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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-09-11

---Logopened Fri Sep 11 00:00:41 2015
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04:44<planetmaker>it's always amusing again to see those e-mails like "help, I was banned from server XY. I did nothing wrong. Can you help me?"
04:46<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean "again"?
04:46<Eddi|zuHause>did you not get them for a while?
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04:58<planetmaker>we get such e-mail on average every few weeks. Lately they seem to come more often
04:59<planetmaker>and always those people seem incapable to apply some logic and trying to search for the webpage of the server
04:59<planetmaker>and it's not like reddit and btpro and the other major servers have no websites
04:59<V453000>did people get more retarded? :D
05:04<planetmaker>maybe. But probably not
05:05<planetmaker>As Einstein said: there's two things which are infinite: space and stupidity. And he isn't sure about the former ;)
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05:31<Wolf01>hi hi
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08:25<andythenorth>how do I persuade bundles server that latest FIRS release is 2.0.0 not 1.4.4?
08:25<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>rename the branch into default
08:26<andythenorth>thanks
08:27<andythenorth>not sure that’s wise yet
08:27<andythenorth>makes sense though
08:31-!-roidal_ [~roland@62-46-143-87.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
08:32*andythenorth attempts to musa
08:32<planetmaker>andythenorth, LATEST is always the latest build. Literally as to what was pushed last
08:32<planetmaker>andythenorth, if that didn't work it might be a bug there somewhere
08:33<andythenorth>planetmaker: got time to investigate?
08:33<andythenorth>or it could wait
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i don't see how that could work, as you could push multiple branches at the same time
08:33<planetmaker>I'll have a look now
08:34<andythenorth>planetmaker: there is a 2.0.0-alpha tag on the snakebite branch
08:34<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes, you could. Then it might be undeterministic
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i find it way more likely that it just pulls the default branch and makes whatever comes out of there
08:34<planetmaker>but I know that I didn't put there any fancy logic or so. Just the newest tagged build is made 'LATEST'
08:35<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, and no, I search for tags and those are built - whatever branch they are in
08:35<planetmaker>the branch has no meaning for taged builds
08:35<planetmaker>or rather no influence
08:36<andythenorth>planetmaker: does it read the tag name in any way?
08:36<planetmaker>as to the push builds: it builds the head of each branch being pushed. I think I changed it so that not only default branch works
08:36<andythenorth>i.e. does it need x.y.z format?
08:36<planetmaker>how the tag looks like *should* not matter
08:36<andythenorth>bundles certainly builds on push correctly
08:37<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/
08:37<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/changelog.txt is correct
08:38<planetmaker>hm, so it didn't build 2.0.0?
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08:38<andythenorth>jenkins reported no changs
08:38<andythenorth>no changes *
08:39<planetmaker>oh, it tried. but it failed to build
08:39<planetmaker>no changes... strange
08:39<planetmaker>18:52:23 abort: unknown revision '2.0.0'!
08:39*andythenorth is afk for 10 mins
08:39<planetmaker>so something went wrong :)
08:39<andythenorth>but the history is all there to see :)
08:39<andythenorth>biab
08:40*planetmaker has an idea
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08:43*planetmaker discards the idea
08:43*Hiddenfunstuff dumpsterdives the idea
08:43*planetmaker revisits the idea :P
08:44<planetmaker>update failed... not jumping branches, it seems
08:44<planetmaker>which is a failure in my build script
08:51<planetmaker>hm...
08:55<andythenorth>it jumps fine for regular commits :)
08:55*andythenorth doesn’t know how hg tags are implemented, but aren’t they just pointers to a hash?
08:55<planetmaker>andythenorth, FYI: it seems that it's a problem with the (ancient) mercurial version on the server. It fails to update to tags with hyphen (-). The same thing works locally with my more modern mercurial
08:56<planetmaker>they are
08:56<andythenorth>oh it’s that mercurial bug
08:56<andythenorth>I’m sure you found that before :)
08:56<planetmaker>I *think* so
08:56<planetmaker>well, the 2.2.2 on the server is rather ancient. I don't use that for a very long time :D
08:57<planetmaker>current is 3.5.1. And there's one minor version bump every 3 months. Go figure how old it is :D
08:57<planetmaker>ok, June 2012
08:57<dlhero>that's old for software these days
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>that's "only" 3 years :p
08:58<planetmaker>andythenorth, I guess I'll update mercurial on jenkins server soonish to fix this issue
08:58<planetmaker>dlhero, for a server that's not necessarily 'old'
08:58<planetmaker>it's what shipped with the distro which runs it. But that might need updating somewhen, too :P
08:59<planetmaker>debian 7.8...
