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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-10-22

---Logopened Thu Oct 22 00:00:59 2015
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02:48<Flygon>Eddi|zuHause, __ln__: Simplified and Traditional Chinese are the same language, spoken
02:48<Flygon>In fact
02:48<Flygon>The American and British English comparison is incredibly on-the-point
02:48<__ln__>but what aboot cantonese and mandarin?
02:48<Flygon>Simplified Chinese was introduced to make the language easier to read. This means that a lot of characters were 'simplified' compared to the Traditional character
02:48<Flygon>As a basic rule
02:49<Flygon>All Chinese use Simplified Chinese except for the Hong Kongers, which use Traditional
02:49<tipsyTentacle>Cantonese and Mandarin are two different languages
02:49<tipsyTentacle>Cantonese is "written in Mandarin" though
02:49<Flygon>They're generally compatible, but some characters might be confusing to read for someone unfamiliar with the other language
02:49<Flygon>Yeah, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken as seperate languages
02:49<Flygon>Written Chinese is... 'special'
02:50<Flygon>In that, pre-Gana/Kana and pre-Hangul Japan and Korea had pretty much identically written written language to Chinese
02:50<Flygon>Hence why Korea and Japan have had hereditary Hanja/Kanji (tho, they're being gradually phased out)
02:50<tipsyTentacle>Same with Vietnam pre-colonial era
02:51<Flygon>This meant that even if the people from the three countries couldn't SPEAK to eachother, they were mutually intelligible written
02:51<Flygon>Note: I'm not a linguistics expert
02:51<Flygon>I just pick these things up due to curiousity
02:52<Flygon>And take my advice with salt. Plenty of it.
02:52<Flygon>tipsyTentacle: I don't know too much about Vietnam, myself
02:52<Flygon>Nor the language
02:52<tipsyTentacle>As someone from the region, I think what you said is correct.
02:52<Flygon>I understand it's related closely to Chinese region languages tho
02:52<Flygon>Gotcha
02:53<Flygon>Either way, I'm Australian
02:53<tipsyTentacle>Vietnamese is a weird one. It deviates from Klmer, I believe, but there are lots of Chinese loan words and prior to French colonialism, was written with Han/Chinese characters.
02:53<Flygon>My real extent of my language knowledge is having a vague telling of it someone is speaking either Korean or Mandarin on the Train :B
02:53<Flygon>Klmer?
02:54<tipsyTentacle>Khmer*
02:55<Flygon>Hmm
02:55*Flygon looks these up
02:55<tipsyTentacle>Um, a language primarily in Southeast Asia. I don't know much about it. It might be extinct?
02:55<Flygon>Yeah, might explain why I've never heard of it xP
02:55<Flygon>Most of my interaction with people in the region tends to be Pinoys and Malaysians
02:56<Flygon>It's kind of maddening playing the MMOs with them, because...
02:56<Flygon>Most have incredibly good English
02:56<Flygon>But will tip back to Tagalog the slightest leeway they get. Which leaves me out in the cold. :B
02:56<Flygon>#australiantimezoneproblems
02:56<tipsyTentacle>Hehe that's actually fairly amusing
02:57<tipsyTentacle>I remember my friend was in a WoW guild that had a lot of German players and chat was divided between German and Englishh
02:57<Flygon>And with the art side of things... it's incredibly frustrating trying to work with Japanese speakers
02:57<Flygon>Because the problem is...
02:57<Flygon>We really REALLY want to work with eachother, and to talk
02:57<Flygon>But getting good translations happening is nigh impossible :D
02:58<Flygon>Particulary frustrating when we want to exchange art advice @_@
02:58<Flygon>Heheh...
02:58<Flygon>When Gravity tried to extend Ragnarok Online to Europe initially
02:58<tipsyTentacle>Yeah, translation software usually don't do English-Japanese well. The languages are... fairly different, to say the least.
