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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-12-04

---Logopened Fri Dec 04 00:00:02 2015
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04:22<andythenorth>tyre plant? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7539/tyre_plant_1.png
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04:45<@planetmaker>moin
04:45<@planetmaker>andythenorth, it looks a bit non-descript
04:45<andythenorth>yeah
04:45<@Alberth>moin
04:45<@planetmaker>Possibly less realistic, but nicer to see: at least stacks of tyres
04:45<andythenorth>blah + silos
04:45<andythenorth>some tyre plants have a test track attached
04:46<andythenorth>but I’m not drawing that :P
04:46<@planetmaker>:)
04:46<V453000>honestly I am not even realizing that it is a new factory
04:46<V453000>looks like stockyard mk2
04:46<@planetmaker>:) somewhat
04:46<@Alberth>FYI: I pushed some changes in BB route selection
04:47<@planetmaker>however that is indeed what a tyre factory could look like
04:47<@Alberth>RL has such boring industries :p
04:52<V453000>andythenorth: big tire and random text as logo would help a ton
04:53<@planetmaker>https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipO0RsjHp1PLxrQT7j0yu3FT0gZ0ZU7kCzaWOMDm/photo/AF1QipMCeMy8vcqT9rTJ16uQQ1AVBPCFI6Ai6pI84IHD <-- a bit run-down but looks pretty similar. And it was Germany's biggest tyre factory when it was still producing
04:53<andythenorth>404 :(
04:53<@planetmaker>ah... yes, sorry: https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipO0RsjHp1PLxrQT7j0yu3FT0gZ0ZU7kCzaWOMDm/photo/AF1QipMCeMy8vcqT9rTJ16uQQ1AVBPCFI6Ai6pI84IHD
04:54<@planetmaker>is it even a different link?
04:54<V453000>probably not :D
04:54<andythenorth>nah :)
04:54<@planetmaker>https://goo.gl/photos/oforrPJAk5j27z3P8
04:54<@planetmaker>mix-up of different pastes :D
04:56<andythenorth>got any more photos? o_O
04:56<andythenorth>‘generic factory’ is probably inevitable for some of these industries
04:56<andythenorth>:P
04:56<andythenorth>vehicle factory will have same problem
04:56<@planetmaker>No more photos not of the entire complex at the moment, only details inside
04:57<V453000>IMO andy, the goal of graphics is to make factories distinguishable and identifiable, even if they seem generic
04:57<V453000>otherwise you could just use same re-randomized sprites for same gain
04:57<@planetmaker>https://goo.gl/photos/stYB9GtNRytUUWJU6 is the whole album of that foto session
04:58<@planetmaker>though the last 5 photos are from another place
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05:00<andythenorth>V453000: you think copy-paste from other industries doesn’t make distinguishable graphics? :(
05:01<V453000>well if you copypaste smaller bits, yes
05:02<V453000>there is of course a very subjective line of consistency X variety, but a lot of the industries seem the same to me
05:02<V453000>the new ones mainly
05:02<V453000>note, new ones is ~2 years old :P
05:03<andythenorth>ha ha
05:03<andythenorth>yes
05:04<andythenorth>the only interesting new one is http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#nitrate_mine
05:04<V453000>that one is nice but fuck the cargo
05:05<V453000>nitrates = wtf
05:05<V453000>y u no make it an iron ore mine or something instead of making up new wtf XD
05:06<andythenorth>unrealistic
05:07<V453000>bad excuse :P
05:08<andythenorth>why would I make it an iron ore mine?
05:08<andythenorth>moar cargos
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05:11<V453000>idk, make a complete set? :P
05:11<andythenorth>boring
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05:25<@Alberth>ha, nitrate mine is looking good
05:26<V453000> /me is waiting for pyrite
05:26<andythenorth>pyrite mine is boring
05:26<andythenorth>smelter should be good though
05:27<andythenorth>something like http://www.outotec.com/PageFiles/12183/roasting_500x700.jpg
05:33<V453000>yay lots of pipes and details
05:34<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7540/tyre_plant_2.png
05:34<andythenorth>that generic boiler house has to go (chimney building)
05:35<andythenorth>used in too many places
05:36<V453000>you just converted 2 colours? :D
05:36<andythenorth>painted some CC
05:36<andythenorth>the boilerhouse needs reworked, but I leave the chimney in same place, can’t be bothered to move the smoke :P
05:36<andythenorth>the silos are bugging me
05:36<andythenorth>FIRS is mostly silos :P
05:37<V453000>damn I am looking forward to the weekend so I could work on my grf
05:37*andythenorth does not want to draw tyres
05:39<V453000>I am currently really thinking how will I solve the bullshit of 141% side view for vehicles
05:39<V453000>what pikka does is nowhere near nice or proper
05:39<V453000>stretching is bullshit
05:39<V453000>only option looks like making 2 versions of model
05:40<V453000>one for diagonals and one for straight tracks
05:45<andythenorth>I have stopped drawing vehicles because of this crap
05:46<andythenorth>there is no point drawing when whatever you do is wrong
05:46<andythenorth>Squid is fucked for this
05:46<V453000>well drawing them is not a problem at all
05:46<V453000>you have to draw each view individually regardless
05:46<V453000>being nice is the only "right"
05:46<andythenorth>yeah, but to what length?
