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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-09-22

---Logopened Tue Sep 22 00:00:56 2015
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02:21<Pikka>isn't it
02:21<@peter1138>yes no
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02:32<andythenorth>horses
02:37<V453000>uranus
02:44<andythenorth>roflcopter
02:55<andythenorth>Pikka: making anything? o_O
02:57<V453000>show picturz! :>
02:57<Pikka>ummmmm
03:02<Supercheese>We've got Pineapple, so what's next must be... Piña Colada?
03:02<V453000>SnailKingdom
03:06<andythenorth>Dwarf Fortress
03:06<Pikka>maybe some small pineapple releases while I work on the Next Big Thing. for the moment, mostly uni work...
03:06<andythenorth>build castles
03:06<Pikka>then I'm playing postman pat over christmas
03:06<V453000>obvious question: what is next big thing? :>
03:07<Pikka>I'll let you know once I know ;)
03:07<V453000>:C
03:29<Pikka>what's next from andy and V?
03:29<V453000>nothing from me probably
03:29<V453000>for a while at least
03:29<V453000>could at least attempt to make some releases of the wip work before I fuck off entirely
03:31<V453000>I think BRIX is very close to looking at least as complete as RAWR ... usable, not complete
03:31<V453000>but time
03:32<Pikka>exactly
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03:35<andythenorth>yair
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03:36<V453000>I got a job for factorio, idkf if you know the game
03:36<V453000>somewhere I kind of want to keep making things for openttd here and there, but it is probably just nostalgia and force of habit
03:37<V453000>apart from simply "beign a job", the community is so much more alive, anything we make gets TONS of feedback from all over everywhere, there is WAY less technical problems with creating graphics, and there is a lot of room to make new things
03:37<V453000>so idk what is next :)
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03:57<Wolf01>o/
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04:53<Supercheese>Factorio, huzzah
04:53<Supercheese>I look forward to your work for it :)
04:53<Supercheese>just released my first (tiny) mod for it, in fact
04:54<Supercheese>and all mods are essentially just source code, like if OTTD just read .nml files directly
04:55<Supercheese>and associated graphics, of course
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05:36<Wolf01>about factorio... how do i update to 0.12? i'm stuck with 0.11.22 and i can't find any update :|
05:38<Wolf01>oh, they are experimental
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06:05<@peter1138>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilnzJBkWfIE < heh, 2½ years ago
06:05<@peter1138>Maybe 2¾...
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBZuE1wCQAA3NeQ.jpg
06:36<Wolf01>http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/bousquet/bousquet%20model%20CNAM%201a.jpg 0-6-2-2-6-0 wtf
06:39<Pikka>I see
06:39<Pikka>the cylinders are in the middle so that the steam connection can go through the rotating pivot, giving a better seal than pipes which have to move sideways too.
06:45<planetmaker>commit it, peter1138 ;)
06:55<@peter1138>nah, nobody was interested in it
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09:21<V453000>RGB CC is awesome.
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10:14<@peter1138>it's pointless
10:15<Wolf01>just add 16M colors on the dropdown
10:21<@peter1138>:S
10:21<planetmaker>why is it pointless?
10:21<planetmaker>if colourful pixels are pointless, then is the entire game as well
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10:29<@peter1138>yes that's true, it is pointless
10:31<andythenorth>o/
10:31<andythenorth>it’s always pointless
10:31<andythenorth>all of it
10:32*andythenorth spreads light and joy
10:32<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause makes a good argument for just not giving a fuck about offending people
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not saying never care. but the 80-20 rule applies
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>if you don't offend the other 80%, you've done a good enough job
10:35<andythenorth>I thought it was well put
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12:39<andythenorth>lo Alberth
12:40<@Alberth>hi hi
12:40<@Alberth>new firses appear all the time :)
12:53-!-DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
12:54<DanMacK>Hey all
12:54<andythenorth>moar firses Alberth
12:54<andythenorth>translations, innit :)
12:54<@Alberth>all translators will be happy
12:56<andythenorth>somehow musa encourages releasing
12:56<andythenorth>although the instructions could be…
12:56<andythenorth>dunno, are there any?
12:56<andythenorth>I read --help, but I’m
12:56<andythenorth>used to that
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13:21<@Alberth>don't remember tbh
13:22<@Alberth>someone made the BB makefile target, it wasn't me, I think
13:23<@Alberth>oh, bee reward had weird costs
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13:23*andythenorth should look at BB features again
13:23<andythenorth>(unrelated to musa)
13:23<andythenorth>< 1000t goals doesn’t work that well in my current game
13:26<@Alberth>playing ships only?
13:28<andythenorth>nah
13:28<andythenorth>just weird to build a route for 350t of food :)
13:28<andythenorth>logically, the amount is irrelevant really
13:28<andythenorth>but logic is not always the reason
13:30<@Alberth>I find it kind of fun to have such low requests
13:31<andythenorth>maybe I should overlook them :)
13:31<@Alberth>but maybe increase faster in the beginning?
