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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-11-26

---Logopened Thu Nov 26 00:00:50 2015
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04:47<ektor>hello :)
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05:58<ektor>hi :)
06:07<@planetmaker>ho
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06:44<@planetmaker>@calc 0.03 * 74 * 365
06:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 810.3
06:44<@planetmaker>@calc 0.03 * 74 * 365 / 60
06:44<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 13.505
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07:28<argoneus>@calc 0.03 * 74 / 0
07:28<@DorpsGek>argoneus: Error: float division by zero
07:28<argoneus>wew lad
07:30<V453000>gg
07:31<argoneus>@calc 2^5
07:31<@DorpsGek>argoneus: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
07:31<argoneus>lies
07:31<argoneus>@calc 2**5
07:31<@DorpsGek>argoneus: 32
07:31<argoneus>@calc 2**5**5
07:31<@DorpsGek>argoneus: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
07:31<argoneus>@calc -2**5**5
07:31<@DorpsGek>argoneus: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
07:31<argoneus>@calc -1*2**5**5
07:31<@DorpsGek>argoneus: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
07:31<argoneus>((
07:32<argoneus>it's smarter than me
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 42
07:37<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 42
07:45<V453000>nice
07:47<V453000>also, Q: when I am defining train power, say engine A has power 1000. I then want to multiply this power by 1.2 to get 20% bonus.
07:47<V453000>can I in NML define a variable like PowerA which would be 1000 and use it in all of the calculations?
07:48<V453000>like switch .. check for rail type, if railtype -whatever-, then use this variable and multiply it that way?
07:48<V453000>or re-define a new variable which does that operation and only load the operation in the switch?
07:51<V453000>also, is there a way to check how many -items- are in consist?
07:51<V453000>like if I have some kind of wagon which would influence the whole train, counting those and making the effect stack up?
07:51<@planetmaker>I can't say I got your question about the power calculation, what you want to do where and how and use where else
07:51<@planetmaker>it probably needs an example :P
07:52<V453000>cant dig one up atm, but last time I was doing things like trains adapting to PURR tracks
07:52<@planetmaker>and if it's just about power... use powered wagons instead of funky math
07:53<V453000>is a switch which has a switch checking for railtype ... if railtype = whatever, then have power of 1200 .... but I couldnt put there a originalPower * 1.2
07:53<V453000>am asking if there is some variable way to go around this
07:53<V453000>because I do a lot of those operations
07:53<V453000>'... powered wagons are another thing, I use those as well in different way :P
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: you can use "variable=1000" and then use "variable" in switch calculations. this uses up one of the parameter slots
07:54<V453000>parameter slots?
07:54<V453000>like parameter of the whole grf?
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes
07:55<V453000>aha
07:55<V453000>how many can I haz?
07:55<V453000>256?
07:55<@planetmaker>no, iirc you cannot read a property such as power
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i think nml reserves some for internal use, you might have like 64
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it should tell you at the end of your compile
07:55<@planetmaker>^ I think that's right
07:55<V453000>should be enough
07:55<V453000>:)
07:56<V453000>okay
07:56<V453000>one more thing, more wtf ... but I guess pm answered that
07:56<V453000>can I increase power of the whole train by, say, 20% by attaching some super-powered wagon?
07:57<V453000>I guess by hacks I theoretically could, but the idea is what is happening when I get 2 of them
07:57<@planetmaker>you can increase the power of the whole train by X horse powers. 20% is difficult
07:57<V453000>or 3, ... if the effect can multiply
07:57<V453000>yeah
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: i think the engine defines how much a wagon adds
07:57<V453000>I know that
07:57<@planetmaker>of course X can be 20%. But ...
07:57<V453000>hm
07:58<V453000>being able to calculate how many in_consist vehicle type IDs are
07:58<V453000>like how many wagons with X id are there
07:58<@planetmaker>extra_power_per_wagon
07:58<V453000>is that possible in some way?
