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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-12-12

---Logopened Sat Dec 12 00:00:15 2015
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03:07<andythenorth>o/
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05:33<@Alberth>hoi
05:34<frosch123>hola
05:35<@planetmaker>moin
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05:36<Wolf01>o/
05:36<@Alberth>o/
05:37<frosch123>all weirdos arrived
05:37<frosch123>channel operational
05:37<Wolf01>the post office is a pita
05:37<Wolf01>:D frosch123
05:40<V453000>heyo
05:40<V453000>ok so my vehicle offsets fucked up
05:40<V453000>what else would I have expected
05:41<@Alberth>everything going according to plan thus :p
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05:46<V453000>idk why did I make vehicle sprites 256x320
05:46<V453000>consistency, duh
05:49<Wolf01>http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2015/12/11/a-whole-coders-life/ eh
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05:52<@Alberth>haha :)
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05:55<V453000>offsets to be shat upon later
05:55<V453000>bai
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06:42<V453000>how do I use this in NML please? :d
06:42<V453000>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Motion_counter_.2846.29
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07:06<argoneus>good morning train friends
07:06<argoneus>oh V453000 I wanted to ask you somethink
07:06<argoneus>but it was at like 4am and I didn't want to ping you and now I forgot ffuuck
07:07<Wolf01>o/
07:07<argoneus>hi Wolf01 man
07:08<argoneus>hey Wolf01 ever tried dytech or bob?
07:08<Wolf01>no
07:08<Wolf01>i usually play vanilla
07:08<Wolf01>except ottd and elder scrolls games
07:08<argoneus>what do you do after 30 hours
07:08<argoneus>when you have everything
07:09<argoneus>and biters aren't a threat either
07:09<frosch123>V453000: you need a cyclic animation where the number of frames is a power of two
07:09<frosch123>so 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, ... frames
07:09<Wolf01>i build a rocket silo and finish the game
07:09<argoneus>oh
07:09<Wolf01>or i just continue to play and expand
07:11<argoneus>oh I remember now
07:11<argoneus>V453000: did you move to prague for the job?
07:11<argoneus>or do you still live in that small city you mentioned that i forgot
07:16<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: so, why is motion_counter in nml only 4 bits?
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: wasn't me...
07:16<frosch123>i can see some reasoning behind dropping the lower 8 bits
07:16<frosch123>but not in seeing the rest
07:16<frosch123>is it just bollocks?
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: lowest 4 bits is the movement over one tile
07:17<frosch123>well, not really
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, sort of
07:17<frosch123>it will get out of sync in corners and when reversing
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>yes
07:17<frosch123>so, if that was the original idea, it is broken :p
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>i always thought that, too :p
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07:19<V453000>frosch123: I have 16
07:19<frosch123>so, put them in a witch
07:19<frosch123>*switch
07:19<V453000>yeah
07:19<frosch123>and use getbits(motion_count, 0, 4)
07:19<frosch123>or get_bits, can't remember
07:20<V453000>:d
07:20<V453000>oh
07:20<V453000>getbits(motion_counter,0,4){0: frame0, ...} ?
07:20<frosch123>yes
07:21<V453000>okay lets try :D
07:24<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i changed nml
07:30<V453000>frosch123: can I have such animation repeat 4 times per tile?
07:39<V453000>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqtuinjrz#line-98 line 98 says "Passing parameters to 'spriteset_train_GEAR_01
07:39<V453000> is only possible from a spritelayout
07:40<V453000>I guess that means I cant define sprites like this?
07:40<V453000>did in YETI :d
07:47<V453000>looks like it works XD
07:48<V453000>except I need it 4 times faster
07:49<V453000>do I just do getbits(motion_counter,0,6)
07:49<V453000>and then ranges 0..16:frame0 ?
08:01<frosch123>V453000: nml only gives you coordinates by default. if you want it finer you have to use some magic: var[0x46, 4, 0xF] instead of getbits(...)