08:59<andythenorth>never update servers :P
08:59<andythenorth>standing rule
08:59<planetmaker>:) Only when needed
08:59<andythenorth>wait for it to die, then migrate all services to a new one
08:59<planetmaker>it's enough work that way
08:59<planetmaker>:)
09:00<planetmaker>it's VMs
09:00<planetmaker>so... they hopefully never die :P
09:00<planetmaker>or would work the same on new machine ;)
09:00<dlhero>planetmaker: I dont' disagree but I consider git/hg crucial services
09:00<dlhero>prefer to have the latest versions/fixes blabla
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>"doesn't work with - in the name" is as good as "dead"
09:01<dlhero>occasionally skimming through the Changlog as well
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>really, you should have a regular update schedule. the rarer an update gets, the more likely it won't work
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>(remember to have backups)
09:03<planetmaker>we do
09:04<andythenorth>next problem: how do I musa? :P
09:04<andythenorth>I wrote an ini file
09:04<andythenorth>but how do I upload the tar?
09:04<andythenorth>the forum thread says only grfs
09:06<planetmaker>musa asks you for all files (grf, doc, changelog, license). It doesn't handle a complete tar
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>who thought that was a good idea?
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09:16<andythenorth>“error: you are not listed as author for this content"
09:17<andythenorth>I have ‘andythenorth’ in the .ini file
09:17<andythenorth>I don’t know who the authors are for FIRS
09:17<planetmaker>andythenorth, you need to be listed as author in bananas
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>honestly, i never actually used musa, but when i last looked at it, it seemed somewhat poorly documented and half-assed. like a proof of concept prototype that somebody said "ah well, just ship it"
09:18<andythenorth>there’s no way to know who the authors are in bananas…
09:18<andythenorth>I don’t have mySQL access
09:18<planetmaker>i.e. the user who uploads FIRS? was it you or openttdcoop?
09:18<andythenorth>openttdcoop
09:18<planetmaker>then that's the user you need to list there, too
09:18<andythenorth>ah ok
09:18<planetmaker>same credentials. You can only use it to add additional ones
09:18<planetmaker>and then next time you can upload as andy
09:19<andythenorth>interesting
09:19<andythenorth>license.txt is unpackageable
09:20<planetmaker>yes, unless you select 'custom'. But as you use a default license, no need. They're stored in bananas
09:20<andythenorth>ok
09:20<andythenorth>eh, it’s gone and done
09:20<andythenorth>2.0.0-alpha on bananaramas
09:21<planetmaker>:)
09:21<andythenorth>is bananas web UI considered dead?
09:21<andythenorth>or just limping?
09:22<planetmaker>limping. And imho in need of improvement :)
09:22<planetmaker>i.e. adding new additional authors only works via musa. As does uploading big content
09:22<planetmaker>but it should return to allowing 'normal' uploads and edits to the entry
09:23<andythenorth>has anyone read the logs?
09:23<planetmaker>And tbh, it is being looked into... but it's tricky as the logs are rather inconclusive as to the reasons of the errors
09:23<andythenorth>‘exception’ is not very detailed :)
09:23<planetmaker>yeah. Exactly
09:24<planetmaker>but the logs are not really more detailed from what I understood (haven#t looked myself). Ancient software sucks sometimes ;)
09:24<planetmaker>gotta leave for a bit
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>i'm going back to my hanseatic republic of germany
09:33*andythenorth ships FIRS
09:33<andythenorth>done and done
09:33<andythenorth>until the bug reports arrive :P
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11:14<andythenorth>so eh
11:14<andythenorth>if I’ve released an alpha
11:14<andythenorth>e.g. 2.0.0-alpha
11:15<andythenorth>and then I release a trivial bug fix :P
11:15<andythenorth>what version is that o_O
11:16<@Alberth>2.0.0-alpha-1 ? :)
11:16<andythenorth>ok
11:17<@Alberth>2.0.1-alpha is also an option perhaps
11:18<andythenorth>nah, that implies the 2.0.0 release happened :)
11:18<andythenorth>if it was RC I would have done RC1, RC2 etc
11:18<andythenorth>but I didn’t think about more alphas :P
11:18<@Alberth>alpha2 ;)
11:18<@Alberth>or make it beta :p
11:19<@Alberth>gamma, delta, epsilon ...
11:20<planetmaker>2.0.0-beta?
11:20<planetmaker>ah, I'm slow
11:21<@Alberth>lazy friday afternoon :)
11:21<planetmaker>not really, preparing food for tomorrow's picknick :D
11:21<@Alberth>sounds great already :)
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11:25*Sylf is still waiting for version omega
11:26*andythenorth considers scripting the musa upload :P
11:27<andythenorth>over-engineering, probably :P
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11:27<@Alberth>andythenorth: copy-paste the BB one in the makefile?
