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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-01-08

---Logopened Fri Jan 08 00:00:55 2016
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05:12<Kanet2>Whee! Testing
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05:38<Eddi|zuHause>bwäh... can't launch a kerbal in the command seat :/
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06:26<Taede>launch whilst a kerbal is in command seat, or launch the kerbal that is in the command seat?
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>launch as in go to launchpad with a kerbal in the seat
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07:29<Eddi|zuHause>ha i found a new mode of transportation...
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>rolling around with my rocket on minimus via gyro thingies :p
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>not very efficient though, as you can't go very fast :p
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07:38<Eddi|zuHause>also, steering is a bitch :p
07:53<Wolf01> uh, this is bad
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08:22<V453000>fuck trains, use horses
08:22<Wolf01>even the fastest horse can't reach the speed of 88mph!
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08:36<V453000>slugs can, why could not a horse?
08:36<V453000>^ stronk argument
08:39<Wolf01>great scott!
08:41<Wolf01>today i need to murder someone... which one is better, borderlands or skyrim?
08:42<V453000>I didnt play skyrim but I loved the hell out of borderlands and borderlands 2
08:43<V453000>I personally prefer borderlands 2 a lot, it has a lot more fun and INSANE amount of talking that the characters do ... most of which are really fun
08:44<Wolf01>yes, the 2 is the best one so far, the pre-sequel is good to know what happened before but it's not so good as the 2 was
08:47<V453000>I honestly find the pre-sequel very horrible
08:47<V453000>1. in the beginning it is boring for a LONG time
08:47<V453000>2. characters are weird, I did not get the feel with any of them, in BL2 I only disliked zero somewhat
08:48<V453000>3. the humor is just going too repetitive, constant bullying of claptraps for not that much of a reason, ...
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08:48<V453000>there was probably something else but yeah
08:49<V453000>when I bought the pre-sequel, I finished the main story and since there was literally nothing else to do, I just went to play borderlands 2, and had a great time doing so
08:50<V453000>the only complaint I would have about both of them is how hard it is to actually obtain legendary gear
08:50<Wolf01>i'm still searching for those damned vault signs all around
08:50<V453000>even in the last playthrough of BL2, getting legendaries is wtf hard ... and then you discover that you just need to grind crater of badassitude tokens, buy a double penetrating hornet and not give a fuck
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>i think my plan for an assembly rover might be getting somewhere...
08:52<Wolf01>lol, honestly i'm right there grinding :D
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>if the terrain is not too uneven
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>now, for getting all the parts to the mun, however...
08:56<V453000>haha Wolf01
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09:27<argoneus>Wolf01: borderlands 2 is shit
09:27<argoneus>same with 1
09:27<argoneus>it's super repetitive
09:27<argoneus>it's fine if you like "fetch 10 shit"
09:27<argoneus>I don't
09:28<Wolf01>so are almost all other games
09:28<frosch123>what? transport coal from A to B! there is nothing repetitive about that
09:30<argoneus>skyrim at least has some open world content
09:30<argoneus>besides killing 10 things for this one funny pop reference parody guy
09:30<argoneus>it also has mods
09:31<frosch123>isn't "open world" and "content" a contradiction?
09:31<argoneus>Wolf01: most games are shit too
09:31<argoneus>look on steam how often a new game is released
09:31<argoneus>frosch123: what do you mean contradiction?
09:32<argoneus>in skyrim you can do things inbetween questing
09:32<argoneus>in borderlands hardly
09:32<frosch123>"open world" means "make your own content in our sandbox", doesn't it?
09:32<argoneus>"make your own content in our sandbox" is called "sandbox"
09:32<frosch123>and "open world" is not "sandbox"? :p
09:33<Wolf01>skyrim at the point i am it's pretty boring, i have just a bunch of repetitive missions like "kill that bear in the cave" or "there's an evil awakened in the crypt under my bedroom"
09:33<frosch123>true, better make a repesentative analysis of at least 90% of released games :)
09:33<argoneus>Wolf01: then you won't like borderlands
09:34<argoneus>the whole game is like that
09:34<Wolf01>i played all the 3 borderlands and enjoyed them
09:34<argoneus>have you finished them?
