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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-09-09

---Logopened Wed Sep 09 00:00:39 2015
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04:31<andythenorth>o/
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07:20<Wolf01>hi o/
07:21<dlhero>hi
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07:25<andythenorth>o/
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07:48*andythenorth hates coding industry animation
07:50*Wolf01 hates steam skins
07:51<@planetmaker>\o
07:54<Wolf01>oh, finally a scrollbar i can use with my fingers on steam
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08:18<dlhero>is there a better way to differentiate btw then entry signal and the one way pbs?
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08:27<andythenorth>dunno what your browser will do this but eh https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7451/clay_pit_bulldozer.mov
08:27<andythenorth>9MB sorry
08:28<dlhero>nice :)
08:31<dlhero>oxi
08:38<Snail>nicely done
08:38<Snail>how about some crane animation? :p
08:43<andythenorth>considered it
08:43<andythenorth>can’t think how to do it without having to animate turning the crane
08:43<andythenorth>not doing that
08:47<@planetmaker>nice, andythenorth
08:51*andythenorth fails to make random start/stop on the animation :P
08:51<andythenorth>never works
08:51<andythenorth>doing something wrong :P
08:54<Snail>I think MB can do it…
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09:03<andythenorth>I do something wrong with handling triggers
09:04<andythenorth>it’s quite baffling tbh :)
09:06<andythenorth>this bulldozer glitches sometimes, because I have a switch jumping to frame 0 to restart the animation
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10:59<andythenorth>eh this animation is a bit sketchy, but I did the crane :)
10:59<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7452/clay_pit_crane.mov
11:05<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> it’s quite baffling tbh :) <-- it can stay baffling, or you can investigate what's actually going on.
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11:08<andythenorth>it would require understanding
11:08<andythenorth>I don’t have understanding
11:08<andythenorth>I see no way to randomly start or stop an animation though
11:09<andythenorth>in fact, it’s probably undesirable anyway
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11:13<@Alberth>oh, looks nice :)
11:14<@planetmaker>sweet, andythenorth :)
11:17<andythenorth>it’s a bit of a party trick
11:18<@Alberth>parties are good
11:18<andythenorth>the 5 year old has just reviewed my work
11:18<andythenorth>he says there should be no gap :(
11:19<andythenorth>or a pipe joining the two parts :P
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>5 year olds are always right
11:19<@planetmaker>are both industry parts one industry?
11:20<andythenorth>yes
11:20<@planetmaker>oh... what do the many buildings add to the pit? :O
11:21<@Alberth>administration and planning :)
11:21<@planetmaker>I would have thought it's a separate cement industry taking sand, making building supplies
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>the buildings used to be on the SW edge of the pit
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>$someone thought that removing them there and putting them elsewhere made the industry easier to place
11:24<andythenorth>it is
11:24<andythenorth>factually
11:25<andythenorth>as best as I can test for a small sample set
11:26<andythenorth>if $someone could suggest a solution to the graphical problems, then I would remove the gap
11:27<@planetmaker>remove the buildings altogether. That part is not needed
11:27<@planetmaker>and placement is easier again
11:27<andythenorth>that is an interesting suggestion
11:28<@Alberth>add building next to it with foundation and no ground?
11:28<@planetmaker>to me it really looked like a separate industry which accepts sand. I was not joking :)
11:28<andythenorth>agreed
11:28<@Alberth>but FIRS has lots of industries that have 2 parts
11:28<andythenorth>usually they are not so weird
11:28<andythenorth>I’ve spent about 2 days redrawing the buildings
11:29<andythenorth>but I’m tempted to just delete them
11:29<@Alberth>add one in the water :p
11:29<@planetmaker>they look nice, yes... but for a sand pit it looks like too many buildings to me
11:29<@planetmaker>a sandpit needs sand and a small operator / billing hut. that's it :D
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, i imagine the buildings have sorting machines in them to separate smaller and larger pebbles
11:43<andythenorth>they’re relatively bigger because the pit is now relatively smaller
11:44<andythenorth>these two industries are ridiculously TMWFTLB now :)
11:44<andythenorth>but eh
11:46<andythenorth>planetmaker: ?? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7453/clay_pit_improved_16.png
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11:56<Eddi|zuHause>the pit shrinks in every iteration?