13:31<andythenorth>don’t know :)
13:31<@Alberth>ie making them less often appearing
13:31<andythenorth>BB is fun, just feel like I should contribute more :P
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13:32<@Alberth>sounds like a good reason to me :)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27403 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2015-09-22 19:45:10 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 7 changes by McZapkie
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14:42<dlhero>one mechanic I haven't quite understood...
14:43<dlhero>with firs, I produce esp/fsp at a machine shop and then *transfer* these to two different of stations
14:43<dlhero>the fsp station is rated outstanding
14:43<dlhero>the esp station is rated poor
14:43<dlhero>does that affect esp production at original station?
14:44<andythenorth>nope
14:47<dlhero>:/
14:50<andythenorth>why would it ?
14:52<dlhero>well I had the same amount of trains (with almost same journey) and esp had rating 18% outputing just a fraction of fsp which was rated at >50%
14:53<dlhero>anyway I think it was an issue of too few trains.
15:04<andythenorth>eh, if we hit the ~16k articulated vehicle ID limit in Iron Horse, is it fixable in OpenTTD?
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15:05<frosch123>you need grf version 9 with 32bit callback results :)
15:05<@Alberth>:)
15:06<frosch123>or was that grf version 10?
15:06<@Alberth>stat safe, use N+1
15:06<@Alberth>*stay
15:06<frosch123>(i leave it to your imagination whether that is 2 or 8 versions ahead)
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15:07<@Alberth>N+(2+) :p
15:07<frosch123>i am quite sure eddi has an opinion whether grf versions should be counted decimal or hexadecimal
15:08<@Alberth>no problem N+(0x2+)
15:08<andythenorth>it takes a while to draw enough trains to use that many IDs :P
15:08<andythenorth>but eh
15:08<andythenorth>currently I am faffing around trying to micro-manage ranges of IDs
15:08<andythenorth>boring
15:09<@Alberth>add a isron horse2b :p
15:09<@Alberth>*iron
15:09<andythenorth>that is my plan b
15:09<@Alberth>how do you get 16k vehicle IDs without insane numbers of trains?
15:10<andythenorth>rosters
15:10<andythenorth>and 3 part vehicles
15:10<Taede>just for comparison sake, how many vehicle id's does 2cc have?
15:10<frosch123>Alberth: he reserves ranges of 1024 ids for specfic purposes, and then deprecates thenm
15:10<andythenorth>and ID ranges for types of vehicles that are reserved, but often not 100% used
15:10<andythenorth>also what frosch said :P
15:11<@Alberth>oh
15:11<frosch123>should grf version 9 increade the grfid to 64bit?
15:11<@Alberth>make it 128 bit, just to be safe :p
15:11<andythenorth>Road Hog I just start at 0 and count up in 10s :P
15:11<frosch123>also cargo labels
15:12<andythenorth>yeah 64bit grfid, we can reserve acres per author
15:16<@Alberth>you can just number each roster from 0 onward, right?
15:18<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> (i leave it to your imagination whether that is 2 or 8 versions ahead) <-- obviously, you should skip 9 and go straight for 10
15:19<@Alberth>thus avoid any problem with 95 and 98, sounds fair
15:19<frosch123>i don't think grf verison 8 is that bad
15:19<andythenorth>Alberth: I can yes, that is an alternative
15:19<andythenorth>I have to faff about a bit more, and action 2 chains are dangerous
15:20<andythenorth>would be unclear which vehicle ID was being used in cbs
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: why do you need ranges for each roster?
15:20<andythenorth>‘need’ is a strong word
15:20<andythenorth>the implementation happened that way
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>CETS works fine without ranges
15:20<@Alberth>otherwise he wouldn't run out of ids?
15:20<andythenorth>it was an artefact of the actual design for the set
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>i have a range for first, second and third vehicle parts
15:21<andythenorth>yeah, that would also work
15:21<andythenorth>I am picking least-work refactoring at this point though
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>with 0x1000 possible vehicles each
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i have a "company" column in the tracking table, which basically is the same as your rosters, i imagine
15:22<andythenorth>similar
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>there is no point in encoding that into the vehicle ID
15:23<@peter1138>if you care about vehicle ids you're probably doing something silly/wrong
15:23<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause I am +1 to the argument, and -1 to refactoring existing code to accomodate that
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>if CETS reaches 4k vehicles, i get a problem ;)
15:26<andythenorth>I keep this quote at the top of my to-do list
15:26<andythenorth>“"Eddi|zuHause:if you know it won't change, there's no point in refactoring””
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>yay, out of context quote.
15:27<andythenorth>was w.r.t FIRS, but eh, it’s a good quote
15:27<andythenorth>Iron Horse might make it to 2000 vehicles, and it will take ~10 years to do that
15:27<andythenorth>but eh, we did silly 3 part vehicles
15:28<@Alberth>still only 6k vehicles
15:28<andythenorth>and I lazy-allocated ranges in blocks of 10 or so to make counting easy :P
15:28<andythenorth>and sub-divided into stupid allocations for ‘engines’, ‘wagons’, ‘extra engines’, ‘extra wagons'
15:28<andythenorth>oh and a special range for ‘wtf'
15:28<andythenorth>this was silly
15:28<andythenorth>I bin that, move on
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that probably was silly
15:29<@Alberth>how is engines different from extra engines?