09:34<Wolf01>all of them
09:34<Wolf01>and almost all the side quests too
09:35<argoneus>I can't be bothered when I keep doing the same thing without giving it any thought
09:35<argoneus>borderlands felt like "drive here, kill this funny meme boss which is a reference to some funny thing"
09:35<Wolf01>and 3 times with some characters because i wanted to get them to the higher difficulty level
09:36<argoneus>then again I mostly play multiplayer games only these days
09:36<argoneus>at least every game is different
09:37<argoneus>Wolf01: have you played that.. whatitsface
09:37<argoneus>the steampunk stealth game
09:37<Wolf01>online games aren't repetitive, every time you find another 12 years old who could be your dad
09:37<argoneus>I don't play call of duty so I wouldn't know
09:37<Wolf01>no, i didn't play that
09:37<argoneus>or mobas
09:38<argoneus>dishonored is fun
09:40<Wolf01>also borderlands is, it's just a different thing, it's like those charlie hebdo's comics, i don't even find them fun, but i find fun the joan cornellà comics
09:40<argoneus>Wolf01: did you play BL alone or coop?
09:40<V453000>actually many of the missions in borderlands have a lot of plot twists or funny reveals, I dont see why would you complain about the missions there ... :D
09:41<V453000>coop borderlands is one of the best experiences in gaming I ever had
09:41<V453000>solo is still nice for me personally
09:41<argoneus>V453000: "plot twist"?
09:41<argoneus>I don't remember any from playing halfway through BL2
09:41<argoneus>actually, I don't even remember there being a story
09:41<V453000>"go do shit" and in the middle of the mission it turns on its head completely
09:41<argoneus>I know there was a story
09:41<V453000>there is a story and it is very good actually
09:41<argoneus>but I can't remember it for the life of me
09:41<V453000>side missions are also a huge source of fun
09:42<argoneus>I guess singleplayer RPGs just aren't my gener
09:42<Wolf01>so why do you like skyrim?
09:43<V453000>dragonz mate
09:43<Wolf01>which has the most deep story of "side with one faction or the other and kill a dragon"?
09:43<argoneus>as a note
09:43<argoneus>I never finished the skyrim story
09:43<argoneus>it didn't feel interesting
09:43<argoneus>I was mostly fooling around doing dark brotherhood stuff and shit
09:43<argoneus>or doing stealth playthroughs
09:44<argoneus>I didn't even play it for more than 20 hours keep in mind
09:44<argoneus>but it was ok
09:44<argoneus>as I said, singleplayer RPGs aren't my thing :P
09:45<argoneus>too tired of ancient evil awakens everywhere
09:45<V453000>judging huge games like skyrim or borderlands after you played 20 games is not very smart
09:45<argoneus>if I thought it had a lot more to offer I wouldn't have stopped
09:45<argoneus>I actually finished fallout 3 and liked it a lot
09:45<Wolf01>the only thing i didn't finish in skyrim was one of the side quests on the dragonborn dlc, because a bug made it stuck to a step which is unrecoverable also with the console (unless i do /resetquests)
09:45<argoneus>then I played fallout new vegas
09:45<argoneus>and quit after an hour
09:45<argoneus>"oh it's the same game but there's a different ancient evil"
09:45<V453000>thought XD so you basically predict how much the game has in it
09:46<argoneus>there's also the part of RPGs I don't like at all
09:46<argoneus>"sorry you haven't grinded enough to kill this guy"
09:46<argoneus>"your weapon's bullets don't do damage because of some arbitrary number to make the game feel worthwhile"
09:47<argoneus>I like games where progress = your skill level
09:47<argoneus>not progress = some number that increases periodically
09:47<argoneus>devil may cry was fun
09:48<V453000>in borderlands you can usually kill higher level enemies, it is just a bit harder, ergo your skill level could come in handy, I do not see a big problem there :)
09:48<argoneus>not really
09:48<V453000>because of course the levels are just arbitrary numbers, you still shoot shit
09:48<V453000>yes really
09:48<argoneus>all you can do is get the right weapon for their armor/health type
09:48<argoneus>and then run around and shoot them without them hitting you
09:49<Wolf01>isn't it in all games?
