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#openttd IRC Logs for 2015-12-27

---Logopened Sun Dec 27 00:00:37 2015
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00:24<Flygon>With the 2CC Trainset
00:24<Flygon>Do Compartment or Regional Coaches reload faster?
00:24<Flygon>I'm running interurbans and electric trains aren't fast enough yet
00:24<Flygon>So I'm using Steam Locos with carriages
00:25<Flygon>I suspect it's Compartment tho
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05:33<alluke>flygon have you done mods for gta sa?
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06:40<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by translators :: r27478 /trunk/src/lang (57 files in 2 dirs) (2015-12-27 12:40:23 +0100 )
06:40<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Update from Eints:
06:40<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: german: 8 changes by translators, 2 changes by frosch
06:40<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: arabic (egypt): 36 changes by translators
06:40<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: afrikaans: 4 changes by translators
06:40<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
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07:06<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound right :p
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07:17<TrueBrain>I guess I should say some beautiful words ...
07:17<TrueBrain>6 year of service
07:18<TrueBrain>that should count for something, I guess
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07:23<Eddi|zuHause>sure, "enjoy your retirement"
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>but still, the "by translators" bit seems... unnecessary/a step backwards
07:25<frosch123>you want a commit per translator?
07:25<frosch123>sounds like a lot of cake
07:25<TrueBrain>translators in this case is the user ;)
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>no, i meant in the commit message
07:25<TrueBrain>what about it?
07:25<TrueBrain>WT3 would have given the same commit message
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>it used to say the username of the individual translators
07:25<TrueBrain>if it knew how to strip spaces :P
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>now it says "by translators"
07:26<TrueBrain>yeah; and the user doing these changes, is "translators"
07:26<TrueBrain>check the diff, you will understand ;)
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>i don't need to understand. it's just useless
07:26<TrueBrain>welcome to the xmas spirit, pfft
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07:27<Eddi|zuHause>you should either remove that bit, or somehow pipe the usernames back from eints
07:27<TrueBrain>the username
07:27<TrueBrain>that did the change
07:27<TrueBrain>what is there not to understand about that?
07:27<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: stop talking bollocks, it's already like what you mean
07:27<__ln__>i bet Eddi is not talking about *that* username
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>well, whatever...
07:27<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: only non-changes are attributed to non-translators
07:27<TrueBrain>not like the german line shows another username ;)
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07:41<TrueBrain>okay ... byebye WT3 :(
07:42<TrueBrain>I will so miss you
08:00<TrueBrain>right, that comment was followed with burning of some fire, and now a lot of weird wires are all of a sudden gone \o/ BE GONE WT3! :D
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08:02<frosch123>ah, you are one of those who kiss their victims before murdering them
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08:09<Wolf03>looks like one server was a bad server
08:09<frosch123>a green wolf
08:09<frosch123>never saw one of those
08:09<Wolf03>oh wait
08:09-!-Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01
08:09<Wolf01>is it better now?
08:09<TrueBrain>nope :(
08:09<TrueBrain>reconnect only resets colours :P
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08:10<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, "intelligent" clients track colours over renames
08:11<Wolf01>so, which colour do i usually have? barbie pink?
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08:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'd call it violet. but everyone can set a different colour
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123 is green and TrueBrain light blue
08:12<frosch123>and we all use the same client?
08:12<Wolf01>you are all white to me, while i'm grey :P
08:12<TrueBrain>I guess so ;)
08:12<TrueBrain>yes, Eddi, I use Konversation :P
08:12<TrueBrain>fucking Version requests :P
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>well, but everyone seems to use a different version :p
08:13<frosch123>Wolf01: on my first days on irc, i wondered why everyone bothered to set fancy colours, and noone uses the default black like i did
08:13<TrueBrain>I have version *Ancient* I am sure :D
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, about 4 years old :p
08:13<TrueBrain>I really never ever update this machine :P
08:13<Wolf01>i'm using mirc since... ever
08:14<TrueBrain>(not something I should say on public channels, do I? :P)
08:14<Wolf01>also, i found a way to play ottd on my lumia... remote desktop to the pc
08:14<TrueBrain>... that is not playing on ..
08:14<TrueBrain>that is cheating :D
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>that's called "thin client" :p
08:15<Wolf01>the only thing i can't understand is why the resolution is smaller on my phone
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably in the connection/server settings
08:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27479 /trunk/src/lang (10 files) (2015-12-27 14:16:37 +0100 )
08:16<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Remove genders from non-default cases.