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>the wagon itself has no power, the powered_wagon callback of the engine defines how many and which wagons get power
07:58<V453000>pm I dont want it just for power :P
07:59<@planetmaker> num_vehs_in_vehid_chain or so
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: there is definitely a 60+ variable which counts vehicle id in consist
07:59<V453000>:0 didnt notice
07:59<V453000>thanks
07:59<V453000>>:}
07:59<V453000>mayhem awaits
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Count_Veh.ID_occurence_.2860.29
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>i leave it as an exercise for the reader to find out what the nml name of that variable is
08:02<V453000><3
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>note that this kind of counting might be skewed when mixing vehicle sets
08:03<V453000>See num_vehs_in_consist, but not of the complete vehicle but only all consecutive parts with the same id.
08:03<V453000>can I use this to count them in the whole train if I know, say, 10 possible IDs that can occur there?
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>no, that is one of the 40+ variables
08:04<V453000>._,
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>or?
08:04<V453000>reader is fucked
08:05<V453000>count_veh_id
08:05<V453000>haha
08:05<V453000>reader seems unfucked
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes, "count_veh_id"
08:05<V453000> The number of vehicles in the current consist that have the given ID.
08:05<V453000>looks correct
08:05<V453000>:>
08:05<V453000>fuck yes
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>use with PARENT scope
08:06<V453000>right :)
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>also, multiple engines might have weird/unwanted behaviour
08:08<V453000>it will only be used with 1 engine trains, they cant attach anything else, not even themselves
08:08<V453000>they are 2-headed though
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08:24<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes what you're saying makes absolutely no sense
08:24<V453000>like? :>
08:26<@planetmaker>V453000, no point to count anything, if the engine per definition is the whole train as nothing can attachi. Is there?
08:28<V453000>eh yeah I meant attach any other engines
08:28<V453000>they can of course attach the wagons in question
08:28<V453000>(:
08:33<V453000>something completely different, can I somehow count time since last service?
08:33<V453000>there is date of last service
08:33<V453000>can I somehow subtract that from current date?
08:36<V453000>tough questions today :P
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08:42<Eddi|zuHause>don't use current date in calculations. it'll desync
08:43<V453000>even if I use the calculation only in depot/station?
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>you could try it in purely visual contexts
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08:44<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, "current date" is one of the global variables
08:44<V453000>right, just changing sprites
08:44<V453000>yay :D
08:46<V453000>so current_date - date_of_last_service = date(year, month, day) ?
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09:00<Eddi|zuHause>no
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>the difference between two dates is not a day
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>not a date
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>it's the number of days in the timeframe
09:01<V453000>:D ok
09:02<eM>Oh, i thought the difference between two dates was that one was named after a terrorist, and the other after a different one
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09:03<V453000>akbar?
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09:05<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think akbar is a name :p
09:06<V453000>yes
09:07<@planetmaker>he, that's a nicest capcha I just ever saw: a selection of 10 images with "click on the image of Einstein to proceed"
09:07<@planetmaker>fitting for a science journal :D
09:09<V453000>xd
09:09<V453000>and picture is called einsten.png to make it harder for bots? :P
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09:12<Wolf01>o/
09:12<eM>planetmaker: i propose a captcha like that that just filters out anyone with an IQ<100
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>didn't google want to get rid of captchas?
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>"we know whether you're a bot or not long before you show up at the site"
09:17<V453000>XD
09:18<@planetmaker>:)
09:18<eM>Yeaaaa, big google is watching you :P
09:20<@planetmaker>V453000, something like /captcha/969cc278-9448-11e5-90ba-7e5aa7f98ea7/9687a301a5 according to URL source :P
09:20<@planetmaker>so someone paid attention ;)
09:20<V453000>yeah I assumed :)
09:22<Flygon_>eM: Are you trying to get me banned?
09:22-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
09:22<Flygon>I mean, sure
09:22<Flygon>I'm a complete idiot
09:22<Flygon>But... uh...
