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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-01-18

---Logopened Mon Jan 18 00:00:09 2016
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01:44<myztic_>2 trains crashed into each other
01:44<myztic_>how to get rid of the remains?
01:44<andythenorth>clears over time
01:45<myztic_>ah k
01:45<myztic_>ty :)
01:45<myztic_>(signals are hard for newbies :D)
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02:58<andythenorth>new cargo: whale bone?
03:42<V453000>actually drawing whale bones could be fun :D
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04:22<andythenorth>lo V453000
04:23*andythenorth wonders if 'minerals' is a dumb cargo
04:23<dihedral>hej hej
04:24<dihedral>andythenorth: make a redbull factory which requires "wings" :-P
04:24<andythenorth>ha ha
04:24<andythenorth>there are so many under-used cargo ideas :)
04:24<dihedral>then you have a chickenfarm ....
04:24<dihedral>hello pm
04:24<andythenorth>V453000 Silly Industries grf? o_O
04:25<andythenorth>I wouldn't play it, ever, but would be fun to make
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04:27<dihedral>fasst food would also be interesting
04:27<dihedral>factories with different requirements produce fast food which has to be taken to towns
04:31*andythenorth wonders if Gold and Diamonds in same economy is stupid
04:31*andythenorth learns by doing
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04:32<andythenorth>eh, out of cargos anyway :P
04:33<V453000>andythenorth: minerals and gas ftw
04:34<V453000>new shit
04:34<Clockworker>go away V
04:34<Clockworker>it's enough to tolerate you in the coop channel
04:35<V453000>I can kick you from the coop channel so you do not have to wittness me twice? :D
04:35<Clockworker>but then you'd miss my hub goodness
04:36<V453000>I did not say I will :P
04:36<andythenorth>V453000: going to add gas in one economy :P
04:36<Clockworker>I am, I know you'd miss it, the rising star of openttdcoop
04:36<andythenorth>'minerals' in this case is all the rare stuff, like coltan, cobalt, zirconium etc
04:36<Clockworker>(laugh track)
04:37*andythenorth bbl
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05:26<andythenorth>V453000: new shit works
05:26<andythenorth>nice and bright
05:45<V453000>:) you mean the ball things?
05:45<V453000>ah that
05:46<V453000>yeah, changes to shit will be done as well but I like the progress a lot
05:46<V453000>happy, bright theme, and I will try to add some happy colours to the grass and stuff
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06:13<argoneus>good morning train friends
06:15<V453000>fuck is up
06:16<argoneus>does anyone here have any experience with AI?
06:16<argoneus>specifically RTS AI
06:18<V453000>yeah in my experience OpenTTD's AI builds nice railways
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06:54<Flygon>I wonder if an AI script can be made
06:54<Flygon>To found towns, form the roads
06:54<Flygon>And separate AIs controlling separate companies to build the railways
06:54<Flygon>And effectively create a recreation of Australia's railway system from inception (early 1850s)
06:54<andythenorth>pikka's Civic AI builds roads
06:54<Flygon>Along with the towns founded
06:55<Flygon>Can the AI script found towns?
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>found towns is generally rather a GameScript task
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>seing as it is not limited by money and stuff
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>but yes, most of the things needed for that should be there.
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06:57<V453000>XD good guy AI automatically funding industries and towns near player's actions, effectively blocking them XD
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>except for people switching companies at stations, that needs infrastructure sharing, and that has... issues
07:18<andythenorth>I dunno, in this West African economy, exporting Iron Ore seems boring somehow
07:19<andythenorth>and switching to bauxite doesn't help
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07:25<andythenorth>could do cobalt, but it tends to come from copper mines, already got copper
07:27<V453000>changing the name does not really change anything
07:27<V453000>you could call it monkey shit
07:27<andythenorth>it makes no difference to gameplay
07:27<V453000>as I once said :P draw a scheme, make system
07:28<V453000>earn infinite $$$ was the final step I believe
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08:11<V453000>hi there
08:12<leolrrj>could you suggest me how to start? I did the beginning guide in game but I'm still bit confused...
08:13<leolrrj>I never played transport tycoon before too
08:13<argoneus>leolrrj: what are you confused about my friend?
08:13<argoneus>also welcome
08:13<leolrrj>I wanna understand the game modes...
08:13<argoneus>you mean the biomes?
08:14<leolrrj>is there a competitive mode? against other companies?
08:14<argoneus>the game by default is in "competitive mode"
08:14<leolrrj>or it's like a sandbox game?
08:14<argoneus>you can either join multiplayer servers or add AI companies to your game
08:14<argoneus>or you can choose to play solo and make the best company
08:15<argoneus>there are also MP servers with custom gamescripts
08:15<argoneus>which is like "get the most population in 3 hours"
08:15<argoneus>that's competitive as well
08:15<leolrrj>hmm cool
08:15<argoneus>just explore the mp servers if you want to try these out
08:15<argoneus>if you want to sandbox or play against AI that's fine too
08:15<leolrrj>let me try it out
08:16<leolrrj>but I'm feel to weak yet lol
08:16<leolrrj>I cannot make profits
08:16<argoneus>money is rarely a problem in this game
08:16<leolrrj>I'm starting by creating bus and bus stations on cities
08:16<argoneus>buses are bad
08:16<leolrrj>and I think it's not profitable
08:16<argoneus>wel, bad
08:16<argoneus>buses are a long-term investment
08:16<argoneus>they grow cities rapidly
08:17<argoneus>if you want to make money you use trains
08:17<V453000>trains are the answer leolrrj
08:17<argoneus>or airports
08:17<V453000>just connect things which are as far away from each other as possible, and you get a lot of profit
08:17<V453000>of course as long as possible is within some bounds of feasibility for you :)
08:17<leolrrj>I will connect to a server and try that strategy then
08:17<V453000>but the more distant you transport, the better
08:17<leolrrj>should I start by coals
08:17<argoneus>not necessarily
08:17<V453000>yes coal is great
08:18<argoneus>if your train is slow then you might end up making less
08:18<V453000>because coal drops its value over time very little
08:18<Wolf01>everything is profitable, you must only understand how to do it well, I often start with ships and have a profitable route in 1-2 years
08:18<argoneus>leolrrj: early game you want to use either oil or coal
08:18<argoneus>the problem with oil is it only drops
08:18<V453000>argoneus: that train would have to be super slow or carry super volatile cargo
08:18<argoneus>coal is the top probably
08:18<argoneus>in vanilla
08:18<argoneus>I wish oil was viable
08:18<argoneus>the production of oil drops so fast
08:19<argoneus>V453000: i suppose you're right
08:19<argoneus>generally longer is better i guess
08:19<argoneus>the distance is measured in air-distance, right
08:19<argoneus>not how long the train has travelled
08:20<argoneus>that'd make no sense
08:20<leolrrj>should I place my HQ before I start to make trains?