02:58<Flygon>They gave the server operator the AEGIS software
02:59<Flygon>But instead of handing the euRO operators the same AEGIS software iRO used (American English), they gave them jRO (Japan, obviously)'s software in GERMAN
02:59<Flygon>Not only was the entire internal AEGIS software in Japanese, they were given zero provisions for offering the game in other extremely obviously important languages :D
03:00<Flygon>Anyway, the service crashed and burned a few years later, the operator was basically "Blame Gravity, they fucked us over", and the playerbase (prodiminantly German for obvious reasons) felt a bit bitter over the whole thing
03:00<tipsyTentacle>Ouch, sounds harsh.
03:01<Flygon>Anyway, it gets reincernated later, in plain English (sure, non-English speakers play, but it's easier for a Spanish guy to muddle through than German :U), annnd, yeay
03:01<Flygon>yeah*
03:01<Flygon>(plain, as in, using iRO's translation using American English)
03:02<tipsyTentacle>hehe interesting.
03:02<Flygon>But... yeah. One of the stupidest translation trainwreck stories in history
03:02<tipsyTentacle>Gaming* history
03:02<tipsyTentacle>I am sure there have been wars over errors in translations
03:02<tipsyTentacle>:P
03:02<Flygon>True hahaha
03:02<Flygon>Also, regarding the software translation thing for JPN-ENG
03:02<Flygon>The issue wasn't the software
03:02<Flygon>The issue was that the HUMANS we were using didn't do art :D
03:03<tipsyTentacle>Oh! So lots of jargon?
03:03<Flygon>Eeyup :D
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03:03<tipsyTentacle>Ouch. ];
03:03<Flygon>Buuut... yeah
03:04<Flygon>Advised him to talk to a Japanese artist about what I was trying to help him with
03:04*Flygon scratches head
03:04<tipsyTentacle>Also, a random note, but Khmer is also known as Cambodian, as in the Cambodian language.
03:05<Flygon>Oooh
03:05<Flygon>oooooooooh
03:05<Flygon>Ooooh
03:05<Flygon>That's why I've heard of it before
03:05<Flygon>It rang bells
03:05<Flygon>But... derp
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03:42<Wolf01>o/
03:42<tipsyTentacle>Hello.
03:57<Flygon>'eyy
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05:12<planetmaker>\o
05:13<tipsyTentacle>Oi
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06:20<Eddi|zuHause><Flygon> Yeah, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken as seperate languages <-- so they write the same word, but pronounce it completely different?
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06:21<Flygon>iirc
06:21<Flygon>Pretty much, yes.
06:22<Flygon>Each letter from Chinese script basically represents a individual word/concept, no matter how it's spoken
06:22<tipsyTentacle>Pretty much
06:23<Flygon>This is also pretty much why the Chinese Government started introducing a phonetic script around the early 1900s... because it would've been a nuciance to create new words. But I don't know Chinese languages well enough to be certain.
06:23<tipsyTentacle>bopomofo~<3
06:24<tipsyTentacle>Also known as Zhuyin or Zhuyin fuhao
06:24<tipsyTentacle>It was created by the Nationalist government for phonetic notation
06:25<tipsyTentacle>It isn't used outside of children books and dictionaries (in Taiwan, the bastion of the Nationalist government)
06:26<tipsyTentacle>The mainland Communist government uses pinyin as its system for phonetic notation.
06:26*Flygon nod
06:27<Flygon>Again, I'm in no way a linguist, so, don't trust me for the specificis
06:27<Flygon>specifics*
06:28<tipsyTentacle>Again, this is only because I grew up in an East Asian community (while being East Asian myself), so... yeah. I have personal experience with both systems, mew.
06:29<tipsyTentacle>The kid books in the "traditional chinese" section of my local library has bopomofo in it.
06:33<tipsyTentacle>Anyhow, the phonetic script wasn't made to replace the characters, I believe. If I remember right, there were lots of people against using a phonetic script (and a lot of people opposed to simplications of the characters).
