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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-10-03

---Logopened Sat Oct 03 00:00:11 2015
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00:33<Eddi|zuHause>berndj: yes, once you set up the timetable, ctrl+click on the "start date" button to spread them out
00:34<Eddi|zuHause>make sure there is enough waiting time to cancel out delays, and that the vehicles can overtake at the loading station
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02:46<andythenorth>o/
02:58<@Alberth>moin
03:01<@Alberth>andythenorth: you may want to add r27279 is still after branching 1.5.2 ?
03:01<@Alberth>or 1.5.0, for that matter
03:01<andythenorth>urgh, yes
03:02<andythenorth>http://media.nbcnewyork.com/images/652*435/nba_a_netsfanbag_600.jpg
03:03<@Alberth>don't worry, I get numbers wrong all the time :)
03:04<@Alberth>git numbers are so terrible, I only copy/paste, so I make less errors there :p
03:05<@Rubidium>moin
03:05<@Alberth>moin Rb
03:07<@Rubidium>do you mean the short hashes or the long ones?
03:08<@Rubidium>but yeah, they are very suspect to typos
03:10*andythenorth always c-p with hashes
03:10<andythenorth>but rVWXYZ is too tempting to type :P
03:11<andythenorth>this is going to keep recurring
03:12<andythenorth>every page of the forum thread, I’m going to have to again clarify it’s not r24998
03:12<andythenorth>because I can’t edit the original release post
03:12<Eddi|zuHause>ask a mod?
03:13<Eddi|zuHause>(via the ! button)
03:13<andythenorth>I tried that earlier
03:13<andythenorth>but there is no option for “I made a mistake"
03:13<andythenorth>only “report warez” and such
03:13<Eddi|zuHause>there's an "other" category
03:14<andythenorth>who is mod on that forum
03:14<andythenorth>how does forums work :P
03:14<andythenorth>@seen pikka
03:14<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 20 hours, 50 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <Pikka> hmm... hopefully
03:15<Eddi|zuHause>you generally get worse results if you try to reach a specific mod
03:15<Eddi|zuHause>anyway. gtg
03:16<@Alberth>people post random stuff, and other people react by writing other random stuff?
03:17<andythenorth>sounds about right
03:17<@Alberth>but yeah, use "other", and explain in the post area what you want and why, that should work
03:17<andythenorth>yeah, done :)
03:17*andythenorth should fix BB
03:17<andythenorth>after breakfast
03:18<@Alberth>good oder :)
03:18<@Alberth>*order
03:18*andythenorth wonders how the story book works
03:19<@Alberth>never used it, but afaik it's a collection of pages, you can make new pages, and add text etc
03:19<andythenorth>"Instead of removing the goal, you can mark it as complete and the Story Book will show that the goal is completed."
03:19<@Alberth>and delete / change pages too
03:19<andythenorth>I would like to show won goals
03:19<andythenorth>maybe that’s built in
03:19<andythenorth>https://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSStoryPage.html
03:20<@Alberth>probably for linking to a goal from the page?
03:20<@Alberth>also, we delete the goal after being finished
03:20<andythenorth>yes
03:21<andythenorth>maybe we should do it differently?
03:21<andythenorth>maybe this ‘won_goals’ structure I’ve patched is daft
03:21<andythenorth>oh, but we don’t want them to stick around in the current goals list
03:21<@Alberth>in new context, anything you made is daft
03:22<@Alberth>no, I'd like a nice short list of things to do
03:22<@Alberth>but you can make story pages with things that you did
03:23<@Alberth>What could be done, but it kind-of belongs in BR, is to measure time you needed to achieve the goal
03:25<andythenorth>yeah
03:25<andythenorth>I don’t want to care about that in BB :)
03:25<andythenorth>but BB seems like a nice platform for forks
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03:34*andythenorth wants a goal debug window
03:34<andythenorth>where I can mark them as done :P
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03:40<@Alberth>not sure if that's possible, is there a "user clicked/selected something" event?
03:40<@Alberth>then you can react by asking a question
03:40<planetmaker>Alberth, yes, such should exist; it's used iirc in the tutorialGS
03:40<planetmaker>good morning also
03:40<@Alberth>alternatively, use the widely employed cheat of making a sign "goal done" :p
03:41<@Alberth>moin pm
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03:47<andythenorth>hmm
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03:47<andythenorth>some goals, the source is just too far away
03:47<andythenorth>that’s the downside of my won_goals approach :P
03:48<andythenorth>goals were being repeated because they were the only ones meeting distance rules
03:48<andythenorth>also 128x1024 map
03:48<andythenorth>:P
03:49<@Alberth>add stricter rules for accepting a goal?
