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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-12-11

---Logopened Fri Dec 11 00:00:13 2015
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10:26<Wolf01>random argument of the day?
10:28-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
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10:28<Wolf01>or just a how difficult could be adding an "autoreplace anything which enters this depot to a new consist, automatically purchasing and selling the rolling stock"?
10:28<Wolf01>o/
10:28<@Alberth>o/
10:29<@Alberth>given newgrf capabilities, non-trivial at least
10:34<Wolf01>i'm trying to figure out how to simulate shunting (i don't really need it to be visible) so you can just configure the orders and send trains to a depot which rebuilds the entire train as autoreplace/autorenew does, and keeping the orders
10:35<Wolf01>the main problem is that if you do it every time you'll waste big money, but with a sort of "cache" of the rolling stock inside the depot it might be cool
10:39<@Alberth>but if you rebuild from consist A to B every time in the same depot, wouldn't it stack a lot of "old" A wagons that are never used again?
10:39<@Alberth>(and you build B -> A at another depot
10:39<@Alberth>)
10:40<Wolf01>eh that is the problem
10:40<Wolf01>you might need to run a consist just to move the rolling stock from one depot to the other one every now and then
10:45<Wolf01>but this sounds too much "R", so let the game stay as it is and we are all happy
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10:55<@Alberth>something refit wagons seems like a nicer solution, perhaps
10:56<Wolf01>but the refit doesn't change the wagon, you might need an universal cargo wagon or just refit to the compatible ones, as it works on stations now
10:56<Wolf01>i want to change from hopper to flatbed for example, and the number of wagons too
10:57<Wolf01>maybe even the engine
10:57<@Alberth>ah, refit limitations :(
10:58<@Alberth>ha "engine" :)
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10:58<Wolf01>also the autoreplace is global, refit at stations is done on stations (so no consist change, just the paper attached to the wagon)
10:59<@Alberth>I don't think RL would consider engines to be rolling stock that you have to move, do they? :)
11:00<@Alberth>afaik you can also do refit in depot?
11:00<@Alberth>never tried it though
11:00<Wolf01>i don't know, never tried
11:01<Wolf01>iirc, some times i've seen unpowered engines attached to another consist just to be moved to a different station
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12:21<V453000>hi humanz, what do I need to install to compile newGRFs for openttd?
12:21<V453000>last time we seemed to have concluded that I dont need vc redistributable
12:21<V453000>but what then :D
12:23<V453000>I read NML needs python 3.5.1, I installed that
12:23<V453000>I forgot how to install NML though
12:25<@Alberth>you said yesterday PLY and Pillow, which sounds about right
12:26<V453000>yes but then somebody said I dont need that :d
12:26<V453000>I tried installing pillow but it didnt find python
12:26<V453000>or something
12:27<V453000>Windows users can install the windows binary which contains a binary which bundles (most) required libraries.
12:27<V453000>but what binary
12:28<V453000>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/LATEST/ ?
12:28<V453000>is the zip considered a binary? it only has nmlc in it
12:28<V453000>is that it?
12:30<@Alberth>windows binary is an exe file, normally
12:30<V453000>well yeah
12:30<V453000>only exe is nml
12:30<V453000>readme says run setup.py which I cant see
12:33<V453000>*only exe is nmlc
12:34<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvvxbnwub nightly doesn't seem to have a readme
12:34<@Alberth>it's probably safe to ignore the readme
12:34<@Alberth>the python.dll is used
12:34<V453000>o
12:34<V453000>python33.dll?
12:35<@Alberth>that's the one :)
12:35<V453000>how do I ... "use" it?
12:35<V453000>clicking stuff aint helping, windoze user is lost
12:35<@Alberth>in a command.com shell type "nmlc -h"
12:37<V453000>just anywhere?
12:37<V453000>or do I go to the NML folder?
12:37<@Alberth>just like all previous versions of nml
12:38<@Alberth>in the nml folder would be a good idea
12:38<V453000>I haz no version of nml here and dont remember how old one did it :P
12:38<V453000>right
12:38<V453000>should this NML folder I unpacked the zip to, be the same folder as where NML will be in the end?
12:38<V453000>aka atm it is in C:\NML
12:38<@Alberth>although you can probably type "path\to\the\nmlc.exe" -h
12:39<V453000>should it be C:\NML-install and then put the product into C:\NML?
12:39<@Alberth>c:\nml\nmlc -h would work probably
12:39<@Alberth>I don't think the exe is an install, it's the final product already
12:40<V453000>right that is what I thought
12:40<@Alberth>but you can rename the directory to be on the safe side
12:40<V453000>ah -h is help :D
12:40<V453000>ok that worked
12:40<@Alberth>I have no idea what's packed into the windows distribution :)
12:40<@Alberth>great
12:41<V453000>I guess I need to somehow teach python the nmlc command or something?
