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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-11-21

---Logopened Sat Nov 21 00:00:43 2015
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03:21*andythenorth makes logging trucks
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06:06<andythenorth>is cat
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06:22<Flygon>Is Don
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07:46<Mazur>This looks interesting. Anyone know where the newgrf can be found?
07:53<@Alberth>could have a look in bananas, otherwise, probably not
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08:09<Mazur>No BaNaNaS.
08:10<Mazur>Hey, I got no Bananas, I got no Bananas, to day.
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08:12<@Alberth>hi hi, andy
08:16<Mazur>Since I have no artistic connections over the net but here, a bit of "artistic" work of me:
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08:19*Mazur feels quite overwhelmed by all the praise and admiration.
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08:22<@Alberth>andy leaves quite often at random times :)
08:23<@Alberth>but euhm, not sure what to make of your work, the prtrait is perhaps a bit too invisible?
08:23<Mazur>Just to avoid my previous utterance.
08:24<@Alberth>the channel is logged :p
08:24<Mazur>Alberth: it is a playing board for Thud, hence the barely visible portrait, it's only to refer to/remind of Pratchett.
08:25<Mazur>The dquares are the important bit.
08:25<Mazur>squares, as well.
08:26<_dp_>Mazur, that grf is called either novapolis or luukland special event
08:27<Mazur>Yes, been looking everywhere for it, but caan;t seem to find it. Not in Bananas, not in Crawler.
08:27<Mazur>Hoped one of you might have an inkling.
08:27<_dp_>it is on bananas, search for "specail event"
08:27<Mazur>With type?
08:30<_dp_>hm, doesn't seem to show up if you search ingame though...
08:31<_dp_>only on website
08:40<@Alberth>could be limited to some specific game version
08:40<Mazur>Ha! Figured how to countereffect the fading of the board itself due to making the top layer (the board) somewhat opaque to reveal the image shining through. Add another, fully opaque, underneath, as well.
08:41<Mazur>Yes, I know, possibly only on Luukland/Novapolis/Citymania binaries.
08:41<Mazur>Can't hurt to try,though.
08:41<@Alberth>they couldn't use normal clients?
08:42<@Alberth>what I meant is that the newgrf may be limited to eg 1.3 only
08:42<_dp_>it works fine with current version
08:42<Mazur>Well, hteyn used it end of 2014...
08:43<_dp_>and citymania client is compatible with vanila openttd
08:43<@Alberth>no idea why it doesn't show in-game then
08:44<_dp_>mb it's somehow not marked as compatible on bananas?
08:44<@Alberth>_dp_: likely
08:44<Mazur>Newer version, with more Pterry, as well.
08:44<andythenorth>does this give me % loaded for a vehicle? o_O var[0x61, 0, 0x0000FFFF, 0xBC]*100/var[0x61, 0, 0x0000FFFF, 0xBA]
08:45<@Alberth>load * 100 / max_load will
08:46<@Alberth>ie load = max_load gives 100
08:46<@Alberth>load = 0 gives 0
08:46<Mazur>Alberth: I like how I found oug how to cut alternating squares from a single image of a wood surface, and combine two of those for the board.
08:46<@Alberth>but I don't know all the magic numbers between []
08:47<@Alberth>Mazur: there's fascinating puzzles everywhere :)
08:47<andythenorth>me neither :)
08:48<Mazur>Yes, but for where I'm coming from, this is high computer art. And I followed through.
08:49<@Alberth>there is no section about "var" in the manual?
08:50<andythenorth>I am too lazy too look them up :)
08:50<andythenorth>it _appears_ to work :)
08:50<@Alberth>I wonder what the comma means, tbh
08:50<andythenorth>it’s probably var, shift, mask at a guess
08:50<@Alberth>maybe it's a grf primitive
08:51<andythenorth>it’s all in the nml docs :)
08:51<andythenorth>I even have them open, somewhere, in a tab :P
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09:23<drac_boy>eddi you any chance still awake? ;) heh
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09:42*andythenorth ponders
09:43<andythenorth>shame more people don’t make GS
09:43<andythenorth>or at least, non-City-Growth GS
09:46<Flygon>I'd love if Gamescripts could found towns
09:49<drac_boy>hi aussie :)
09:51<drac_boy>heh hows you anyway?
09:53<drac_boy>and flygon you want see an interesting one-time experimental emu with a nice sculptured nose?
