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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-12-13

---Logopened Sun Dec 13 00:00:16 2015
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03:34<@Alberth>o/, and o/
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04:01<andythenorth>can I make a railtype which forbids junctions and signals?
04:01*andythenorth looks
04:02<@Alberth>sounds very weird
04:03<andythenorth>one vehicle per track
04:03<andythenorth>use transfer stations (‘pumping stations’) for longer routes, or to split cargo
04:04<andythenorth>I use PIPE grf a lot, but thinking of making my own version
04:04<andythenorth>routing PIPE like normal trains is weird
04:05<@Alberth>I suspected already it's for your pipelines :)
04:05<andythenorth>I can’t see us adding a new type for this ever
04:06<andythenorth>especially because Factorio
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04:21<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the answer is no
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04:38<andythenorth>so I see
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06:25<Eddi|zuHause>cat in a box
06:27<frosch123>i like how some people write stuff in all caps, and how they struggle when they encounter a ß
06:28<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i came across such a line earlier, but i don't remember where
06:29<Eddi|zuHause>i found it funny because you could easily confuse "groß" with "grob"
06:29<frosch123>i get assigned a new ip every day, and my browser is configured to reveal as little as i mananged to configure it
06:30<frosch123>result is, the first time i visit youtube each time, it gives me the german mainstream bullshit
06:30<frosch123>which i never watch
06:30<frosch123>only after i enter the first thing into the searchbar, i get my regular targetted stuff
06:31<Eddi|zuHause>they introduced this new "trend" category, where you can get back to the regular german mainstream stuff :p
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>anyway... i would just write SS...
06:34<frosch123>i know 4 versions: ß (single lower case letter between all caps), SS (likely the normal thing to do), SZ (the artist way to do it), � (unicode uppercase ß, which no font knows what to really draw for)
06:35<@Alberth>ha, big cats like boxes too :)
06:36<frosch123>the big cats even like humans
06:37<Wolf01>the same way they like their lunch?
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i get a "missing glyph" glyph
06:37<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i expected no less :)
06:38<frosch123>it's just forwarding the problem to the font guys
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>i guess there is such a thing as "too nerdy" to implement :p
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>i once got told this story, that in the early days of computing (before computers could do ß), the west germans put "ss", and the east germans put "sz", so when the computers finally could do ß, the east germans could more easily roll it back...
06:41<frosch123>i heard the same story, but about type writers around 1890
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06:41<Eddi|zuHause>there was no east germany in 1890 :p
06:41<frosch123>anyway, if i had to make the decision, i would favour SZ
06:41<frosch123>it has better semantics
06:42<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: seismic activity?
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the old germany had more of a north-south-division
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>well, it still has that, we call it the "weißwurstäquator"
06:44<frosch123>the old old germany had more of a west-middle-east division
06:44<frosch123>i read that karl I is also considered the first french king
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>well, the french are kinda in denial of their german heritage
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>which is also why they over-romanticise the gauls
06:49<frosch123>i am always amazed by the french-english stuff
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>i always feel i know not enough about that stuff
06:50<frosch123>like england declared "indepenene" from france, and france teams up with scotland
06:50<frosch123>us declared independence from england, france helps them
06:50<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i thought you played eu4?
06:50<frosch123>so you should know about 100-year war
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>but so far i neither played england nor france :p
06:51<argoneus>good morning train friend amigos muchachos
06:51<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i also knew about the 100 year war before... but only very minimal...