05:46<andythenorth>it’s all bollocks
05:47<V453000>to make it fit the game
05:47<V453000>length is just a number
05:47<V453000>when I was drawing pixels I had no issue with this what so ever
05:47<V453000>rendering is where shit hits the fan
05:48<andythenorth>most Squid ships were drawn over rendered output…
05:48<andythenorth>hence problem
05:48<andythenorth>look like crap in / \ views
05:48<V453000>just bad approach to drawing it
05:48<V453000>also, stretcing your rendered output is no problem if you manually draw over it anyway/ polish it
05:49<V453000>factorio has the same issue for vertical entities btw :P
05:49<V453000>there it is solved by different models
05:49<@Alberth>lol
05:50<andythenorth>currently I solved it
05:50<andythenorth>draw FIRS instead
05:50<andythenorth>end up with massive over-produced industry set
05:50<andythenorth>and still no decent ships :P
05:51<andythenorth>changed the boilerhouse thing, needs a different colour chimney? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7541/tyre_plant_3.png
05:51<V453000>XD
05:51<andythenorth>TooManySilos
05:51<andythenorth>I should fix the layouts
05:51<V453000>yeah the chimneys are kind of not fitting
05:51<andythenorth>this layout is copy-paste from another industry
05:51*andythenorth is being lazy
05:52<V453000>silos are fine as a background detail
05:52<V453000>but you need something at the front
05:52<V453000>and no, 8px of random boxes isnt what I mean :P
05:52<andythenorth>buildings and such?
05:52<V453000>some shit
05:52<andythenorth>how about a crane? o_O
05:52<V453000>inputs, products
05:52<andythenorth>not many of cranes in FIRS :P
05:53<V453000>ha, cranes would be great but probably for something more large-scale factory
05:53<V453000>tires sounds small
05:53<V453000>but meh
05:53<V453000>gtg lu chorz
05:53<andythenorth>~every FIRS industry has a crane
05:53<andythenorth>boring cranes
05:53<V453000>lunchorz
05:53<V453000>cranes are a great industrial detail
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06:57<andythenorth>tyre factory http://archnet.org/system/media_contents/contents/11449/original/IAA2287.jpg?1384692182
06:57<andythenorth>ho, this one looks ready-made http://galeon.com/simutrans/pak96/Tires.PNG
06:57<V453000>xd
06:58<V453000>you cant take realistic photographs of factories and transform them 1:1
06:58<andythenorth>that simutrans one will do, no?
06:58<andythenorth>I just copy that :P
06:59<V453000>yes that is better by having the actual tires
07:00<V453000>pipes for the rubber help a ton too
07:01<andythenorth>moar pipes
07:01<andythenorth>V453000: you just think I should greeble it more?
07:01<andythenorth>or what?
07:01<V453000>greeble?
07:01<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble
07:02<V453000>wat
07:02<V453000>no just add elements which actually make it feel like there is rubber turned into tires
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07:04<andythenorth>tyres ship in racks http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/an-employee-operates-a-front-loader-to-stack-finished-tyres-in-the-picture-id497693442
07:04<andythenorth>eh
07:04<andythenorth>I don’t want to put words on the roof
07:04<andythenorth>but how about some giant tyres?
07:04<andythenorth>o_O
07:06<@planetmaker>that's a nice idea :)
07:06<V453000>then no words, just giant tyres
07:06<V453000>is what I said as the first thing XD
07:09<andythenorth>go on then, draw me some :D
07:09*andythenorth hates drawing round stuff
07:09<andythenorth>eh, there are probably loads of tyres in HEQS :P
07:16<V453000>...
07:17<V453000>if you just drew it immediately without bitchin, you would have 100 tires already :P
07:21<andythenorth>don’t wave JFDI at me :P
07:21<andythenorth>procrastinating is part of the fun
07:23*planetmaker learnt a new acronym today :P
07:24<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7542/tyre_plant_4.png
07:28<andythenorth>tyres are crap at ttd scale :)
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07:51<Eddi|zuHause>again with the gap?
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07:52<Eddi|zuHause>(i think gaps are just andy's excuse to make industries bigger without seeming to be bigger)
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07:57<Wolf01>mmmh i'm really sleepy today
07:57<Wolf01>o/
08:01<andythenorth>gaps are TTD style
08:01<andythenorth>biab
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08:09<@Alberth>wolfs sleep during the day, don't they?