09:54<Flygon>I'm watching Red Dwarf atm tho xP
09:56<drac_boy>and lacking understanding italy language I so far can tell that it seem they would have used what they found from that test unit to eventually make more than ten sets of these
09:57<drac_boy>I got to say the test unit looks a bit ... different :)
09:57<drac_boy>its not often you'll find a cone-nose dual-end unit (instead of a more flat body style)
10:00<Flygon>Only thing I really know the Pendos for is their utter initial failure in Finrand
10:03<drac_boy>flygon heh well actually the swiss people eventually stopped scheduling the ETR 470 anymore .. even although italy (or at least a neighbouring country I forgot which one) was still running the same sets on their own routes next to the border
10:04<Flygon>Finland DOES still run the Pendos
10:04<Flygon>They've just had the hell modified out of them
10:05<drac_boy>flygon btw it appears pendo built the ICE T for germany ..
10:05<drac_boy>wiki seem to only mention some axle crack faults but not much else so I dunno if they somehow are reliable or not
10:06<drac_boy>btw did finland use a lot of bailing wires and liberal amount of tape+putter?
10:06<drac_boy>just joking heh :P
10:06<Flygon>I'd argue that axle cracks are a general indicator
10:07<Flygon>Finland prolly did what Victoria did with the Siemens
10:07<Flygon>Rip their guts out and put new ones in
10:07<Flygon>Siemens sets
10:07<drac_boy>hmm which one?
10:10<drac_boy>ah metro I see
10:11<oskari89>Actually, the things that were/are problematic with Finnish Sm3/Pendolino, are: Tilting system, as it was/is still poorly shielded against snow and ice, amongst other failures in that system, batteries and the couplings
10:11<oskari89>Last two are already done, first one is still in progress afaik
10:13<drac_boy>flygon there is also that long-overdue and still-very-troublesome (last I saw an article about it in europe magazine a few months ago anyhow) IC4 sets built by ansaldo and some of these "re-built again" by bombardier and I think another unrelated company too
10:14<oskari89> the new couling doesn't look too good, but it does work a lot better than the old one
10:14<drac_boy>flygon yeah .. theres still a lot of court proceedings going on especially over refusing to pay for trains at least once and one time an agreement to basically build n train at n/2 price (aka half of it for free)
10:15<drac_boy>I'm still wondering when it will finally come to an end considering the IC4 was *supposed* to have been running by 2004
10:15<drac_boy>(I don't mean just the first train .. the order was supposed to be all completed by then)
10:16<drac_boy>sure does make you wonder about it with big eyes doesn't it flygon
10:16<Flygon>Mate, I've seen enough ridiculousness to kinda grownumb
10:16<drac_boy>oskari umm it looks like someone's ass pointing at you? (no offence meant btw)
10:17<drac_boy>flygon np..just had to be sure
10:18<oskari89>Yes it looks bad
10:19<drac_boy>flygon also hmm I forgot the name but I recall there were some dmu or emu set (small one...2-5 cars each I believe) that worked well...if you did not try couple them together (buggered MU computer system apparently) .. eventually they *could* MU only if a dedicated locomotive was hauling them
10:19<drac_boy>was probably 2014 or late 2013 anyhow ^
10:19<oskari89>Original look was like that:
10:20<oskari89>Which did look good, but didn't work at winter conditions
10:20<drac_boy>oskari well at least that looks better with the cover on
10:20<drac_boy>ah :)
10:21<drac_boy>oh yeah flygon btw I kinda forgot to save the link but you mind posting the name of that tiny little 20kph (I believe thats what you mentioned?) shunter from australia?
10:22<Flygon>The Railtractor?
10:22<drac_boy>well it was blue with angled hood? :)
10:22<Flygon>Or the one that went a bit faster than the Railtractor?
10:23<Flygon>Okay not the railtractor
10:23<drac_boy>we were talking about the Y and N locomotives then you mentioned that tiny 20kph one just shortly before I left
10:23<Flygon> This one?
10:23<Flygon>I forgot
10:24<Flygon>I'm about to sleep, tbh
10:24<Flygon>Tired as hell
10:25<drac_boy>ah heh yep...little bug :)
10:26<drac_boy>flygon btw you want know what that reminded me of again when I saw it yesterday? :P
10:26<Flygon>A 1px wide loco in OpenTTD?
