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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-12-10

---Logopened Thu Dec 10 00:00:12 2015
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02:20<Eearslya>kirtan: As far as I'm aware, it's already been fully ported. Could do what I've done, has a bunch of bugs to fix and little feature requests to do.
02:21<kirtan>Okay, also i don't see any standard C++ library in most includes like <vector> and <algorithm>. Any idea why?
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04:13<@peter1138>often standard c++ libraries are not used
04:24<@planetmaker>kirtan, the code is indeed somewhat in a transition stage between C and C++ where some parts are C++ and some remain C. Considering speed issues, converting everything cleanly to C++ might even be a very hard challange
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04:24<kirtan>Alright, is there anything that i could help with?
04:25<kirtan>Some code you want to rewrite...
04:25<@peter1138>not really transition
04:25<@peter1138>it's just... how it is
04:26<@peter1138> might be helpful in finding something to do
04:28<kirtan>I went there and wanted to avoid writing new code as i wan't yet fully familiar with code base, and that's why i was thinking of porting tasks as the code is already written so I thought it would be easier to do that
04:32<V453000>what openttd version of trunk do humanz use for android phones?
04:33<@peter1138>none, they're too small
04:33<V453000>oh :D
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04:37<@peter1138>Yikes, £600 for a bike light
04:38<V453000>soooo a guy who got openttd from the play store on android cant play trunk?
04:42<@peter1138>eh, anything on android is built with patches that aren't in trunk
04:42<@peter1138>unless that was all merged, but i doubt it.
04:43<V453000>I see
04:44<V453000>so the main openttd is not for phones and a dude called pylia is patching each stable release to release it on google play store
04:45<kirtan>Is there any way to update OpenTTD from command line in linux :/
04:45<blathijs>kirtan: What distribution?
04:45<blathijs>kirtan: How did you install it?
04:46<kirtan>Most probably downloaded from
04:46<blathijs>kirtan: You could copy the URL to the most recent .deb file, download it using "wget" or "curl", and install it using "dpkg -i"
04:47<kirtan>Can i install openttd from ppa?
04:47<kirtan>if there is one
04:47<kirtan>So i could update it from apt-get upgrade
04:48<blathijs>kirtan: Not sure, I don't think there is an apt source for the official builds. You could install from Debian testing/unstable, perhaps, those are usually updated pretty quickly
04:49<blathijs>(by yours truly)
05:02<@planetmaker>kirtan, if you want to develop anyway, the update command should be like svn update && make
05:03<@planetmaker>for automatic updates, there are several auto-updaters for openttd, which also can be used to get the version of your favourite multiplayer server
05:03<@peter1138>git pull :p
05:03<@planetmaker>hg pull :P
05:03<@planetmaker>but you need svn, if you want to play multiplayer from it
05:03<kirtan>Does svn has commit history like git?
05:03<@planetmaker>(imho something we should look into changing)
05:04<@planetmaker>kirtan, both a revision control systems. So yes, of course
05:04<@planetmaker>but for local playing around with source, use our mercurial or git mirrors. It's easier tinkering if you have the whole history locally
05:05<kirtan>That's what i was thinking
05:05<kirtan>So then i could just send a pull request and my change would be merged if approved right?
05:06<kirtan>Or is it mandatory to submit patches?
05:07<@peter1138>patches, sadly
05:07<@peter1138>the canonical system is svn, which doesn't have pull requests
05:08<kirtan>Who's the main contributor BTW
05:16<@planetmaker>the person with most commits ;) Officially it's rubi
05:17<@planetmaker>de-facto currently it's frosch
05:18<@planetmaker>But then, anyone listed in the 'developer' section in the readme has svn access
05:18<V453000>frog for king \o/
05:18<kirtan>dafaq cloned from svn, found 1.5M files
05:19<@planetmaker>lol, did you clone our svn root with every frigging tag since time eternal?
05:19<kirtan>looks like so
05:20<@planetmaker>:) You might even need to make a separate checkout for just trunk as our current svn version detection fails with the deep nesting trunk is found in
05:20<@planetmaker>for modern svn that is
05:21<kirtan>...and why isn't an auto-updater included in game itself?