09:22<Flygon>...
09:22<Flygon>I... don't have anything going for me
09:22<Flygon>But, like
09:22<Flygon>I'm #openttd's pet!... I think
09:22<Flygon>I don't know, I'm too stupid to tell
09:22<Flygon>>_>
09:22<Flygon><_<
09:22<Flygon>HYVAA YOTA #OPENTTD!
09:24<eM>...?
09:26<V453000>Flygon stoned?
09:27<V453000>best german band name award 2015 by me: We Butter The Bread With Butter XD
09:27<V453000>just wtf XD
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>i can't listen to them :p
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>they take popular children songs, and perform them in a metal-growling-style
09:37<V453000>idk the music sounds a lot more than I would expect from their name XD
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10:06<Wolf01>V453000, we have bands with absurd names also here, my cousin was a guitarist in a band called After Moat, another band from my area is RumaTera (ground diggers) and i don't even remember the most beautifully stupid names of the other bands
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>new bavarian police uniforms: http://stern.de/6573900.html
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10:31<Wolf01>o/
10:36<@Alberth>moin
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11:19<eM>Hmmmh, i can see the resemblance, Eddi|zuHause, but i also get a tiny nazi-vibe from that helmet.
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>eM: there are lots of places nowadays where you could get a nazi vibe...
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>like when Sarkozy demands a "total war"
11:20*eM shrugs
11:20<eM>yeesh
11:20<eM>did he really!?
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>might be a poor translation, but pretty much...
11:21*eM can just HEAR the words "WOHLT IHR DEN TOTALEN KRIEG" in my mind
11:21*eM adds a ? to that quote
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>and, of course, all the actual nazis beating down on immigrants and fugitives
11:23<eM>Bah. you'd think germany would be the ONE country on this planet where that kind of things wouldn't be able to happen ever again
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>where, of course, almost all the paris terrorists are native french, or are french/belgian citizens most of their life
11:24<eM>Pfeh. if there were terrorists inbetween those refugees they wouldn't strike a concert hall. at least, i wouldn't.
11:25<eM>I'd strike at a refugee center. making it very clear that you can leave syria/deash, but they won't leave you
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>there were in the order of 500 strikes against refugee homes in germany this year
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>some of them occupied, some before the fugitives could move in
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12:11<__ln__>aren't all the *actual* nazis in their 90s already?
12:11<TurkeyTourism>Hi, how to change the hight of tree growth for subtropical landscape?
12:12<TurkeyTourism>I find only option snow_line_height for snow in subartical.
12:15<V453000>from what I understand I think the problem is not that there would be terrorists among immigrants, the problem is that they create ghettos and slums, which is perfect ground for extremism
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12:25<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: nazis did not suddenly freeze in time just because the war ended...
12:26<__ln__>but the party probably hasn't accepted new members after the end of war
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>just because the nazi party and organizations were forbidden, doesn't mean there didn't exist structures that nurtured nazi ideology
12:30<TurkeyTourism>Perhaps the problem is that the economic foundation of the EU creates an excellent living conditions on its own territory, but ignores any problems (such as local wars, food shortages, monopoly on energy ways, the ‘democratic revolutions’ under the control of USA) in the poorer countries. Because there is ‘not enough democratic’ and ‘they do not want to negotiate’, but in fact both sides simply parasitize each other.
12:32<@Alberth>you could try a different industry set that ignores snowline in arctic
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>TurkeyTourism: any simple explanation is guaranteed to be wrong
12:32<TurkeyTourism>The EU enjoys a poverty of poor countires for sale cheap low-quality products at a great price, and the purchase of cheap resources. Poor countries trying ‘throw bridges’ with ‘civilization’, even to move there to live. In short, Europe is suffering a national individualism and the inability to create different rules for DIFFERENT people. As a result, these people write their own rules.
12:38<TurkeyTourism>Eddi|zuHause: it is impossible to be both soft and welcoming as Europe today, you will be used by each guest. What is happening today.