06:51<argoneus>wait wait
06:51<argoneus>do I see eu4 discussion hre
06:51<frosch123>yes, because it is europen history without germany being involved :p
06:52<argoneus>100 year war in eu4 is very historical
06:52<argoneus>when england declares war on you as france
06:52<argoneus>you ally spain, portugal and austria
06:52<argoneus>and call them in
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>i also only know very minor details about the reconquista
06:52<argoneus>and that's how the french won the war
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like starting as a superpower like france or ottomans is like cheating
06:55<frosch123>i guess you are not allone on that :)
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>so far i played games as saxony, genoa, japan, iroquios, cherokee and the hansa
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and nowgorod
06:55<argoneus>playing merchant republics is not cheating
06:55<argoneus>getting 40 ducats a month after 10 years
06:55<argoneus>actually being able to sustain mercenaries
06:55<argoneus>poor hansa
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>well, they now split apart the hansa into individual cities
06:56<argoneus>i haven't played since cossacks
06:56<argoneus>genoa too
06:56<argoneus>genoa is like the easiest country to form italy with
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't attempt to form italy as genoa
06:57<argoneus>milan is the second easiest but you have to kill genoa asap
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>as genoa i conquered greece and southern spain, then went colonizing
06:57<argoneus>saxony is fairly hard granted
06:57<argoneus>japan is frustrating and boring
06:58<argoneus>ever since they made diploannexing take 500 years
06:58<argoneus>it's faster to just kill everyone as the shogun
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>i played japan before that...
06:58<argoneus>I haven't :(
06:58<frosch123>argoneus: i heard kongo is the most fun to play :p
06:59<argoneus>well, "fun"
06:59<argoneus>it's an isolated country that has potential to get westernized very early
06:59<argoneus>and it sits on a trade node iirc
06:59<argoneus>it's an interesting start to say the least
06:59<frosch123>afaik you have to fast-forward 200 years before you can do anything at all
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, you "sit" on the trade node if you manage to colonize before the europeans
07:00<argoneus>I never played them
07:00<argoneus>but isn't the biggest threat portugal?
07:00<argoneus>or spain or whoever likes that area that game
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>biggest threat, or biggest ally?
07:00<argoneus>I don't think colonists liked people of black skin
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>i found that the AI rather tries to colonize america first
07:01<argoneus>if there's an england player who actively colonizes the carribean (because AI never does that)
07:01<argoneus>then either portugal or spain go to south america instead
07:01<argoneus>and the other guy goes to africa
07:02<argoneus>from my observations at least
07:02<argoneus>I've seen portugal colonize most of african coast
07:02<argoneus>normally they just take ivory coast, south africa and hurray to india
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i only played countries which enter the colonization race rather late, so the caribbean was always already colonized by the time i arrived
07:03<argoneus>I never bothered colonizing when I wasn't early to the race
07:03<argoneus>caribbean is way too overpowered
07:03<argoneus>unless they changed it
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>like as hansa, i barely managed to get havanna, and put a trade center there, because it's fairly crucial in my trade network
07:03<argoneus>basically if you hold the caribbean, then most of north and south american trade goes through there
07:04<argoneus>and then you profit off other's colonies
07:04<argoneus>it's dumb
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>it's rather difficult to get all the world's trade to the north sea
07:04<argoneus>as hansa I just went full battlemerchant on everyone
07:05<argoneus>actually I go full kill-everything as every nation except the colonisators
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes, sort of, but it's easier when you make 300 in trade than 40 :p
07:05<argoneus>well, you see, that's the trick
07:05<argoneus>you kill england and netherlands
07:05<argoneus>meanwhile england colonizes everything
07:05<argoneus>and then you get all that sweet trade in the english channel
07:05<argoneus>without ever having to go to america
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>i took london from england, and vassalized netherlands when they had like 2 provinces, then fed them all others
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>then i never had admin points to get more of england
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>nor a diplomat to annex netherlands
07:06<argoneus>I feel like they increase coring and diploannexing costs every patch
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>which really does take 100 years
07:06<argoneus>it's like they want to turn this game into a geopolitical simulator
07:07<argoneus>it used to be a fun map painting simulator :(
07:07<argoneus>might as well play victoria
07:07<argoneus>also aggressive expansion
07:07<argoneus>they keep changing that too
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, i now can steer trade through 3 routes: {china,india}-samarkand-moscow, indonesia-africa-caribbean-st. lorenz gulf, and persia-aleppo-constantinople-vienna
07:09<argoneus>that's a lot of land
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>all of those with about 70% efficiency
07:09<argoneus>I dunno
07:09<argoneus>I prefer playing countries like brandenburg
07:09<argoneus>at first you pretend that you are just another irrelevant HRE country
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>where you form prussia and just clobber everyone?