10:27<drac_boy>NS Class 200 aka the "Sik"
10:27<@Alberth>1km/h train is useless in openttd
10:28<drac_boy>the large space behind cab is where the crane would had gone if it was fitted btw
10:28<drac_boy>these thing didn't even have airbrake
10:29<Flygon>Alberth: It can go 16km/h
10:29<Flygon>Just limited to 1km/h while going through the washing machine
10:29<@Alberth>like that is more useful :p
10:29<Flygon>drac_boy: British as hell it looks
10:30<drac_boy>flygon well the man who ran the builder company also ran Fokker Aerospace too .. so I wouldn't be surprised if he had been britian born
10:31<Flygon>I gotta go
10:31<drac_boy>bye flygon, have fun sleeping till next time ;)
10:32<drac_boy>oskari what you think of the Dv16 anyway? (seeing you must like VR trains)
10:34<oskari89>Dv16? Hadn't had seen those in their daily use. I have seen them in museum trains
10:34<oskari89>And on pictures :P
10:35<drac_boy>heh well a 'train' of a few of them was seen last year ... but theres still a few being maintained tho
10:35<drac_boy>they seem to be still going .. even as the number dwindles
10:35<oskari89>Two are actually alive yet
10:36<oskari89>*one is
10:37<drac_boy>the dv12 on the other hand...seem to be all over the place :P
10:37<oskari89>I think the most intresting one is Dr18, of the Fenniarail :)
10:37<drac_boy>fenniarail? hmm let me see
10:38<oskari89>First finnish private operator
10:40<drac_boy>ah that almost looks like the vossloh diesel-hydraulic locomotive they showed at the yearly rail expo one or two years ago
10:40<oskari89>That is based on CME3, fully modernized by CZ Loko
10:41<drac_boy>cme3? uhh let me guess, russia?
10:42<oskari89>Poland actually
10:42<drac_boy>figured, I've became a little bit familiar with the russia naming system
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10:44<drac_boy>theres always the 2T** series too .. especially the green one with old 2-stroke engines .. these seem to love black exhaust cloud all the times :)
10:44<drac_boy>and heh there is always an Alco RSD in russia too (american locomotive in russia eh?)
10:44<oskari89>Dr18 is 744.7f subversion of 744.7
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10:49<drac_boy>oskari mind you one thing I do find interesting about finland tho is...they're one of the very few people that are still happily running wood-burning locomotives in frequent special services ... like eg this one
10:50<drac_boy>for usa I only know of one or two american (wild west dated) 4-4-0 that are still wood fired but everything else is only coal or the small number of oil
10:50<oskari89>Yes there is, few operators
10:51<drac_boy>of course I also recall at least two short movies that used wood fired steam locomotives as part of the slapstick .. go figure with that
10:53<drac_boy>one of them .. well .. believe this .. the man toss various pieces into firebox .. he stops at one piece and look at it and see it has large knots in it .. he shrugs thinking its no good for the fire .. throws it right out of the cab without looking .. and it KO's an operator who was waiting to hand him a revised meet order
10:53<Eddi|zuHause><drac_boy> eddi you any chance still awake? ;) heh <-- highlighting works way better when you use my actual name...
10:53<drac_boy>you can probably guess what happened soon anyway :)
10:54<__ln___>you have a highlight for Johannes?
10:57<oskari89>Dr18 is intresting locomotive, because Co'Co and AC/DC transmission (DC traction motors)
10:58<oskari89>Last time DC transmission and Co'Co' arrangement was used in Finland, was Dr12 in the 1950's/1960's
10:58<drac_boy>oskari...umm why is there no train for that cz 774 unit? ;)
10:59<sim-al2>DC generators started to disappear around the 1960's to 1970's
10:59<oskari89>They are on testing phase :P
10:59<sim-al2>In favor of alternators with rectification
10:59<oskari89>Yes, that Dr18 has modern AC alternator with rectification
11:00<@Alberth>moin pm, between all the engines here :)
11:00<drac_boy>oskari either way this is one of the few things I think of when the topic of older russia diesels even comes up heh
11:01<sim-al2>Generators were reaching the peak of practical design, and some locomotives like the GP30 had very complex electrical systems to achieve their maximum power output
11:01*drac_boy pokes sim-a12 (hi american)
11:02<drac_boy>good sleep?
11:02<@Alberth>he's clearly not sleeping :p
11:02<drac_boy>lol alberth
11:05<sim-al2>Or the M62 locomotives, built with the Eastern European loading gauge:
11:06<drac_boy>sim-a12 either way I mentioned it to flygon but you might have a comment or two on the sculptured nose style for this experimental unit
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: maybe i would, if anybody ever called me that :p
11:10<drac_boy>and sim-a12 mm .. I don't mind no dc generator .. I still prefer all-dc electricals tho, but to our own :)
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11:12<Wolf01>hi o/
11:12<drac_boy>hi sleepy wolf01 ;)
11:13<Wolf01>yes, now i'm sleepy
11:14<drac_boy>alberth well I guess you've found someone who is sleeping then? ;)
11:17<@planetmaker>hehe, hiding successfully, I guess
11:25<sim-al2>The GP30s either got scrapped or converted to alternators because the systems were unreliable with age
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11:47<drac_boy>anyway going for now as usual :)
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12:08<Mazur>Surreal. I'm following a train with it's window lining up to the map.