08:17<Wolf01>it's nice because the phone has a greater resolution than my desktop monitor :p
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>either you have a 4K phone, or you have a really ancient monitor :p
08:18<Wolf01>fullhd 1920x1080 on desktop and 4k phone
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08:32<Flygon>Eddi|zuHause: My TV has a higher res than my computers
08:32<Flygon>2048*1536 >_>
08:33<Flygon>Or was it 2560*1920....
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>that seems completely backwards...
08:33<Flygon>It's a 22in CRT monitor, what do you expect? :D
08:33<Flygon>Cheapest HDTV I could get for $30
08:33<Flygon>And probably better than a $200 LCD xP
08:33<TrueBrain>CRT ... 3 letters you hoped to never read again
08:34<Flygon>I'd rather take a high quality CRT over a shit tier LCD xP
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08:38<@peter1138>meh, at least a cheap LCD will be sharp
08:38<@peter1138>colours might be lacking but then it's not x-raying you...
08:38<Flygon>Hence high quality CRT xP
08:39<Flygon>Good CRTs are sharp too :P
08:39<TrueBrain>I keep getting an E_DOESNT_MATCH when I read "high quality" and CRT
08:39<TrueBrain>parsing stops after it
08:39<TrueBrain>exit code is -131
08:40<Flygon>Problem is
08:40<Flygon>All my example pics are from the set-top box outputting crapass SDTV
08:40<Flygon> And the camera sucks at focusing anyway
08:40<@peter1138>well a good crt may need refocusing, as it's going to be a bit old by now
08:40<@peter1138>and they're never as sharp as an lcd
08:40<Flygon>Oh, the CRT's already been refocused
08:41<Flygon>Just phone cameras are BAAD :D
08:41<@peter1138>not at higher resolutions anyway
08:41<@peter1138>of course they are. who cares about focus when you have 11.2 billion megapixels!
08:41<Flygon>Crap, and the best HD pic I got
08:42<Flygon>Has me photographing an artist's NSFW stream
08:42<@peter1138>that's... not very good
08:42<@peter1138>the edges are not straight
08:42<@peter1138>so it has a power supply issue
08:42<Flygon>Oh, yeah
08:42<Flygon>That needs fixing
08:42<Flygon>Unless you're looking at the camera's shortcomings with the moire effect
08:43<Flygon>I gotta properly recalibrate it... I've just been too lazy because everything's 16:9 w/borders
08:43<@peter1138>i threw away a perfectly working 21" crt because... well, crt...
08:43<@peter1138>(its focus was suffering too)
08:43<Flygon>You coulda sold it for $30
08:43<Flygon>Oh, unrecoverable focus?
08:43<@peter1138>i couldn't give it away
08:43<@peter1138>nobody wants them
08:43<Flygon>Arcade guys REALLY like- really?
08:43<@peter1138>i tried :p
08:44<Flygon>When I tried to get my CRT
08:44<Flygon>I had to race for it
08:44<@peter1138>i think you're living about 15 years ago
08:44<Flygon>Others were racing for them, because they're great for Arcade machines
08:44<Flygon>Nah, I got it 2014
08:46<Flygon> Anyway, let's enjoy William Shatner in Pyjamas in glorious shithouse SD
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08:46<Flygon>If anything, the colour reporoduction on this TV is amazing :P
08:48<Flygon>Then again
08:48<Flygon>Because it's a 4:3 TV displaying a 16:9 image
08:49<Flygon> I end up with a 22in drawing tablet getting more screen area overall (HDTV channel) >_>
08:49<Flygon>Because nothing amused me more at that very moment
08:49<Flygon>Then connecting the set top box to the most expensive posession I own that isn't a car :|
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09:03<@peter1138>hmm, i do need to get a 'new' 22" 1680x1050 lcd screen
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09:09<drac_boy>anyone else still looking to use a snow shovel? heh (sorry, just being a bit silly)
09:12<@peter1138>it's pretty mild here
09:13<@peter1138>just a bit of drizzle
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09:13<drac_boy>mm .. whole ground blanked here
09:14<Wolf01>whole air is blank here
09:15<Wolf01>and i now have to run my car for 60km to join friends and watch star wars
09:17<Wolf01>at least is getting better than this morning, i can see my house walls around the window frame now
09:17<drac_boy>ah...soft flurry nonstop I'm guessing wolf01?
09:18<Wolf01>no, just fog, like milk
09:21<drac_boy>ic...yeah not lot of fun these
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09:23<drac_boy>btw you watching the new star wars soon?
09:23<Wolf01>yes, in 2 hours
09:24<drac_boy>have fun with that..I've seen the trailer and still want to eventually watch the old han solo again .. maybe in feburary or march :)
09:24<drac_boy>(yeah he's my favorite part of the classic star wars..)