07:09<argoneus>and then all the morale and discipline ideas kick in
07:09<argoneus>and then you roflstomp stacks twice your size
07:10<argoneus>with 3 star generals
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>i'm doing pretty good with hanseatic germany
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>hanse has a nice morale boost
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>and mercenaries
07:11<argoneus>does hansa have a -merc cost idea?
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>hm, no i think the morale boost is from plutocratic
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't played this last week... as i was trying to devise a way to port my hansa game from 1.12 to 1.14, which is non-trivial
07:12<argoneus>I wish I cared that much about my games
07:12<argoneus>I just shrug it off and start a new game
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>because when i just load the game, my trade income drops like 20%, and i'm 100 above my force limit
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>which moves my monthly surplus from +150 to -300
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>or so
07:13<argoneus>are you sure it's the save's fault?
07:14<argoneus>I mean
07:14<argoneus>if the game mechanics changed
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>also, liberty desire gets bumped up
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>and it sort of does matter whether it's 45% or 55%
07:15<argoneus>just make them change religion
07:15<argoneus>that will make them happy :^)
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>i did that earlier :p
07:15<argoneus>I actually tried an austria game once
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>was exeptionally fun when i "asked" vatican to change religion :p
07:15<argoneus>where I decided to kill the reformation before it spread
07:15<argoneus>that is, forceconvert everything asap
07:16<argoneus>it's impossible ._.
07:16<argoneus>even if you get all the centers, people still keep converting
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, i just force-converted everyone to protestantic that was small enough to do so...
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>especially one-province thingies in separate piece
07:18<argoneus>yeah, that's what I had to do as austria as well
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>and i started the league war before france could join a side
07:18<argoneus>when the reformation starts, austria isn't xenophobic yet, so you don't get a CB
07:19<argoneus>oh yeah
07:19<argoneus>I was actually wondering why the leagues weren't starting in that game as well
07:19<argoneus>I was like "I guess I beat the protestants so hard there's no leagues"
07:19<argoneus>and then I read on the wiki at least one elector needs to be protestant for it to start
07:20<argoneus>that sucked, because I couldn't enforce religion in the HRE :(
07:20*Wolf01 plays VS2015
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>so stomping is the wrong strategy?
07:20<argoneus>well, if I were to do it again
07:20<argoneus>first you want to make sure everyone in the HRE is relatively small, so you can force convert them
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>i only played a small test game as austria, to see how the personal union mechanic works
07:21<argoneus>then you pray to God that a center doesn't spawn in denmark or england or such
07:21<argoneus>and once you have all 3 centers in the empire, you curbstomp them asap
07:21<argoneus>and then you good
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>but to force union on bohemia you must be quick, because they put their own dynasty in later
07:21<argoneus>well, yes and no
07:21<@Alberth>/me plays GH reviewing
07:21<argoneus>Alberth: GH?
07:21<argoneus>guitar hero?
07:22<argoneus>all you can do is marry bohemia on game start
07:22<argoneus>and 80% of the time you don't get a PU anyway
07:22<argoneus>after the year 1500, if you have more provinces than hungary or bohemia
07:22<argoneus>you get a mission to force them into a PU
07:22<argoneus>no matter who they have on the throne
07:23<argoneus>austria just randomly gets a mission to get them as PU
07:23<argoneus>so in around 1510, if all goes well, you should have half of italy (to prevent shadow empire), and bohemia+hungary under PU
07:23<argoneus>and if you were lucky, then burgundian inheritance as well
07:23<argoneus>now that's a good start :P
07:24<argoneus>and if you are even more proactive
07:24<argoneus>you can exploit the missions and revoke privilegia in around 1490
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i'll do a real austria game one time
07:24<argoneus>and then you get a vassal swarm too
07:24<argoneus>and you can't really lose a war ever again
07:24<argoneus>and then there's the frustrating things
07:24<argoneus>if your king dies and you get a female heir
07:24<argoneus>you lose the crown
07:25<argoneus>or you have to pass a decision that allows female heirs, but that costs authority
07:25<argoneus>so blah
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07:25<Eddi|zuHause>i think once the reformation kicks in, you're going to have a hard time on authority anyway
07:25<argoneus>you want to pass like 1-3 decisions when it pops
07:26<argoneus>and then force league war asap
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>can you even force a league war as emperor?
