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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-11-30

---Logopened Mon Nov 30 00:00:56 2015
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08:01<Wolf01> where's andy? i think i found cat
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>the danger there is that the cat misinterprets this as a pit of sand
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08:18<Mazur>You underestimate the basic intelligence of cats. That would neither hide it nor mask ht scent.
08:23<Wolf01>or they just leave "it" in plain sight in the middle of the room
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>one of my cats had the habit of peeing into flower pots
08:25<Wolf01>mine had the habit of peeing on the wc, the base of the wc
08:30<Mazur>You should not have missed that often.
08:31<Wolf01>that was the first thought, everybody on my family negated and then we found the culprit
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08:39<Mazur>Still, the cat would not do that unless a. the sandbox wasn't cleaned often enough and b. it had not detected a sense it was a place of elimination.
08:39<Mazur>And c. it had no free access to the outside world.
08:40<Mazur>Ever since my parents installed a cat-flap in the backdoor, the litterbox only got used in terrible weather.
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>we have no litterbox, the cats just go outside
08:41<Mazur>There you have it.
08:42<Wolf01>b for sure, he is really lazy and he started to do it when he figured out what we do there, then we started to keep the door shut so he was forced to go outside
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, we used to have one, but it's just more work than benefit
08:42<Mazur>Especially since a catflap eliminates the need.
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, the main trouble with the litterbox was that these little grains don't stay in the box, and distribute themselves over the wholehouse
08:48<Mazur>Breakfast. AFK/
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13:43<frosch123>the polroad grf is way too complicated
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27459 /trunk/src/lang (basque.txt spanish.txt) (2015-11-30 19:45:13 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>basque - 43 changes by Thadah
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 3 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
13:45<@planetmaker>what does the grf do, frosch123 ?
13:46<frosch123>no idea, but it uses a shitload of macros, so you cannot read anything
13:46<frosch123>and the .nml file is committed to the repo
13:46<frosch123>so i can never truest the makefile to really update it
13:46<frosch123>because the repo one might be newer
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14:20<V453000>@seen andythenorth
14:20<@DorpsGek>V453000: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 23 hours, 30 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <andythenorth> _that_ won’t look good in ottd
14:21<frosch123>got your answer?
14:21<V453000>NO. :( I AM SAD AS SHIT
14:22<V453000>ok it isnt so bad :)
14:22<V453000>I am just wondering if andy has a list of ALL of FIRS cargoes
14:22<V453000>including the java bullshit and whatnot
14:22<V453000>cargolist in grf?
14:22<@Alberth>newgrf specs?
14:23<frosch123>oh, it doesn't list the cargolabel
14:23<frosch123>how weird
14:23<@Alberth>not of interest to a user
14:23<V453000>lets see if I can find the tt wiki cargo page
14:23<frosch123> <- well, one file per cargo
14:24<frosch123>Alberth: andy locked himself out of the wiki
14:24<V453000>? :d
14:24<frosch123>so, no updated firs stuff in newgrfspecs :)
14:24<V453000>what why?
14:25<frosch123>wikipedia has this bullshit going on, that not all characters work in usernames and passwords
14:25<Zuu>Each file have cargo_labe = '...', so a grep or two or vim macro to sort out just what you want.
14:25<frosch123>you can change stuff on forums, which the wiki then does not understand
14:26<frosch123>there is actually a coding page in the firs docs :)
14:33<V453000>hm looks like I am only missing nitrates in my graphics
14:33<frosch123>do you have pyrite ore?
14:33<V453000>WTF is pyrite ore :D
14:33<V453000>ok I dont have that either
14:33<frosch123>noone knows :)
14:34<frosch123>it's an andy thing
14:34<V453000>that is just perfect XD
14:34<V453000>I will add some random colour sprites which didnt fit anywher eelse
14:34<frosch123>apparently you can google it
14:34<frosch123>but still :p
14:35<V453000>looks like gold
14:35<frosch123>andy was debating for days, whether to add gold, and then settled for pyrite ore :)
14:36<V453000>that sounds like his logic
14:39<@Rubidium>isn't pyrite some sort of fake gold?
14:40<@Rubidium>and probably pyrite could have higher yields than gold
14:42<@planetmaker>Rubidium, it is exactly that
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14:48<frosch123>could have been andy :)
14:49<frosch123>planetmaker: did you know pyrite in advance, or did you look it up?
14:50<V453000>I do remember pyrite from chemistry
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14:58<Zuu>frosch123: _dp_ made a new patch. (a week ago) In his comment he says _NORMAL is needed because growth rate of 0 is a valid value.
14:58<Zuu>It might be internally even though in general a rate of 0 is a bit strange.
14:59<@planetmaker>frosch123, I know what pyrite is, yes. I knew it approximately before, but I needed to look up the details
14:59<@planetmaker>basically my knowledge extended prior to 'some quite common mineral in the continental crust'
15:05<Zuu>_dp_: As for patch splitting, I would usually cut out parts of the .patch file and apply. Manually fix up what remains. Then 'hg qrefresh' or commit it in git, then you continue like that and make hg or git record the different stages of the files. Having done that you can step backwards/forward in the patch history and produce patch-files for each step. In hg you can just grap .hg/patches/*.patch. :-)
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15:07<_dp_>Zuu, so by splitting you mean more like having patch history?
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15:08<Zuu>Eg. something like this:
15:10<Zuu>The formula change you made is located in 3 places. While you are right one of the places do change location in a differnt part of your patch, it is different changes/actions to the code.
15:14<_dp_>Zuu, hm, I may try it next time, did't know hg could do this. Still not sure if that would really help understanding as changes will be easier but there will be more of them and some could even get changed again before path completion.