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>the only requirement for my vehicle IDs was that they should be stable across adding/removing vehicles
15:29<andythenorth>this is what arises from trying to stick to arbitrary limits for number of vehicles
15:29<andythenorth>that is a BAD FEATURE
15:30<andythenorth>where is that pikka? :P :)
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15:31<Eddi|zuHause>if you turn upside down, maybe you recognize him easier?
15:31<Demosthenex>so, is it worthwhile to tack on a mail car or passenger car to all my trains?
15:32<andythenorth>“there will always be 24 ‘standard’ engines, and 24 or less narrow gauge / metro / maglev” :P
15:32<andythenorth>yay, until we start on roster number 2 :P
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>Demosthenex: depends what you're trying to achieve
15:32<andythenorth>if you want to transport mail or pax, add those cars :)
15:32<andythenorth>otherwise no
15:41<Demosthenex>i meant, it seems to be produced and pile up, would it produce a background income if i just have a car on each train?
15:43<Demosthenex>also if i turn on autoreplace old vehicles in my options, does that affect all players on the multieplayer game or just me?
15:44<frosch123>if you select it, it says "company setting" in the bottom panel
15:55<Demosthenex>cool.
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15:58<Demosthenex>can i change station legnth?
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>you can add tiles to it afterwards
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>or you can remove them by using the bulldozer tool (NOT the dynamite tool, that kills the whole station)
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16:10<Demosthenex>that's what i missed.ok
16:10<Demosthenex>and adding tiles is just adding a station of length 1?
16:10<Demosthenex>to the ends?
16:11<frosch123>yes, but you can also overbuild stations
16:11<frosch123>sometimes that is needed to achieve a certain visual appeareance
16:13<_dp_>why is in not allowed to build stuff under vehicles?
16:14<_dp_>I understand that removing can cause some issues but just adding something doesn't seem to pose any problem
16:15<frosch123>well, last year someone allowed to build signals under trains
16:15<frosch123>now we have a flyspray bug, which crashes servers and noone cares fixing
16:16<frosch123>so "doesn't seem to pose any problem" is hard to tell
16:16<_dp_>hm, which bug? never had any crashes even though I use it regularly
16:19<frosch123>maybe 6142, but it's not a crash, but something with placing/removing signals
16:21<frosch123>there are two other bugs about yapf and yapp running in infinite loops
16:21<frosch123>not sure whether there is a fourth :)
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16:29<Demosthenex>so what's the fastest way to grow a city?
16:30<frosch123>do you really want to know?
16:30<frosch123>or do you prefer to figure it out yourself?
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16:31<Sylf>Unleash 1 bus in the town
16:31<_dp_>ye, it crashes trains, not servers) well, that's kinda expected when you meddle with signals if you ask me ^^
16:31<_dp_>btw, it may not even be related to building under trains, I can get pbs to show wrong green even without that
16:32<_dp_>basically by removing signal in front of it
16:33<Demosthenex>heh, so my norm of surrounding a town with my own bus service is ok
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16:34<_dp_>Demosthenex, surrounding may not always work, you need 5 active stations in town zone to get max growth rate
16:35<_dp_>also small towns can be boosted by funding buildings every other day (aka powerfunding)
16:36<frosch123>Demosthenex: https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/User:Mfb/Towns
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16:39<andythenorth>building stuff under vehicles is unrealism
16:39<andythenorth>:P
16:39<Demosthenex>wow, that's a bit over the top
16:42<Sylf>It's simple stuff, really
16:43<Sylf>5 stations serviced at a frequency (1 bus is enough)
16:43<Sylf>And don't have dead-end roads
16:44<_dp_>and fund buildings every 3 months if that's enabled
16:44<Sylf>Eliminate any road intersections for a better growth performance.
16:44<Sylf>That's about all mfb's page is saying
16:46<_dp_>dead-ends are a less important, as long as you have enough roads in some sane layout
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16:47<_dp_>did growth emulator btw some time ago, can help understanding that article: http://dpointer.org/ttd/town_growth/
16:48<Sylf>Write a game script that perpetually expand any cities
16:48<_dp_>it is 1.5.0 though, there are some minor changes since then
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16:50<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
16:50<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 11 minutes and 24 seconds ago: <andythenorth> :P
16:52<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: stuff is back to normal
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>i did notice that :p
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19:04<Wolf01>'night
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21:36<supermop>yo Pikka
21:47<Pikka>yoyo
21:55<supermop>hows it going down there?
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22:05<Pikka>not bad :) where are you now?
22:31<supermop>new york again
22:32<supermop>sorry for the delay
22:35<Eddi|zuHause>delays might be due to the distance.
22:37<supermop>and how is the continent Eddi|zuHause
22:38<Eddi|zuHause>dark
22:38<supermop>as is here
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 23 00:00:58 2015