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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-09-20

---Logopened Sun Sep 20 00:00:54 2015
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02:29<ryouma>i am using openttd on debian jessie. the fonts are too small for me and are not readable. i tried changing to large_size = 22 in the config file. where does one set the font size?
02:29<ryouma>note: if there is a gui config, the font is too small to change size there. i looked in the man page but there was nothing about commadn line options.
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03:20<andythenorth>o/
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03:39<@Alberth>hihi
03:40<andythenorth>moin
03:44<planetmaker>moin moin
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03:48<Pikka>o\
03:48<Taede>ello
03:52<andythenorth>is all here
03:52<Pikka>who's all there?
03:54<andythenorth>octonauts
03:54<Pikka>sounds plausible
03:54<andythenorth>sea dragons episode, again
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04:10<andythenorth>4-8-2 Mountain
04:10<andythenorth>just what I needed
04:12<@Alberth>:)
04:16*andythenorth isn’t to blame for this newgrf
04:16<andythenorth>how relaxing
04:19*andythenorth bbl
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05:03<fonsinchen>andythenorth: The demand calculations are not a feature by themselves but a necessary precondition for Cargodist.
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05:38<Wolf01>moin
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06:03<@Alberth>o/
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06:58<@Alberth>o/
07:01<frosch123>lo
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08:28<_dp_>Hi! Is there any way to stop new vehicles introduction without newgrfs?
08:28<_dp_>Except for starting in 2050
08:30<_dp_>Any way that doesn't involve patching client is fine with me
08:31<frosch123>you can start in year 1
08:31<frosch123>that gives about 1850 years without new vehicles
08:31<frosch123>other than that, i don't think so :)
08:33<@Rubidium>set restart_game_year to starting_year + 1, and starting year to a year where no vehicles are introduced
08:34<_dp_>Rubidium, but that would restart server and reset game every year, right?
08:34<@Rubidium>e.g. 1940
08:34<frosch123>Alberth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwrebu48w?/pwrebu48w <- add a script to create/update language deifitions from ottd svn
08:36<@Rubidium>_dp_: but that wasn't one of your preconditions
08:37<@Alberth>frosch123: line 64 creates a list of list, by the looks of it
08:37<@Alberth>oh, no it doesn't, it just makes an additional copy
08:37<frosch123>i am not sure how to force conversion from iterateable to list
08:38<@Alberth>either remove the "[" and "]", or the "list(" and ")"
08:38<_dp_>programmers... xD anyway, that's not what I want :P
08:38<@Alberth>either with [] or with list()
08:38<frosch123>_dp_: pausing the game and never unpausing also works :)
08:38<frosch123>ok, removed the list(), kept the []
08:40<_dp_>frosch123, yeye, also closing openttd and starting some other game ;)
08:40<_dp_>without vehicles...
08:41<@Alberth>wondering whether open(... "w") should not be "wt", but not sure
08:42<@Alberth>below line 93, you could add a "assert False # Unknown option encountered" below the 'if' to catch weird options
08:42<_dp_>joking aside, if I make patch that allows to control vehicle introduction for each company separately with GS, does it have any chances to be included?)
08:42<@Alberth>line 96 "Invalid number of parameters" ?
08:44<@Alberth>line 101 check if not os.path.isdir(inputdir) if not os.path.isdir(outputdir) ?
08:44<frosch123>_dp_: that sounds very overspecific, so unlikely
08:44<@Alberth>116 drop the [ and ]
08:46<@Alberth>inputlangs.keys() is an iterable, change to set(inputlangs.keys())
08:47<_dp_>overspecific? It's obviously not just for solving problem in question, but will also allow to do some interesting game modes
08:48<_dp_>that connect vehicle introduction with some company-specific thing like performance or cv
08:49<Flygon__>I would love to see a GRF range enabling games from staring 1AD
08:49<Flygon__>But
08:49-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
08:50<Flygon>That'd also mean a lot of other game mechanics being fiddled with too xP
08:50<Flygon>eg. industries, city growth
08:50<@Alberth>cities? what's that?
