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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-11-01

---Logopened Sun Nov 01 00:00:13 2015
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00:27<michaelrul3s>Is anyone else having problems loading the wiki?
00:28<michaelrul3s>The part that fucks me over is this "This site uses HTTP Strict Transport Security (HSTS) to specify that Firefox only connect to it securely. As a result, it is not possible to add an exception for this certificate."
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01:13<michaelrul3s>Welp, I appreciated the response
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03:45<andythenorth>Alberth: I considered siting industries on opposite sides of the map
03:45<andythenorth>I can’t figure out how to avoid pathological cases though :)
03:45<andythenorth>e.g. no water on one side, for ports
03:45<andythenorth>snow on another side, for farms
03:46<@Alberth>drop the restriction for the first 1-3 ?
03:46<@Alberth>for ports etc, I wouldn't do it, too many restrictions already
03:47<@Alberth>or you have to make it part of the map requirements for that economy, but too fragile, I guess
03:48<andythenorth>would simply enforcing a large minimum distance have the same effect?
03:48<andythenorth>most industry types already enforce a min. distance primary <-> secondary
03:48<andythenorth>usually 16 tiles or so
03:57<@Alberth>but then the industry still spreads over the entire map, mostly?
04:00<andythenorth>remind me what your suggestion was? :)
04:00<andythenorth>I was afk yesterday sorry, only saw it very later yesterday
04:04<@Alberth>somewhat trying to make the map not the same everywhere
04:04<@Alberth>ie no matter where you look at the map, the same kind of connections can be made
04:04<@Alberth>map size just decides how often you can do that
04:07<@Alberth>hehe, coal mines north and power plants south, I can see the comments "he, I have to make a track all across my 4096x4096 map to make a connection" :p
04:08<@Alberth>"smaller map economy" :p
04:12<andythenorth>newgrf can check map co-ords
04:12<andythenorth>during construction
04:13<andythenorth>I do wonder if it’s better done by GS though
04:15<@Alberth>firs_gs :)
04:16<andythenorth>industry IDs are stable enough :P
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05:01<__ln__>you again
05:01<Wolf01>yeah, always me
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05:05<__ln__>are wolves indexed with a 0-based or 1-based index?
05:06<Wolf01>looks like 0-based
05:06<Wolf01>a search on google returned a lot of wolf00
05:07<Wolf01>but i'm wolf01 because wolf/wolf1 were already taken in in 1998 :P
05:08<__ln__>tough :P
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06:20<Wolf01>with a leg too!
06:21<frosch123>for a second i thought i had to escape the \ :)
06:22<@Rubidium>only the / at the begin, right?
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06:23<Wolf01>nah, just press ctrl along with enter
06:23<Wolf01>at least on mirc
06:23<frosch123>interesting, same on konvesation
06:24*Rubidium is sad you didn't do that with something more dangerous
06:25<Wolf01>like /nickserv identify mypassword?
06:25<frosch123>all dangerous stuff starts with @
06:25<frosch123>and i doubt it works for that
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>/amsg you all suck
06:26<@Rubidium>frosch123: IMHO /part and/or /quit are more than dangerous enough
06:29<frosch123>how many native speakers understand "Andean" without further context?
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>native speakers of andean? :p
06:40<@Rubidium>frosch123: probably as many as European
06:40<@Rubidium>I for one wouldn't know what you would mean by European without a bit of context
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06:43<Wolf01> oh, so it's how does it work
06:44<Wolf01>i always thought you have to memorise them all
06:48<@Rubidium>Wolf01: except... grow -> grew, flow -> flowed, fly -> flew
06:48<Pikka>show -> show :)
06:49<frosch123>pikka -> pokka -> pukka
06:49<@Rubidium>Wolf01: apply it to slew ;)
06:50<Wolf01>oh, that one, i remember that one
06:51<Pikka>good old strong verbs
06:53<@Rubidium>and for fun... you also need to know the context
06:53<@Rubidium>relay -> relaid -> relaid *or* relay -> relayed -> relayed (depending on the meaning of the word)
06:54<@Rubidium>also, your grammar proportion doesn't work on draw - drew - drawn
06:54<SpComb>or relayd(8)
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>the most misleading is get vs. forget
06:55<frosch123>@seen lordaro
06:55<@DorpsGek>frosch123: lordaro was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 18 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <LordAro> it's been a while
06:55<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27430 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2015-11-01 12:55:45 +0100 )
06:55<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
06:55<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: [Makefile] Game script directory and compat*.nut were never installed on *nix (r27399)
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>that's a cool "last words" :p
06:56<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: There are two different availability conditions for fdatasync in the manpage. Use them both, since at least on some MinGW versions one is not enough (r27389)
06:56<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: win32 sound driver failed to report errors (r27383)
06:56<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
06:56<Wolf01>eh.. and "go", i still have troubles for the right past tense to use
06:56<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: what's so misleading about (for)get, (for)got, (for)got(ten)?