09:24<drac_boy>dunno what to make of that funny ball-sized robot with dome head .. but heh guess I'll wait to see the full movie
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10:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm... weird... the mission sent me to bring a satellite in a specific orbit, but it doesn't seem to register it as achieved...
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12:20*andythenorth should really do something about eints interface :P
12:20<andythenorth>now that it’s used everywhere
12:21<frosch123>unexpected world conquest?
12:21<andythenorth>success is a burden :P
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27480 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2015-12-27 20:45:37 +0100 )
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
14:45<@DorpsGek>irish: 12 changes by tem
14:45<@DorpsGek>greek: 1 change by frosch
14:45<@DorpsGek>swedish: 1 change by Zuu
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16:03<Keridos>mmh, with ECS I get no suitable tiles for water supplies
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16:25<Eddi|zuHause>uhm... so... is there a way to attach a solar panel to a satellite that is already in orbit?
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16:36<Keridos>uah is there an alternative to nuts as endgame trainset?
16:36<Keridos>nuts is a bit too ridiculous for my taste, not in terms of power, but the design
16:39<andythenorth>what are you looking for in a trainset?
16:42<Keridos>currently we have 2cc but I am looking for more endgame trains
16:42<Keridos>these stop at about year 2000 for normal rails
16:42<Keridos>some faster engines for maglev cargo maybe and for later dates would be nice
16:43<alluke>try fts :P
16:43<alluke>it doesnt have maglevs tho
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16:44<Keridos>now I just need to look for a non ridiculous grf for maglevs
16:45<frosch123>i doubt there is any
16:46<frosch123>maglevs are ridiculous by themself
16:46<alluke>db set has transrapid
16:46<alluke>good for pax and mail
16:46<alluke>and japanese maglevs set too
16:46<frosch123>i am sure japanese trains and ukrs have some as well
16:49*andythenorth was going to do futuristic trains
16:49<andythenorth>but didn’t get to it
16:49<andythenorth>short on ideas
16:51<Keridos>can I set maglevs to not carry any passengers?
16:51<Keridos>and add cargo wagons?
16:51<Keridos>hm, what is the diff between the NML and normal version of 2cc train set?
16:52<frosch123>the nml one is a reimplementation of the other
16:52<frosch123>no idea whether it is feature-complete yet
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17:05<Keridos>does town_growth_rate 1 disable growth rate or make is slower?
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17:21<Payl>So I asked this question before but didn't get devs opinion, so let's try again... Why does OpenTTD devs claim that making it multi-threaded is impossible? Take YAPF for example: Every train can route on different processor since only write is saving where train will actually go, and moving trains can be done in same order, routing doesn't have to be... Is there mistake in my thinking?
17:26<frosch123>yes, signals
17:27<frosch123>also, yapf uses caching
17:27<frosch123>you would have to make that thread-local and stuff
17:27<frosch123>anyway, the key to multithreading is to forget about the gamelogic
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17:28<frosch123>multithreading is useful for graphics and stuff
17:28<frosch123>not for the gamelogic
17:29<Payl>frosch123: why signals would make multithreading a problem?
17:29<Payl>caching can be disabled or made thread-local, that isn't a big problem IMO...
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17:30<frosch123>because routing affects movement, movement affects signals, and signals affect routing
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17:31<frosch123>two trains approaching the same signal section at once, 1st train enters it, 2nd train has to use a different route
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17:31<Payl>well this can be solved with per-signal semaphore but i guess this would indeed change logic
17:32<frosch123>when you want to do multithreading at that level, you have to deal with throwing away some results which become invalid
17:32<Keridos>my firs game is unplayable
17:32<Keridos>passenger cargodist is on
17:32<frosch123>you can also precompute the expected train acceleration in parallel for all trains
17:33<frosch123>and throw that away when you later conclude that the trains have to slow down
17:33<Keridos>and apparently in my version of FIRS, engineering supplies are passengers in terms of cargodist
17:33<frosch123>but effectively you will end up rewriting everything
17:33<Keridos>so my engineering supplies have decided to not go anywhere except a few stations
17:33<frosch123>so, yes, everything is possible, but it means to rewrite everything
17:33<Payl>frosch123: well i don't think that would change everything, since there would just be extra logic to make every signal a critical section...
17:34<frosch123>you mean a signal deadlock would deadlock whole openttd, sounds awesome :p
17:34<Payl>Keridos: disable cargodist?
17:34<Keridos>cant do that in a running game :D
17:34<Payl>frosch123: is it possible for a train to "use" more than one singal at once?
