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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-01-12

---Logopened Tue Jan 12 00:00:01 2016
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06:37<Wolf01> :D
06:38<@peter1138>me o'clock
06:39<Wolf01>not here :P
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>is that a "before, after"?
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>also, is this photoshop, graffiti or an official advertisment livery?
06:43<Wolf01>might be, but the "after" is a minion :)
06:43<Wolf01>graffiti for sure
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, i did recognize it :p
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>but i did definitely see people photoshopping random liveries onto engines
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07:42<[39ster]>i cant join the game
07:43<V453000>which server
07:45<[39ster]>now it working
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09:14<argoneus>yeah vanilla server fucks up for me too
09:20<V453000>wtf? XD
09:22<Wolf01>V453000, is it possible to plant trees on factorio?
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09:24<V453000>Wolf01: probably not in vanilla but treefarm can
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09:34<V453000>3495 sprites in BRIX already :d
09:34<V453000>adding farms soon, that should bump it up as well :>
09:36<@planetmaker>sounds like good news :)
09:44<V453000>well I do not have many of the big-spritesheet things left :P everything has few sprites generally, which makes for more work :D
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10:28<argoneus>you guys are c++ wizards, right
10:28<argoneus>I need some help understanding a C++ codebase
10:30<argoneus>if you look at this repo:
10:31<argoneus>the bwapi/include folder, these headers are the high level interface you are supposed to use, right. and then there's all the other folders, headers and cpp files, and these are just implementation things that you shouldn't care about?
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>what do you want to hear other than a "probably?"
10:34<argoneus>well, I'm wondering how one is supposed to make a wrapper for a library
10:34<argoneus>you just wrap the public interface and ignore the implementation, right
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>what else would you interface with other than the public interface?
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11:02<supermop>was playing ottd for first time in months this morning, and thinking, I wish cities built more spread out so i could build a metro
11:03<supermop>go to the forum, and there it is!
11:04<supermop>pretty much just what i wanted
11:04<supermop>except no binary
11:05<supermop>but nice that someone out there is thinking the same way as me
11:05<@Alberth>it looks like it spreads out a lot, from the screen shots
11:05<@Alberth>I think "houses like trees" is to blame for that behaviour :)
11:05<supermop>i am ok with that - with having a town wider that one or two times the length of a train
11:06<@Alberth>if you like servicing towns, I can see the benefit
11:06<@Alberth>however, I don't do that, usually :p
11:11<supermop>trying to design a system of modular flower pots - i wonder if there is some way i can take inspiration from ottd town growth
11:15<_dp_>hm, MakeNewGame is called before MakeNewgameSettingsLive, yet it uses _settings_game instead of _settings_newgame
11:15<_dp_>smells fishy
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>spread out cities might work in combination with few cities on a large map
11:17<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: exactly
11:18<supermop>i always saw that as the biggest advantage to bigger maps, rather than thousands of dense compact towns
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>it might also work to have town growth "global", as in the same number of houses are built on a map, indepenent of how many cities there are
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12:36<argoneus>are there any wrappers for Squirrel? or would it even be possible
12:36<argoneus>to write AIs in something more.. familiar
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12:37<argoneus>actually why was Squirrel even chosen ._.
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>if you know ANYTHING about programming languages, it's easier to learn the new one instead of writing a wrapper to the old one
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>as for why: personal preferences and ease of availability, probably.
12:41<argoneus>it also has near zero support
12:41<argoneus>it doesn't have libraries/packages
12:41<argoneus>the syntax isn't the problem, it looks like every other imperative language
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>why would you need those?
12:41<argoneus>so I don't have to reinvent the wheel
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>anything complex likely wouldn't be supported
12:42<argoneus>I just don't get why anyone would prefer this to lua or python
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>remember you have only a very limited number of opcodes for execution
12:43<argoneus>so something like python would be overkill since the game wouldn't let you execute many things?
12:43<argoneus>because they'd take too long or something
12:43<argoneus>and wouldn't fall in specifications
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: a few builtin functions had to be disabled, because they took too long to execute (and circumvented the opcode check)
12:46<argoneus>by the way, when you mention "limited opcodes", what kind of opcodes do you mean?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: command execution steps
12:47<argoneus>ingame operations?