08:09<__ln__>*wolves
08:11<Wolf01>i woke up 1 hour ago, so i can confirm wolves sleep during the morning
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08:24<V453000>I dont think there is anything against gaps, I like them
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>but there's nothing to do with them, except build a road through. it's not enough space for a rail line or station
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>cut the gap, and cut one row of buildings... much better.
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08:29<Eddi|zuHause>or if you like variety, make 1 in 10 layouts have a gap...
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>but just gaps everywhere is terrible.
08:30<__ln__>mind the gap
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure they'd rather have no gap as well
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08:44<V453000>road/rail/station are all fitting there?
08:44<V453000> / eyecandy objects/stations?
08:45<V453000>I like it.
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>a 2-platform station or a 2-track-rail doesn't fit.
08:45<V453000>also you can build CHIPS tiles inside so that there is actually moving cargo inside of the factory
08:45<V453000>well building tracks close to each other is not the greatest idea either
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08:49<V453000>but yeah, 24 platform or 10 track rail does not fit either
08:50<andythenorth>oh the big gaps
08:50<andythenorth>whole tile gaps
08:50<andythenorth>they’re daft, mostly
08:50<andythenorth>yeah they need removed in many cases
08:54<V453000>but why
08:54<V453000>especially when there is an overhead connection between the parts, they are awesome
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>they still are overused
08:54<V453000>there is no reason to hate them, but there are reason why they are nice, for eyecandy and shit
08:55<andythenorth>some people confuse them for two industries
08:55<V453000>make more connections then :)
08:55<andythenorth>connections don’t work
08:55<andythenorth>station tiles etc fuck with them
08:57<V453000>player problem that they build tall stations there
08:57<andythenorth>looks better with gap removed
08:58<andythenorth>I’m not getting rid of all of them
08:58<V453000>fine :)
08:58<andythenorth>some industries are weird without them
08:58<andythenorth>plantations and forests and such
08:58<andythenorth>oil wells
09:00*andythenorth considers war against industry gaps
09:00<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you hate them so much?
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>that's the wrong word
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>"annoyed"
09:01<andythenorth>thesaurus? :P
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09:02<Flygon>Hey, anyone that can speak Francias on?
09:03<Flygon>I'd like to trust Google Translate
09:03<Flygon>But, frankly, I don't
09:03<Flygon>Does "Devenu fou de Puissance" work well with meaning "Gone Mad with Power"?
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like a terrible idea.
09:03<Flygon>(this's, like, the most international channel I know)
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>well, you just missed our resident french set author :p
09:05<Flygon>Perkele
09:06<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7543/tyre_plant_5.png
09:06<andythenorth>v1 https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7539/tyre_plant_1.png
09:08<Wolf01>i think some industries are better with gaps, others don't have any reason to have gaps
09:08<Wolf01>also, the gaps between buildings in the tyre plant disturbs me
09:08<@Alberth>make silos much less high?
09:09<@Alberth>tyre factory should have round buildings :p
09:09<@planetmaker>:D
09:10<V453000>im done
09:10<V453000>bunch of boxes andy :P
09:10<V453000>btw tires arent influenced by lighting and specular? needs bright pixels too
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10:11<andythenorth>cat factory
10:16<@Alberth>nah, cats can walk, they don't need tyres
10:16<andythenorth>how about a cat power station?
10:16<andythenorth>using the bad joke of a cat, falling, with buttered toast on its back
10:16<andythenorth>perpetually spinning
10:17<Wolf01>that's one thing i could expect from V, not from you ;)
10:17<@Alberth>I am not familiar with that joke, so it's lost on me
10:17<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttered_cat_paradox
10:17<Wolf01>also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yW5cyXXRc
10:20<@Alberth>Right, not very believable, is it?
10:21<@Alberth>Although I may be biased as I have seen the Myth busters episode where they investigated the buttered toast story :)
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>last time i heard about buttered toast, the opinion was that it doesn't have anything to do with the butter, but with the height that it falls down from
10:38<V453000>V is all about factories
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10:41<Eddi|zuHause>Vactories?
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>(in german "V" and "F" sounds are practically identical)
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11:15<@Alberth>Victories!
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12:55<Mazur>Found a bug in the rebular game lorry station: if you build a lorry station not beside an industry, it doesn't connect to it, even in the capture area.
12:55<Mazur>Join my still unprotected company on Stable, for instance, to see.
12:56<Mazur>Windingsgtone bay oil refinery, hover a lorry station along it;s edges.
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>Mazur: the oil refinery only collects cargo at very specific tiles (use the ? tool). the station must cover one of those
13:00<Mazur>Did not know that. Had trams not getting unloaded for a decade befor I noticed that.
