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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-01-05

---Logopened Tue Jan 05 00:00:51 2016
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02:01<__ln__>ah, -19 degrees and light wind.
02:03<@peter1138>a mild 7 degrees celcius and 7 mph winds here.
02:05<__ln__>sounds british
02:07<Supercheese> 7 degrees is below freezing ;)
02:08<Supercheese>since we for some reason never actually adopted °C
02:08<Supercheese>stupid °F
02:08<Supercheese>but we're stuck with it
02:09<__ln__>but the body temperature of a horse is a nice round figure for you
02:10<V453000>Supercheese: the F feel less wtf to me than the metric units like feet etc XD
02:17<Supercheese>all US customary units are weird as shit
02:17<Supercheese>we use the BTU... the *British* therman unit... when even the British don't use it any more!
02:17<Supercheese>thermal*
02:17<V453000>nice :D
02:18<Supercheese>and yeah feet and inches such
02:18<Supercheese>we don't have decimal measurements for length
02:18<Supercheese>just 1/2 inch, 3/8, 7/16
02:18<Supercheese>etc.
02:18<Supercheese>suck*
02:19<Supercheese>so someone says "9.2 feet" and everybody has no idea how much that is
02:19<Supercheese>somewhere between 9 + 1/8 in and 9 + 1/4 in
02:19<V453000>well at least US education has success with math :P
02:19<Supercheese>which is likely all your measuring device will have
02:19<V453000>XD
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02:25<__ln__>so we have -2°F here right now
02:27<Supercheese>damn, that's cold
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04:10<@planetmaker>moin
04:11<V453000>sup :)
04:11<@planetmaker>I can only offer like -5°C here. And more and more snow as it seems
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04:16<V453000>you should be stoned for daring to bring such low contrubution
04:16<V453000>u/i
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08:55<@Belugas>-20 celcius right now. yeah. snow? a bit yeah, but i am not going to dip a ruler on it and see how much we have received. too much for my liking, for sure!
08:56<frosch123>there is not even night frost here
08:56*frosch123 hides
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09:01<@Belugas>hehe
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09:26<Taede>must be between 7 and 10 here
09:26<Taede>+celsius
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11:08<Eddi|zuHause>it's nice and white here
11:11<Ether_Man>Hi. I've been looking at the gamescript Industry Constructor, which, as I understand it, can be set to focus industries around towns which would make it a bit more natural (can exclude primary ones ofc). But, starting a game with that GS active, still places all industries as normal, and then after a little while, the GS crashes, saying it cannot create the new world because number of industries is supposed to be none. But I cant find any way to completely
11:11<Ether_Man>turn off all industries. Even if I set it to funding only, there's still industries being generated (I have FIRS active as well if that's relevant)
11:17<frosch123>"funding only" should not spawn any industries on game start
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>did you check whether the GS actually can handle FIRS?
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11:19<Ether_Man>It says it is :/
11:21<Ether_Man>Hmm... Removed FIRS, it works... Added FIRS again, and now it works... O_o
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12:47<mykoserocin>has anyone encountered GRE keepalive packets looping in lo0 interface when stateful PF enabled (with single pass rule)?
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12:52<mykoserocin>all gre 192.168.0.1 <- 192.168.0.50 NO_TRAFFIC:SINGLE
12:52<mykoserocin> age 00:00:03, expires in 00:00:57, 1:0 pkts, 24:0 bytes, rule 0
12:52<mykoserocin>for some reason when this entry is active GRE packets are forwarded 'as is', instead of being decapsulated first
12:54<mykoserocin>if i add "set skip on gre0" to pf.conf everything works fine, but i want to understand why this happens
13:01<@Alberth>sure you're in the right channel?
13:02<mykoserocin>lol
13:02<mykoserocin>i've thought it's #openbsd
13:02<mykoserocin>sorry
13:02<@Alberth>:)
13:02<@Alberth>openbsd is also a nice game :p
13:02<mykoserocin>yes, such clean code!
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13:41<Ether_Man>For timetable purposes. Exactly how long does it take to fully unload and load a wagon? Or does that vary for cargo?
13:43<frosch123>the loading speed is newgrf defined
13:44<frosch123>the default for rail wagons is 5 units per 40 ticks
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13:46<Ether_Man>So a default passenger wagon would be 320 ticks. How long is that in days? And do all wagons load/unload at the same time (as long as platform is longer ofc) or is it one by one?
13:46<Ether_Man>Or well, a default beginner passenger wagon that is :)
13:47<frosch123>74 ticks per day
13:47<frosch123>there is a setting to make timetables operate with ticks instead of days
13:48<frosch123>as long as there is sufficient cargo, wagons will load in parallel
13:48<Ether_Man>Prefer smaller numbers so :)
13:49<Ether_Man>Hmm... 4.3 days. So that's 9 days to allow for fully load/unload :/
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14:27<@Alberth>o/
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14:35<andythenorth>o/
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14:44<@Terkhen>Hello
14:45<Zuu>Hello
14:46<__ln__>hello .es and .se
14:48<@Terkhen>:P
14:48<Zuu>I finally pushed my resizable elevators. And fixed a bug that made stairs and elevators cost zero in maintenance. :-) Now I 'only' need to do pathfinding, moving evelator cars and human agents. :-p
14:48<Zuu>Hello .fi
14:50<Zuu>elevator cars*
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15:10<+michi_cc>andythenorth: How's your C++? :) OSX would probably profit the most from http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/openttd.git/shortlog/refs/heads/opengl, but unfortunately virtualized OSX doesn't do 3D at all.