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12:43<andythenorth>can someone figure out how I can export seafood in a FIRS economy, ta
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27453 trunk/src/lang/italian.txt (2015-11-21 19:45:08 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
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13:59<@Alberth>call it "goods" and bring it to a port?
14:03<andythenorth>or ‘food’
14:03<andythenorth>‘fish fingers'
14:07<andythenorth>where’s Eddi when I need him :P
14:18*andythenorth wonders what the vehicle factory should accept
14:18<andythenorth>currently ‘vehicle parts’ and ‘metal’
14:18<andythenorth>seems not enough inputs tbh
14:18<andythenorth>maybe I split ‘vehicle parts’ and ‘tyres'?
14:18<andythenorth>or make it also need manufacturing supplies?
14:22<@Alberth>ha,manuf supplies as regular cargo :)
14:22*andythenorth considers a detailed industrieal economy :)
14:22<andythenorth>I wonder about vehicle parts, tyres, mnsp
14:22<andythenorth>for a basic economy, that’s probably enough
14:23<@Alberth>seems that way
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15:04<andythenorth>Alberth: think we’ll ever fix Busy Bee repeating goals? o_O
15:06<@Alberth>I somewhat collected issues and wishes
15:07<@Alberth>if you have others to add, please feel free
15:07<@Alberth>as for implementation, not sure what to do; I am considering to start BB2
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15:08<andythenorth>v2 is always the best :P
15:08*andythenorth nearly finished FIRS v2
15:08<andythenorth>then started more :P
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15:21<andythenorth>Alberth: I think it would be nice to have a small range of non-cargo goals
15:21<@Alberth>small range?
15:22<andythenorth>maybe 1-3 other types of goal?
15:22<@Alberth>oh, like, make a million? :)
15:22<andythenorth>side challenges
15:22<@Alberth>build a mountain
15:22<andythenorth>but the main goals remain cargo transport
15:23<@Alberth>hmm, I would know any good such goals, but sure, open a ticket, and make a few suggestions as initial collection or so
15:25<@Alberth>Hmm, do you want to open a dbg session on a crashed program? "yeah sure". Ok, please download 1G debug info data :p
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15:43<drac_boy>hi? :)
15:46<drac_boy>flygon or sim-a12 heres something "homemade" and it sure does look strange for that
15:47<drac_boy>I have to haze its carrying small fuel supplies on the sides .. and the large shallow pot on roof is where the exhaust got to be :)
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15:57<drac_boy>and umm I have no clue about its history tbh but doesn't this look like a self-powered coal hopper car? 0_o
15:57<drac_boy>I think I saw that in some magazine just once some time ago but mm you'll have to fill in the blanks yourself tho :)
16:02<drac_boy>and to any grf makers in here .. don't say north america never had maglev (even if it was only test and probably just has a capacity for maybe 2-5 passengers heh)
16:03<drac_boy>dates varies but it would appear to generally be around 1970-1980's
16:16<drac_boy>ah and sim-a12 I wasn't sure if there would be a copy online (I still got magazine with the short article basically titled "WHOOPS!") ... this is one bad slam into a solid stopped train (which apparently has been already removed by now)
16:16<drac_boy>talk about a bad crumple
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16:35*drac_boy gives tina another beer jug to get tipsy on
16:35<drac_boy>heh :)
16:48<drac_boy>anyway going afk for a bit re slow-cooking supper to make :-s
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21:43<drac_boy>long night but meh :-s heh
21:48*drac_boy wonders if flygon wants a tumbleweed :P
21:52<Flygon>Nature called
21:52<Flygon>Also was distracted by an American in the other network
21:54<drac_boy>heh ok..not sure I want know what "other" is but then :)
21:54<Flygon>It starts with #train
21:55<drac_boy>what you doing atm anyhow?
21:56<Flygon>Trying to find a French speaker
21:56<Flygon>I need two sentences translated
21:56<drac_boy>I see, can't really help you sorry
21:56<Flygon>Not that sort of Canadian? xP
21:56<drac_boy>canadian can be english you silly aussie ;)
21:57<Flygon>I know :P
22:02<drac_boy>btw flygon about wasn't for same kind of reason but some of the 'smaller' big railroads in usa before used to decide to completely repower (sometimes same traction motors, sometimes even that got replaced too) their road switcher for a bit more hp to deal with the newer freight services
22:03<Flygon>Makes sense
22:04<drac_boy>so you could end up with something like this being replenished with a cummins turbo 6-inline (smaller yet better, strange isn't that sometimes?)