09:49<V453000>ok not worth arguing
09:49<V453000>just have it your way
09:49<Wolf01>i'm doing that in factorio too... running around avoiding trains
09:49<argoneus>I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me that borderlands has a deep combat system
09:49<argoneus>it's weapons + grenades + special abilities iirc
09:50<Wolf01>we are not trying to convince you that borderlands is the best game ever, we started like "we played all the three ones and the 2 is our favourite"
09:51<argoneus>it sounded like "you can't judge this huge game after 20 hours"
09:52<V453000>so you think that playing it for 20 hours is enough to know how the mechanics work all in all?
09:52<Wolf01>the same thing i was told when i played the diablo 3 demo, with locked difficulty to normal... i didn't even die once
09:52<V453000>because to me it sounds like you just tried your approach, failed, so you got bored and stopped playing
09:52<Wolf01>it was too easy for me
09:53<argoneus>V453000: what do you mean
09:53<V453000>RPG games in general, like borderlands, D3 or whatever usually do offer various ways of combat/builds/solutions, so playing for 20 hours and discovering them all is highly unlikely
09:53<argoneus>the weakness of every enemy in the game was blatantly obvious
09:53<argoneus>and if my character's build is weak against another I just need to compensate with something else
09:53<argoneus>it's not difficult at all
09:53<V453000>im done
09:53<V453000>sorry this is not worth my nerves
09:54<argoneus>I enjoyed divinity original sin a lot
09:54<V453000>everything is obvious to you except you do not have a clue
09:54<argoneus>in that game you actually have to think
09:54<Wolf01>then try to kill voracidous or other huge bosses for the booty, i can't even kill one of them on normal difficulty while being 10 levels more than it
09:54<argoneus>to win fights
09:54<argoneus>games like baldur's gate in general feel rewarding
09:54<argoneus>every fight is unique
09:54<V453000>voracidous is just wtf.
09:54<Wolf01>all of them are wtf
09:55<V453000>yeah well, I managed to kill terra quite solidly
09:55<V453000>pete, sometimes
09:55<V453000>but the rest ...
09:55<Wolf01>all the other plot bosses are pussies, i agree with that
09:55<V453000>everything with grog nozzle gunzerker though ... which is kind of hacky and lame
09:56<V453000>depends how you play, if you play all side missions then I agree that the game is quite easy, to the point where I would really like some difficulty settings to override that
09:56<V453000>but if you go straight in without any side missions then shit is pretty tough
09:57<V453000>again to the point where the enemies can start to be so high level that it simply starts being almost impossible .... where admittedly the arbitrary number of levels is kind of annoying, forcing you to do other missions than you want
09:57<V453000>the difficulty/xp system is one of the weaker parts of the game, definitely
09:57<argoneus>have you guys played dark souls
09:57<Wolf01>but there is nothing more funny of going to kick a boss in the ass with a shotgun which shots swords which explodes in more swords... with "the bee" shield too
09:58<argoneus>that was probably the most fun RPG I've played
09:58<V453000>yeah ... I pesonally hate the bee a lot, but eh :) swordsplosion is fun but the double penetrating hornet just wrecks shit
09:58<Wolf01>no, i usually play games to relax, not to punch holes in the monitors
09:58<argoneus>why would you be angry
09:58<argoneus>every death in dark souls is literally only your fault
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09:58<argoneus>you can beat the game on level 1
09:58<argoneus>RPG done right))
09:59<Wolf01>i already fail too much in rl, i expect some satisfaction in games
09:59<Wolf01>if i want to fail i just talk to my dad
09:59<V453000>yeah, absence of levels / less importance = good game. It is not our problem you do not like it :) but it does not make it objectively bad/good
09:59<argoneus>it's not less importance
09:59<argoneus>it just means you will die in one hit
09:59<argoneus>and do jack shit for damage
09:59<V453000>-> difference is?
10:00<argoneus>does borderlands have no hitscan?
10:00<argoneus>can you avoid every single attack if you want to?
