--- | Log | opened Thu Oct 22 00:00:59 2015 |
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02:48 | <Flygon> | Eddi|zuHause, __ln__: Simplified and Traditional Chinese are the same language, spoken |
02:48 | <Flygon> | In fact |
02:48 | <Flygon> | The American and British English comparison is incredibly on-the-point |
02:48 | <__ln__> | but what aboot cantonese and mandarin? |
02:48 | <Flygon> | Simplified Chinese was introduced to make the language easier to read. This means that a lot of characters were 'simplified' compared to the Traditional character |
02:48 | <Flygon> | As a basic rule |
02:49 | <Flygon> | All Chinese use Simplified Chinese except for the Hong Kongers, which use Traditional |
02:49 | <tipsyTentacle> | Cantonese and Mandarin are two different languages |
02:49 | <tipsyTentacle> | Cantonese is "written in Mandarin" though |
02:49 | <Flygon> | They're generally compatible, but some characters might be confusing to read for someone unfamiliar with the other language |
02:49 | <Flygon> | Yeah, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken as seperate languages |
02:49 | <Flygon> | Written Chinese is... 'special' |
02:50 | <Flygon> | In that, pre-Gana/Kana and pre-Hangul Japan and Korea had pretty much identically written written language to Chinese |
02:50 | <Flygon> | Hence why Korea and Japan have had hereditary Hanja/Kanji (tho, they're being gradually phased out) |
02:50 | <tipsyTentacle> | Same with Vietnam pre-colonial era |
02:51 | <Flygon> | This meant that even if the people from the three countries couldn't SPEAK to eachother, they were mutually intelligible written |
02:51 | <Flygon> | Note: I'm not a linguistics expert |
02:51 | <Flygon> | I just pick these things up due to curiousity |
02:52 | <Flygon> | And take my advice with salt. Plenty of it. |
02:52 | <Flygon> | tipsyTentacle: I don't know too much about Vietnam, myself |
02:52 | <Flygon> | Nor the language |
02:52 | <tipsyTentacle> | As someone from the region, I think what you said is correct. |
02:52 | <Flygon> | I understand it's related closely to Chinese region languages tho |
02:52 | <Flygon> | Gotcha |
02:53 | <Flygon> | Either way, I'm Australian |
02:53 | <tipsyTentacle> | Vietnamese is a weird one. It deviates from Klmer, I believe, but there are lots of Chinese loan words and prior to French colonialism, was written with Han/Chinese characters. |
02:53 | <Flygon> | My real extent of my language knowledge is having a vague telling of it someone is speaking either Korean or Mandarin on the Train :B |
02:53 | <Flygon> | Klmer? |
02:54 | <tipsyTentacle> | Khmer* |
02:55 | <Flygon> | Hmm |
02:55 | * | Flygon looks these up |
02:55 | <tipsyTentacle> | Um, a language primarily in Southeast Asia. I don't know much about it. It might be extinct? |
02:55 | <Flygon> | Yeah, might explain why I've never heard of it xP |
02:55 | <Flygon> | Most of my interaction with people in the region tends to be Pinoys and Malaysians |
02:56 | <Flygon> | It's kind of maddening playing the MMOs with them, because... |
02:56 | <Flygon> | Most have incredibly good English |
02:56 | <Flygon> | But will tip back to Tagalog the slightest leeway they get. Which leaves me out in the cold. :B |
02:56 | <Flygon> | #australiantimezoneproblems |
02:56 | <tipsyTentacle> | Hehe that's actually fairly amusing |
02:57 | <tipsyTentacle> | I remember my friend was in a WoW guild that had a lot of German players and chat was divided between German and Englishh |
02:57 | <Flygon> | And with the art side of things... it's incredibly frustrating trying to work with Japanese speakers |
02:57 | <Flygon> | Because the problem is... |
02:57 | <Flygon> | We really REALLY want to work with eachother, and to talk |
02:57 | <Flygon> | But getting good translations happening is nigh impossible :D |
02:58 | <Flygon> | Particulary frustrating when we want to exchange art advice @_@ |
02:58 | <Flygon> | Heheh... |
02:58 | <Flygon> | When Gravity tried to extend Ragnarok Online to Europe initially |
02:58 | <tipsyTentacle> | Yeah, translation software usually don't do English-Japanese well. The languages are... fairly different, to say the least. |
02:58 | <Flygon> | They gave the server operator the AEGIS software |
02:59 | <Flygon> | But instead of handing the euRO operators the same AEGIS software iRO used (American English), they gave them jRO (Japan, obviously)'s software in GERMAN |
02:59 | <Flygon> | Not only was the entire internal AEGIS software in Japanese, they were given zero provisions for offering the game in other extremely obviously important languages :D |
03:00 | <Flygon> | Anyway, the service crashed and burned a few years later, the operator was basically "Blame Gravity, they fucked us over", and the playerbase (prodiminantly German for obvious reasons) felt a bit bitter over the whole thing |