05:23<V453000>I was like "1.5MB source is nothing, what did you do wrong?" Then I realized that it is in millions of individual files XD
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05:23<Wolf01>hi hi
05:30<@planetmaker>kirtan, it usually is not needed to play with the newest version always. And people might not want it to phone home
05:31<@planetmaker>and it requires the game being installed in userspace instead of by a distro (or it would require admin priviliges)
05:31<kirtan>Okay i've got 1.5.2 any majour changes in 1.5.3?
05:32<@planetmaker>no, the minor releases are bug-fix releases. The changelog will tell the exact ones.
05:32<kirtan>Alright, and what happened to the pinapple guy? The one who wanted to work full time on OpenTTD graphics?
05:33<V453000>busy with school and life stuff
05:33<V453000>the Pikka guy :)
05:33<kirtan>Yup him, it's sad he didn't made it through
05:34<kirtan>His graphics are the best i've seen
05:35<V453000>I only hate the way he handles vehicles in --- view
05:35<V453000>even if it is "proper" in 3D terms, it is definitely wrong in game graphics term
05:35<kirtan>Can you explain it?
05:36<@peter1138>planetmaker, quite often i get asked why it doesn't auto update
05:36<@peter1138>admittedly usually by the same person in #minecraft :p
05:40<V453000>kirtan: yeah, vehicles in OpenTTD are 1,41x longer on diagonal tracks than on straight tracks visually. That means if you render from one 3D model which has size 1, there are 40% gaps between wagons - like in pineapple trains
05:41<V453000>chinese trains somehow solve this issue but I do not yet know how, need more research
05:41<V453000>I solved it by stretching the model by 40% which obviously is not very nice either
05:41<kirtan>O.o that's interesting
05:42<V453000>point is, when you are looking at a train move and it makes a turn, on straight tracks pikka has a nice consistent train, and on diagonals suddenly a train with huge gaps
05:42<V453000>which makes a terrible impression graphically, in my opinion at least
05:43<V453000>but in general, his graphics are very get-the-job-done-in-the-right-amount-of-effort-to-get-nice-results, which is great
05:44<V453000>serious issues could appear with actual terrain though, that is a thing I would be very interested how is he doing that
05:44<V453000>cause terrain in x4 is shit
05:45<@peter1138>even the original graphics look a bit weird in those turns
05:45<V453000>look a bit weird != create huge gaps which make you think that those are not the same vehicles
05:45<@peter1138>i still prefer ukrs2 etc though, heh
05:45<@peter1138>V453000, er, some do!
05:46<@peter1138>original graphics often look very weird in north/south views too
05:46<kirtan>And another thing I noticed was his vehicles individually looks cool but when you put them toget
05:46<V453000>yeah, drawn graphics do not run into that issue because you are not going from one 3D file but drawing each individually
05:46<kirtan>-her they were'nt that impressive
05:46<@peter1138>anyway, if it's all rendered it's shouldn't be too much work to do it either way
05:46<V453000>yeah the || views in original are not great
05:47<@peter1138>once it's modelled everything else should be automatic ;)
05:47<V453000>if it is all rendered, then I am thinking the best approach is to make 2 different models, one for each of the lengths
05:47<V453000>anything else means stretching which is ugly and apparent, especially with round shapes
05:48<V453000>large wheels/balls of cargo/similar non-rectangular things are super prone to stretching
05:48<V453000>BUT if you do not focus on it too much, in general it looks a lot more connected and consistent
05:49<V453000>and that is what I think pikka is basically trading
05:49<V453000>first-sight looking good VS. making sense when inspecting things further
05:49<@peter1138>4x zoom was a waste that i regret ;p
05:50<V453000>that is a point that I would agree with but at the same time I think that screens are getting bigger and the adaptation kind of necessary
05:50<@peter1138>it started out as a replacement for the missing windows-only doubled up mode, but feature creep...
05:50<V453000>it just brings a completely different approach to making graphics which just shows so many hacks in openttd
05:51<@peter1138>should've just done 2x mode with doubled pixels and no messing with high res.
05:51<V453000>if people would continue to draw graphics by hand, there would be no issue at all
05:51<@peter1138>but then, everyone wanted high res becuase high res!
05:51<V453000>yeah moar pixulz
05:51<Eddi|zuHause>OpenTTD HD
05:52<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: for $100 on steam?
05:52<V453000>HD AS FUCK for $200?
05:53<@peter1138>Pfft, we'll need a VR version for Vive/Rift...