08:50<@Rubidium>game scripts are started quite late, well after the first determination of which vehicles to have at the begin of the game. Likewise, there is no guaranteed callback that "acknowledges" that the vehicle may be introduced
08:50<frosch123>_dp_: yes, but you can only reduce the intro date further compared to what the grf offers, and you cannot detect what availabilty-dependencies there are in the grf
08:50<frosch123>_dp_: there are other ideas about gs-controlled technology level
08:51<@Rubidium>when a company is started, the available vehicles are determined at client side, so you don't have control over it from a GS
08:52<@Rubidium>which means you need to make quite some architectural changes before it's viable
08:52<@peter1138>Start in 4000BC, like in Civilization.
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08:53<@Alberth>frosch123: "t" mode is default, so that's fine
08:54<@Alberth>otherwise looking fine
08:55<frosch123>_dp_: "overspecific" as in "likely only works with default vehicle"
08:57<_dp_>Well, I kinda know that it's not a very easy path to do, and client-side dates will have to be reworked for sure, but that's fine as long as it is doable.
08:57<_dp_>But interoperability with newgrfs is a good point
09:00<@Alberth>it's often a breaking point for many innovations
09:01<Pikka>hmm
09:01<@Alberth>or at least, it makes adding innovations a lot more complicated
09:01<Pikka>train fever really is a masterclass in how not to do things
09:01<@Alberth>on the other hand, newgrfs do keep the game alive for a large part
09:02<_dp_>Though it depends on GS implementation whether it will work with specific grf set or not, and it's more like a general GS flaw
09:02<@Alberth>Pikka: so I am not missing much by not playing it? :)
09:02<_dp_>like there is no citybuilder GS that makes sense with any industry set possible
09:02<Pikka>you're definitely missing something :)
09:03<@Alberth>hmm, all the valuable lessons how not to do things, eh?
09:04<Pikka>yes
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>for everything that TF does well, it does something else either terribly or annoying...
09:04<Pikka>I'm still looking for the things it does well
09:04<_dp_>Problem with newgrfs is than like half of players don't know how to get use them)
09:04<@Alberth>Pikka: pictures!
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>it looks pretty ;=)
09:05<_dp_>server with grfs is bound to have much less players that one without no matter how stupid game mode latter will run
09:05<@Alberth>different audience
09:06<@Alberth>sort of casual openttd gamers, if you can even speak of such
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>maybe joining a server with newgrfs shouldn't take more clicks than joining a server without newgrfs
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>(provided the newgrfs are on bananas)
09:07<_dp_>in that sense would be nice if newgrfs were downloaded automatically when you join servers, but I guess that's not possible for other reasons :(
09:07<Pikka>they are/can be, but I think you still need an extra click in there
09:08<Pikka>otherwise the complaints... "why do I have to download 200mb every time I want to join a random server???"
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's even 2 or 3 clicks
09:08<_dp_>yeah, and not quite obvious where to click and why
09:09<_dp_>it feels like many people don't even understand that yellow bulb near server means they CAN join it
09:09<@Alberth>mostly to get explicit permission for downloading
09:11<frosch123>isn't the problem rather that servers can barely provide information to the server list, except their name?
09:11<frosch123>how do people choose a server anyway?
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>aren't even the yellow servers sorted below the green servers?
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>80% of the players play on 20% of the servers anyway
09:16<_dp_>some people prefer servers that already have some players on it, that's for sure
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09:36<_dp_>frosch123, you mentioned other ideas about gs-controlled technology level, what are they?
09:37<frosch123>do you know zuu's experimental branch?
09:37<_dp_>no
09:37<frosch123>zuu made some experimental branch for direct communication between newgrf industries and gs
09:38<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/GS-NewGRF_Communication_via_JSON <- this is a list of ideas how to extend based on zuu's stuff
09:39<_dp_>but that still require newgrf to do anything?
