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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-12-14

---Logopened Mon Dec 14 00:00:18 2015
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04:08<@planetmaker>moin
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05:53<argoneus>good morning train friends
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05:54<V453000>oh so thats why yeti development has died out https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12279040_10153753763869826_1845360019544322951_n.jpg?oh=a6ab49fa4edbf1b9b00e2311cbf76427&oe=571928B5
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06:39<juzza1>Could someone enable CF push builds for http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml-juzza1/ please?
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06:47<Wolf01>moin
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08:22<Eddi|zuHause>what's wrong with Belugas?
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08:53<andythenorth>hmm
08:53<andythenorth>time to redesign Squid
08:53<andythenorth>it’s been a while
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08:57<andythenorth>also why are all these industries on the top of mountains?
08:57<andythenorth>:P
08:58<V453000>sup the north
08:58<V453000>roadtypes?
08:59<andythenorth>meh
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09:04<andythenorth>V453000 render ships for me? max realisms?
09:04<V453000>shit on ship
09:05<V453000>atm I am solving the issue of vehicles getting longer in side and top/front views
09:05<V453000>the only outcome looks like two models
09:06<V453000>which is kind of bullshit because I want to rig some mechanisms and animate it
09:06<V453000>making those twice is quite a big wtf
09:06<V453000>perhaps I should just take a brush and draw it all and be done quicker XD
09:09<V453000>ON THE OTHER HAND ships do not really mind if they are shorter in the side view :P
09:09<V453000>I am starting to see the advantages andythenorth
09:10<andythenorth>advantages of...?
09:10<andythenorth>o_O
09:11<V453000>of shits
09:12<V453000>can make just one 3D model, no issues ever
09:12<V453000>while trains have to remain consistent in curves
09:12<juzza1>how would it look if _ is in right perspective, and the others are shortened
09:12<V453000>super chubby
09:13<V453000>the / \ already look like the vehicle is very short, taking a longer one and scaling it in that direction would probably make it even worse
09:13<V453000>I think the only 100% solution is two 3D models
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09:15<andythenorth>just chibi it in both dimensions
09:15<V453000>especially if your vehicle has big round shapes, the round shapes are extremely visible when stretched
09:15<V453000>side view will still be way less chibi :P
09:15<V453000>40% is shitload
09:15<andythenorth>yea….
09:15<juzza1>wheels and such arent that bad looking when squashed in / view, but yeah, theres the chubbiness, though i dont see how you can reduce that even with two models without altering the height between views
09:15<andythenorth>also, nobody knows what is ‘correct’
09:16<andythenorth>so I have stopped making ships
09:16<andythenorth>V453000 ^ easiest answer
09:16<andythenorth>no point doing any work if it’s just wrong
09:17<V453000>well with 3D models the correct can seem to be the 3D coordinates of the model, ignoring that the projection of bullshit sprites change the dimensions
09:17<andythenorth>also
09:17<V453000>yes that is kind of true juzza1
09:17<andythenorth>instead of 2 models, can you have 2 cameras?
09:17<V453000>yeah but that is the same as if you just stretch/scale the model
09:17<V453000>I did that in NUTS
09:18<V453000>it kind of works on the first sight but especially with some objects, the stretching is just visible
09:18<V453000>with DOOM I tried to work in 120% scaling, and used 100% for /\ and 140% for side
09:18<V453000>the concept sounds cute but the difference is still weird
09:19<andythenorth>making 2 models is boatloads of work
09:19<V453000>yes and no
09:19<andythenorth>for something most people will never notice
09:20<V453000>people do notice andy
09:20<andythenorth>for ships?
09:20<V453000>Pikkas approach is just utterly wrong, I hate that ... and stretched things do look weird
09:20<V453000>not for ships
09:20<V453000>ships do not care at all
09:20<V453000>there the problem is nonexistent
09:20<andythenorth>trains is different to ships
09:20<andythenorth>trains is headache
09:20<andythenorth>RVs also
09:20<V453000>yes am talking about trains
09:20<V453000>RVs slightly less
09:21<andythenorth>try lining up articulated RVs nicely :P
09:21<V453000>RVs are visible on diagonal only for a short period of time
09:21<V453000>and do not need to be super consistent
09:21<andythenorth>but depot and buy menu...