05:53<Eddi|zuHause>but we don't have any jumpscares
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>well, pikka kinda got close to that, with the gravel pit sound effect :p
05:57<V453000>regardless, 32bpp/EZ still needs a shitload of conventions how to do stuff PROPERLY. Which are not in zbase, they are not in pineapples, and they are not in my graphics either. Cutting ground tiles is a start in the right direction but I dont think the tile masks fit for my projects (mainly RAWR) 100%, although they are getting quite close.
05:57<V453000>then there is the wtf like CC masks, vehicle length in diagonals, ...
05:57<V453000>the fact that we can argue about camera angle one whole morning alone is showing something
05:58<@peter1138>nothing wrong with cc masks
05:59<V453000>non antialiased edges?
06:00<@peter1138>well it's 8bpp, so no
06:00<@peter1138>you could always extend it...
06:00<V453000>yes but you also want to use them for 32bpp
06:01<@peter1138>yes, 8bpp masks are suitable for 32bpp
06:01<@peter1138>just be careful with sharp edges
06:01<V453000>yes, Leou with the chinese trains does seem to solve it nicely with 8bpp masks in the right spots
06:01<V453000>but still it is kind of limited
06:02<@peter1138>so add an 8bpp alpha layer for cc masks
06:02<V453000>making it a luma or alpha mask would be much more suitable
06:02<V453000>yes something like that
06:02<@peter1138>32bpp/4x is already massive so it won't make it much more massive
06:03<V453000>well in the end it should reduce it because people would be motivated to use CC masks more, in any circumstance
06:03<@peter1138>don't get me to do it though
06:03<@peter1138>cos i'd be awkward
06:04<V453000>add 32bpp company colour sliders while at it, thanks
06:04<@peter1138>and treat it as 2 pieces of 4-bit data :P
06:04<@peter1138>hah, that was done
06:04<@peter1138>how many years ago now..
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>well, my suggestion was to have the mask be RGBA, with B mapping the 1st company colour, G mapping the 2nd company colour, and R an optional 3rd colour (for cargos, etc.). but this needs a new method of defining which colour to use
06:05<V453000>yes, that is a suggestion which makes sense to my non-programmer BFU self :)
06:05<@peter1138>that completely changes how cc mapping works
06:05<Eddi|zuHause>but maybe it's a change for the better?
06:06<@peter1138>good luck making it worth with 8bpp graphics
06:06<@peter1138>and if you want to scrap that
06:06<@peter1138>then just scrap everything and go 3d rendering with models
06:08<Eddi|zuHause>you can't do blinking stuff with this method anymore
06:08<Eddi|zuHause>or at least not easily
06:09<@peter1138>everyone turns that off anyway
06:09<V453000>what is blinking?
06:10<@peter1138>damn, i really want to see 3d done properly now :p
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: lighthouses, runways, fire, ...
06:18<V453000>ah that shit
06:18<V453000>pfft, make everything able to use multiple sprites like industries do
06:18<V453000>then people can easily create mini-sprite animations for that stuff
06:19<Wolf01>but what about the original graphics?
06:19<@peter1138>pixel shaders! vertex shaders! particle effects! bloom!
06:19<V453000>the stuff I sez would only work with 32bpp Wolf01 ?
06:19<@peter1138>yeah well
06:20<Wolf01>ah ok
06:20<V453000>peter1138 using multiple sprites is apparently not an issue with industries so it does not sound like that much of a terrible idea to me
06:20<@peter1138>i don't know what you are refering to
06:20<@peter1138>but most stuff uses multiple sprites
06:21<@peter1138>vehicle rotation...
06:21<@peter1138>vehicle loading
06:21<@peter1138>rail types :p
06:22<V453000>yes but at the same time
06:23<V453000>like industry has a base, then building sprites atop of it
06:23<V453000>ie I have a base which is not animated, and then atop of it is animated overlay or however is it called
06:23<V453000>which means the animation only takes the amount of pixels necessary, reducing total file size for same effect
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>vehicles don't have an animation counter, only a motion counter, which you cannot use during loading at stations
06:24<V453000>having an airport sprite, on top of which you could have the yellow dots animate, would make an animated airport without much mess
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: what you mean is called "child sprites"
06:24<@peter1138>i think everything with buildings already supports multiple sprites
06:25<V453000>well then! :D
06:25<V453000>that is the solution for missing blinking
06:25<@peter1138>no, cos that isn't anything related to animation
06:26<@peter1138>animation is custom, and different, per class
06:54<@peter1138>hmm, should i attempt to cycle 500km at the end of this month?