15:10<andythenorth>my C++ isn’t :(
15:11<andythenorth>sadly
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15:12*andythenorth compiles tip anyway
15:49<Ether_Man>Don't suppose anyone know of any nice station designs that's similar to http://i.imgur.com/ZNr0W.png but where the two "inputs" and "outputs" go straight through as well as to the station, and ofc, where trains need to exit the station in either direction as well :/ all my atempts to modify that design ends up in deadlocks >_<
15:50<Ether_Man>I've looked at the openttdcoop advanced building concept images but none of them seem to fit what I'm looking for :/
15:52<Sylf>How many trains per minute? How many platforms? How quickly do the trains load/unload? How quickly do the trains accelerate?
15:53<Sylf>Those are the questions coop builders would ask
15:53<Sylf>Also, must it be terminus?
15:54<Sylf>It needs to be perpendicular to the incoming lines?
15:54<Sylf>Is the station area flat or hilly?
15:55<Ether_Man>And those are questions relevant if I was looking for optimal designs which I'm not. If I was, I would make a SLH and use pretty much any of the station designs on that site
15:56<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Basic_two-way_station ?
15:58<Ether_Man>Well, more along the lines of https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:PBS_alternating.png... But same problem of being designed for 1in1out. I need 2in/2out/2bypass basically
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15:58<Ether_Man>or well... Rather, 4 bypass since it's 2 in each direction
16:01<@Alberth>I don't understand that
16:02<@Alberth>you're talking about terminus or roro?
16:02<Ether_Man>Terminus
16:03<frosch123>Sylf: does coop have a client which measures those things? :p
16:07<@Alberth>Ether_Man: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/station1.png ? will work, performance is quite terrible though
16:08<Ether_Man>Alberth, The concept would work for my purposes, but for 2 lines per direction. And as you say, performance is terrible :)
16:10<@Alberth>how much goes to the station?
16:11<@Alberth>you could use this as a side line, so most traffic never gets at this junction
16:12<@Alberth>don't try to find a single solution, use several useful pieces and put them together
16:15<Ether_Man>Well, most traffic does stop there. And I'm currently using two SLHs and two https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:PBS_alternating.png but that takes up a LOT of space, and balances really poorly as it tries to fill up the first before going to the second at all so leading to a lot of congestion at one SLH and none at all at the second one :/
16:15<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/station2.png
16:16<@Alberth>bridges from the station are all outgoing
16:16<andythenorth>just roro?
16:16*andythenorth gets confused by all this stations stuff
16:17<andythenorth>I don’t have any games in years where a basic roro doesn’t solve all capacity issues :P
16:18<@Alberth>terminus and roro mostly work evenly well, roro is simpler to set up though
16:21*andythenorth can’t be bothered faffing with bridges for terminus
16:22<andythenorth>and I use mixed train length, a 6 car train can get horribly stuck in a 5 car terminus :)
16:23<@Alberth>build all stations for your longest trains :)
16:24<andythenorth>ha
16:24<andythenorth>very sensible :)
16:24*andythenorth has a new game
16:24<andythenorth>“go on eBay, find things you want, but don’t buy them, thereby feeling you have saved money”
16:24<andythenorth>good game
16:25<Ether_Man>:/ Guess I can't explain what I'm looking for well enough... Oh well, guess I'll keep experimenting
16:25<andythenorth>never a bad plan ;)
16:28<@Alberth>deadlock is simple to fix, just use path signals at the ends, and no other signals
16:29<Ether_Man>Err... no... That does not solve deadlocks at all.
16:34<andythenorth>ebay is nuts :P
16:34*andythenorth is way behind the times
16:39<Sylf>If you have a working version with 1 each of in/out, you can build the second copy of the same thing next to it :>
16:40<Sylf>It's a valid coop solution
16:42<@Alberth>just what I was thinking too, build 1/2 a station for the first pair and 1/2 a station for the second pair of tracks
16:46<Ether_Man>Which is sort of what I have. But as I said before, it balances terribly and just massively overloads the first half and rarely uses the second half.
16:47<Sylf>Add a balancer in front of the station
16:50<@Alberth>swap one of the tracks?
16:51<@Alberth>I mean, if you have equally many trains from both sides visiting the station, and you have 2x 1/2, how can you have one side filled?
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16:52<Ether_Man>Alberth, swapping just reverses the problem. The problem is in the end, that when the trains leave the previous station and thus, selects the track, the station in question has a free platform on the first, and thus, all trains select that track, despiite it being only one platform that is likely to be full when they arrive, and despite the second one having 8 empty platforms.
16:53<Ether_Man>A balancer would help, I guess, but wouldnt that just move the problem closer to the station? Which I guess might help some but :/
16:55<Sylf>Coop doesn't build anything that's perfect either
16:55<Sylf>They just build stuff that should work reasonably well. Then when something isn't working well enough , we fix it
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17:22<@Terkhen>good night
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 06 00:00:52 2016