08:02<V453000>aha
08:02<frosch123>but well, i am not sure whether it would actually work in ottd
08:02<V453000>xd
08:02<frosch123>maybe ottd only redraws the train when it actually moves
08:02<frosch123>so, more than 16 frames per tile may not work
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08:06<V453000>I can eventually reduce the count
08:07<V453000>but with slower speed it would not be nice
08:07<V453000>it is doing some silly shit regardless
08:07<frosch123>well, vehicles won't move any smoother :p
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08:09<V453000>each of the functions seems to operate completely differently :d
08:11<V453000>hm
08:11<V453000>yeah 16 looks shitty
08:11<V453000>it kind of works, 32 would be enough
08:13<V453000>not the best idea, I know https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/GEAR/test00.png
08:19<argoneus>that's some steampunk shit right there
08:19<frosch123>poor yeti needs a seat
08:21<V453000>guess it wont happen argoneus
08:21<V453000>16 frames per tile are not enough
08:22<frosch123>are they limited to 10km/h ?
08:22<V453000>120 for test atm
08:22<V453000>hm point
08:24<V453000>well increasing speed to like 250kmh actually makes the effect kind of get lost XD
08:25<frosch123>30fps :)
08:25<frosch123>the wheels start to turn backwards at certain speeds :)
08:25<V453000>yeah
08:25<V453000>kind of weird :D
08:26<V453000>I wonder if adding some motion blur would actually help
08:26<V453000>guess not
08:26<V453000>well maybe
08:27<argoneus>how fast is this going to be?
08:27<argoneus>these things will always look weird if going fast
08:27<argoneus>imagine a mill spinning at 2000 rpm
08:27<V453000>that is pretty retarded question if I dont even know if it is going to be argoneus :P
08:27<argoneus>what?
08:28<V453000>I already stated that it probably wont happen
08:28<argoneus>why not
08:28<V453000>which means I am reaching some technical limit
08:28<V453000>which means speed will need to adapt to whatever is most suitable to the limit, if at all feasible
08:28<argoneus>what I meant was
08:29<argoneus>if you want the animation to look any cool it cant really go faster than 20-40 km/h
08:29<V453000>because reasons
08:29<argoneus>because it would have to spin too fast
08:29<argoneus>and that'd look weird
08:31<V453000>because you said so
08:31<V453000>good :)
08:31<argoneus>well sorry if I upset you
08:32<V453000>frosch123: how about using current_speed to change motion blur stages a bit? XD
08:32<V453000>moar spritez
08:33<frosch123>yeah, make them glow red and spawn lighning sparks :p
08:33<frosch123>you can now spawn multiple visual effects and position them individually
08:34<frosch123>so you can also spawn the electric spark near the wheels
08:34<V453000>fuck now you talking
08:34<V453000>damn :D
08:34<V453000>that didnt yet occur to me
08:34<V453000>ok
08:34<V453000>this MUST happen
08:35<V453000>I will just let it re-render with motion blur and see wat up
08:35<V453000>could just change mb in postproduction but eh
08:35<V453000>I got a gtx 980 Ti, Blender rendering = easy
08:39<V453000>I wonder how many sprites will I need for a single engine :D the set might just end at 1
08:40<Mazur>I bet it's going to end up with 453000 sprites.
08:40<frosch123>well, widelands has about 1.5 GB of sprites (the whole game), nuts has about 3GB
08:41<V453000>:>
08:42<Wolf01>also don't forget people waving goodbye on the passenger cars' windows when the train start moving at stations
08:42<frosch123>goodbye or farewell? :p
08:43<V453000>neither
08:43<Mazur>Or: √453000
08:43<V453000>they wave fuck off :P
08:43<argoneus>how do you wave fuck off
08:43<Wolf01>"fuck off i'm going to disappear on the next station"
08:43<V453000>,,|,/
08:43<argoneus>that looks painful
08:44<Mazur>argoneus: just like regular, only your smile is real and from relief to see them going.