06:54<@peter1138>christmas eve to new years eve challenge
06:55<__ln__>that's too much
06:56<__ln__>@calc 500/7/1.609
06:57<@DorpsGek>__ln__: 44.3931456983
07:01<@peter1138>8 days
07:01<@peter1138>christmas eve included
07:01<@peter1138>@calc 500/8/1.609
07:01<@DorpsGek>peter1138: 38.844002486
07:02<@peter1138>Easily doable for some.
07:02<@peter1138>But I'm working for 3.5 of those days :S
07:03<@peter1138>So I have to do evening rides, or 70 miles a day for the remaining 4 days. Hmm.
07:04<@peter1138>Yeah, I think I won't :p
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>just do 125km on each of those 4 days :p
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>that's only like 5 hours :p
07:24<@peter1138>Not sure I could keep that up for 4 days
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07:33<Wolf01>does ottd work on the windows phone 10 (ex. the lumia 950xl)?
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07:47<@planetmaker>peter1138, but as display sizes increase, the 4x zoom would have been required by some even now. And honestly, I don't see how it hurts
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08:47<kirtan>If you guys like economy sim you might also enjoy Cities:Skyline
08:48<kirtan>Well if you are willing to spend some cash
08:48<kirtan>and have a low-end graphic card
08:48<kirtan>It's really amazing
08:49<@peter1138>I think some people here have it.
08:50<kirtan>Well it's worth it just for the graphics
08:50<__ln__>umm, are you sure it runs on a low-end graphics card?
08:51<kirtan>Mine is GT630 and ran fine on it
08:52<kirtan>Actually some time ago I use to pirate a LOT, and so I did C:S
08:52<kirtan>But then i stopped and turned to Open Source games
08:52<__ln__>i haven't bothered to follow what those model numbers mean today, but they say the minimum requirement is GTX 260 with 512 MB RAM, and 512 MB RAM doesn't sound terribly low-end.
08:55<kirtan>Well if you've built your system in recent years, and have dedicated graphics card, most likely it would be 1 GB or 512 MB atleast. I build mine ~3 years ago and got a 1G graphics.
08:56<kirtan>...and yes GT630 was considered low-end that time given its expensive price
08:57<kirtan>The owner of shop who happened to be very good friend of my dad told us - "If you go below this than it is as good as no graphic card"
08:57<kirtan>So, I sticked to that
08:59<kirtan>And considering what people get in their computers(2GB,4GB) 512MB would be considered low-end
09:03<@peter1138>Yeah, mine has 4GB.
09:03<@peter1138>Crazy amount...
09:04<@peter1138>Probably can't even use it all, but it's there.
09:04<kirtan>...and you play openttd on it
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09:08<slaca>hi guys, anyone use linux mint?
09:08<slaca>hi guys, i updated mint to 17.3 cinnamon yesterday, and since that i cannot minimize the openttd 1.5.3.
09:09<slaca>can hear the game sounds
09:09<slaca>but cant see the icon after minimizing
09:12<@peter1138>you can't minimize, or you can but suffer problems restoring?
09:12<slaca>cant restore
09:12<slaca>because nothing to click on
09:13<slaca>no openttd icon on the panel
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see how that would be openttd's fault
09:27<slaca>me neither, i thought someone use this linux too here, and maybe he managed to solve this issue
09:27<slaca>that's why i asked
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10:38<Eddi|zuHause>what are the chances that a thread with russian letters and "Pharma" in it is not spam?
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10:52<argoneus>that doesn't seem too probabl
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11:39<argoneus>how are my train friends doing
11:39<Wolf01>ran out of ideas
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11:40<argoneus>what are you ideaing
11:41<Wolf01>upscaling a lego moc i've build
11:41<Wolf01>my own/original creation
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11:44<argoneus>what lego
11:44<argoneus>like irl?
11:44<Wolf01>yes, irl
11:45<__ln__>Wolf01: have you been to legoland?
11:45<Wolf01>not yet
11:45<__ln__>aww, pity
11:45<__ln__>well i have
11:45<@peter1138>I have.
11:46<Wolf01>i'm planning to go to the gunzburg one
11:46<@peter1138>There's only one.
11:46<@peter1138>The rest are fake.