10:00<Wolf01>if i want to die in one hit and do a shitload of damage i'll go to play quake 3 with instagib enabled and open maps with no covers
10:00<frosch123>sounds easy, if you only need to "want" it :p
10:00<V453000>not in the way you want, but that is not entirely relevant
10:00<V453000>as frosch says
10:01<argoneus>in dark souls you are supposed to level normally and even grind to have an easier time with some of the bosses
10:01<argoneus>but a decent player can solo the game on level 1 with a stick
10:01<argoneus>that makes it a good rpg imo
10:01<Wolf01>it works on skyrim/fallout too
10:01<argoneus>I wish skyrim combat wasn't shit
10:02<argoneus>some mods make it bearable
10:02<argoneus>but the vanilla combat is soo bad :(
10:02<argoneus>melee that is
10:02<Wolf01>in borderlands a bit less, because of the health regen
10:02<Wolf01>eh, i also wanted the mount&blade combat in skyrim
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10:05<V453000>m&b was a fucking massacre XD
10:05<V453000>I didnt remain entertained by it for long, but it was quite interesting
10:05<argoneus>I played m&b for hundreds of hours
10:05<argoneus>V453000 why can't you be more like me
10:06<V453000>fuck you thats why? XD
10:06<argoneus>m&b is also the kind of game I like
10:06<argoneus>it's a "RPG" in the sense you have levels
10:06<argoneus>but they don't mean much if you are good at the game
10:06<Wolf01>i'm trying to play the viking conquest campaign, but i'm struggling to advance
10:06<argoneus>Wolf01: what diff settings do you play on?
10:06<Wolf01>easy, i bet
10:07<Wolf01>i'm not so good at it, that's my problem
10:08<Wolf01>i can't get the right time of attacking and blocking
10:08<Wolf01>and when i have more than 1 enemy attacking me, i'm dead
10:08<argoneus>in m&b you can't really fight 1vX where X>1
10:09<argoneus>they would have to sync their attacks perfectly so you can block at the same time
10:09<argoneus>and then attack
10:09<argoneus>usually you can only block and hope someone helps you :(
10:10<Wolf01>or get a horse and hope it don't die while you are poking them with a pike from above
10:10<argoneus>do you run any mods?
10:10<argoneus>most mods have spear bracing built in
10:11<argoneus>charging someone with a horse has never been so scary
10:11<argoneus>it's like couched lance but stationary
10:12<V453000>idk I often went against like 100 enemies v 1, cause my squads were generally ultra bad ... riding around them on a horse and killing them one by one with a mace felt ok XD just lengthy
10:13<Wolf01>that's what i usually do
10:13<Wolf01>but i don't have enough money for a horse right now
10:13<V453000>deep shit then
10:13<argoneus>don't you start with one?
10:13<argoneus>in vanilla
10:13<argoneus>oh wait you're doing the viking thing
10:13<Wolf01>also vikings seem to not like horses
10:13<argoneus>I didn't buy any of the dlcs because what's the point
10:14<V453000>yeah not like 90% of modern games have actual content spread to 666 DLCs
10:15<V453000>... including borderlands :>
10:15<argoneus>have you even played warband?
10:15<argoneus>there's so many total conversion mods any paid DLC loses its point
10:15<Wolf01>the closest thing to a horse i have is the dog... because they used the skeleton of a horse for the movements and it's funny to see it moving, but also uncomfortable seeing it bending the legs in the wrong way
10:16<argoneus>there's a mod that makes the game into lord of the rings pretty much
10:16<argoneus>why would I pay 15 euro for vikings
10:16<V453000>perhaps there are new mechanics etc? My guess, I did not play it, nor warband
10:16<Wolf01>it's historically accurate
10:16<Wolf01>warband has multiplayer if you want
10:17<argoneus>mods bring new mechanics too
10:17<Wolf01>but the base game is the same as the first one
10:17<argoneus>there's a mod that makes battles look like total war
10:17<argoneus>you click your units and move them to places
10:17<argoneus>and it's free :P
10:17<argoneus>python is one hell of a drug
10:18<Wolf01>it's just the army management, you can use it from the viking conquest dlc too
10:18<argoneus>I know you mean the backspace thing
10:18<argoneus>but this literally split your army into squads
10:19<argoneus>and you had the clickable bars from total war
10:19<argoneus>and you could pre-position them before a battle
10:19<argoneus>and put them in formations
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10:23<Wolf01>too bad i only have 70 men (and they cost really much, while being almost all young warriors and burglars)
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10:27<Wolf01>and i need 2 more ships too :(
10:27<Wolf01>(no money for them... if i can't even afford a horse)
10:29<M-E>A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!