09:39<frosch123>independent of that, there is an idea of a "technology level" to replace the current "date"
09:39<frosch123>which somewhat also tries to solve the reasoning of the "daylength" patches
09:40<frosch123>_dp_: for the current cases, yes
09:40<frosch123>but i don't think there is any in-depth concept about the technology level
09:40<frosch123>it's just pops up every 3 months in irc
09:41<frosch123>basically everytime someone on the forums wants daylength :p
09:46<_dp_>What I'm trying to do is to setup some game mode that allows fair scoring
09:47<_dp_>I see two ways of doing that. 1) all players start simultaneously 2) game experience doesn't depend on starting date
09:47<_dp_>1 currently doesn't seem viable except for special event
09:48<_dp_>*events
09:48<_dp_>and 2 usually means starting in 2050
09:48<_dp_>without grfs at least
09:50<_dp_>zuu's branch doesn't seem to bring anything in that regard too as not only in requires newgrf but focuses on grf-gs communication, not extending of possibilities
09:51<frosch123>isn't 2 solved by just giving people a bigger loan at start?
09:52<@Alberth>starting in 2050 is a change in game experience in itself
09:52<_dp_>no, even if you give enormous loan that won't balance the vehicle improvement
09:53<_dp_>also with funding enabled there is no such thing as "too big" loan))
09:54<frosch123>well, i think i do not understand what you mean with "fair scoring" then
09:54<_dp_>mb game experience is not a good word to call it, but basically what I mean that people starting later don't receive any advantages
09:55<_dp_>coz if they do it becomes "wait as long as possible then start"
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09:56<frosch123>interesting, i assumed people starting later were at an disadvantage :p
09:57<_dp_>I mean any scoring, or highscores or whateven for goal servers. Like who is fastest to reach 10M CV and so on
09:58<_dp_>they mb be at disadvantage in particular game but for any cross-game score it is an advantage if they manage to finish
09:59<frosch123>aren't all the good routes takes when people join late?
09:59<frosch123>vehicles are more expensive and so on
10:00<_dp_>inflation can be disabled
10:02<_dp_>and good routes.. it depends on settings, it may be that there is no place for two superb player on a map, but for average players can be enough
10:04<_dp_>at least vehicles introduction is the only noticable obstacle for that right now
10:12<_dp_>And there are a lots of ways to improve situation. Easies way is configurable end year instead of fixed 2050 (especially if it won't show stupid perf score table). It even seems to be there at some point but was removed :(
10:13<_dp_>And mysterious "technology level" idk how can that help except for freezing it
10:14<_dp_>Unless it is different for every company which basically breaks down to same per-company vehicle introduction
10:15<_dp_>*breaks up ... too many ttd configuring xD
10:16<@Alberth>end year can be easily done with a GS
10:19<_dp_>rly, is there just a end game setting or you mean resetting date manually each year?
10:24<_dp_>Not know much about GS honestly, but I look in commands.cpp and settings*.ini and there doesn't seem to be either command or setting for that :(
10:25<@Alberth>it can pause the game
10:26<@Alberth>http://nogo.openttd.org/api/ is what you should read
10:27<_dp_>it's not pause I'm looking for but forever-2050 behaviour
10:28<_dp_>and afaik there is no way for GS to influence clients without either commands or game settings so if smth is not there it is not possible
10:36<@Alberth>what's the point? if you play after the last vehicle, and have "vehicles never expire" turned on, all years are the same
10:37<_dp_>last vehicle is lev4 which is the only 2050-or-so-start option I'm talking about
10:38<_dp_>It's playable but I'd like to see more options
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10:41<_dp_>hm, actually, instead of end year, would be better to have option that just completely disables new vehicle introduction
10:41<_dp_>It can be in form "no vehicles after certain year"
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: you can start in 2050 with "vehicles never expire", then you have all vehicles available, not just the last one
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: for anything more specific, you really should use a NewGRF
10:45<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, As I said having all vehicles is fine but I'd like to see more options
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>and i said, for more options, there are NewGRFs
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>and "I want to do what NewGRFs do, just without NewGRFs" is never going to happen
10:50<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, and so there are 3 choices "no cross-game scoring", "almost no players on servers", "2050 maglev".
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>i really don't understand the problem you're having...
10:51<_dp_>did you ever play goal servers?