15:15<_dp_>Also speaking of this particular patch it's not how I developed it. I created a separate file with tests and worked there until it was passing them all, then just copy-pasted code and did final testing in ttd.
15:15<Zuu>For hg, you like to lookup "hg queues" or "mq". For git you use a branch and if you want to change something you make a new branch or so.
15:17<@Alberth>_dp_: that's normal procedure, first you figure out what you need to make it work. Once that works, figure out how to apply the changes into openttd such that each step makes sense, and everything keeps working
15:18<@Alberth>both times you start from unmodified openttd
15:19<@Alberth>I usually keep the working version in one directory, and an unmodified openttd in another directory (with VCS under it), then copy/paste small parts of the change to form a new commit for the 2nd time. Commit each of that patches to the vcs, and you'll end up with a nice queue to get the patch into openttd in a logical way
15:20<@Alberth>especially useful if you have an editor that can show diff between two windows, while allowing you to edit
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15:28<Zuu>Alberth: Is that an (to me) unknown vim feature?
15:29<Zuu>I know there is vimdiff. Hmm. with autosave enabled that could work. But even better to compare the file streams without saving.
15:31<Zuu>Hello andy
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16:01<@Alberth>vimdiff is a normal editing mode, that you can also setup from within the editor, or from the command-line
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16:02<@Alberth>I have a script that opens a window for the same file in two repository directories
16:03<@Alberth>ie cd new_repo; open_files ../old_repo src/file1
16:05<Zuu>IIRC I have used vimdiff to view patch files or maybe to diff two files from Windows right click menu, but really I haven't tried to use it while editing.
16:05<Zuu>Thanks for the hint.
16:07<@Alberth>gvim -c ":diffsplit olddir/file" newdir/file
16:07<@Alberth>does horizontal split instead of vertical split so long lines fit better :)
16:07<frosch123>if you know vimdimm.... do you also know how to exit vimdiff and make hg insert normal conlfict markers?
16:08<frosch123>i know how to disable it in .hgrc
16:08<frosch123>but i do not know what to do on machines which are not mine, when i suddenly end up in a vimdiff session :p
16:09<Zuu>It is interesting how one can always learn more about vim.
16:10<frosch123>more scary stuff, yes :)
16:10<@Alberth>hg help merge-tools <-- says stuff about HGMERGE env var
16:11<frosch123>Alberth: yes, but at that point it is already too late :p
16:11<drac_boy>heh all I know about vim is to...reboot the system to get back to console? :->
16:11<@Alberth>drac_boy: ever tried :wq <enter>
16:11<@Alberth>or :q! even
16:11<frosch123>Alberth: how evil
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16:12<frosch123>yes, "ESC :q!" is what you need to know
16:12*andythenorth wonders how to compile this rivers thing
16:12<drac_boy>or how about just ctrl+q? ;)
16:12<andythenorth>eh, it should go on Truebrain’s new compile farm thing
16:12<Zuu>:q! - The vim version of rm -rf / ?
16:12<@Alberth>or learn vim properly instead of whatever broken editor you use now :p
16:13<@planetmaker>:q! means "getta out here quickly without mess"
16:13<@Alberth>drac_boy: that's a shell thing rather than a vim thing
16:13<drac_boy>vim's the broken one :P
16:13<Zuu>Of course :q! only abort what you did in that file. So it will not break your system though. :-)
16:13<@Alberth>nope, vim just has a very steep learning curve
16:13<drac_boy>but anyway nevermind that ... just get back to your normal topic above ;)
16:13<frosch123>andythenorth: hg init --mq; unzip stuff into .hg/patches; hg qpush -a; ./configure; make
16:13<andythenorth>ho thanks
16:14<frosch123>make sure to replace "series" during unzip
16:14<andythenorth>I would never have figured out .hg/patches on my own :P
16:15<Zuu>I usually chmod +r on it and then scp it to /~zuu/../ to update a patch series.
16:16<Zuu>.hg/patches is one of the things that make hg queues work nice for pereparing patches to projects using a central trunk.
16:16<@Alberth>euhm, every project has one trunk, hasn't it? :)
16:16*andythenorth wishes people would just use github :P
16:17<andythenorth>all this ‘make a queue, get a zip’ stuff is high friction
16:17<andythenorth>when fonso wanted to share cdist stuff with me, he just gave me the github
16:17<Zuu>The problem with queues is when you start trying to share them.
16:18<andythenorth>github, feature branches
16:18<andythenorth>it’s a solved problem :x
16:18<@Alberth>hg clone repos
16:18<Zuu>I have had problems with branches when I try to work with them from more than one computer.
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16:18<@Alberth>hg branches don't work if that's what you mean :)
16:19<@Alberth>name space conflicts iirc
16:19<andythenorth>frosch123: yes, it’s very true
16:19<Zuu>I was refering to git branches. Never seriously tried hg braches.
16:20<Zuu>:-) @xkcd
16:21<@Alberth>ah, git has too many steps, I always miss one step at some point during the day
16:21<@Alberth>and things end up at the wrong place
16:22<@Alberth>good night
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16:23<frosch123>andythenorth: see andy, i have noone to fix my git checkouts
16:23<frosch123>but i can do it for svn and hg
16:24<andythenorth>I have yet to actually break git, and I am provably someone who breaks things
16:26<Zuu>Do you work your own in git from a single directory on your single computer?
16:27<Zuu>When having multiple checkouts (on same computer or different one), I find things start to get interesting. Especially if it involves branches and also other people. :-)
16:32<Zuu>good night
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16:34<andythenorth>zuu has gone :P
16:34*andythenorth works on multiple repos with multiple people, with hundreds of branches
16:36<frosch123>oh, yes, if everyone keeps their own branch, you never run into merge conflicts
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 01 00:00:58 2015