07:26<argoneus>I don't see why you couldn't
07:26<argoneus>you're the leader of the catholic side
07:26<argoneus>just declare war on someone from the other side
07:27<argoneus>actually wait
07:27<argoneus>it has to be the protestants making the first move
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i misread it, but i think it said the protestant leader must declare war on the emperor with the league war cb
07:27<argoneus>but iirc
07:28<argoneus>if you declare war on someone in the HRE who is in the emperor's league
07:28<argoneus>then the emperor jumps in and it starts
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, i only fought in one league war, and there i was the protestant leader
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>i witnessed a league war in my cherokee game, but you can't take part in that if you're on another continent
07:29<argoneus>natives are hard
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>it was actually pretty fun. don't invest points in tech, invest all in development. and exploit the other tribes to settle for you
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>by the time you westernize, you have the largest development in the world
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>then you need to catch up in tech (i was in that phase when i last played)
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>i vassalized norway, which had lost all of its scandinavian provinces
07:31<argoneus>hm, that sounds like a good idea
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>that hopefully gives me a nice foot in the door for europe
07:32<argoneus>the development thing
07:32<argoneus>can you still make ships?
07:32<argoneus>I only played aztecs once, and it ended up with me spamming heavy ships
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>not before westernizing
07:32<argoneus>and killing all the colonists
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>that must have been a long time ago
07:32<argoneus>let me check
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>when i started playing (1.11), ships for natives were already disabled
07:33<argoneus>december 2014
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>i started later than that
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>i tried aztec, but it is now really crazy with the religion stuff they added
07:34<argoneus>oh wait
07:34<argoneus>this is the better screenshot
07:34<argoneus>18 heavy ships in 1522
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>as natives the most scary phase is during westernization. all your old forts will get destroyed, so rebels occupy instantly. and the europeans may want war
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>britain was hostile right away, but i gave them the two provinces they wanted, and turned their religion, then they became friendly
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>and then my chief died and i got a tudor on the throne, not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing :p
07:39<__ln__>14:36 < Eddi|zuHause> as natives the most scary phase is during westernization. all your old forts will get destroyed, so rebels occupy instantly. <--- true story from 1990?
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>sort of :p
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i think the height of that "westernization" was more around 1992-1995, when it became clear that the economy was dropping to 0, before it gets better
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>this process is still not over, btw
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>no, but the main problem about native westernization is that you lose all the perks of being a native at the start of it, and only gain the perks of being western at the end of it
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07:51<Eddi|zuHause>and westernization takes really long, because you spent so much on development
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>and expansion
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08:04<koesie10>Hi, I'm trying to get OpenTTD (tag 1.5.3) to compile in Visual Studio 2015. However, I get a lot of errors, mostly to do with table/strings.h. I also get an error with strgen, which I assume explains why table/strings.h doesn't exist:
08:05<drac_boy>hmm wish I could maybe help but I don't have windows sorry :->
08:05<frosch123>koesie10: make sure to open the "solution", not the "project"
08:05<frosch123>there are like 4 or so projects within the solution, which are all built when building the solution
08:06<koesie10>frosch123: I've opened openttd_vs100.sln and I use 'Build solution'
08:06<koesie10>And if I hadn't, there wouldn't be any errors for strgen_base.cpp
08:09<frosch123>no idea then, maybe try to compile a nightly instead of 1.5.3. they have a openttd_vs150.sln
08:10<frosch123>maybe that one works better in msvc2015
08:10<koesie10>I can compile trunk with MSVC2015, however I want to modify 1.5.3
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08:13<andythenorth>so belts?