11:28<andythenorth>is there ‘make release’ or so
11:28*andythenorth will look later :)
11:30<planetmaker>andythenorth, scripting the musa upload is not really difficult; I actually considered it for devzone... wonder whether it's worthwhile or whether it results in much crap being uploaded :P
11:30<andythenorth>mostly I’d just template the tag :P
11:30<andythenorth>the rest is fine
11:30<planetmaker>how can you template a tag?
11:30<planetmaker>or what do you mean with that?
11:30<andythenorth>text substituion in the .ini file
11:31<andythenorth>pass the tag as an arg, or read it from hg or so
11:31<andythenorth>I only release occasionally, more work to script and document than do it manually :P
11:34<planetmaker>how's that different than what the Makefile and CF do?
11:34<planetmaker>the Makefile writes the version to the grf. And the CF reads the tag information and publishes accordingly as well
11:34<andythenorth>I would likely do it with the Makefile
11:35<andythenorth>or is that unwise?
11:35<planetmaker>the tag can be read from the info. And the commit hook actually detects them being present and triggers the builds accordingly
11:35<planetmaker>but do what?
11:35<andythenorth>edit the .ini file, run the musa command
11:35<andythenorth>I dunno, seem over-engineered tbh
11:35<planetmaker>oh, you mean editing musa.ini?
11:35<andythenorth>yes
11:36<planetmaker>there's something like that somewhere... I forgot which repo. Frosch made that :P busybee?
11:36<andythenorth>yes
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11:37<planetmaker>actually I've been thinking of making it a .devzone configuration: automatic upload using musa
11:37<planetmaker>I guess you would be a customer to that?
11:37<andythenorth>yes
11:37<planetmaker>only for releases, of course
11:37<andythenorth>push tag, everything happens automatically
11:37<planetmaker>i.e.tags
11:37<planetmaker>yup
11:37<andythenorth>it’s all on the coop account anyway
11:37<andythenorth>(my grfs)
11:38<planetmaker>well, one would probably need to upload the first iteration manually in order to allow updates by the openttdcoop account. But that's done for most of your grfs anyway
11:38<andythenorth>yes
11:38<planetmaker>well, I shall have a look
11:39<andythenorth>:)
11:46<@Alberth>next step, automagic sprite creator :)
11:46<planetmaker>andythenorth, what's the bug which alluke tries to report? (FIRS thread)
11:47<planetmaker>Alberth, ask Zeph. He has something like that... procedural sprite generator ;)
11:47<planetmaker>iirc for houses, maybe for other stuff, too
11:47<andythenorth>ha he has a pathological number of scrap yars
11:47<andythenorth>yards *
11:48<planetmaker>happens in a run-down economy :P
11:48<andythenorth>dunno why that is
11:48<planetmaker>and tbh, from the screenies I can't tell whether those are user-placed
11:48<andythenorth>but that’s what betas are for
11:48<andythenorth>ask him :)
11:48<planetmaker>nah. I'm invited for dinner now :P
11:49<planetmaker>hm.... well, ok. Just because it's fun :)
11:52<andythenorth>he hasn’t specified which economy?
11:52<@Alberth>yeah, but that's Zeph himself :p
11:53<@Alberth>looks temperate-ish
11:53<andythenorth>tells nothing :)
11:53<@Alberth>oh, firs economies
11:53<andythenorth>:)
11:53<@Alberth>random guess, default?
11:54<andythenorth>probly
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12:01<@Alberth>hmm, perhaps very early or so?
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12:07<@Alberth>temperate basic 1900 gives me a town with 3 scrap yards
12:07<andythenorth>interesting
12:07<andythenorth>might just be the value of the probability property
12:09<@Alberth>sounds likely
12:13<@Alberth>don't get more than 3 though
12:14<@Alberth>I wonder whether he plays with some patched version, his filenames "18.36.03" looks like a real-time clock
12:15<@Alberth>hmm, maybe just the time stamp of the screenshot
12:16<andythenorth>I can’t replicate
12:16<andythenorth>I tried industries ‘high’ and towns ‘very low'
12:16<andythenorth>on Temperate Basic
12:17<@Alberth>yeah, not in the degree that he shows
12:29<andythenorth>I can’t replicate the pink either :P
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12:50<@Alberth>me neither
12:52<@Alberth>the only explanation is that he didn't update the newgrf settings before generating a new map, imho
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13:21<Valle>Good evening. Is there anyone using the JGR Patchpack 0.4.1 in multiplayer in here?
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13:28<@Alberth>you may also want to try #tycoon?
13:28<@Alberth>many users here don't actually play the game :)
13:32<Valle>Roger, going to try that channel. Having everyone in here play while logged into the chat would be a bit mad. ;-)
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14:14<andythenorth>quak
14:15<andythenorth>this http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1156157#p1156157
14:15<andythenorth>happens for me sometimes
14:16<andythenorth>I ignore it because I assume it’s due to me changing grfs underneath a running OpenTTD
14:19<frosch123>hmm, there is no firs.nml on bunldes
14:21<frosch123>321 changesets, 13 files updated :p
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14:35<frosch123>andythenorth: did you release the beta on the same day as the broken alpha?