12:40<V453000>I dont see much difference between murderous ideologies like nazis or islam
12:41<V453000>neither has a place in modern, safe society
12:42<[Franklin]>is it against the rules to "steal" goods from a factory in multiplayer?
12:43<Taede>thats up to the individual server, however most will have rules against just that yes
12:50<TurkeyTourism>If group of radicals acts by force, it will never negotiate through dialogue. Or just stupid and uncontrolled. All of them are the same: use the fans’ (or church) calls and slogans as ideas, looking for an external enemy, and do not spare it and themselves.
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27458 trunk/src/lang/basque.txt (2015-11-26 19:45:10 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>basque - 20 changes by Thadah
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13:51<TurkeyTourism>[20:10] <TurkeyTourism> Hi, how to change the hight of tree growth for subtropical landscape? I find only option snow_line_height for snow in subartical.
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13:52<Eddi|zuHause>yes, tropic is hardcoded
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14:25<andythenorth>o/
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14:42<frosch123>hoi
14:50<Wolf01>hi o/
14:54<[Franklin]>hello
15:06-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
15:06<andythenorth>but cat
15:12<Wolf01>cat is with isis now
15:15<andythenorth>cat is lost
15:15<andythenorth>is there anything on the internet?
15:15<andythenorth>or is the internet over?
15:17-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit []
15:18<Wolf01>i think it's over
15:20<Wolf01>meh, italy going fully stupid again, it's selling 40% of the rail infrastructures to privates, the trenitalia administration just resigned
15:21<__ln__>Wolf01: do the trenitalia ticket vending machines still run OS/2? (or possibly it was eComStation)
15:22<Wolf01>last time i checked they ran windows xp, i assumed it from the blue screen
15:23<Wolf01>but we have a lot of different ticket vending machines so i really don't know
15:25<Wolf01>hey, it's about 2 years i don't take a train :o
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15:30<__ln__>that's too much
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15:47<andythenorth>blah
15:47<andythenorth>seafood
15:47<andythenorth>‘export food’ is a stupid cargo, no?
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15:50<frosch123>junk food?
15:50<frosch123>just use the WSTE cargo label
15:51<andythenorth>ha ha
15:51<andythenorth>burgers
15:51<andythenorth>nobody mention the S word please :(
15:51<andythenorth>it’s a boring joke
15:51<frosch123>anyway, you already have food and alcohol
15:51<frosch123>which get mostly delivered to the sam eplaces
15:51<frosch123>so you could as well make food local, and alcohol export
15:51<frosch123>or the other way around
15:52<frosch123>i can think of a H word, but not of a S word
15:53<andythenorth>seafood is a distraction :)
15:53<andythenorth>I just have this african economy, which is short on food production, but exports the fishing catch
15:53<andythenorth>which actually happens
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>smørrebrød?
15:54<andythenorth>value of hard currency exports means food is exported
15:54<andythenorth>despite local shortages
15:54<frosch123>let the player make that decision
15:55<frosch123>make ports give useful cargos (supplies) for food
15:55<frosch123>while the other places give you nothing
15:55<andythenorth>indeed
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>(was that the S word?)
15:55<andythenorth>nah :)
15:55<frosch123>don't force the player to be evil, just set a trap :p
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>i frankly have no clue what the S word would be
15:56<frosch123>did you figure out the H word then?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>is "smørrebrød" actually a word that is used in scandinavian languages?
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>or is that just a word a german made up to sound like it's scandinavian? :p
15:58<frosch123>not sure, when i was in norway and told the people it was the only word i knew, they were mildly astonished
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>like people nowadays make up words that sound like they're english
16:01<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: anyway, i would not use smørebrød in german either
16:01<frosch123>though i believe there are some dialects which use it like sandwich
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't use the word either
16:03<andythenorth>hmm
16:03<frosch123>other people use "uber" all the time :p
16:08<andythenorth>where are my vehicles?