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03:50<@Alberth>you can also keep records about cargoes, and prefer cargoes with more available options
03:51<@Alberth>however, that pushes you to pax :p
03:54<andythenorth>yeah
03:54<andythenorth>I think it’s fine
03:54<andythenorth>I just have to accept ignoring some goals
03:55<andythenorth>I’m not going 256 tiles for 37 crates of wool
03:55<andythenorth>map shows absolutely no logic https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7497/BB-game-128x1024.png
03:55<andythenorth>it’s great
03:55<@Alberth>ha :) I was ignoring all supplies in my last game :)
03:56<andythenorth>planes :P
03:56<Hiddenfunstuff>hey you people! are messing with timetables worth it at all?
03:56*andythenorth doesn’t have planes yet
03:56<andythenorth>don’t use timetables, except for making pax vehicles wait a few days at stations where full-load would take too long
03:57<Hiddenfunstuff>since theres no real "wait for X vehicle to pass" or something like that they're quite useless?
03:57<andythenorth>some people find them essential
03:58*andythenorth is a bad guide to timetables
03:58<andythenorth>I’m too stupid to understand them
03:58<@Alberth>some people make elaborate time schedules for all trains
03:58<Hiddenfunstuff>Good.. we never found use for them either in what? 7 years of playing the game
03:58<@Alberth>nice map andy, lots of ships? doesn't look like you have
03:58<andythenorth>I don’t see the purpose of timetables
03:59<@Alberth>Hiddenfunstuff: different playing styles, different ideas of what you need ?
03:59<@Alberth>I have yet to find a use for groups :)
03:59<andythenorth>I don’t understand how having thousands of ‘vehicle is running late’ messages is interesting or fun
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03:59<planetmaker>OpenTTD supports varying playing styles. Not every playing style needs everything which is possible
03:59<andythenorth>timetables can’t actually do anything to affect vehicle behavious
03:59<Hiddenfunstuff>only thing the vehicle grouping helps at when switching from 1 to another railtype
04:00<andythenorth>the ‘wait at stations’ is useful, but they don’t do anything else
04:00<Hiddenfunstuff>there was one game which had features on the timetable like "wait for X amount time", "wait for train X to pass" etc which was useful
04:00<andythenorth>except cause you to waste a lot of time scheduling, and then getting a lot of news messages
04:00<andythenorth>it’s yak-shaving for people who like real trains
04:01<Hiddenfunstuff>"Train 582 is lost"
04:01<andythenorth>Alberth: groups are just for replacing :P
04:01<andythenorth>they have zero other use
04:01<andythenorth>sometimes you start with a 1000hp engine, and then you only want to replace 50% of them when the 2000hp engine is introduced
04:01<andythenorth>otherwise they’re more yak-shaving for foamers
04:02<@Alberth>euhm, why not do the other 50% too?
04:02<andythenorth>fortunately openttd is a flexible game, supporting many more styles than just andythenorths
04:02<andythenorth>:P
04:02<andythenorth>sometimes the small engine is fine for small trains
04:02<andythenorth>why upgrade? o_O
04:03<@Alberth>Hiddenfunstuff: lost trains usually means your tracks are not complete somewhere
04:03<@Alberth>less hassle with groups? :p
04:03<andythenorth>fair
04:03<andythenorth>Hiddenfunstuff: try timetables?
04:03<andythenorth>:P
04:03<Hiddenfunstuff>Been there, done that.. It didnt really feel important or useful
04:03<andythenorth>eh BB changes my usual freight playing style a lot
04:04<andythenorth>usually I have many mines, farms etc -> small number of of processors
04:04<andythenorth>so that there is a lot of output at a single steel mill or such
04:04<andythenorth>BB has cargo going to all the processors
04:04<andythenorth>sometimes one mine is going to multiple destinations
04:05<Hiddenfunstuff>usually the game ends when i r un out of certain industries like iron and coal or oil
04:05*andythenorth wonders
04:05<andythenorth>if BB can’t find any valid industry goals, maybe it should start constructing industries?
04:05<andythenorth>o_O
04:05<andythenorth>maybe it should construct industries anyway
04:06<Hiddenfunstuff>who knows
04:06<andythenorth>nobody yet
04:06<andythenorth>have to code it, test it :P
04:06<@Alberth>/me likes that thought :)
04:06*Hiddenfunstuff has no idea whats going on
04:07<@Alberth>andy is hacking Busy Bee
04:07<Hiddenfunstuff>and that is?