08:45<argoneus>wow
08:45<Wolf01>we should really keep a list of each person in the game, so we could track them and give them feelings and such, also destroying the entire game economy because we'll end up with only 100 people travelling while others are doing other things
08:46<argoneus>let's call it egodist
08:46<Mazur>99.99% of people calling in sick for the day.
08:47<Wolf01>train personnel strikes
08:48<Wolf01>let's do a fully new game, a mix between ottd, factorio, and banished and call it real transport tycoon
08:48<Wolf01>maybe based on the train fever engine
08:49<argoneus>not 3d pls
08:49<Wolf01>yes 3d
08:49<argoneus>NO 3D
08:49<Wolf01>yes
08:49<argoneus>3dpd
08:49<argoneus>I mean
08:49<argoneus>it can look 3d
08:49<argoneus>but not 3d pls
08:49<Wolf01>i want map rotation
08:49<argoneus>that's lewd
08:50<argoneus>you just want to see the train's butt don't you
08:50<Wolf01>yeah
08:52<Wolf01>also the view from the engine, like the rollercoaster tycoon 3 first person riding feature
08:53<argoneus>I mean
08:53<argoneus>you might as well become a train conductor
08:58<argoneus>I wish I could be motivated to spend a lot of time on one thing :(
08:59<argoneus>whenever I try to get into something I binge it for 60 hours and then never touch it again
08:59<V453000>frosch123: can I detect current_speed = 0 and make it "cool down" over a few frames if I had the wheel heat up
08:59<V453000>somehow?
08:59<frosch123>nope
08:59<V453000>right :)
09:00<V453000>well the only place trains stop immediately is signals
09:00<frosch123>you can only make it reflect speed immediately
09:00<V453000>yeah, thought so
09:00<frosch123>though you can distinguish accelerating and slowing down
09:00<V453000>:d
09:01<frosch123>so you could draw differently at 50km/h speeding up vs 50km/h slowing down
09:01<V453000>probably not much point having double amount of sprites just for slowing down
09:01<V453000>back in an hour or so
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>dear cat. i just fed you. you can't be hungry.
09:08<frosch123>ever saw a kid not wanting a dessert after lunch?
09:08<argoneus>he probably just wants your attention
09:08<Wolf01>or just vomited around and asking for lunch again
09:13<argoneus>gurgle gurgle
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09:19<drac_boy>hi
09:20<Mazur>Hell
09:20-!-Nothing4You [N4Y@nothing4you.w.tf-w.tf] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:20<Mazur>o.
09:21<drac_boy>mazur which hell? ;)
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09:21<Mazur>Hell O.
09:22<argoneus>hell o
09:22<drac_boy>heh well I actually had been to Hell, Grand Cayman .. kinda funny tho ... a place named hell :)
09:22<drac_boy>as I recall it came from the odd rock formations there
09:23<drac_boy>anyway how're you two?
09:24*argoneus looks around
09:24*argoneus points at himself
09:24<argoneus>?
09:26<argoneus>im wondering if I should get an x360 controller for pc
09:26<argoneus>my logitech controller is dying
09:27<frosch123>you should play ottd with a mouse
09:27<frosch123>and keyboard
09:28<argoneus>well not for ottd, duh
09:28<argoneus>I use a steering wheel for ottd
09:28<argoneus>to turn my trains better
09:29<drac_boy>heh
09:29<frosch123>maybe spread the myth that you can turn the map in ottd when using a steering wheel
09:30<argoneus>that would be rude
09:31<drac_boy>well tbh a steering wheel could work for -some- certain locomotives in msts tho? :) (yeah, clockwise for throttle and counterclockwise for brake .. or something like that .. I think thats how they functioned)
09:31<drac_boy>someone who actually knows of these locomotives should know better anyhow
09:36<drac_boy>but as for ottd/ttdx I would think a mouse/tablet with optional keyboard is probably the best method
09:37<drac_boy>(although to try drag tracks with a pen may be interesting)
09:37<argoneus>I actually want the controller to play dark souls
09:37<argoneus>:(
09:37<argoneus>guess I'll just get the x360 one
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09:44*drac_boy gives sim-a12 one of my breakfast muffin
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09:58<argoneus>oh by the way frosch123 Wolf01 friends
09:58<argoneus>do you use anything for optimizing your production?