12:41<@Alberth>nmlc --grf=blah.grf blah.nml
12:41<V453000>or windows cmd to be taught the command?
12:41<V453000>hm
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12:41<V453000>that means the grf needs to be in the same folder as NML, right?
12:42<V453000>cause I am pretty sure that is how my .bat compile things look
12:42<@Alberth>you can probably specify a path to nmlc
12:42<@Alberth>ie d: cd d:\some\where
12:42<@Alberth>c:\nml\nmlc -h should work then
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12:43<V453000>ooo
12:43<V453000>I might be doing that already
12:43<V453000>am not :_
12:43<V453000>:)
12:44<@Alberth>if that works, you can stick the command in a .bat file
12:44<V453000>looks like it works
12:44<V453000>spriteset parameter error, so it is compiling, my code just has shit in it
12:44<V453000>thanks :D I cant believe it was this simple
12:45<@Alberth>computers are simple-minded creatures, the only problem is knowing how to handle them :p
12:45<@Alberth>but yw :)
12:46<@Alberth>and great that my 20+years old windows knowledge still works :p
12:47<V453000>XD
12:48<V453000>well I did remember that I did set it up somehow super simply at work, but all the wiki and readme confused me to hell
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12:52<frosch123>V453000: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/entry/compileNUTS.bat <- some people do it like that
12:53<V453000>frosch yes that is actually where I copied it from :P I just added the path C:\..
12:53<V453000>works now :)
12:53<V453000>also it is cute how it reveals that I compiled it at work because that was my windows username there XD at home I only have the first name
12:54<@Alberth>quak
12:54<frosch123>hoin
12:54<Wolf01>k
12:55<frosch123>V453000: what? your username is not V ?
12:55<V453000>:)
12:55<V453000>not at work
12:56<frosch123>i thought you were some fancy startup company, no old establishment :p
12:57<V453000>300 humans company with proper IT stuff
12:57<frosch123>i meant your new company
12:57<Wolf01>the team photo says 10
12:57<frosch123>and btw. there is no such thing as "proper IT stuff"
12:57<V453000>new company is 10 humans yes :)
12:58<V453000>I am not compiling openttd shit at factorio office though ;)
12:58<V453000>yeah
12:58<V453000>because fuck IT :>
12:58<V453000>shots fired
12:58<frosch123>you should write a FFF and only talk about ottd :p
12:58<V453000>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p5bpppsv2 also why does this tell me Spriteset parameter 1 'name' should be an identifier?
12:59<frosch123>no "-" allowed
12:59<V453000>oh shitballs
12:59<frosch123>"-" is minus
12:59<V453000>:D
12:59<V453000>XD
12:59<V453000>yeah I learned to use - in files lately
12:59<V453000>fucking christ need to rename the files then
12:59<Wolf01>uhm, now i'm bored, i just coded the entire xml level loading
12:59<frosch123>the files? why?
13:00<V453000>no I just need to change the identifier
13:00<V453000>my brain is offline
13:00<frosch123>the stuff between " is fine
13:00<frosch123>nml just doesn't know how to subtrract rail1_overlays from GEAR :)
13:00<Wolf01>also shit happens, i hit the credit card limit this month
13:01<Wolf01>so no "new fun stuff"
13:01<V453000>unexpected token ; .............. ;_;
13:02<Wolf01>then don't put ; at end of the lines
13:02<V453000>yeah :)
13:02<V453000>it just usually is ; missing
13:02<V453000>oh fuck me right up
13:03<V453000>seriously this can only happen to me
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13:04<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/GEAR/nice.png
13:04<V453000>victory
13:04<V453000>wat do? XD report?
13:06<frosch123>what does your usage of "sort" look like?
13:06<V453000>the newgrf doesnt even really have anything in it XD
13:06<V453000>ah
13:06<V453000>nothing atm
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13:07<frosch123>you mean you left [] empty?
13:07<V453000>yeah
13:07<V453000>works now with it commented out
13:07<frosch123>ok, that's it then :)
13:09<frosch123>Alberth: making no-white-space-changes diffs for python code kind of fails :p
13:09<@Alberth>:D
13:09<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvxjvmygu?/pvxjvmygu <- so, well
13:09<V453000>yay compiled for the first time
13:09<V453000>blow the champagne
13:09<V453000>that sounds very nsfw
13:09<frosch123>i guess making it a NOP is fine, no error
13:10<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/_FACTORIO/Factorio-in-a-nutshell.gif
13:10<V453000>:>
13:11<frosch123>looks like an ios game
13:11<Wolf01>eheh
13:11<frosch123>(without the automate)
13:12<frosch123>"Makefile.config:10: *** Too many open files. Stop." <- trying to compile nuts :p
13:13<V453000>it is a joke we have with Albert at the office; we enjoy the relation between factorio spirit and us automating anything we can at work
13:14<@Alberth>interesting to make last = vehid_list[0] :)
13:14<@Alberth>but if an empty list is a proper result, looks ok to me
13:14<frosch123>well, i could change it to len > 1 actually
13:14<frosch123>sorting one vehicle :p
13:15<@Alberth>is always trivially correct :)
13:17<frosch123>why are makefiles from coop always completely broken?