08:13<andythenorth>radical depature from classic TTD
08:13<andythenorth>-> no vehicles
08:14<drac_boy>hi wolf01? :)
08:15<Wolf01>andy, yesterday evening i was show some photos of the new project of our group leader (lego technic), he is making a huge "something", maybe an excavator, at the moment the base consists of 4 bases of the new blue crane, it can also steer :o
08:15<@planetmaker>koesie10, if you want to modify OpenTTD, better get OpenTTD trunk instead of a(ny) release version
08:15<@planetmaker>modified versions are not compatible with release versions anyway
08:16<koesie10>planetmaker: How are they not compatible?
08:16<@planetmaker>thus you can get the development version with the newest features and bug fixes anyhow
08:16<@planetmaker>koesie10, OpenTTD multiplayer only works if all players have the exact same version. A patched version is different, thus incompatible
08:17<andythenorth>Wolf01: is it some big bucket wheel excavator or such?
08:17<koesie10>planetmaker: I have got the version to be the same between 1.5.3 and trunk, but the savegame was not compatible and I think that has to do with the fact that they are not the same versions
08:18<drac_boy>andy...or maybe it has interchangeable tools and hence can be an oversized jackhammer another time? :)
08:18<@planetmaker>for instance. But even when they should be savegame compatible, they're not multiplayer compatible if they're different versions
08:18<Wolf01>i think so, but it just may be a single bucket one
08:19<koesie10>planetmaker: But if I for example only modify the layout of the toolbar, they would be compatible if it was based on 1.5.3 right?
08:19<@planetmaker>and if you hack them to pretend to be compatible it will often fail regardless as OpenTTD multiplayer only works if all clients do exactly the same so that the game state doesn't evolve differently on different machines
08:19<@planetmaker>if it is *only* a GUI change, that often can work - if you know how to bypass version check
08:19<Wolf01>i don't know if it will use gantry cranes or just a mechanical arm
08:20<@planetmaker>anyway... cookie baking time :D
08:20<koesie10>planetmaker: I have worked out how to make the versions exactly the same, but only in trunk
08:20*andythenorth lego-ing time
08:20<andythenorth>also a bit of busy bee playing :P
08:20<koesie10>I have now got strgen to compile in 1.5.3 with the following from trunk:
08:24<@Alberth>koesie10: uint means unsigned int, which is probably bigger than byte
08:25<andythenorth>bloody ship sets
08:25*andythenorth is _still_ disatisfied with Squid
08:25<koesie10>Alberth: this is a clone from trunk, so it is already in the nightlies
08:27<@Alberth>hmm, strgen, probably newgrf specs limiting string length then
08:28<@Alberth>drac_boy: it's obligatory here to know all grfs made by andy :)
08:28<drac_boy>andy made more than station platforms and firs? :->
08:28<@Alberth>but it's a ship set, squid aka fish2
08:29<andythenorth>HEQS, Squid, FISH, Road Hog, FIRS, CHIPS, Iron Horse, also Termite
08:29<@Alberth>really the only newgrfs you'll ever need :)
08:29<andythenorth>not mine
08:29<@Alberth>hmm, perhaps add nuts too
08:30<drac_boy>I thought fish was danmack?
08:30<@Alberth>danmack makes beautiful .png
08:31<@Alberth>andy makes beautifil .grf from them
08:32<drac_boy>alberth no I really meant that .. my fish grf only says its danmack .. noone else
08:32<drac_boy>or there must be two different fish grfs
08:34<drac_boy>at least I think that cargo one from mb was under a different name thankfully .. don't have it anymore tho (and the website isn't there) so can't find what that name was
08:35<@Alberth>that's the fish grf I have
08:35<drac_boy>hm I guess theres two then
08:36<@Alberth>lots of fishes in the ocean! :)
08:36<drac_boy>say that reminds me ... I wonder where mb went to
08:37<drac_boy>don't recall (unless I missed some) any posts from him for a while
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08:39<drac_boy>geeze..does anyone remember the actual username for mb? he had all these nice germany-biased grfs he started a very long time ago
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08:55<andythenorth>there’s a fishing boat
08:55<andythenorth>from danmack
08:56<andythenorth>that’s not the same as FISH
08:56<andythenorth>mb is Michael Blunck
08:57<drac_boy>ohhhh blunck .. I always had thought it was something else (and wondered why I couldn't find it now)
08:58<drac_boy>hmm october 2014 .. guess he hasn't really posted anymore
08:59<@Alberth>he moved to simuscape, afaik
08:59<@Alberth>also he was always active at the german forum
09:01<drac_boy>german forum? oh why do I have some vague recall of that ... let me guess tiled green background with darker shade of green for the forum layout itself?