09:58<argoneus>like any tools or spreadsheets
09:59<@Alberth>yes, issue trackers, compilers, makefiles
09:59<argoneus>;_;
09:59<frosch123>i made a spreadsheet to compute how much coal efficiency modules safe and productivy modules cost for which assembling plant
09:59<frosch123>and i computed how to use oil best
09:59<frosch123>that kind of stuff
09:59<argoneus>any idea if there are any calculators for assembler ratios?
09:59<argoneus>I started working on this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kaBCFjHNx7tclcxIo3XOdS9Vo0TzY-0sjgRwf0SADMQ/edit?usp=sharing but it takes time
09:59<argoneus>writing a script would take time too
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10:02<frosch123>argoneus: well, yes, i did exactly that spreadsheet wrt. how much raw cargos are used to produce a module assuming certain modules in the assembling machines
10:03<frosch123>result was that speed modules are worthless, except in beacons around oil wells
10:03<frosch123>beacons are useless except around oil wells
10:03<argoneus>hm
10:03<argoneus>that's a whole new level of theorycrafting I couldn't be arsed to do
10:03<frosch123>oil raffinery and chemistry plant should all use productivity modules
10:04<argoneus>actually, what do you mean
10:04<argoneus>how much raw cargos
10:04<argoneus>it uses the same amount no matter the modules, no?
10:04<argoneus>except maybe prod. module
10:04<frosch123>the assembling machines should use a mixture of efficiency and productivity modules
10:04<frosch123>with more efficiency on early cargos, and more productivity on later cargos
10:05<frosch123>argoneus: assuming yuo produce all power using coal or oil, and not using the solar power cheat, you can compute how much iron, copper and coal some product needs
10:05<frosch123>using efficiency modules reduces the usage of coal
10:05<frosch123>using productiviy modules exchanges copper and iron for more coal
10:06<argoneus>oh wow you went that far
10:06<argoneus>is there a ratio coal:kW ?
10:06<argoneus>assuming steam engines
10:06<frosch123>producing a module needs like 500 raw copper
10:06<frosch123>using productivity modueles on advanced circuits saves you like 5% of that copper, while only costing slightly more coal
10:07<frosch123>using producivity modules on something like copper wires requires a lot more coal
10:07<argoneus>i actually tried to avoid modules a lot, except efficiency
10:07<argoneus>only used efficiency in most things and speed 3 in furnaces
10:07<frosch123>argoneus: yes, there is a fixed ratio for coal->kw and solid fuel -> kw
10:08<frosch123>light oil is the best to use for solid fuel
10:08<frosch123>the advanced rafinerery processing is better than the basic ones, even when going for fuel instead of gas
10:08<argoneus>so you crack heavy to light and make solid fuel from that?
10:08<frosch123>argoneus: speed is really worthless
10:09<frosch123>it's better to build more assembling plants
10:09<argoneus>well
10:09<argoneus>with furnaces the belts limit you
10:09<frosch123>speed modules trade space for coal
10:09<argoneus>and if you didn't plan well enough, you can't split and make another line
10:09<frosch123>it's way better to build more funcaces than to waste coal
10:09<argoneus>and then speed modules are nice
10:11<frosch123>argoneus: heavy -> light -> solid fuel is better than heavy -> solid fuel, even considering the energy needed for the cacking
10:12<argoneus>just... how many calculations did you do?