16:08*andythenorth wonders aloud
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16:10<Eddi|zuHause>the cat caught them and dragged them away?
16:19<andythenorth>found them
16:23<andythenorth>cement plant, what cargo can I substitute for clay?
16:26*andythenorth thinks players will complain about using bauxite or iron ore “unrealistic"
16:27<Eearslya>water
16:28<andythenorth>what larks
16:28<andythenorth>http://iti.northwestern.edu/cement/monograph/Monograph3_3.html
16:28<andythenorth>rice hull ash? o_O
16:30<slaca>guys, when you start a new game, then you generate a random map, or create in the mapeditor?
16:31<frosch123>random map
16:31<frosch123>always
16:31<andythenorth>+1
16:31<frosch123>always hilly or mountainious
16:31<frosch123>never flat
16:31<Eearslya>ouch
16:33<slaca>what I don't like in random map that the rivers always are 1 tile wide, I can make it wider in map editor
16:33<FLHerne>Lots and lots of autogenerated maps until I get one with sensible macroterrain
16:33<Eearslya>4096x4096
16:34<frosch123>never bigger than 256x256 per player
16:34<slaca>is there opportunity to make river in newest trunk?
16:34<FLHerne>Terragenesis has an annoying habit of generating maps with a nice grid of pyramidal mountains and squareish small lakes
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: call it something different than "cement", if you switch input cargos?
16:35<frosch123>FLHerne: reduce "roughness"
16:35<FLHerne>slaca: Since years ago in 1.2.something?
16:35<Eearslya>I always had a dream of filling a 4096x4096 with transport, but the lag and vehicle limits crushed it
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>if you make larger map, you should make it sparser (fewer towns, fewer industries)
16:36<slaca>i hate when i destroy a river part accidentally and cant do anything against it
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>slaca: you have to either replace it with a canal, or load the game in scenario editor to place the river
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>(might require fiddling with file extensions)
16:37<slaca>thx Eddi
16:37<FLHerne>Oh, building it manually. I'd quite like that too.
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>there should be the ability to forbid destroying water...
16:38<andythenorth>probably I just have to mine clay
16:38<slaca>the editor solution looks good, i dont want to replace it with canal, it would look a bit odd :)
16:39<Eearslya>Do concrete and have a rock quarry for gravel
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i was serious. define the input cargos depending on what suits the economy, and then decide what to call the output cargo
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>slaca: many modern rivers are canalized
16:40<andythenorth>the output is building materials
16:40<andythenorth>strictly
16:40<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#cement_plant
16:41<andythenorth>I could just use clay, but it’s interesting to look at alternative cargos
16:41<slaca>Eddi: yes they are, but not in the middle of a mountain, where nothing is :)
16:44<slaca>one more question: if i transport only grain from farm, and not animals, than will the farm break off after some years??
16:45<andythenorth>nah
16:46*andythenorth looks for gypsum mines
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18:59<drac_boy>hi
19:07<FLHerne>Mornin
19:14<drac_boy>hows you?
19:14<FLHerne>Alright
19:14<FLHerne>Tired
19:19<drac_boy>I see
19:22<drac_boy>going sleep later on here too perhaps...have a few things in morning to do :)
19:23<drac_boy>but which of..I forgot who first bought that up but I finally found where I recalled seeing that V-pistons locomotive before: http://www.schneider-mayenfisch.com/drg_lokomotiven_19_1001.htm
19:23<drac_boy>and on the note of rather small express locomotives...umm well this one I dunno what to make of http://www.worldrailfans.info/Articles/Europe/GermanSteamImages/DRG-DB/DRG71-0xx.jpg
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>isn't that the exact page that i linked?
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19:49<Wolf01>'night
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21:36<Flygon>V453000: I'm ground, not stone!
21:37<Eddi|zuHause>you did sound kinda out of it earlier :p
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---Logclosed Fri Nov 27 00:00:51 2015