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the "ten" part
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: because you're tempted to rule it as "(for)gotten", which is AE
06:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27431 /branches/1.5 (8 files in 4 dirs) (2015-11-01 12:59:17 +0100 )
06:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
06:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Consider text and icon sizes when drawing the client list [FS#6265] (r27421)
06:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: GrowTownAtRoad sometimes returned false, even when a house was built [FS#6362] (r27420)
06:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: CmdSellRailWagon did not revert all actions properly when no orderlist could be allocated [FS#6369] (r27419)
06:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: if it helps you, there's a much much longer list of "strong" verbs in german :p
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>(and a fairly short one of truly irregular)
07:01<Wolf01>no thanks, i already have enough trying to speak italian correctly
07:03<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27432 /branches/1.5 (13 files in 2 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:03:13 +0100 )
07:03<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
07:03<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: "forget > verb (forgets, forgetting, forgot; past participle forgotten or chiefly US forgot)" (Oxford Dictionary), which seems to imply that forgotten is BE and forgot is AE
07:03<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: When selecting a refit cargo for orders, do not check whether the vehicle is in a depot or station, and do not ask whether the vehicle currently allows station-refitting. Also hide the refit cost for orders, it is not predictable (r27428)
07:03<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Use the NewGRF railtype sorting order in the infrastructure window (r27427)
07:03<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Crash when switching to or taking over companies, when an order window of a vehicle of the new company was opened. Now close those windows [FS#5842] (r27425)
07:03<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yes, but "gotten" is AE, vs. "got" BE
07:07<@Rubidium>my Oxford dictionary claims that the main "spelling" is Brittish, with variants in other spellings noted. That would imply that, according to Oxford forgotten is BE and forgot is AE
07:08<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: nothing is worse than the german spelling of "Nische"
07:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27433 /branches/1.5 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:09:41 +0100 )
07:09<@DorpsGek>[1.5] -Update: Documentation
07:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27434 /tags/1.5.3-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2015-11-01 13:11:51 +0100 )
07:11<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.5.3-RC1
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07:32<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: is that part of the spelling reform?
07:32<frosch123>no, they forgot it
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: because i would have spelled it "Niche" (from french)
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07:34<frosch123>i would have expected that it is spelled "Niesche" since 1996
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>but this is definitely territory where my spelling heuristic fails
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08:01<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.5.3-RC1, 1.5.2
08:01-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.5.3-RC1, 1.5.2 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | if this channel is really spammy
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10:36<drac_boy>anyone from uk here atm?
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10:44<drac_boy>hi juzz or is that juzza? heh :)
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11:17<LadyHawk>< uk, can't exctly say im here tho, idling around =)
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11:19<drac_boy>heh, not havig a grand time online myself so kinda was just wondering if uk even had any 1-car or 2-car emu during the 1940-1970's period roughly? :)
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11:28<LadyHawk>ahhh can't help you there sorry.. only moved over there 11 years ago
11:28<LadyHawk>google will know =)
11:29<drac_boy>yeah its ok, was just curious about modelling in general .. I'll keep checking some more websites later .. maybe after I eat :)
11:30<drac_boy>might find something from SR if I recall right that they had a rather early 3rd rail system
11:30<LadyHawk>hehe, good luck with your digging
11:30<drac_boy>hope you having fun not being too lazy btw :P
11:30<drac_boy>heh ty
11:30<LadyHawk>im having fun being lazy
11:30<drac_boy>silly lady :p
11:30<drac_boy>anyway bye for till next time? ;)
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11:32<@Alberth>done playing with the mines? :)
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>minesweeper? :p
11:36<@Alberth>massive transport of coal :)
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i know :p
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13:16<@Alberth>it worked :)
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13:37<andythenorth>I ask for forum suggestions, and for once there are none :P
13:37<andythenorth>how rare
13:39<@Alberth>perhaps wrong forum? :p
13:44<andythenorth>possibly :P
13:45<frosch123>maybe they got too excited about the release :p
13:50*andythenorth wonders if GS can manipulate town rating
13:50<andythenorth>or otherwise prevent building
13:51<andythenorth>got an idea for a ‘corruption’ GS
13:51<@Alberth>considering the explosion of city builder scripts, my guess is yes
13:51<andythenorth>towns have random, highly variable mafia / bribe requirements
13:51<andythenorth>and also there is a national government that randomly clamps down on corruption
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13:52<frosch123>andythenorth: gs can remove company property, as long as there is no vehicle ni the way
13:52<andythenorth>is Monopoly (board game) played outside of English-speaking countries?