17:35<frosch123>i woudn't even know how to count signals for pbs
17:35<frosch123>anyway, you cannot solve multithreading by just adding more semaphores
17:36<Payl>frosch123: obviously you can, by just adding critical section over whole game logic :P
17:37<frosch123>that would be less semaphores
17:37<frosch123>less semaphores -> big sections -> slow, more semaphores -> small sections -> deadlocks
17:38<Payl>well deadlocks would be impossible if you would only access one signal
17:38<frosch123>anyway, generally it helps to first look, where the cpu power is used
17:38<frosch123>because it is usually not the pathfinder :p
17:38<Payl>frosch123: i think its pathfinder in my case
17:38<frosch123>on a client with 32bpp graphics, it is usually the graphics
17:38<frosch123>for ships it is the pathfinder
17:39<frosch123>for trains it is usually the acceleration code
17:39<frosch123>for industries it is the tile animation
17:39<Payl>ah, acceleration code?
17:39<Payl>because my game with 700 trains lag but when i stop lags stop
17:39<frosch123>computing every tick whether the train goes faster or slower
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17:39<frosch123>in comparison the path finder only runs when entering a junction
17:40<Payl>well, why would that be slow? i guess its just few multiplications for every train
17:43<frosch123>it's somewhat more, and it is done very often
17:43<+michi_cc>Payl: Unless you build railways that consist of nothing but junction tiles, the train pathfinder is most likely not what makes it lag.
17:43<frosch123>it's done more often when the train moves faster and so on
17:44<frosch123>i believe it also checks everytime whether there is a dead end and so on
17:44<frosch123>no, idea, i only remember the result from profiling in the past, not the details :)
17:44<+michi_cc>Usually it's graphics, if you have a resonably old system, you could try changing setting/changing "supports8bpp = hardware" in your openttd.cfg.
17:45<Payl>i have 2013 i5.. is it old? ;)
17:45<Payl>i guess my problem is that my map is fairly big: 2048x2048 map with ~700 trains
17:45<+michi_cc>Try it, the worst thing to happen is that it runs slower than with the default setting.
17:45<Payl>and CPU usage is at 30% so one vCPU
17:46<Payl>michi_cc: k, will try, one sec...
17:47<Payl>its bit better now, 25% so i guess it somewhat helped
17:48<frosch123>that setting is less about the hardware, but more about the operating system :p
17:48<frosch123>and/or video drivers
17:49<Payl>Win8.1 with 4000HD
17:49<Payl>so i guess drivers should be fine.. :p
17:49<frosch123>then you are lucky
17:49<frosch123>i guess we disabled what you just enabled specifically due to win8
17:49<Payl>why would i be lucky with win8.1 and 4000HD? its nothing uncommon? ;)
17:49<Payl>ah, well... lol
17:50<Payl>i just wonder how people run huge networks of trains then... because well ~700 trains isn't that big i would guess?
17:50<frosch123>if you had xp, there would be no issue :p
17:50<Payl>if i had xp, i had viruses
17:50<Payl>and i would have other issues like not having drivers for my GPU... etc.. etc..
17:50<frosch123>download some coop games, and check their performance :)
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i totally landed next to the runway :p
17:51<Payl>frosch123: is there a specific site where i can dl something 'huge'?
17:52<frosch123> <- yes
17:52<frosch123> <- or more specific
17:53<frosch123>those games which say "public server" are those which still ran acceptable on some machines
17:53<frosch123>those games which say "pro zone" are those where people accepted no longer playing in realtime :p
17:53<frosch123>or something along those lines
17:54<Payl>no longer playing in realtime? lol... xD
17:55<Payl>well i tried dling one pro zone but missing newgrf and cant be found online
17:56<frosch123>you may need the grf pack
17:56<frosch123>the downlaod link should tell you which one
17:57<frosch123> <- that one
17:57<+glx>coop games are crazy :)
17:58<Payl>yeye i found
17:59<Payl>got public game 219, framerate seems smooth and no lags i see
17:59<+glx><frosch123> those games which say "pro zone" are those where people accepted no longer playing in realtime :p <-- or kicked on join because can't catch up with server ?
17:59<Payl>glx: u just get slow server and clients catch up no problem lol
18:00<frosch123>glx: the first entry was finished by V in singleplayer
18:00<frosch123>so, not coop kind of :p
18:07<Keridos>can I automatically download mods on the dedicated server automatically?
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18:08<frosch123>there is the "content" console command
18:08<frosch123>but not much "automatic"
18:08<Keridos>so i just copy the config for the newgrf and the files from my client?