11:57<andythenorth>yes
11:57*andythenorth has shrunk it further
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: make the pit wider, so the "beach" overlaps with the building
11:58<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7454/clay_pit_improved_17.png
11:58<andythenorth>even smaller ^
11:58<andythenorth>but when is removing ‘removing too much’?
11:58<andythenorth>this is starting to look like a postage stampe
11:58<andythenorth>stamp *
11:58<@planetmaker>I like that size better
11:59<@planetmaker>I still think that the grass at the pit borders could receede more in favour of a slightly bigger pit
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: in that last picture, the buildings should be rotated 90°
11:59<@planetmaker>maybe then the buildings could stand on sand, too
11:59<@planetmaker>and the 90° rotation for the buildings makes sense ^
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>and yes, the sand should go all the way to the buildings
12:01<andythenorth>hang on
12:01<andythenorth>I think the problem is the pit
12:01*andythenorth photoshops
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12:08<andythenorth>? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7455/clay_pit_improved_18.png
12:09<@planetmaker>:D
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't look very helpful :p
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>looks like you had a mud flood :p
12:12<andythenorth>30s
12:13<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7456/clay_pit_improved_19.png
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12:15<andythenorth>either the grass has to go
12:15<andythenorth>or the pit can’t be joined to the processor
12:15<andythenorth>can’t have both at once
12:15*andythenorth thinks maybe the grass is daft
12:16<@planetmaker>it isn't
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, planetmaker's idea was to make the pit (i.e. the water section) bigger, at the cost of some grass, and my idea was to convert the grass into sand on the side where the buildings are attached
12:16<@planetmaker>I like those both ideas joined. But I guess the issue is that the building is attached at several positions, depending on layout?
12:17<andythenorth>but the buildings attach on multiple sides, yes
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>so just have each side with a grass and a sand version, and use the appropriate one based on layout
12:18<andythenorth>nah
12:18<andythenorth>uncanny valley
12:20<andythenorth>industries don’t change graphics per layout
12:20<andythenorth>except grain mill, which changes utterly
12:20<andythenorth>anyway, I think we’ve just re-learnt the definition of bikeshedding :D
12:20<@planetmaker>totally :)
12:21<andythenorth>given that there are multiple industries which have much much bigger problems
12:21<andythenorth>base-set iron ore mine in arctic anyone? o_O
12:21<andythenorth>:P
12:22<@planetmaker>:)
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12:29<andythenorth>anyway, I think the next step will be to eliminate the grass :P
12:29<andythenorth>but how to do that, NFI :)
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12:34<andythenorth>eh, just push the pit walls back right to the edge?
12:37<@Alberth>easier to move a few pixels :p
12:38*andythenorth does that
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13:07<@Alberth>quak
13:07<frosch123>moin
13:10<@Rubidium>moi
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't that basically what we said?
13:22<@planetmaker>ho
13:38<andythenorth>bah
13:38<V453000>andythenorth: grass go, connected
13:38<V453000>good stuff
13:38<andythenorth>those industries can wait until v3
13:38*andythenorth is super bored of them
13:38<andythenorth>it makes piss all difference to gameplay, and you don’t even notice the details when building routes
13:39<andythenorth>I have saved a copy of a file with the walls pushed back, but needs ~hours more work
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27395 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2015-09-09 19:45:14 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>frisian - 14 changes by BAJansen
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14:03<andythenorth>ooops
14:03<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7457/clay_pit_improved_20.png
14:04<andythenorth>bulldozer mining water
14:06<dlhero>quick question
14:06<dlhero>is there something like a farm runway?
14:07<dlhero>you know just like a small airport but smaller. sth like 2*7 or 2*8
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>that somewhat looks actually terrible...
14:09<V453000>:))
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>dlhero: no, you can only change the looks of an airport, not the size of the runway and the paths the planes are moving
14:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that’s the requested change no?