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know about simuscape, but he posted recently in the german forum, about how things probably speed up again in the winter
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: isn't that every tt-related website ever?
09:01*drac_boy goes to see if I can find it
09:04<drac_boy>heh guess some things don't change and I like that :)
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>i guess there's still enough time before the release date of 15-15-15
09:09<drac_boy>umm theres only 12 months or was I not supposed to say that? :)
09:10<andythenorth>I need new parts to make this in lego,.pdf?maxsidesize=406
09:10<andythenorth>the airbags just aren’t feasible
09:11<drac_boy>hmm dbsetxl 0.9 ... nice to see he's still slowly working on that
09:11*drac_boy still has dbset_s and dbsetxl0.8
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09:14<Wolf01>andy, use these:
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09:22<andythenorth>I am :)
09:22*andythenorth waits for flickr upload :P
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09:23<andythenorth>meanwhile, to pass the time…
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09:24<Wolf01>really nice
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09:24<andythenorth>he has lots of funny automatons on his channel
09:27<Wolf01>i watched the "simple machine series" from him
09:28<andythenorth>Wolf01: and
09:28<andythenorth>there are 3 of those parts
09:29<andythenorth>I really need a 3-stud part that can be anchored at both ends, and will deform 0.5 studs in the middle
09:29<andythenorth>or 3.5, and it compresses to 3 stud under load, and another 0.5 stud under shock-load :P
09:30<Wolf01>chain more of them
09:30<Wolf01>but it might become too big
09:30<andythenorth>it does :)
09:30<andythenorth>I have limited clearance, due to steering + torque rods
09:30*andythenorth tries a different approach
09:31<Wolf01>too bad the lego-me is asleep since about a month, i can't even think about how difficult is upscaling a moc i made :(
09:33<Wolf01>mmh, your problem might be difficult to solve
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09:37<Wolf01>put them horizontally and stretch them instead of compress them, it is not like the real one but it should do its job
09:39<andythenorth>got a solution with that
09:39<andythenorth>too big, but eh
09:49*drac_boy still likes one-rail lego trains? :)
09:58<andythenorth>kind of works
09:58<andythenorth>TMWFTLB though
10:00<Wolf01>you are too demanding, just enjoy you found a solution
10:01<drac_boy>wolf01 is that the same thing we tell miniature rivet counters? :P (after all why should anyone care exactly how many rivets there are on the smokebox door in HO scale?)
10:02<Wolf01>yes, it's not a critical failure if it's not perfect
10:03<drac_boy>trying to put four drivers on a steam locomotive and still call it a Mogul would be a certain critical failure tho?
10:03<drac_boy>sorry, maybe we're getting a bit carried away here :->
10:05<Wolf01>even if you put another axle to a steam locomotive i hardly notice, maybe if you forget to change the plate i'll find it
10:06<drac_boy>wolf01 heh well tbh a Mogul is technically basically a 2-6-0 .. if you change any of that its not in that class anymore
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10:07<Wolf01>yes i know, but i don't know the names, i just read them on the documentation
10:08<Wolf01>if the documentation doesn't match with what i'm seeing i'll start to have doubts
10:09<Wolf01>but if you show me a suspension system like andy's one, which works, and i don't know how the real one is, i don't really give a fuck, it works
10:10<andythenorth>I found a more compact solution, just hanging the chassis from the rubber parts
10:10<andythenorth>but it means limited ground clearance...