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>no.
10:55<_dp_>then it's kinda understandable why you don't :P
10:56<_dp_>basically there is only good way to compare your performance with others - overall highscores on the community website
10:56<_dp_>and it's quite hard to ensure that those scores make any sense
10:57<_dp_>like for at least half of btpro servers they don't xD
11:03<@Alberth>numbers have to make sense? :o
11:03<@Alberth>in my experience people believe any number
11:04<Flygon>OpenTTD is barely a scoring game anymore
11:04<Flygon>By this point, it's an open world sandpit where people throw hammers at it until it makes something pretty
11:05<Flygon>Every user in this channel is a Hammer Bro brah
11:05<Flygon>EXCEPT Born_Acorn
11:05<Flygon>He's an Acorn
11:05<Flygon>Born and Bred
11:05<Flygon>And LadyHawk is either definitely a Hawk or inspired by a movie that I've been meaning to see
11:06<@Alberth>I wrote BB, a GS that suggests small random transport goals. It tracks progress, and when done, suggests a new goal. People all by themselves believe they should do all goals, even if they don't get a reward or a punishment
11:06<@Alberth>or it's a real Lady :p
11:07<Flygon>iunno
11:07<Flygon>Ever seen a LadyHawk?
11:07<Flygon>They're pretty
11:07<Flygon>But
11:07<Flygon>They'll tear your throat out
11:07<Flygon>Because shit, she's a Hawk, not a human
11:08<@Alberth>I try not to get that close to hawks, not matter its gender :)
11:08<Flygon>BUT
11:08<Flygon>Would you get close to an Emu?
11:10<_dp_>As if it ever was a scoring game)
11:11<_dp_>But it's the only way of playing ottd I like. I don't play in singleplayer and multiplayer is just as boring imo without any scoring that allows you to compare your performance to others and track you progress
11:12<Flygon>For me...
11:12<Flygon>And this's half the reason I tend to do real world scenarios
11:12<Flygon>It's because I like to see what a fantasy version of a real network'd be
11:12<Flygon>Half the reason I'd love infrastructure sharing... to make MP of this sorta thing practical
11:13<Flygon>Unfortunately, the other problems occour...
11:13<Flygon>Such as needing a daylength patch to prevent managing giant networks from being a problem...
11:13<Flygon>That, and
11:13<Flygon>My friends and I would need Fibre or good HFC lines to ensure non-desyncing on 2048*2048 gaes
11:14<Flygon>Bloody Cookie notifications :D
11:14<Flygon>Why can't they just detect that I'm Aussie and don't give a crap :D
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11:26<_dp_>Didn't try to play openttd for sake of building network for a long time...
11:27<_dp_>For me it's more like a did-it-once-lost-interest-after type of thing, better suited for singleplayer
11:27<_dp_>same goes for minecraft or factorio imo
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11:30<andythenorth>@seen danmack
11:30<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 38 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: * DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
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11:46<_dp_>Still... goal servers are huge part of openttd MP, it's sad that openttd itself is still so poorly suited for that :(
11:46<andythenorth>eh, this is all wrong http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/translations.html
11:46*andythenorth has work that is never done
11:47<andythenorth>_dp_ poorly suited? o_O
11:48<_dp_>andythenorth, I guess you missed cross-game scores discussion before
11:48<_dp_>and there are lots of other things...
11:59<andythenorth>scenarios with baked-in settings + online high score system
12:00<andythenorth>generate a checksum or something on the settings to reduce the number of people who can trivially screw with the scores
12:00<andythenorth>oh you want to do it with servers
12:00<andythenorth>nvm
12:04<_dp_>yeah, I'm trying to configure server, I don't mind doing GS or patching server but I want it to be compatible with vanila clients and not use newgrfs
12:05<_dp_>I'm even willing to do whatever patch to openttd itself that would allow me to do what I want, be it end year, or vehicle introduction disabling (personally I think both are needed)
12:06<_dp_>Or per-company introduction dates which will also allow to do new interesting game modes, not possible now even with newgrfs
12:06<_dp_>As long as it has chances to be included in the game
12:07<andythenorth>you won’t get vehicle modification without newgrfs
12:07<andythenorth>in the official build
12:09<_dp_>none of those are vehicle modification technically
12:10<andythenorth>afaik, GS can’t modify vehicles currently
12:11<andythenorth>although maybe it should be able to
12:11<andythenorth>ottd modifies intro date via randomisation factor, so might be a case for GS to be able to modify it
12:11<andythenorth>maybe
12:12<_dp_>I'd be happy if it could
12:14<_dp_>ttd server itself is heavily restricted in what it can do and so is GS
12:25<andythenorth>why is newgrf problematic?