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: more water, less sand
14:10<dlhero>Eddi|zuHause: read some posts about custom airports and stuff. it must be hard to code airports
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: also, less repetitive sand and more colours
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>dlhero: that entirely depends on what level of "custom" you want
14:11<andythenorth>I am unsure what is gained by more water
14:11<andythenorth>it seems opposed to the goal of ‘less water'
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the repetitive sand pattern makes the area look really ugly
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and who said the goal was "less water"?
14:13<andythenorth>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1441720947#1441720947
14:14<andythenorth>also http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1441820394#1441820394
14:14<andythenorth>I thought the water was generally hated
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14:15<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't get that impression
14:15<andythenorth>hmm
14:15<andythenorth>coasts repeat, why shouldn’t the quarry repeat?
14:15*andythenorth wonders
14:16<andythenorth>the screenshot happens to prove that :P
14:16*andythenorth is starting to think that it would be less work to do a proper quarry
14:16<andythenorth>also to split the quarry apart
14:16<andythenorth>it’s hard to make it plausibly a source of limestone and such
14:17<andythenorth>and also sand
14:18<dlhero>Eddi|zuHause: an airport with a shed hangar available from the 30's and for ever, with a simple runway
14:18<Wolf01>http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aGR8v2X_460s_v1.jpg wow every time i see this picture it gets another piece
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>dlhero: well, again, what i said applies. you can change the look of the airport (e.g. take the small or commuter airport as basis), and that is pretty easy actually
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>but you cannot affect the way the planes move, e.g. the number or location of loading bays or the runway lengths
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: different solutions from different centuries
14:24<dlhero>Eddi|zuHause: it's the size of the airport as a whole. 2x8 or 3x8 is what I'd aim for
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>dlhero: you can add fake tiles around it, to change the look, but the planes won't use them
14:26<dlhero>a yeah that can be done
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>dlhero: there is a "fake airport tiles" grf, if you want to take a look
14:26<dlhero>well first I want to take a look on how airplanes work
14:28<dlhero>the ideas was to be able to fit a very nice looking runway between the tiles of a farm
14:28<dlhero>or adjacent to it
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14:40<frosch123>Wolf01: is a canal bridge crossing a river, or a ship lift that unusual?
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>the russians have way weirder ship lifts
14:46<frosch123>i wonder whether the point of the picture is, that a short tunnel may look like a bridge :p
14:50<andythenorth>planetmaker: this reduces the impression of two separate industries? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7458/clay_pit_improved_21.png
14:51<@planetmaker>I still wonder why there's space between :)
14:51<@planetmaker>but yes, it does somehow as the building is not as big as lime kiln or similar
14:52<andythenorth>I have reduced the size of one of the buildings
14:52<@planetmaker>but that building looks much better-sized compared to the pit :)
14:52<andythenorth>those buildings were originally drawn a long time ago, when I drew FIRS buildings too big
14:53<Wolf01>can't you just put some eyecandy stuff like mud paths between the two and let those tiles buildable? just to confuse the user a bit more
14:54<@planetmaker>Wolf01, unfortunately over-buildable industry tiles are not yet there
14:54<@planetmaker>(except farm fields wich cannot be placed manually)
14:56<Wolf01>no, i mean like those overlapping station tiles with the graphic larger than the tile they use, it might glitch out a lot but it could be a nice thing
14:57<andythenorth>stockyard does that
15:05<andythenorth>sensible thing would be a conveyor
15:05<andythenorth>but it would be hard to do it without glitches
15:07<Wolf01>animated suspended buckets
15:08<Wolf01>http://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e8883301a73d99b82e970d-pi something like this
15:12<andythenorth>that would be awesome
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15:13<Taede>catapult :p
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15:38<@planetmaker>seems people don't understand Haikus or whatever that was which makes our 1.5.2 announcement :)
15:41<frosch123>haha, i like it :p
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15:42<frosch123>the rc1 was definitely completely bug free :)
15:43<Wolf01>just because nobody noticed them ;)
15:52<andythenorth>so I’m shipping more or less this for FIRS v2 https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7459/clay_pit_improved_22.png
15:52<andythenorth>the pipe to the de-watering pump needs a bit of work
15:52<andythenorth>the front two layouts look fine, the green one has problems
15:52<andythenorth>but eh
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19:44<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 10 00:00:21 2015