11:48<argoneus>l e g o
11:50<V453000>omfg what has this channel turned into
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>le(t it )go
11:52<Wolf01>we should switch to #openttd.offtopic and leave this one for general talk about openttd only :P
11:52<__ln__>would it be simpler to create #openttd.ontopic instead?
11:53<@Alberth>or talk about openttd in #openttd.offtopic?
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>why? that would only leave an empty channel...
11:53<@Alberth>indeed, /me loves all the off-topics
11:54<__ln__>you don't know it's empty unless you join it to witness that, and when you have joined, it's not empty.
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>every channel i'm not in must be empty.
11:54<@Alberth>believe me, a channel with people not talking is also empty
11:54<Wolf01>__ln__ is for sure Mr. Schrödinger
11:55<Wolf01>oh, a russian suggestion in the forum, let see what it does mean
11:56<Wolf01>it says to add pharmaceuticals and doctors to the game
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>deducing "pharma" was as far as my russian got me...
12:02<Wolf01>i just used google translate :P
12:02<Wolf01>i don't even try to read an unknown alphabet
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>that would be boring
12:03<Wolf01>the only time i try to read russian is when geoguessr put me there
12:04<Wolf01>about ottd instead, it would be possible to set a depot based refit or even better autoreplace?
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>well, the alphabet is not that tricky. half the letters are the same, and half of the others are easy to remember... just the other half half i have problems with
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>and then i still don't know any of the words
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12:08<argoneus>google translate?
12:09<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: half of the words are loanwords from western languages.
12:09<argoneus>what are you guys discussing gib link :<<
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: yes.
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: we are discussing the russian alphabet
12:10<argoneus>it's easy
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i said
12:10<argoneus>ah yeah that link Wolf01
12:10<argoneus>have fun with the russian spambots
12:11<Wolf01>yes i know they are spambots
12:11<Wolf01>i was just trying to be ehm.. funny
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12:39<Wolf01>see, questions about ottd are ignored in this #, it's really spammy
12:46<Zuu>I made a patch so that when clicking on online content from AI/GS window, it should again show both AIs and GSes. This uses the solution discussed yesterday with type1 and type2 parameters that both default to CONTENT_TYPE_END.
12:50<Zuu>Maybe it should have an assert for that type1 should be non CONTENT_TYPE_END if type2 is non CONTENT_TYPE_END.
12:52<Zuu>(in ShowNetworkContentListWindow)
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12:55<@Alberth>std::bitset<CONTENT_TYPE_END> types const reference?
12:56<@Alberth>handling them both types individually seems fine to me
12:56<Zuu>Could use const.
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12:56<@Alberth>at least it doesn't look like anything break if you use type2 only
12:57<Zuu>My first though was that nothing breaks. But it will request all content in that case. Due to:
12:58<@Alberth>add a line if (type1 == CONTENT_TYPE_END) { type1 = type2; type2 = CONTENT_TYPE_END; } ?
12:59<@Alberth>or an assert :)
13:00<Zuu>I think an assert would be most clean.
13:03<Zuu>I may be tired, but I get it to this not so short assert: assert(type2 == CONTENT_TYPE_END || type1 == CONTENT_TYPE_END || (type1 != CONTENT_TYPE_END && type2 != CONTENT_TYPE_END))
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13:08<@Alberth>type1 != CONTENT_TYPE_END || type2 == CONTENT_TYPE_END ?
13:09<Zuu>That is it yep :-)
13:09<@Alberth>(type1 != CONTENT_TYPE_END /* && type2 doesn't matter */) || (/*type1 is END && */ type2 == CONTENT_TYPE_END)
13:11<Zuu>Updated patch with const reference and assert. Also clarified in doxygen this requriement on type1 and type2.
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13:15<@Alberth>please add a #, like #CONTENT_TYPE_END doxygen makes a link to the enum then
13:16<@Alberth>and variable references are with \a if \a type2 .... then also ... \a type1 ...
13:18<@Alberth>if (type2 != type1) _network_content_client.RequestContentList(type2); <-- you're doing a CONTENT_TYPE_END request if only type1 is given?
13:18<Zuu>Both type1 and type2 have default value CONTENT_TYPE_END.
13:19<Zuu>So if you want that, you pass cv=NULL and can even omitt both type1 and type2.
13:21<@Alberth>no other comments
13:21<Zuu>Thanks Alberth for having a look at it.