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13:05<@Terkhen>hello
13:06<andythenorth>hola Terkhen
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13:08<andythenorth>bbl
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13:31<andythenorth>ho nice style in simutrans http://vs.simutrans.com/remote_images/BIG/sand_quarry_w_shovel_20131122.png
13:31<andythenorth>is simutrans any good?
13:34<andythenorth>it seems to have a more active community, and the art is better
13:36<@Alberth>hills are hardly vissible
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13:39<@planetmaker>hm, nice mine you show
13:43*andythenorth reads simutrans forums
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27466 /trunk/src/lang (hungarian.txt spanish.txt) (2015-12-04 19:45:14 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 1 changes by IPG
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
13:52<@peter1138>i wonder if it still has the really annoying track-laying and junctions...
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14:20<andythenorth>so eh
14:20<andythenorth>I have to draw a vehicle factory next
14:20<andythenorth>currently looks like this http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#vehicle_factory
14:20<andythenorth>same as machine shop
14:21<andythenorth>lame
14:21<@Alberth>hmm, unless you make very expensive hand made cars...
14:22<@Alberth>should have at least a car park
14:22<@Alberth>and possibly a truck with cars?
14:22<andythenorth>maybe
14:22<andythenorth>also I think distinctive buildings
14:23<andythenorth>FIRS has so many industries, keeping them distinctive is getting hard
14:23<andythenorth>but ones like this are unique http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#textile_mill
14:23<andythenorth>vehicle factory is just a big metal box though
14:25<@Alberth>yep, your boxes need to be bigger in area, I think
14:25<@Alberth>and some black car park
14:25-!-frosch123 [~frosch@x5f742e82.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
14:25<@Alberth>test track is optional for the serious manufacturer :)
14:25<@Alberth>quak
14:26<frosch123>hoin
14:27<andythenorth>I really dislike multi-tile industry buildings :)
14:27<@Alberth>hmm, you must dislike lots of FIRS industries then :p
14:27<andythenorth>I do :)
14:28<andythenorth>all buildings from last 3-4 years are single tile :D
14:29<@Alberth>you should do SMIB (small is beautiful)
14:29<andythenorth>maybe an approach like aluminium plant? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#aluminium_plant
14:29<andythenorth>the long buildings?
14:30<andythenorth>I like that one
14:30<@Alberth>too many chimneys, but yeah, it looks car-ish
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14:32<andythenorth>http://teknikensvarld.se/wp-content/uploads/import/images/global/nyheter/2012/10/16/saab-fabriken.jpg
14:32<andythenorth>long metal buildings in company colour?
14:32<@Alberth>looks very car-ish :)
14:32<andythenorth>Saab factory
14:33<andythenorth>+ office block + car parks
14:33<@Alberth>amazing how much space you'd need for a somewhat faithful reproduction of that factory
14:33<andythenorth>28x28 tiles probly
14:34<frosch123>what happened to baldy?
14:34<andythenorth>there are reasons we compress in game :D
14:34<@Alberth>I like the two different coloured buidings
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14:34<frosch123>no new topics in 3 days
14:34<andythenorth>white office block? o_O
14:34<andythenorth>might look nice
14:34<andythenorth>I could steal from the dairy, including the flags :P http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#dairy
14:34<@Alberth>ha :)
14:35<@Alberth>just the high part I guess?
14:36<@Alberth>saab thingie is much more white (smaller windows), by the looks of it
14:37<@Alberth>dairy looks good enough
14:43*andythenorth draws
14:44<Eearslya>meow
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15:29<andythenorth>start of vehicle factory https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/221eadcbf3ab/entry/graphics_sources/vehicle_factory/vehicle_factory.png
15:29<andythenorth>big and bigger buildings, to connect together
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15:36<drac_boy>hi
15:37<frosch123>andythenorth: i would expect some kind of beltsystem inside
15:37<frosch123>so, rather a long, possibly O or U shaped building
15:38<andythenorth>parts in one end, cars out the other?
15:38<frosch123>kind off
15:38<frosch123>-f
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15:43<@peter1138>heh, train fever for $8 (along with other crap) in the weekly humble bundle
15:44<@peter1138>slightly less than the £19.99 on steam right now
15:57<drac_boy>ah forgot about that game being around..
15:57*drac_boy wonders what it requires
16:01<@planetmaker>frosch123, a belt doesn't mean it's necessarily a long building. In the VW plant here in Wolfsburg they well bend and twist from one workstation to the other
16:01<@planetmaker>but then... the plant covers dozens of acres
16:02<drac_boy>hm I guess xp+apu looks just ok for that thing..guess I'll have to look more into that game again
16:14<Taede>b
16:18<drac_boy>b <? :)
16:21<andythenorth>bye
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16:29<drac_boy>either way be back later
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17:44<Wolf01>'night
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20:33<drac_boy>hi
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---Logclosed Sat Dec 05 00:00:04 2015