12:27<_dp_>new people are unlikely to join server with newgrfs
12:27<_dp_>also have enough grfs servers for pro-players already, want something different
12:51<_dp_>Now that I'm thinking of it, it may be better to just ask players to download patched client instead of newgrfs
12:51<_dp_>Doesn't make much difference whether they need to download one weird thing or other xD
12:52<_dp_>Also it feels like most of players on our grf servers use patched client already xD
12:53<sim-al2>If the newGRFS are on BaNanas, it's way easier to download those than try to find a patched clients on a website
12:54<Sylf>patched clients are fine for frequent visitor to a particular server, not so nice to beginners if that's your focus
12:54<_dp_>Yeah, it's a bit of a joke, but still, point is that players that don't know what they need those grfs for are unlikely to download them
12:55<_dp_>And those who know what they need it for can download client as well
12:56<_dp_>Sylf, ofc is not good for beginners, but it's almost as bad for beginners as newgrfs themselves, that's what I'm trying to say
12:57<sim-al2>True, our vanilla server gets more traffic than the newGRF server, but we often have players playing on both
13:08<andythenorth>Alberth, planetmaker how much instructions do I _need_ to put here? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/translations.html
13:08<andythenorth>just a link, or some more about “translations are included in the next release”
13:08<andythenorth>?
13:08*andythenorth re-writing to feature eints
13:09<@Alberth>:o quite old :p
13:09<andythenorth>yeah, I am embarassed :P
13:11<@Alberth>I would expect a description somewhere http://dev.openttdcoop.org/ only has a link to apply
13:12<andythenorth>yeah
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13:12<andythenorth>hmm if I deeplink this, there’s no indication of how to become a translator https://translator.openttdcoop.org/project/firs
13:13<@Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=68604&hilit=newgrf+translator apparently
13:14*andythenorth wonders if eints needs a refresh
13:14<andythenorth>eh, enough projects already :P
13:17<@Alberth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/eints/nightlies/LATEST/docs/ also exists, you may want to point to the language explanation, and the interface manual
13:20<frosch123>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/ManagingEints <- just copy the two paragraphs on becoming a translator from there?
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>wtf happened to sourceforge? it looks like a phishing website now...
13:20<@Rubidium>it is, isn't it?
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>it refuses to do anything before i "accept" their cookie terms, and that takes like 5 minutes?
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>wtf is it doing in that time?
13:23<andythenorth>waiting for you to move to github
13:23<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: constructing the installer with "applications" especially tailored for you
13:24<andythenorth>"fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git"
13:24-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
13:24*andythenorth will never learn
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>alias git hg
13:24<andythenorth>then my git is broken :P
13:25<andythenorth>I’d have to alias only in some subpaths or something
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>make a script that detects what repo you are in
13:25<andythenorth>maybe I should use a hg GUI client
13:25*andythenorth waits for bundles server
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but i didn't even get to download a file
13:28<@Rubidium>no, for that you first have to guess which of the download buttons is the right one
13:28<andythenorth>‘click here to install viruses'
13:34<andythenorth>?? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/translations.html
13:34<andythenorth>better ?
13:42<@Alberth>bit busy, just a minute
13:44*peter1138 attempts to get macbook going
13:44<@Alberth>andythenorth: with "1" I'd mention the text of the link as well, people tend to overlook it,otherwise fine to me
13:45<andythenorth>peter1138: I thought the charger died or something?