13:17<frosch123>Makefile.config including Makefile.config?
13:18<+glx>usually copy paste and people not knowing what they are doing ;)
13:20<@Alberth>overly generic makefile setups :)
13:21<V453000>oh yeah I need to define at least 1 vehicle to see the track set XD
13:21<V453000>fak
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27470 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2015-12-11 19:45:09 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>turkish - 69 changes by wakeup
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14:36<andythenorth>o/
14:37<@Alberth>o/
14:38<andythenorth>is cats
14:38<andythenorth>also hogs
14:39<Wolf01>o/
14:49<V453000>ARE YOU CATS_
14:49<V453000>?
14:50<andythenorth>maybe
14:53-!-drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
14:53<drac_boy>hi
14:53<andythenorth>more Hog
14:53<drac_boy>OINK? :P
14:53<drac_boy>heh
14:55<drac_boy>so..working on firs as usual I assume?
14:56*andythenorth needs more goals
14:56*andythenorth patches BB
14:57<drac_boy>heh ok
14:57<andythenorth>let’s try 20 goals
14:58<andythenorth>will it work with my savegame? :P
14:58<andythenorth>no
14:58<andythenorth>the setting is baked in
14:58<V453000>will it blend
14:58<andythenorth>bah
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15:07<frosch123>juicy cat - real filtered cat juice
15:12<drac_boy>either way just curious about anyone else in here re if it was rather more specific to ussr or did any other countries have steam locomotives with full-wrap handrails as a provision to slippery weathers? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Russian_Class_U_locomotive_Number_U127.JPG/1024px-Russian_Class_U_locomotive_Number_U127.JPG
15:13<V453000>trying to avoid brain farts: original sprite template was x 128 y 128 sprite size ... I only change sprite size to 256*320, putting -128 to X offsets and -192 to each Y offset should keep the sprite look the same, right?
15:13<V453000>vehicles were centered at the center of the sprite in both cases
15:13<drac_boy>(then again it almost seem the same styling you'll find on emd gp7 etca when it comes to much later diesels tho)
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15:22<drac_boy>hi sim-a12 :)
15:22<drac_boy><is just trying to sort out a bit of steam locomotives atm
15:24<V453000>too real
15:25<Mazur>Are you pulling my plonker?
15:28*drac_boy gives mazur some unplonker?
15:30<Mazur>No? Who's pulling my plonker, then?
15:30<drac_boy>no idea, but not me for sure :)
15:34<@Alberth>andythenorth: {BLACK}Processes pyrite ore into metal and chemicals.{}{}Cargo production:{} 4t + 4,000l per 8t delivered this looks somewhat wrong compared to the other strings?
15:35<andythenorth>it does doesn’t it
15:35<andythenorth>I can’t think how to do it better
15:36<@Alberth>Cargo production:{} 8 crates per 8,000l petrol delivered{} 8 crates per 8t metal delivered a bit more wordy, like <---
15:36<@Alberth>oh, it's the other way around, sorry
15:37<@Alberth>still, 4t metal and 4,000l chemicals per 8t pyrite delivered
15:40<andythenorth>ok
15:40<andythenorth>will change
15:40<andythenorth>working on that industry anyway, by coincidence
15:40<@Alberth>what's a supply yard?
15:41<@Alberth>ah, delving fools gold :p
15:44<andythenorth>supply yard is just a place to arbitrarily make engineering supplies and so :D
15:46*andythenorth pushes changes
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15:51<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> looks like an ios game <-- then "automate" would be "spend 2$ to make this action instant."
15:59<V453000>guys does my stuff make sense pls_
15:59<V453000>?
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16:00<V453000>trying to avoid brain farts: original sprite template was x 128 y 128 sprite size ... I only change sprite size to 256*320, putting -128 to X offsets and -192 to each Y offset should keep the sprite look the same, right? [21:13] <V453000> vehicles were centered at the center of the sprite in both cases
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, if you add transparent stuff at the bottom and right of the sprite, the anchor shouldn't need changing
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>(but i haven't touched a sprite in years)
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>if you add transparent stuff at the top or left, the anchor should be moved
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>if you add transparent stuff to both sides, anchor should be moved by 1/2
16:15<Mazur>If you centered the image, the offset is x: -64, y: -96
16:16<Mazur>(half the additional size.)
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17:24<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Dec 12 00:00:15 2015