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13:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r27468 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2015-12-10 19:28:01 +0100 )
13:28<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27444): Game Scripts were not displayed in the content download window when opened from the AI/GS settings window.
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13:42<Zuu>Hello andythenorth
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14:30<frosch123>Zuu: + if (type2 != type1) _network_content_client.RequestContentList(type2); <- that looks weird
14:30<frosch123>if you only pass type1, and leave type2 as default, it request everythnig
14:31<frosch123>i think it should be "if (type2 != CONTENT_TYPE_END)"
14:31<Zuu>You are right
14:32<frosch123>no idea what happens if "type1 == CONTENT_TYPE_END && type1 == type2"
14:33<frosch123>does it request the same thing twice then?
14:33<frosch123>maybe it could be put into the assertion
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14:33<Zuu>type1 and type2 equal has to be allowed for the main content list.
14:33<Zuu>But it shouldn't fetch the list twice.
14:34<Zuu>type2 != CONTENT_TYPE_END solves that.
14:35<frosch123>yeah, but in the theoretical case that type1=NEWGRF and type2=NEWGRF, it would fetch it twice
14:35<frosch123>but it makes no sense to call the function that way anyway :)
14:35<Zuu>Oh yes. That could have an assert and mention in the doxygen.
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14:45<frosch123>looks fine
14:45<Eearslya>Oh, speaking of patches, I did submit a patch to fix FS#6386 a while back
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14:52<Zuu>Eearslya: Will that not make the buttons at the bottom of the window go out of the screen?
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14:54<Eearslya>It will, but the player can move the window if they need to; this simply prevents the text overflowing onto the buttons and such
14:54*andythenorth should learn how to patch the station building UI :P
14:54<Zuu>How would you move the window if not with the title bar?
14:56<Eearslya>Wait, which buttons are you talking about?
14:56<Zuu>There is a button at the bottom that says 'Do it'.
14:57<Zuu>And another to resize the window.
14:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r27469 trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp (2015-12-10 20:58:33 +0100 )
14:58<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27468): Don't fetch all content info from content server when showing a online content window with exactly one type of content.
15:00*andythenorth wonders what the optimum number of nodes is in a pax network with cdist
15:00<Eearslya>Ah, right. Still, I don't understand the question..The patch wouldn't make the title bar inaccessible..
15:00<Zuu>andythenorth: Is there a table somewhere for what town effect the FIRS cargoes have?
15:01<andythenorth>probably not
15:01*andythenorth looks
15:01<Zuu>Eearslya: No, but how do you move the window top beyond the top of the screen?
15:01<andythenorth>not there
15:01<andythenorth>do you want me to patch it?
15:01<Zuu>I could make a GS. :-)
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15:02<Zuu>People keep asking questions regarding playing Neighbours are important with FIRS. :-)
15:02<Eearslya>..Ah. I see your point. I was working under the assumption the window top would be in the middle of the screen, I didn't think that people might have an even -lower- resolution than 800x600.. XD
15:04<@Alberth>suggesting to make a GS is dangerous with andy, you know, zuu?
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15:04<andythenorth>Zuu: I’ve pushed a docs change
15:04<@Alberth>Eearslya: mobile things and all that :)
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>gui zoom?
15:05<@Alberth>that too
15:05<Eearslya>So in that case, the only universal fix would be to add a srollbar. Fun.
15:05<Zuu>Or reduce the maximum number of companies ;-)
15:06<Zuu>But with a large enough font size, it will still not work even with one company. :-)
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>still missing this x1.5 gui zoom...
15:07<andythenorth>that would be optimal
15:07<andythenorth>but 2x is better than 1x :P
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>also, a font picker window
15:08<andythenorth>Alberth: the monitoring of new possible goals is not foolproof :)
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: whenever you make something foolproof, someone invents a bigger fool
15:11<andythenorth>mind that I don’t pay any attention to town effect, so they might be nonsense
15:11<andythenorth>someone should sort that out
15:11<andythenorth>also the cargo graph colours are all nonsense :P
15:11*andythenorth just noticed
15:11<Zuu>People get confused about your Goods not having town effect goods.
15:12<Zuu>Instead it is petrol that has this effect.