03:00 | <tipsyTentacle> | Ouch, sounds harsh. |
03:01 | <Flygon> | Anyway, it gets reincernated later, in plain English (sure, non-English speakers play, but it's easier for a Spanish guy to muddle through than German :U), annnd, yeay |
03:01 | <Flygon> | yeah* |
03:01 | <Flygon> | (plain, as in, using iRO's translation using American English) |
03:02 | <tipsyTentacle> | hehe interesting. |
03:02 | <Flygon> | But... yeah. One of the stupidest translation trainwreck stories in history |
03:02 | <tipsyTentacle> | Gaming* history |
03:02 | <tipsyTentacle> | I am sure there have been wars over errors in translations |
03:02 | <tipsyTentacle> | :P |
03:02 | <Flygon> | True hahaha |
03:02 | <Flygon> | Also, regarding the software translation thing for JPN-ENG |
03:02 | <Flygon> | The issue wasn't the software |
03:02 | <Flygon> | The issue was that the HUMANS we were using didn't do art :D |
03:03 | <tipsyTentacle> | Oh! So lots of jargon? |
03:03 | <Flygon> | Eeyup :D |
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03:03 | <tipsyTentacle> | Ouch. ]; |
03:03 | <Flygon> | Buuut... yeah |
03:04 | <Flygon> | Advised him to talk to a Japanese artist about what I was trying to help him with |
03:04 | * | Flygon scratches head |
03:04 | <tipsyTentacle> | Also, a random note, but Khmer is also known as Cambodian, as in the Cambodian language. |
03:05 | <Flygon> | Oooh |
03:05 | <Flygon> | oooooooooh |
03:05 | <Flygon> | Ooooh |
03:05 | <Flygon> | That's why I've heard of it before |
03:05 | <Flygon> | It rang bells |
03:05 | <Flygon> | But... derp |
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03:42 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
03:42 | <tipsyTentacle> | Hello. |
03:57 | <Flygon> | 'eyy |
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05:12 | <planetmaker> | \o |
05:13 | <tipsyTentacle> | Oi |
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06:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <Flygon> Yeah, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken as seperate languages <-- so they write the same word, but pronounce it completely different? |
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06:21 | <Flygon> | iirc |
06:21 | <Flygon> | Pretty much, yes. |
06:22 | <Flygon> | Each letter from Chinese script basically represents a individual word/concept, no matter how it's spoken |
06:22 | <tipsyTentacle> | Pretty much |
06:23 | <Flygon> | This is also pretty much why the Chinese Government started introducing a phonetic script around the early 1900s... because it would've been a nuciance to create new words. But I don't know Chinese languages well enough to be certain. |
06:23 | <tipsyTentacle> | bopomofo~<3 |
06:24 | <tipsyTentacle> | Also known as Zhuyin or Zhuyin fuhao |
06:24 | <tipsyTentacle> | It was created by the Nationalist government for phonetic notation |
06:25 | <tipsyTentacle> | It isn't used outside of children books and dictionaries (in Taiwan, the bastion of the Nationalist government) |
06:26 | <tipsyTentacle> | The mainland Communist government uses pinyin as its system for phonetic notation. |
06:26 | * | Flygon nod |
06:27 | <Flygon> | Again, I'm in no way a linguist, so, don't trust me for the specificis |
06:27 | <Flygon> | specifics* |
06:28 | <tipsyTentacle> | Again, this is only because I grew up in an East Asian community (while being East Asian myself), so... yeah. I have personal experience with both systems, mew. |
06:29 | <tipsyTentacle> | The kid books in the "traditional chinese" section of my local library has bopomofo in it. |
06:33 | <tipsyTentacle> | Anyhow, the phonetic script wasn't made to replace the characters, I believe. If I remember right, there were lots of people against using a phonetic script (and a lot of people opposed to simplications of the characters). |
06:34 | <tipsyTentacle> | I would guess that it was made to make teaching a standardized version of Mandarin to the entire nation much easier. |
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07:49 | <fjb> | Moin |
08:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Mahlzeit |
08:04 | <fjb> | Gute Idee! |
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08:09 | * | fjb should find some time to play OpenTTD again. |
08:12 | * | tipsyTentacle approves of that plan. |
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09:44 | <Wolf01> | i don't know why suddenly came to my mind this: teacher "you shouldn't ask for 'a glass of water', but 'water in a glass, please'" |
09:48 | <planetmaker> | :) |
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09:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that. of course, is pure nonsense. |