10:30<Wolf01>i don't have a kingdom too :(
10:31<Wolf01>after boarding my ship (it wasn't even mine) vikings left me on a beach with my ass up and a stick in it... luckily some fishermen found me
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10:50<@Alberth>hi hi
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27490 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2016-01-08 19:45:37 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>chinese (simplified): 1 change by siu238X
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14:01<@Alberth>hi hi
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17:18<m1cr0man>Does anyone use the finescale, standard guage and 3rd rail track GRF?
17:19<m1cr0man>I want to know why the electric tracks are so much more expensive than usual
17:19<Supercheese>that's not Pikka's finescale track grf, is it?
17:20<m1cr0man>sure is
17:20<m1cr0man>is there an alternative?
17:20<m1cr0man>Im using UKRS2 see
17:20<Supercheese>no that's an excellent grf
17:20<Supercheese>what's the problem exactly?
17:20<m1cr0man>Its 7 grand to build 1 tile of track
17:21<m1cr0man>You build like 100 units of track and all of a sudden you wasted your money not building an airfield
17:21<m1cr0man>Does the running costs parameter in the game settings effect grfs?
17:21<Supercheese>have you changed any bases costs via newgrf?
17:21<m1cr0man>i dont even know how
17:23<m1cr0man>is it normal for me to be missing the maglev and monorail tracks too?
17:23<Supercheese>Yes, when using UKRS there are no monorails or maglevs
17:24<m1cr0man>Ok good, not something I broke :P
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17:24<Supercheese>well, are all your tracks expensive? or just one type?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>m1cr0man: if you mix multiple sets that modify the same thing, the last one may override settings of the previous one
17:25<m1cr0man>oh im not sure actually supercheese, ill check now
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>m1cr0man: try changing the order, and see what happens
17:25<m1cr0man>eddi, ok ill move it to the bottom yeah?
17:26<m1cr0man>that may have fixed it Eddi|zuHause
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17:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably not "fixed", just broken in a less obvious way :p
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17:27<m1cr0man>I saved my old load order
17:27<m1cr0man>loaded up the world
17:27<m1cr0man>1 track now costs 4,830 instead of ~600 like it does when its at the bottom
17:28<Supercheese>it seems one of the other grfs may be influencing base costs
17:28<m1cr0man>yep. checking which one now
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>they are probably both setting base costs
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>(otherwise changing order would not change anything)
17:29<Sylf>Japan set 2 had pretty expensive track, I think
17:29<m1cr0man>interesting - its the vactrain set
17:30<m1cr0man>no, wait
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17:34<m1cr0man>Selected mod is causing the problem: I seem to have 2 versions of the vactrain mod, with the same version, but the GRF ID is different by 1 value (last digit 2->1), could this be a sort of hack or attempt to put a game breaker on bananas?
17:36<m1cr0man>nope! sorry, its the other one causing it
17:36<m1cr0man>this is so confusing
17:39<m1cr0man> is a clone of the perevious one, grf IDs 444A5902 (overpriced) and 444A5901 (normal)
17:41<m1cr0man>In other news, is there an AI that supports these rail types?
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>depends on what kind of "support" you are after. some AIs might use it, but i don't think there is one specifically designed for this.
18:06<m1cr0man>thats grand
18:06<m1cr0man>nocab seemed to be sticking to buses but it may have been setup wrong
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18:15<Eddi|zuHause>there are some AIs that only specialize on one vehicle type
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>typically road vehicles are easier to set up
18:15<Supercheese>they do require the least capital investment
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>you don't need complicated signal logic, and you can fit them in tighter spaces
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>finding space for the tracks is one of the hardest parts of AIs
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 09 00:00:56 2016