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18:10<frosch123>Keridos: copy the grf and a savegame :)
18:11<Keridos>eh, cant it generate a new world itself?
18:11<drac_boy>bit unusual question maybe but mm any of you here on a forum for networking? (the ethernet/etc stuff yeah)
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18:12<Payl>drac_boy: what? are you asking if we know stuff about networking in general?
18:15<Payl>so, while we talk about lags: boats contribute to lag by their awful pathfinding.. does station size/length matter? I suppose bigger station=more lag, but is it terrible growth or just minimal thing?
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18:16<Keridos>holy crap I cannot find the newgrf files on my linux system
18:16<Keridos>arent they saved in my home directory?
18:16<drac_boy>pay1...well...technically its only one station piece to the cpu .. unless graphic animations were being used .. I dunno if thats the whole thing tbh
18:16<drac_boy>keridos check you don't have hidden folders enabled .. should be something like ~user/.openttd
18:17<Keridos>drac_boy: I have a folder in .config/openttd
18:17<drac_boy>I think the wiki mentioned it btw
18:17<Payl>i'm Payl, not pay1 :< :P
18:17<Keridos>but there are not all the GRFs i have ingame
18:17<drac_boy>keridos..again..did you check the user folder?
18:17<drac_boy>ah..well either the wiki or someone else in here then, sorry :)
18:18<Payl>Keridos: i think it might be important how u did install openttd
18:18<Keridos>gentoo linux, per portage
18:19<drac_boy>oh and btw nothing specific about networking now..just curious re there being so many different active forums
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18:21<frosch123>Payl: station area does not matter anymore, it gained some cache some years ago
18:21<Payl>frosch123: yeah thats what i saw but some sites did complain about that... thats a good news :P
18:21<frosch123>but in the past the catchment area of the station mattered, since it would query it all the time for stuff getting delivered to the station
18:21<frosch123>like passengers
18:22<Payl>frosch123: thats what i thought as well, but i seen some cache when i looked over openttd...
18:22*drac_boy idly wonders if all of this is from ever-larger maps?
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18:22<Payl>i think now it only gets refreshed per few days or so...
18:23<frosch123>the "per few days" is for the other direction :p stuff from station to houses/industries
18:24<frosch123>houses still produce on their own, and then need to decide what station to give their stuff to
18:24<Keridos>drac_boy: frosch123: it was in ~/.local/openttd
18:24<Keridos>the old folder in config apparently was used in older versions
18:25<Payl>frosch123: btw. is there way to tell them where to give stuff? Or for example dividing materials equally for many destinations connected to one station?
18:26<frosch123>i generally recommend the good-gameplay solution :p small catch area, and tram feeder services
18:26<drac_boy>I got to ask why two industries? :)
18:27<frosch123>anyway, night
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18:44<debdog>oy people! trying OTTD for the first time, quite impressive! have not figured out one tiny thing yet. mayhap someone is able to enlighten me. what do the icons in front of the vehicles on the vehicle list mean?
18:44<debdog>like shown here for buses and trains:
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18:53<+glx>colored dots ?
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18:53<debdog>yeah, the yellow dots in front of the buses and the blue lines and dots plus pluses in front of the trains
18:54<+glx>related to profit
18:56<debdog>aight, thanks a lot!
18:56<+glx>wow last time I played there were only green, yellow and red dots
18:56<debdog>I've been reading the wiki quite often but did not stumble on that one yet
19:01<drac_boy>anyway going afk for a bit
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21:09<Eddi|zuHause><glx> wow last time I played there were only green, yellow and red dots <-- that depends on whether you use original or opengfx
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22:00<Keridos>can I disable cargodist in a running world somehow?
22:00<Keridos>apparently our server decided to make the new world with cargodist everywhere
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22:03<Keridos>hm can I save a map seed somehow?
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22:08<Keridos>ok thisis weird
22:08<Keridos>when I set the cargo dist to off
22:08<Keridos>and then restart the server
22:08<Keridos>then restart the map it still is set to on
22:24<Eddi|zuHause>you need to disable it while the savegame is loaded
22:24<Eddi|zuHause>when you load a savegame, all the settings get restored
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22:43<Keridos>Eddi|zuHause: Thanks, already sorted it out differently though
22:44<Keridos>Downloaded server config and got the seed
22:44<Keridos>regenerated it locally and loaded it up again
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22:44<Keridos>now old map without cargodist, yay
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22:45<Eddi|zuHause>that is usually the safer variant anyway, but some settings affect how the map is generated, so you could get a totally different map with the same seed
22:48<Keridos>well I downloaded the config and change dnothing in the gui
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 28 00:00:39 2015