13:45<@peter1138>something died
13:45<andythenorth>Alberth: text of the link?
13:46<@Alberth>Apply as translator
13:46<@peter1138>managed to get it to turn on with the battery removed
13:46<andythenorth>peter1138: they’re quite take-apart-able those ones
13:46<@peter1138>anyway it's got a black screen right now
13:46<@peter1138>dunno if it's booting or stuck on an fsck or something
13:47<@peter1138>iirc the text console doesn't work until it's started X, heh
13:47<@peter1138>(grub was visible)
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13:51<andythenorth>FWIW https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/MacBook_Troubleshooting
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14:47<ryouma>where is the setting for making larger fonts?
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14:48<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_troubleshooting#My_User_Interface_is_too_small_to_read_.2F_My_font_is_unreadable_or_faulty
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14:48<ryouma>Alberth: i tried that, but without specifying the font family. i will try that. thanks.
14:49<@Alberth>sprite font has only one size
14:57<DanMacK>Hey all
14:57<andythenorth>yair
14:57<andythenorth>DanMacK:
14:57<andythenorth>o/
15:03<ryouma>thanks Alberth. that works now. but i wonder if it caused another issue. i click settings or newgrf and i get a dialog box that will not close. or is that unrelated?
15:03<ryouma>there is a dialog box that flashes for an instant before the main dialog box comes up. i don't know what it says because it goes away.
15:03<@Alberth>sounds unrelated
15:04<@Alberth>hmm, maybe it reports something about your font
15:04<@Alberth>it's not hiding under the main dialogue?
15:05<ryouma>i figured out the nonclosable ones. there is a miniscule x on the upper left.
15:05<ryouma>Alberth: it is hiding under main dialog
15:05<ryouma>there is no x
15:06<@Alberth>your screen resolution is too high :)
15:06<@Alberth>maybe continue reading the faq?
15:07<ryouma>it is grey. my monitor is 720 and i am running openttd at 720 and my fonts are like 28. still reading faq. maybe i should shut up until i have done so.
15:13<ryouma>part of it is that it assumed nobody would ever use the font sizes that i use. the evanescent dialog box says "scanning grf".
15:13<@Alberth>the next thing is about the gui being too small
15:14<@Alberth>ah right, that 's just looking for newgrfs, and disappears when done
15:15<@Alberth>depending on how many you have, and how big your disk is, it may need some time
15:16<ryouma>i guess i need to download something to get the bigger resolution. yeah i couldn't get the grf dialog to show becauset he buttons were off the edge of the screen.
15:16<@Alberth>the readme explains how it determines the path to search, you may want to change that by moving your openttd.cfg, or add a new one somewhere
15:18<@Alberth>gn
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15:23<@peter1138>well it never booted
15:23<@peter1138>oh well
15:24<@peter1138>doesn't turn on unless i press the power button and cmd and/or fn while attaching the power lead
15:24<@peter1138>pom te pom
15:25<andythenorth>shenanigans :P
15:25<andythenorth>sorry
15:25<andythenorth>there was a reason it was £0
15:25<@peter1138>haha
15:25<@peter1138>it did work :S
15:25<andythenorth>oh the mac surprise boot?
15:25<@peter1138>apple probably decided it was too old and remote-killed it
15:26*andythenorth wonders if it’s just dead pram battery
15:26<andythenorth>more likely some logic board problem, power management unit
15:27<andythenorth>nvm
15:28<@peter1138>my fallback laptop is a 2002 p4 with 512mb ram :p
15:28<andythenorth>those older macs can be frankensteined if you have a few dead ones around :P
15:28<andythenorth>but you don’t
15:28<andythenorth>people in the office have combined wrecks before to get a working one
15:28<andythenorth>but eh, waste of time
15:31<@peter1138>that was the best laptop i've ever had ;P
15:41<ryouma>until i figure out the big resolution thing i will run at openttd -r 640x360
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15:44<Eddi|zuHause>you'll probably get window size problems below 640x480
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15:52<andythenorth>hmm
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15:53<andythenorth>pikka’s AI has built all the roads I need
15:53<andythenorth>how handy
15:53<ryouma>Eddi|zuHause: full screen at that resolution seems to work
15:53<+glx>some ingame window won't fit
15:54<ryouma>i guess i should try to figure out how to make the grf stuff make things bigger then
16:00<andythenorth>my grain farm is now totally surrounded by houses :P
16:00<@peter1138>aren't there some windows which don't fit even on 640x480?