22:04<drac_boy>oh and on a slight related note its a weird thing but a lot of the early diesels that were sold for shunting or branchline duty often really got assigned to mainline trains (whether these had setouts to do enroute or not)
22:05<drac_boy>nothing like seeing a cummins-sounding V1000 doing 80kph with a mixed freight train :)
22:06<Flygon>That happened here with the Y-Classes...
22:06<Flygon>They were build for little used branchlines (65km/h, 480hpish)
22:06<Flygon>Then as soon as the production run was completed, the branchlines shut down
22:06<Flygon>So they were repurposed for shunting
22:06<Flygon>Then VR tried to find a more economical use for them...
22:06<Flygon>So they reassigned them for freight
22:07<Flygon>Then VR needed more passenger services on the mainlines...
22:07<Flygon>Predictably, the programme to have a 65km/h severely underpowered 25 year old loco hauling peak hour services on the mainlines was underappreciated by the public.
22:11<drac_boy>heh well if "peak hour" mean more than four axle-ac coaches then umm yeah we do indeed have a problem here? :)
22:13<Flygon>Three of them
22:14<Flygon>But... considering the same consists were being hauled by Ns and A-Class locos (2500hp 115km/h...)
22:14<Flygon>Even the T/P-Classes hauling the same sets were far quicker (900-1100hp 100km/h)
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22:16<drac_boy>flygon btw took me a while to find it but heres one of the so-called mainline-running "switcher"
22:17<Flygon>That's a shunter?...
22:17<drac_boy>ex-steam headlights (that explains their big size) aside to light-backed numberboards (a real shunter doesn't need these as the operator towers would rarely be seeing such units)
22:17<Flygon>Looks like a bloody T-Class to me
22:20<drac_boy>well flygon many of these just ran around at like 5-30kph .. some of them did share similar gearings from the geep due to similar trucks tho
22:21*Flygon nod
22:21<drac_boy>but for mainline they were never designed for that (lot worser if its the cab facing forward as theres only one thin sheetmetal between a crash and the engineer's seat)
22:21<Flygon>It just looks extremely oversized for a shunter, is all
22:21<Flygon>Most were designed to be tiny af here
22:22<Flygon>Hence why most tended to have just 40hp
22:22<drac_boy>flygon well its as small as it could be especially as the last 2-3 feet in front is taken up by a shutterable radiator .. and the non-engine part probably need a bit of its own space too
22:22<Flygon>Shutterable radiator?
22:22<drac_boy>the vents-inclusive side door panels probably hints to how small the engine is
22:22<Flygon>I think the smallest here were just air-cooled
22:22<drac_boy>flygon..yeah there were blind-like vertical shutters in front of the radiator ... mainly to avoid running too cold
22:23<Flygon>Riight right, it snows there
22:27<drac_boy>btw flygon took me a while to find a non-black one (which was usually the cheap default) but here if that works
22:28<drac_boy>since engine's off the shutters are completely closed naturally
22:28<drac_boy>otherwise they would be parallel to the sides and you'll be watching the big fan spinning in front of you :)
22:28*Flygon nod
22:28<Flygon>Just a note, man
22:29<Flygon>I gotta do IRL stuff in a few mins x3
22:29<Flygon>Shopping ect
22:29<drac_boy>I'm going sleep soon too next time ok?
22:29<Flygon>See ya again
22:29<drac_boy>and btw I dunno if the aussie ones had same thing but here well...
22:30<drac_boy>the emd FT (and some F3 till they finally automated that) had manual shutters on the sides so you had to have the fireman running back to close them when going into long tunnel .. open them when running hot in open ... close them when train came to a long stop (even in summer)
22:30<drac_boy>but anyway talk about that next time :P have fun shipping ;)
22:31*drac_boy throws some empty shopping bags at flygon?
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23:33<sim-al2>T class is basically an Aussie EMD G8
23:34<sim-al2>EMDs no matter the type tended to have very similar lines
23:36<Flygon>sim-al2: Basically? It's practically the same vehicle.
23:36<sim-al2>Different roofs over time though
23:36<Flygon>Though the Aussie ones seem to've lasted longest in commission
23:36<Flygon>And by that I mean, they're still being used 65 years later
23:36<Flygon>I'm half expecting them to continue to be used until they're 100 years old for freight...
23:38<sim-al2>Also the change from 567 to 645 over production life
23:42<sim-al2>It is interesting that all the current Aussie diesel locomotives being built are for mainlines only
---Logclosed Sun Nov 22 00:00:44 2015