12:47<argoneus>or some low level stuff
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: the script is run in a vm-ish thingie, and this can do a number of steps in the program, then is paused
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: lower level stuff
12:48<argoneus>ohh, I see
12:48<argoneus>so this is to make sure you can predict how much the AI will slow down the game
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes, somewhat
12:48<argoneus>is this just a switch that you can turn off or is it hardcoded?
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: there should be a setting for that
12:49<argoneus>well, there are already quite sophisticated AIs that do just fine with the limitations
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know if it supports "off", but you can change the number
12:49<argoneus>so I guess it doesn't really matter
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>argoneus: in any case, doing an ingame operation (command) will also halt execution for this tick
12:50<argoneus>though you can't do any super complex AIs with self-learning and stuff
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could attach the AI to an admin port and interface an external data base, or some construct like that
12:51<argoneus>oh, squirrel has access to network?
12:52<argoneus>attach the AI to an admin port..
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>no. but the admin port has access to squirrel
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>at least to game scripts, not sure if AI
12:52<argoneus>so I'd basically inject the game with an AI
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>but thechnically, the game script could run all the AI companies
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>and there is a communication protocol using in-game signs
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12:59<Eddi|zuHause><argoneus> well, there are already quite sophisticated AIs that do just fine with the limitations <-- well, "just fine" may be overstating stuff a bit. some AIs take years to calculate initial situations before even making their first move.
12:59<argoneus>I thought they gave the player an advantage
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27494 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt unfinished/frisian.txt) (2016-01-12 19:45:36 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>frisian: 61 changes by gjannema
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans: 1 change by telanus
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14:17<Eddi|zuHause>where the hell is the download link on github again?
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14:19<Eddi|zuHause>ah, found it. there's only one for the complete repo, not any of its subfolders
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14:21<@Alberth>git doesn't support partial checkout
14:26<@Rubidium>Alberth:;a=snapshot;h=5cf34eb1a07cff1d99c255eb1d4cd5884d40fc2d;sf=tgz <- I think this is the kind of download link Eddi|zuHause would like to see (but for github)
14:30<@Alberth>ah, right
14:31<@Alberth>is a bit against the idea of GH :)
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: sometimes the needs of users clash with the ideas of developers.
14:58*andythenorth is bored of playing ‘eBay’ now
14:58<@Rubidium>just like downloading 6 GB just to tell you that your computers hardware is not supported for Windows 10 upgrade?
14:58<andythenorth>I need a new game
14:58<andythenorth>this one is expensive :(
14:58<argoneus>play r6 siege
14:58<andythenorth>it’s the in-game purchases that are draining my money :P
14:58<@Rubidium>andythenorth: "find a penny"; can be played for free on the street
14:58<andythenorth>ho, nice idea
14:59<andythenorth>I could play the ‘selling’ edition of eBay
14:59<@Rubidium>also nice with the kids... "if you find enough pennies to buy an ice cream, we'll buy an ice cream"
14:59<argoneus>I read that as... not pennies
14:59<andythenorth>‘if you find enough pennies we’ll buy a train’ :P
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15:00<argoneus>Rubidium: pls don't download win 10
15:00<frosch123>Rubidium: people do that, but with returnable bottles
15:01<andythenorth>openttd is much much cheaper than most other hobbies I’ve found
15:01<@Rubidium>argoneus: how to prevent downloading Windows 10?
15:01<argoneus>Rubidium: get the student edition of win7
15:02<@Rubidium>argoneus: Academic license doesn't help with that
15:02<argoneus>I mean the
15:02<argoneus>"student" edition
15:04<@Rubidium>all I cant find w.r.t. student editions is that they are cheap professional editions
15:04<@Rubidium>even then, I'm not going to pay for that in any case
15:06<@Rubidium>luckily it still thinks the virtualbox adapter isn't supported in Windows 10
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: if american local news have not enough content, they send someone out emptying a bucket of pennies on the street, then film how everyone goes past them, not picking them up. to "document" how worthless pennies are
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21:38<supermop>hows t going>/.
21:52<Mazur>Constantly hearing Bowie music in my head, so that's ok
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 13 00:00:02 2016