15:12<andythenorth>for reasons I no longer recall :P
15:12<andythenorth>ha ha
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15:12<andythenorth>town effect should be refactored
15:13<andythenorth>$everyone thinks goods and town cargos should grow towns
15:13<andythenorth>what does grow towns? I never understand
15:13<Zuu>Depends on the GS ;-)
15:13<@Alberth>buses? :)
15:13<andythenorth>I think buses do it
15:13<andythenorth>maybe Busy Buses GS?
15:14<Zuu>But GS can tell OpenTTD that min Y cargo units during a month should be delviered in total from cargoes having town effect Z in order for the town to grow.
15:14<andythenorth>but not unless the GS I am using supports that :)
15:18<frosch123>the goods town effect is a myth
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15:23<Eddi|zuHause>some urban myths never die
15:25<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> for reasons I no longer recall :P <-- iirc you needed something that has TE_WATER
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>and then everything went crazy
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15:29<Zuu>andythenorth: I may come with bad news to you, but busy bee do use town effects in Cargo::GetWeight (in main.nut).
15:30<frosch123>a ton of water is heavier than a ton of goods?
15:30<Zuu>Weight here affects the likelihood for the cargo to get picked as a goal cargo.
15:31<andythenorth>the weights are a mess :P
15:33<@Alberth>they are all 1 by default :)
15:34<@Alberth>also, blame houses not to have proper input and output cargoes :p
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15:35<andythenorth>we could fix that? o_O
15:36<andythenorth>I have one town with only two pickup stations, which is growing insanely :P
15:36*andythenorth still doesn’t understand the growth mechanic :D
15:37<Zuu>growth increase by number of (serviced) stations you have in the town up to 5. But IIRC having only one is worse than zero.
15:38<Zuu> from FS#6378
15:40<_dp_>hi, one is better than 0, with 0 it doesn't grow usually :P
15:41<Zuu>You see the numbers on line 13-14. Those give the number of 70 tick intervals between town growth.
15:41<Zuu>First value is 0 stations, second 1 etc.
15:41<Zuu>Hi _dp_ you have a highlight on your FS#? :-)
15:42<_dp_>and that is only growth rate part, there are also funding and required cargos(water, food) involved.
15:42<Zuu>I still attempt to get it in, but haven't got around yet to find time to split it into parts.
15:42<_dp_>what kind of highlight do you expect?)
15:43<Zuu>I mean like this _dp_
15:43<Zuu>Eg. that the client flashes or so when your name is mentioned.
15:43<Zuu>Most IRC clients can also have a list of words that it will highlight on.
15:44<_dp_>ah, no, just happened to check chat at same time)
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15:44<frosch123>like earthquake
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19:09*drac_boy pokes sim-a12 with an imperial measured wrench? ;)
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>how would we know?
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19:30<sim-al2>Ahh. Not imperial units!
19:30<drac_boy>heh I never liked them either :)
19:31<drac_boy>hows you anyhow?
19:31<Mazur>Unless they're french.
19:31<Mazur>Bonaparte styled himself emperor for a while...
19:32<sim-al2>I'm good. Caculations with the old customary units get interesting... I suspect many people haven't used slug units instead of pounds...
19:33<drac_boy>heh well tbh its a bit strange but some of the times when I ask someone (and this place is nowwhere close to any usa borders btw) about litres to kilometer they give me a blank face like they don't even know what thats supposed to mean
19:34<drac_boy>(and on a funny note.. lower mpg in usa is worser but lower l/100km in canada is better ... talk about going opposited)
19:34<drac_boy>mazur at least you hopefully don't have to deal with services/products that comes in half-n-half
19:35<sim-al2>Yeah, distance vs volume usage :)
19:35<drac_boy>there was at least one ford car (I forgot model) that for example had metric at one end and SAE at other end of the one brake cable :-s
19:36<sim-al2>I think lots of GM products went that way too, with some parts still using imperial unit specs and the rest metric
19:37<sim-al2>In theory the government is actual fully metric too, it's just popular culture that never changed over
19:37<Mazur>No, we have no remnants of older measurement systems left over here.
19:38<Mazur>Well, our ships still sail in knots, but that only stands to reason.
19:38<drac_boy>sim-a12 at least there are still a small but decent % of cars in canada that only have km/h alone on the speedometer (these came during the Canadian Auto Pact thats now long been axed basically afaik)
19:38<sim-al2>Oh, I suppose lots of US companies starting packing in liters instead of quarts, slightly smaller volume for the same price
19:39<drac_boy>even the subaru legacy had that for a while in first generation .. then when the pact died you could see the usual mph+kph combo speedometers instead
19:39<sim-al2>Aren't most cars up there marked in both? Many US vehicles have dual markings (although some US pickup trucks don't)
19:40<Mazur>You'll get there, eventually, and then you can start landing lading stuff successfully on Mars, even.
