@planetmaker>if you use FIRS you'll want a road vehicle and ship set, too
17:31<@planetmaker>e.g. opengfx+rv or egrvts2 and fish2 / squid
17:32<@planetmaker>maybe also heqs
17:35<TartarusMkII>oh right thanks!
17:35<TartarusMkII>anything for aircrat?
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>should give you all aircrud you'll need
17:36<TartarusMkII>thanks so much
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>after all these years, i've still not understood what the target audience of WAS is
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17:38<TartarusMkII>Sorry I feel really bad, I accidentally closed the chat. May I please ask for the names of those mods again? ugh.
17:38<TartarusMkII>also does anyone know where the mod files are kept? I want to delete the mall to wipe them clean
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>TartarusMkII: you can clean everything (config, savegames, downloaded content, etc.) by deleting your personal openttd directory
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>(Documents\Openttd on windows)
18:08<TartarusMkII>thanks a ton Eddi
18:08<TartarusMkII>and back, sorry about the delay
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18:12<TartarusMkII>haha really appreciate it.
18:13<TartarusMkII>I know as Frosch said most people have different play styles and goals, but I'd love to hear more about (vanilla-ish) goals that people have
18:13<TartarusMkII>I noticed that it was neat to finally get far enough through the game to get new RVs to upgrade to, but what would come next?
18:13<TartarusMkII>Connect more cities? what else?
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18:24<TartarusMkII>any preference on symmetric or asymetric distro?
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18:48<TartarusMkII>sorry for so many questions. YETI extended towns and insustries is really big. is it any good?
18:48<TartarusMkII>I think it is meant to interface with FIRS?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>you probably shouldn't mix YETI with FIRS
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>and YETI is monstrous, because it has very detailed animated full zoom graphics
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19:10<TartarusMkII>is YETI's graphics more detailed and not pixely like the original gfx?
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19:12<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure the thread has example pictures
19:19<TartarusMkII>ah right ty
19:21<TartarusMkII>ah yea it's the other type
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 01 00:00:28 2015