04:07<@Alberth>a game script providing cargo goals to fulfil
04:07<andythenorth>I am not hacking it right now much, my game is fun, and I’m scared of breaking it :P
04:07<Hiddenfunstuff>Oh right.. think got it installed and played one game.. Didnt impress much
04:07<Hiddenfunstuff>it had potential.. but it wasent totally captured
04:08<andythenorth>what was the potential? o_O
04:08<andythenorth>and what lacked? o_O
04:08<Hiddenfunstuff>To keep the game and player not from dying to exhaustion due to lack of new industries?
04:08<@Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=72498&hilit=Busy+Bee
04:09<Hiddenfunstuff>and when you have already turned the whole map into ocean and have huge straight lines of rails going around the place.. it tends to get boring
04:09<Hiddenfunstuff>to a point where you start to flush out the cities with water
04:09<@Alberth>we usually quit playing after a 50-100 years :)
04:10<Hiddenfunstuff>my games stretch some 2000 years
04:10<@Alberth>straight lines are way too boring
04:10<@Alberth>I had a lot of fun again when I stopped terraforming the map for my tracks
04:11<@Alberth>and instead built the tracks on the landscape, and use eg height differences for bridges etc
04:12<andythenorth>+1
04:12<andythenorth>it’s why tropic map gen is sooooo boring
04:13<andythenorth>the map I’m playing has a single small mountain of 6 height levels
04:13<andythenorth>the rest of it is ~flat
04:14<andythenorth>terrain type ‘alpinish'
04:14<andythenorth>yeah, if the alps are in Holland :P
04:15<Hiddenfunstuff>max height levels: 600
04:15<@Alberth>number of height levels is irrelevant
04:16<@Alberth>it doesn't matter if your trains is at level 50 or 500, it behaves the same
04:16<andythenorth>the ‘problem’ is that in addition to terragenesis, and all the player setttings there
04:16<andythenorth>tropic also has its own rules
04:16<andythenorth>so the player settings are somewhat moot
04:16<andythenorth>which is always nice
04:24<andythenorth>bah
04:24<andythenorth>town of 70 pax
04:24<andythenorth>pax per month: 0
04:24<andythenorth>mail per month: 0
04:24<andythenorth>:(
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04:30<Wolf01>hi hi
04:31<andythenorth>o/
04:33<andythenorth>biab
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10:03<andythenorth>o/
10:12*andythenorth buys a competitor
10:12<andythenorth>such tycoon
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10:46*andythenorth hates shrinking towns
10:46<andythenorth>tedious
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12:02<Demosthenex>so, any "fast" way to fix a timetable? i can't seem to find any shortcuts, and autofill isn't what i mean ;]
12:08<Demosthenex>talk about tedious, the "add some slack to each timetable entry" drives me nuts.
12:08<Demosthenex>https://wiki.openttd.org/Timetable
12:09<Demosthenex>it'd be nice to have an option, like "add X% extra time to autofilled timetables", and "default stay duration for timetables"
12:09<Demosthenex>then i'd only have to do data entry (without any hotkeys, grunt and click) on the exceptions.
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12:20<Eddi|zuHause>try one of the timetable improvement patches
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12:42<Demosthenex>Eddi|zuHause: a newgrf, or a real patch where i have to recompile?
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>a "real" patch
12:44<Demosthenex>ah.
12:44<Demosthenex>if i could doubleclick, or apply a % extension to timetables by defualt, or specify a default stay length, those are things i would patch for.
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12:59<Eddi|zuHause>i could imagine someone did that... but i don't actually know.
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15:46<andythenorth>is super cat
15:54<andythenorth>@seen danmack
15:54<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 3 days, 5 hours, 21 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
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16:55<ThreeNoses>hello, I reported FS#6376 so if you need any feedback just ping me
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17:15<@peter1138>Probably just need to remove the NewGRFs.
17:16<@peter1138>Or rather, not use them.
17:17<@peter1138>^ ThreeNoses
17:20<Sylf>that old wagons with new cargos, and use-able default aircraft, are pointless without industry newgrf loaded in the game
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17:21<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
17:21<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 27 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <andythenorth> @seen danmack
17:22<DanMacK>great minds think alike... lol
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18:05<ThreeNoses>hey Sylf: which industry newgrf in particular?
18:06<ThreeNoses>peter1138: would his suggestion help? or am I better disabling them after all?
18:06<ThreeNoses>the game didn't allow me to refit those mail wagons
18:14<Sylf>any
18:14<Sylf>anything that introduce new cargo
18:15<Sylf>everything from opengfx+ industries to TaI industries to FIRS to YETI etc
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>just remember, only one of those at a time :p
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21:40<ThreeNoses>alright thanks fellas
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22:53<Mazur>You're quitge welcome.
22:53<Mazur>-g
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 04 00:00:13 2015