13:52<frosch123>you can bulldoze rails, roads and canals
13:52<@Alberth>let me guess, both sides think my company is a target? :)
13:52<@Alberth>andythenorth: yes
13:53<andythenorth>there is a property tax card in the chance cards in monopoly
13:53<frosch123>andythenorth: it's the most famous terribly-designed board game, yes
13:53<andythenorth>which can wipe you out
13:53<andythenorth>it’s bad yes
13:53<andythenorth>allegedly designed to promote socialism, unless that’s an urban myth
13:53<frosch123>everyone who tries to explain good and bad gameplay, uses monopoly as a bad example :)
13:53<@Alberth>hmm, I was too young to notice such things :p
13:54<andythenorth>when you connect a town you get a GS dialogue, with options for bribes
13:54<andythenorth>some towns want more than others
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13:56<andythenorth>you can choose to be ethical or not
13:56<andythenorth>and every so often a corruption investigation might be triggered
13:56<andythenorth>you lose a lot of money or infrastructure if you’re found to be highly corrupt
13:59<@Alberth>wouldn't work for me, but ymmv
14:02<andythenorth>doesn’t work for me either
14:02<andythenorth>idea came about because I was thinking of post-colonial FIRS economy
14:03<frosch123>do a pre-colonial gs :p
14:04<frosch123>the map is empty except for some start items, and the gs adds towns and industries in the directions you expand
14:05<andythenorth>I want to do that
14:05<andythenorth>“Conquer the West” or something
14:06<andythenorth>I have too many unfinished newgrfs right now, and I don’t want to do Squirrel on my own :P
14:06<frosch123>so do a firewater economy
14:06<frosch123>farms don't give you anything, until you delivered them with firewater once
14:07<frosch123>single-delivery supplies
14:07<andythenorth>what game is that from? o_O
14:07<frosch123>no idea, just imagine the farm has always been there, but they do not care about your weird trains
14:08<frosch123>at start only harbors supply cargo
14:08<frosch123>one of them is firewater (1 item per month or something silly)
14:08<frosch123>you have to deliver that to some industry, which only then starts production
14:09<frosch123>possibly you do not even see the production potential in advance
14:09<frosch123>it adds some weird micromanagement to expansion, maybe it sucks, maybe it is cool
14:09<frosch123>may need disabling of aircraft though
14:09<frosch123>else it is pointless
14:11<frosch123>maybe you find a better name than "firewater" though :p
14:11<planetmaker>liquid fire :P
14:11<frosch123>maybe "harvesting licence"?
14:15<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> allegedly designed to promote socialism, unless that’s an urban myth <-- well, that was some earlier version before it got popular and unbalanced
14:19<andythenorth>frosch123: is that what the ‘workers industries’ grf does? o_O
14:19*andythenorth hasn’t played it
14:20<frosch123>me neither
14:20<frosch123>but i don't think so
14:20<frosch123>all grfs i have seen require constant supply of supplies
14:20<@Alberth>it makes pax work for their existence, afaik
14:20<frosch123>in this case you have an extremly rare resource, which you only need to supply once though
14:21<frosch123>if one harbour supplies 12 units per year
14:21<@Alberth>like uranium bars, produced once every 10-15 years :p
14:21<frosch123>you can micromanage some vehicle with 1 capacity to activate 12 industries in that year
14:22<frosch123>there are no real means to stockpile such cargo, unless you use the 100% cheat
14:23<frosch123>but if you deliver all to one industry, they are all gone, and you cannot activate any new industries
14:24<frosch123>but, meh, may also be just annoying :p
14:27*andythenorth files it away as an idea
14:27<andythenorth>I’m going to try an economy where ~half the industry types aren’t built at map gen
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>you don't have an order "load only 1 piece of cargo", though
14:28<andythenorth>so you have to earn money on exports, then build them yourself
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>didn't i suggest that years ago for a "development country" economy?
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15:11<andythenorth>could be time to do it
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15:21<@Terkhen>good night
15:22<@Alberth>good night Terkhen
15:22<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: can you remember any more ideas? o_O
15:22<andythenorth>bye Terkhen
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: no, unless you give clues to it :p
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>no, really, most of my memories are tied to a specific context, and thus are almost impossible to access from outside that context.
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15:26<andythenorth>it possibly came up when I was designing Heart of Darkness?
15:26<andythenorth>(which I’m now replacing, no longer happy about it)
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>why replace it, if you can just make a new one?
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>maybe other people are more happy about your stuff than you are? :p
15:33<@Alberth>that's nothing new :p
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15:40<andythenorth>in this case I don’t want to use the name anymore
15:41<andythenorth>I have read a lot of Conrad, but I have also understood, that for some Africans, what he writes is unquestionably racist and offensive
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>then call it "colonial"?
15:42<andythenorth>something like that yes
15:42<andythenorth>it’s also a bit unsatisfactory to play, it’s a few more industries & cargos than ‘basic’
15:43<andythenorth>but not enough to be ‘complex'
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>that i cannot judge
15:43<andythenorth>the mechanic of ‘all cargo goes to ports’ gets old fast
15:43<andythenorth>although it did cause ports to get added to FIRS, which has been beneficial
15:47*andythenorth also enjoyed this video
15:47<andythenorth>NSFW, probably
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16:06<Eddi|zuHause>i have difficulty understanding her
16:07<frosch123>it gets better after 10 minutes
16:07<frosch123>or i got used to the voice and noise
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16:17*andythenorth bed
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17:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'm still not quite sure what her point was, except for "don't give a man a fish, teach him how to fish"
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 02 00:00:14 2015