09:56 | <V453000> | I also think that it is shit on a heap |
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10:47 | <Wolf01> | i think i'll purchase other 5 emerald express sets, just to make 2 trains with 3 cars each one |
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12:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in my mind, less than 4 wagons is not a proper train... |
12:42 | <frosch123> | so most dmus are no proper trains? |
12:44 | <V453000> | slugs are people too |
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12:44 | <frosch123> | did you draw slug biters yet? |
12:45 | <frosch123> | resp. how often per day to you bring up that topic to convince people? |
12:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch123: yes. |
12:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and slugs are way scarier than biters :p |
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12:56 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: what when there are many axles? |
12:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: there's almost a don't-care about number of axles |
12:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, slugs don't have axles :p |
12:58 | <@Rubidium> | http://ekladata.com/v_bF2ZryNs3YGpqTD_uSw1Ifjy0.jpg ;) |
12:59 | <V453000> | slug biters are coming for sure, I just didnt start them yet :P |
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13:01 | <frosch123> | haha, your graphics skills have definitely a train background :p |
13:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: that's pretty much a "no" on the train scale :p |
13:02 | <V453000> | yeah probably not :) at least not anytime soon |
13:02 | <V453000> | got enough stuff to do for the game already |
13:05 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?4,4369686 <- that's an even nicer question about... is it a train... or isn't it? |
13:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, that is probably a train. |
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13:06 | <@Rubidium> | though... it only has four wagons |
13:07 | <@Rubidium> | the rest can be powered |
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14:03 | <repower15> | hi all is trhere a listing where i can see stuck trains |
14:03 | <repower15> | i now got 400 running and somtimes they pile up |
14:03 | <repower15> | only ones a year i got notice |
14:03 | <repower15> | maybe a flag i can indicate on my own scripting |
14:04 | <@Terkhen> | hello |
14:04 | <repower15> | hi ter |
14:05 | <repower15> | its then a miss to clean all up |
14:06 | <repower15> | i folow the max load available but thats on high traffic not a good one as water is not a high value or things like that |
14:07 | <FLHerne> | repower15: In the map, there's an option that shows the positions of trains |
14:07 | <FLHerne> | A big clump of trains that aren't moving is fairly conspicuous |
14:07 | <repower15> | i know but on a 12024 map its not that good view |
14:08 | <repower15> | 1024 ;-) |
14:08 | <repower15> | FLHerne: you may also know thar rome on canvas is fairly limited |
14:08 | <repower15> | that room |
14:09 | <FLHerne> | Yeah, it's not ideal |
14:09 | <FLHerne> | Sorting by profit in the vehicle list can work, but takes a while |
14:10 | <FLHerne> | to be noticeable |
14:10 | <repower15> | i will check that |
14:10 | <repower15> | if a cross map route piles up then you are in notice float |
14:12 | <repower15> | also as in Railroadtycoon a realy good feature is a list of townes thar need things Eqal to Openttd woudt be a list of growing time |
14:13 | <repower15> | so you can see this town is in good shape and hase alot of things othere might be delivered more |
14:13 | <repower15> | im now playing since 0.5 2games a real humen year |
14:15 | <repower15> | is there a mailinglist to get some user reqestet feature for futher vertions |
14:16 | <repower15> | or for anouncing better behavier on some build ins |
14:17 | <frosch123> | https://wiki.openttd.org/Community <- that lists everything |
14:18 | <repower15> | thanks |
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14:18 | <repower15> | most angry is that townes do not take water or food if the auto builder puts some waterwell or food plant near |
14:19 | <repower15> | BYE im off for today |
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15:35 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
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18:31 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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23:08 | <greeter> | greetings all |
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--- | Log | closed Fri Oct 23 00:00:00 2015 |