10:10<Wolf01>i give a fuck about factiorio different length of the rolling stock in vertical and horizontal directions
10:11<andythenorth>so now on bumps, the chassis hits the terrain, so the bounce of the suspension is useless :D
10:11<drac_boy>either way tbh for legos I've never bothered doign anything else than just put the axle right straight through the chassis itself ... after all thats what the instructions for eg 8868 does
10:11<andythenorth>also the axles hit the frame at maximum suspension travel
10:11<andythenorth>so eh
10:11*andythenorth will do without springs
10:13<drac_boy> was not as simple as the box photo showed .. lot of things crammed into small space :->
10:15<Wolf01>wait, what? i can't even think about that thing they did to fit the dishes support perfectly centered
10:15<andythenorth>they really did that
10:15<andythenorth>I don’t miss brick-building
10:15<andythenorth>it’s clever, it’s skilled, but it’s border-line hacks
10:19<drac_boy>wolf01 you mean the fluid/air tank? well its at least better than that crappy mold one-piece junk in the later sets tbh
10:19<drac_boy>not to mention you can change the length (which I did)
10:20<drac_boy>hmm yeah to our own I guess but I've always liked the classic build-up pieces instead of these silly mold one-piece stuff in later sets
10:21<Wolf01>i would have used this
10:24<drac_boy>oh and the one other thing is...why the hell are the grey bricks not matching? :->
10:24<Wolf01>you mean the colour?
10:25<Wolf01>the old one changed to yellow-ish too easy
10:25<drac_boy>wolf01 well funny mine had been in lot of sun and the only thing changed is that white is a bit dirty
10:26<drac_boy>gray is still the same
10:26<drac_boy>for some reason some of the blue have a bit of funny minor variation under bright light tho
10:28<drac_boy>either way I'll leave you with andy's industrial truck .. have fun :) me need sort some food :-s
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10:33<andythenorth>yeah I hate those one piece parts
10:33<andythenorth>like wheels
10:34<andythenorth>why a wheel part?
10:34<andythenorth>use bricks :P
10:35*andythenorth wonders if tyres would make air bags?
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12:54<frosch123>Alberth: any reason to not force "override newer texts" when uploading the base language?
12:56<@Alberth>for the base language it should be fine, I think
12:56<@Alberth>ie the only way to update the base language is to upload
12:57<@Alberth>so you cannot overwrite changes from other sources, such as translators adding new texts
12:58<frosch123>hmm, somehow eints disallows reverting to an older translation
12:58<frosch123>even when using the webinterface
12:58<frosch123>i press "save changes & get next string" and it just ignores it :p
12:59<@Alberth>hmm, for a translation, that should not happen
12:59<@Alberth>it does look for existing strings, maybe that breaks in some way
13:01<@Alberth>the old strings give you history (until they are removed), and I also thought to revert to old translations when the base language reverts
13:01<@Alberth>that could be a wrong thought
13:01<V453000>frosch123: I fixed the issue by throwing the graphics to a dustbin and making a better solution :P
13:27<frosch123>Alberth: there seems to be some issue when reverting translations when also the baselanguage reverted
13:28<frosch123>case_chgs = data.get_all_changes(lng.changes.get(sname),, bchg) <- seems to only query the changes for the current base language
13:29<frosch123>if you reenter the latest translation for that base language, the submission is discarded
13:30<frosch123>even if the latest translation is against another base language, and thus differs
13:34<frosch123>Alberth: <- maybe that's a better description
13:42<frosch123>i have no idea why it would only compare it to the translations of the same base
13:42<@Alberth>looks like a bug then
13:42<frosch123>line 537 even compares the bases again
13:42<frosch123>so, i would just replace the "bchg" in the get_all_changes with "None"
13:43<@Alberth>I have the code not in my head :)
13:43<@Alberth>I can have a look in a few days, but feel free to make a fix
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18:59<drac_boy>oh and wolf01 took me a while to remember where I saw it but hope you like this? that was one of the few things that initially inspired me .. talk about one-rail trains like I was saying :P
19:00<drac_boy>the little white thats visible between cab and the little tender is the actual drive motor if you had to ask btw :)
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19:07*drac_boy also went through many long posts on the german forum :-s (was just curious what kind of graphics they had over there heh)
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19:24<Wolf01>yeah that's nice
19:24<Wolf01>but, 'night
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 14 00:00:18 2015