19:40<drac_boy>well during the pact period (or what I can tell from limit of online photos) you could actually get kph-only
19:41<Mazur>I bet in Texas and Alabama there's not a km/h in sight.
19:41<sim-al2>Texas actually has some signs near the border for the cross-border trucks
19:41<drac_boy>and btw I'm not sure re quarts/litres .. but I think it may partially also be to do with cooking (as I can't recall seeing a book that mentioned "1 1/2 quart of milk" but I'll be happy to stand corrected if necessary tho)
19:42<sim-al2>In Alabama, you are lucky if the road is drivable in the first place...
19:42<drac_boy>alabama? why?
19:42<sim-al2>It's Alabama :)
19:43<sim-al2>(redneck sterotypes galore)
19:44<drac_boy>umm I'm just seeing a lot of normal pavements when I look for alabama online? :P
19:44<Mazur>Last 16th century place left on Earth.
19:44<sim-al2>I don't know about 16th century, but they defintely have problems leaving the 20th
19:46<sim-al2>Alabama has some questionable road maintenance, even the interstates tend to be left with no fixes until they just grind the whole thing down and repave
19:46<sim-al2>Mississippi is worse because they never actual fix the road
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19:47<drac_boy>hmm sounds like a decent place for non-lowered cars :)
19:48<sim-al2>Yeah, as much as I hate the jacked-up trucks it is somewhat functional, especially if you go on country "maintained" roads
19:48<drac_boy>actually you don't even need it to be jacked up...
19:49<drac_boy>its usually just the same actual clearance unless you go with fancy hummer-like axles :)
19:49<drac_boy>(I dunno of anyone else who make geared tire assembly....unimog maybe but not sure)
19:49<sim-al2>Keeps the body off the ground
19:49<drac_boy>wouldn't matter
19:51<sim-al2>Most of these people don't go off-road anyway, or at best drive through the mud until they get stuck
19:53<sim-al2>Besides fancy off-road axles get really expensive when you could use that money to put on a 4ft fake exhaust stack on your V8 gasoline truck
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>my boss drives unimog ralleys
19:55<Eddi|zuHause>they drive to remote places in like poland or romania, and then go 100km off-road
19:55<sim-al2>Unimogs are nearly non-existant here, people either build custom rigs or buy ex-military trucks
19:55<Eddi|zuHause>our military has plenty of unimogs :p
19:55<drac_boy>or just use a decent suv with standard sized tires? (thats what I had anyway..long story with that heh)
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>i believe the unimog my boss uses is ex-military
19:57<sim-al2>Off-road is really a self-reinforcing hobby here, there's not too many places where a truck or SUV with decent ground clearence can't reach
19:58<sim-al2>Even the worse public roads are at least driveable, with exceptions of course (certain mountain roads, national parks, and all bets are off with the little private access tracks)
20:02<drac_boy>just as long as you don't drive like ace ventura :)
20:03<Mazur>But he parks right in the spot, and without a scratch on his car.
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20:04<drac_boy>mazur least *it* was a small suv built out of real steel (even as its small engine power could make it a little slow at times) ....
20:05<drac_boy>if he had tried the same thing with anything else built in the 90's or later .. it might had completely blow apart early on
20:05<drac_boy>and sim-a12 if you're wondering this is the scene in question .. and yep poor little animal really afraid of ace's recklessness!
20:08<sim-al2>Ah, the old school Land Rover, a vehicle know for its speed and power... 0.o
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20:10<drac_boy>well at least the last generation of the old 'series' had an engine option for close to 100hp but ehh yeah :)
20:11<sim-al2>The real question is why they have the monkey with them... I know this is a 90's film but that doesn't really make any sense
20:11<drac_boy>sim-a12 its probably due to ace ventura tbh :)
20:11<drac_boy>he had this purple(ish or was it some strange blue offtone?) muscle car that had a silly little poodle for a ride in many scenes
20:13<drac_boy>either way I'll let you two have some fun.. I'm going off for a bit re some night papers :-s
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 11 00:00:13 2015