06:34<tipsyTentacle>I would guess that it was made to make teaching a standardized version of Mandarin to the entire nation much easier.
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07:49<fjb>Moin
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>Mahlzeit
08:04<fjb>Gute Idee!
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08:09*fjb should find some time to play OpenTTD again.
08:12*tipsyTentacle approves of that plan.
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09:44<Wolf01>i don't know why suddenly came to my mind this: teacher "you shouldn't ask for 'a glass of water', but 'water in a glass, please'"
09:48<planetmaker>:)
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09:53<Eddi|zuHause>that. of course, is pure nonsense.
09:56<V453000>I also think that it is shit on a heap
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10:47<Wolf01>i think i'll purchase other 5 emerald express sets, just to make 2 trains with 3 cars each one
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12:40<Eddi|zuHause>in my mind, less than 4 wagons is not a proper train...
12:42<frosch123>so most dmus are no proper trains?
12:44<V453000>slugs are people too
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12:44<frosch123>did you draw slug biters yet?
12:45<frosch123>resp. how often per day to you bring up that topic to convince people?
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes.
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>and slugs are way scarier than biters :p
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12:56<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: what when there are many axles?
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: there's almost a don't-care about number of axles
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>also, slugs don't have axles :p
12:58<@Rubidium>http://ekladata.com/v_bF2ZryNs3YGpqTD_uSw1Ifjy0.jpg ;)
12:59<V453000>slug biters are coming for sure, I just didnt start them yet :P
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13:01<frosch123>haha, your graphics skills have definitely a train background :p
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that's pretty much a "no" on the train scale :p
13:02<V453000>yeah probably not :) at least not anytime soon
13:02<V453000>got enough stuff to do for the game already
13:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?4,4369686 <- that's an even nicer question about... is it a train... or isn't it?
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is probably a train.
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13:06<@Rubidium>though... it only has four wagons
13:07<@Rubidium>the rest can be powered
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14:03<repower15>hi all is trhere a listing where i can see stuck trains
14:03<repower15>i now got 400 running and somtimes they pile up
14:03<repower15>only ones a year i got notice
14:03<repower15>maybe a flag i can indicate on my own scripting
14:04<@Terkhen>hello
14:04<repower15>hi ter
14:05<repower15>its then a miss to clean all up
14:06<repower15>i folow the max load available but thats on high traffic not a good one as water is not a high value or things like that
14:07<FLHerne>repower15: In the map, there's an option that shows the positions of trains
14:07<FLHerne>A big clump of trains that aren't moving is fairly conspicuous
14:07<repower15>i know but on a 12024 map its not that good view
14:08<repower15>1024 ;-)
14:08<repower15>FLHerne: you may also know thar rome on canvas is fairly limited
14:08<repower15>that room
14:09<FLHerne>Yeah, it's not ideal
14:09<FLHerne>Sorting by profit in the vehicle list can work, but takes a while
14:10<FLHerne>to be noticeable
14:10<repower15>i will check that
14:10<repower15>if a cross map route piles up then you are in notice float
14:12<repower15>also as in Railroadtycoon a realy good feature is a list of townes thar need things Eqal to Openttd woudt be a list of growing time
14:13<repower15>so you can see this town is in good shape and hase alot of things othere might be delivered more
14:13<repower15>im now playing since 0.5 2games a real humen year
14:15<repower15>is there a mailinglist to get some user reqestet feature for futher vertions
14:16<repower15>or for anouncing better behavier on some build ins
14:17<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/Community <- that lists everything
14:18<repower15>thanks
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14:18<repower15>most angry is that townes do not take water or food if the auto builder puts some waterwell or food plant near
14:19<repower15>BYE im off for today
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15:35<@Terkhen>good night
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18:31<Wolf01>'night
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23:08<greeter>greetings all
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 23 00:00:00 2015