09:21<andythenorth>means hacks
09:21<V453000>well sure
09:21<andythenorth>haxor
09:21<V453000>but that is just 1 view, and you make 1 view fit to itself, easy
09:21*andythenorth has just invented a new art style
09:21<V453000>trains is combining the 2 views
09:21<V453000>which is THE bullshit
09:22<andythenorth>all vehicles are like a flat piece of card, no front view, only side
09:22<andythenorth>like characters in board games
09:22*andythenorth looks for image
09:23<V453000>well, if you would do it in an interesting way then it could be nice
09:23<V453000>but interesting probably means any kind of sensible detail which would again be prone to stretching
09:24<andythenorth>yeah, but easy to fix by scaling
09:24<andythenorth>maybe
09:24<andythenorth>dunno
09:24<andythenorth>also would look cool
09:24<V453000>yes but 99% people would probably not find it playable
09:24<andythenorth>ach just make the whole thing a 3D world
09:25<andythenorth>rotateable camera
09:25<andythenorth>problem solved
09:25<V453000>when I see how shit zbase is, I cant imagine how bad would 3D openttd end up
09:25<V453000>though, non-textured clean colourful style could work
09:26<andythenorth>also I am confused
09:27<andythenorth>I thought you quit due to RL?
09:27<andythenorth>o_O
09:27<andythenorth>not so?
09:27<V453000>not entirely
09:27<V453000>I am busy as fuck, yes
09:27<V453000>but doing things helps me get more experience and stuff
09:28<V453000>also I have utterly revolutionary gameplay idea for a train set
09:28<V453000>and I really want to see it happen
09:29<andythenorth>one powered wagon, refits everything
09:29<andythenorth>graphics for all things
09:29<andythenorth>5 generations
09:29<andythenorth>one railtype
09:30<V453000>actually about 8 wagons, each refits everything
09:30<V453000>graphics for all things
09:30<V453000>generations dont matter but probably some evolution of engines would be nice
09:30<V453000>multiple railtypes (like 3-5)
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09:31<V453000>the core idea is that you have one train engine, and put some wagons behind it. Depending which wagons you choose, and where you put them, would adapt the train performance
09:31<V453000>ie power wagons, speed wagons, tractive effort wagons, extra capacity wagons, loading speed wagons, ...
09:32<V453000>and if you put them closer to engine, they give more bonus, further away from engine lesser bonus
09:32<andythenorth>ha ha
09:32<andythenorth>innovation :)
09:32<V453000>-> you can assemble any train you want
09:32<V453000>-> you can autoreplace between wagon types to try what works for you
09:33<V453000>-> it is way the fuck less WTF than PURR/MEOW (trains adapting stats to railtype), and gives more train building options
09:33<V453000>though, there will be at least one train/wagon which will allow for track detection and adapting to it, simply because it allows for some great things with conditional orders
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09:41*andythenorth considers doing same for ships
09:41<andythenorth>but using subtype refits :P
09:42<V453000>if you cant combine them from many subsegments, it isnt nearly as good :P
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds terribly pointless
09:42<V453000>I dont think refit to subtypes should affect performance
09:43<V453000>colours etc, sure
09:45<@peter1138>Gearing?
09:45<@peter1138>Tee hee
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09:51<V453000>heh yeah
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11:30<argoneus>Belugas: I think your internet might be fucked
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13:14<andythenorth>o/ Alberth
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13:26<frosch123>o/ Alberth
13:27<@Alberth>o/
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13:34<FR^2>o/
13:39<argoneus>that's a lot of hands
13:40<frosch123>most people have more hands than brains
13:47<Mazur>\o
13:55<Wolf01>o/
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19:11<MDaxo>i have a question for you openttd'ers
19:11<MDaxo>What level do you usually build your rails at
19:11<MDaxo>3, 4?
19:11<MDaxo>as in elevation
19:11<Wolf01>1-15
19:12<MDaxo>Wolf01, thing is that rails have to be at a constant elevation since slopes slow down electric engines
19:12<MDaxo>so you have to pick on elevation
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19:12<Wolf01>nah, enable the right setting or use a grf which addresses the problem
19:13<Wolf01>or just put more engines on the same train
19:13<MDaxo>still i like to have my tracks level
19:14<ST2>as some already said: the good is enemy of the optimal ^^
19:16<ST2>and if you're playing SP game, never forget the CTRL+ALT+C cheat window :P
19:17<ST2>if on a MP server game, well... just comply with limitations and try the best out of it ;)
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19:42<Wolf01>'night
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19:46<_dp_>always funny to see people continuing to build stupid tunnels even with realistic acceleration :)
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20:05<ST2>well _dp_, I was still waiting that MDaxo had something to say more. Because SP and MP games can differ A LOT (as known ^^)
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20:07<ST2>"something more to say"* (correction - better late then never;)
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20:48<argoneus>good night train friends
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 15 00:00:19 2015