16:01<ryouma>i'm trying to get fonts that are large enough to be useful. i can do 720, but that makes the icons at the top too small.
16:02<ryouma>can you make them text instead of icons?
16:02<andythenorth>eh just usee 2x gui zoom
16:02<andythenorth>be done with it
16:02<andythenorth>use original baseset, with the proper font, not the crap font
16:03<ryouma>hmm, that's not in the faq. does that mean setting zoom min to 2?
16:04<NGC3982>I'm trying to run supybot with soap again. The admin port is forwarded, but i still get Connection failed on apconnect
16:04<NGC3982>I can't seem to find any logs
16:04<NGC3982>Suggestions?
16:08<ryouma>andythenorth: i can't find zoom, even though it's probably soiemthing obvious. it is not in the faq and not in the settings dialog on the resolution where fonts are large enough (although perhaps it is off edge of screen).
16:08<andythenorth>game options -> interface size -> double size
16:08<andythenorth>you’ll also need max zoom in settings to be 2x or 4x
16:09<andythenorth>the double-size UI has _some_ issues, but is substantially better than 1x on modern screens
16:09<andythenorth>imho
16:09<andythenorth>and also you should avoid using any crappy fonts in the game :)
16:10<@peter1138>comic sans?
16:11<andythenorth>nah that’s ok
16:11<andythenorth>works well
16:11*NGC3982 gives up for a moment.
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16:16*andythenorth bed
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16:35<_dp_>Hm, just a random thought... Openttd is normally a sandbox-type game but if you set up any specific goal it suddenly becomes a rts %)
16:41<_dp_>or, to be more specific, having a goal with significant time limit makes in rts
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17:06<_dp_>Now I wonder, do any of openttd developers actually play it like rts?... ;)
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17:15<@peter1138>"Now I wonder, do any of openttd developers actually play it" < fixed that for you
17:17<_dp_>lol
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17:24<Eddi|zuHause>i definitely didn't play a game since i started making a GRF
17:24<mari_kiri>peter1138: Unrelated note, looking at your name, have you played any monkey island games by any chance?
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17:25<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure you find a 1138 in practically everything that George Lucas ever touched
17:25<mari_kiri>Ah, did not know that
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>starting with his first movie, THX 1138
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>the most famous being "cell block 11 38" in star wars
17:32<__ln__>on some star wars dvd, pressing 1138 in the menu on the remote would start some hidden 5.1 surround test.
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17:32<mari_kiri>Also oh crap I think I missed about 4 ottdcoop games, should get stuff up to date and get back into it sometime
17:33<mari_kiri>But possibly not this week as I have a game to make for mini ludum dare
17:33<mari_kiri>Time flies when you're losing your mind
17:39<@peter1138>i must add that george lucas has never touched me
17:43<Wolf01>maybe not physically
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18:11<Demosthenex>so with 1.5.2, what's the best way to keep vehicles separated evenly along a shared route?
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18:57<Wolf01>'nighty night
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19:12<_dp_>ha, I think I found a way to change vehicle introduction dates)
19:13<_dp_>probably even separately for every company
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, the game has a bitmask for each vehicle, which company has access to it. the only values used here are: no company, all companies or one single company (preview). but in theory, you can use this to flip each company bit individually, provided that you implement a method to set the bits by GS, and you suppress the builtin vehicle progression
19:44<_dp_>exactly, and (ab)use command for accepting exclusive preview to update clients
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19:56<_dp_>though, does accepting preview cost some extra money?
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>no
19:57<_dp_>perfect xD
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>but it will also probably suppress the message that the engine became available
19:59<_dp_>not a big deal, can probably do one with GS instead
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 21 00:00:55 2015