10:12<argoneus>or do you have a script
10:12<frosch123>no, just a spreadsheet
10:12<argoneus>I couldn't figure out how to make my spreadsheet calculate these things
10:12<argoneus>;_;
10:13<frosch123>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/factoriooil.ods <- that's the oil usage computation
10:14<frosch123>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/factoriomodules.ods <- that's the modules production computation
10:14<frosch123>they are not commented, so, good luck figureing them out :p
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10:15<argoneus>hm
10:15*andythenorth ponders
10:15<argoneus>o/ andythenorth
10:16<argoneus>yeah frosch123
10:16<argoneus>these spreadsheets....
10:16<argoneus>seems cool :D
10:18<andythenorth>when BB picks a tertiary cargo
10:19<andythenorth>it’s fun
10:19<andythenorth>I have 8 chains to build to provide the input cargos for a ‘vehicles’ cargo goal
10:20<argoneus>BB?
10:20<andythenorth>Busy Bee
10:20<argoneus>oh
10:23<drac_boy>mm what os/cpu factorio need anyway?
10:23<frosch123>it needs a pc with 3d graphics acceleration
10:24<frosch123>the linux build works with the shared libraries that come with debian jessie
10:24<frosch123>it did not work with wheezy
10:26<argoneus>yeah
10:26<argoneus>it needs glibc 2.15
10:26<argoneus>but wheezy has 2.13
10:32<drac_boy>hmm so anything agp? seeing this topic for the second time now .. I may have to actually think about trying factorio perhaps .. we'll see tho :)
10:33<frosch123>drac_boy: there is a demo
10:33<frosch123>just try it
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>does agp still exist?
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11:15<@peter1138>i imagine there's still some people running kit with it, so yes, it exists.
11:16<frosch123>kit? the car?
11:17<drac_boy>have to go for lunch sorry
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11:20<@peter1138>kit. equipment.
11:22<argoneus>you can always buy the game and refund it if it doesn't work
11:22<argoneus>oh he's gone
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>the car is called kitt
11:26<argoneus>nothing personnel, kitt
11:27<Taede>personal, not personell
11:27<argoneus>pssh...
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12:25<Wolf01>bye
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15:54<Keshi>heya, good evening
15:54<@Alberth>o/
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16:36<argoneus>can someone explain me something
16:36<argoneus>there are mods which have specific licenses
16:36<argoneus>such as "you can't redistribute it, you have to link people to my website" and stuff like that
16:37<argoneus>and then such mods aren't on bananas
16:37<argoneus>and it's a pain to get them in general because their website might die, etc
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16:37<argoneus>can't you make it so that every mod that people make has to have X license?
16:37<argoneus>I mean, probably not, it's their mod, but yeah
16:38<andythenorth>no
16:38<andythenorth>how would that be enforced?
16:39<argoneus>yeah I realized after the fact that not every mod has to be on banans
16:39<argoneus>bananas**
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20:09<drac_boy>hi
20:20<argoneus>hi drac_boy friend
20:20<argoneus>drac_boy: I wanted to tell you before
20:20<argoneus>you can buy factorio
20:20<argoneus>and refund it if it doesn't run
20:21<drac_boy>ah ok :)
20:21<drac_boy>either way what you doing atm?
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20:22<argoneus>watching game of thrones
20:22<argoneus>you?
20:22<drac_boy>not much atm..just kinda wondering a bit about vehicles (the real ones sorry heh)
20:23<argoneus>heh
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20:29<drac_boy>I did kinda wonder about seeing Spectre .. we'll just have to see when then
20:37<drac_boy>kinda funny that I think its the first bond movie to be reusing a car from a much earlier time tho .. the austin martin yeah
20:37<drac_boy>admittly I think someone reviewing the trailer mentioned that it had a few features less than the original one
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20:53<drac_boy>anyway think going for now
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 13 00:00:16 2015