14:35<andythenorth>I released -alpha then -alpha-1
14:35<andythenorth>grf name same?
14:35<frosch123>newgrf version is "number of days since 2000", so only changes once per day
14:36<frosch123>if the broken and fixed are committed on the same date, their version numbers will be equal
14:36<frosch123>and ottd cannot tell which is newer
14:36<andythenorth>yup
14:36<andythenorth>ok
14:41<andythenorth>@seen alluke
14:41<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: alluke was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <alluke> theres the report
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15:26<andythenorth>hmm
15:26<andythenorth>now what? :P
15:27<Xaroth|Work>watch a random youtube vid, then, once it's done, click one of the suggested videos from the list
15:27<Xaroth|Work>see how long you last until you get to the really weird stuff
15:28<frosch123>or try the reverse
15:28<frosch123>start at "i like trains", and try to get somewhere sane
15:29<andythenorth>I did the YT already
15:29<andythenorth>as much as I can be arsed
15:29<andythenorth>daily goal achieved :P
15:29<Xaroth|Work>frosch123: i usually try that after i found the weird stuff
15:30<Wolf01>andythenorth, i have another strange vehicle for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombard_Steam_Log_Hauler
15:32<andythenorth>yup
15:32<andythenorth>was going to include those in HEQS
15:32<andythenorth>but eh, didn’t happen :)
15:32<andythenorth>needs roadtypes :P
15:33<Wolf01>heh
15:35<andythenorth>they are pretty cool
15:35<andythenorth>I have photos of them with long long trains
15:39<andythenorth>eh, this is mislabelled, it’s a bulldozer, not a lombard
15:39<andythenorth>https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.windowsonmaine.org/download.aspx%253Ffile%253D/objects/1-184.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.windowsonmaine.org/fullrecord.aspx?objectId%3D1-184&h=826&w=1000&tbnid=AI68-sBYUDctGM:&docid=UxgeSLgD6zAfYM&ei=eS3zVZyeKYff7AbmjLLIBQ&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CCoQMygKMApqFQoTCNy-l8Xd78cCFYcv2wodZoYMWQ
15:39<andythenorth>impressive though
15:45<andythenorth>oh Steam
15:45<andythenorth>auto-updating 1.3GB
15:45<andythenorth>what larks
15:46<andythenorth>in the old days, I could just play the game
15:46<Wolf01>eh
15:46<andythenorth>now…Steam
15:46<andythenorth>‘the game’ = Euro Truck Simulator :P
15:46<Wolf01>but it's for your good
15:46<andythenorth>:P
15:47<andythenorth>their UI sucks
15:47<Wolf01>i don't know if continue to play with train fever or just leave it there waiting for another update which makes rail crossings possible
15:48*andythenorth might play OpenTTD
15:49<Wolf01>i would play ottd too, but i don't want to set a good combination of grfs.. it takes hours
15:50<andythenorth>is a problem
15:50<andythenorth>shareable preset?
15:51<andythenorth>don’t use grfs?
15:51<Wolf01>yes, i always forget to put in something, like some weird station set or the waypoints or the trams...
15:51<andythenorth>FIRS, Iron Horse, Termite, Squid, AV9, Road Hog, TAI, OpenGFX+ Airports
15:51<andythenorth>done
15:51<andythenorth>eh, forgot CHIPS
15:52<Wolf01>see
15:52<ST2>and to mention: FIRS 2.0.0 alpha1
15:52<ST2>xD
15:52<andythenorth>I should just put them all in andythenorth.grf
15:52<andythenorth>and pikka can make pikka.grf
15:52<andythenorth>choose an economy, all industries, cargos and vehicles match
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16:15<Supercheese>one grf to rule them all
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16:28<alluke>andu i heard you've been looking for me?
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16:45<andythenorth>alluke: which ottd version is that FIRS screenshot from?
16:49<alluke>1.5.2
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16:51<andythenorth>which FIRS economy? o_O
16:52<andythenorth>I can’t replicate it
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16:52<alluke>full
16:53<alluke>i noticed that i had set amount of cities to 3
16:53<alluke>that might have triggered it
16:55<Sylf>3 cities on the whole map?
16:55<alluke>yeah xD
16:55<Sylf>how big is the map?
16:55<alluke>1024x1024
16:56<andythenorth>3
16:56*andythenorth tests
16:58<andythenorth>replicated
16:58<andythenorth>yeah, I have nothing for that
17:02<andythenorth>bed time
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18:01<Eddi|zuHause>is anyone ever annoyed that you cannot drive away a fly from the screen with your mouse?
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 12 00:00:43 2015