08:21<argoneus>not needed
08:21<V453000>manhattan distance I believe
08:21<V453000>between station signs of source and destination
08:22<argoneus>oh, right
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08:22<argoneus>leolrrj: your HQ doesn't really do anything
08:22<argoneus>afaik it only accepts mail/goods/passengers later on
08:22<argoneus>if it gives a bonus it's very minor
08:23<V453000>no bonus anywhere
08:23<V453000>only accepts stuff
08:23<V453000>only interesting part about HQ is that it costs like 1% of the money you have or something
08:23<V453000>so if you build it later on, you pay more for it :)
08:27<andythenorth>I don't think that's the abbreviation
08:28<argoneus>V453000: do you factorio full time these days?
08:28<argoneus>or do you do multiple contracts or something
08:28<V453000>factorio only
08:28<argoneus>I recall you saying you were doing 3d graphics in some random non-prague city
08:29<argoneus>so you quit that?
08:29<argoneus>did you move or do you work remotely?
08:29<V453000>I travel two times a week to Prague, for 2 days per trip
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08:29<V453000>but I am moving to Prague in about 2 months from now
08:29<argoneus>so you have an apartment here or something?
08:29<argoneus>also nice
08:30<argoneus>prague the city of dreams))
08:30<V453000>yes my father has a flat here, so I can stay over night
08:30<argoneus>oh nice
08:30<argoneus>seems pretty comfy
08:30*andythenorth did Prague, tourism style
08:30<V453000>but we have a baby coming any day now with my wife, so we are looking forward to move to Prague for a more proper setup :)
08:30<argoneus>wait you have a waifu?
08:30<argoneus>I thought you were solo
08:31<argoneus>living the life
08:31<andythenorth>V453000 I thought you were sticking to animals :o
08:31<V453000>andythenorth: tourism style = beer n bitches?
08:31<argoneus>andythenorth: oh no
08:31<argoneus>YETI gone wild
08:31<andythenorth>V453000 is the most responsible person in this channel these days
08:31<argoneus>thanks for that image
08:31<V453000>yeah speaking of animals my pet monster snail died like 1 week before christmas
08:31<argoneus>pet monster snail?
08:32<V453000>roasted itself on the heating mat ...
08:32<argoneus>did you eat it
08:32<V453000>I had a giant african snail in terrarium
08:32<V453000>NO :D
08:32<argoneus>I've heard of people getting all sorts of pets
08:32<argoneus>even rats or ferrets or snakes
08:32<argoneus>never heard of anyone getting a snail
08:32<V453000>actually if you think about it a snail is extremely good as a pet
08:33<argoneus>you can't train it to fetch
08:33<argoneus>also don't they spread that slimy goo stuff?
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>you can't train a cat to fetch either.
08:33<V453000>it is quiet, does not stink, you just feed it once a day and give it water, it is cheap
08:33<V453000>you can pat it, put it on your hand, shower it, ...
08:33<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause cats also aren't pets
08:33<argoneus>you are their pet
08:34<V453000>cats are great, if one day I have a house I will buy a cat ... only issue is that wife is a parrot/other birds person, and cat does not seem very compatible
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>in sovcat russia?
08:34<V453000>sovcat russia XD
08:34<argoneus>V453000: do a compromise and get a bat
08:34<argoneus>it's like a flying cat
08:35<debdog>rather a flying mouse
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>bats are more like flying mice
08:35<argoneus>don't ruin it for me:(
08:35<argoneus>I can't think of anything else that looks like a cat but flies
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>that's what they are called in a lot of languages
08:35<V453000>no thanks, bats do not sound too nice
08:36<andythenorth>Need Moar Cargos
08:36<argoneus>V453000: what's wrong with parrots
08:36<V453000>nothing, cats kind of try to eat them though
08:36<argoneus>no i mean
08:36<argoneus>don't get a cat
08:36<argoneus>get a doge
08:36<V453000>I hate dogs beyond anything
08:36<argoneus>doges are friends with whoever you make them be friends
08:37<argoneus>OH i know
08:37<argoneus>get a bunny
08:37<argoneus>or was it rabbit
08:37<argoneus>whichever is the domestic one
08:37<V453000>no doges are fucking retards who stink, require permanent attention and enslave you completely
08:37<V453000>and you have to go OUTSIDE with them
08:37<V453000>WTF is that
08:37<argoneus>oh shit dude
08:37<argoneus>dogs are nice if you have a garden I guess
08:38<argoneus>in a flat it probably sucks
08:38<V453000>no dogs are not nice period
08:38<Wolf01><argoneus> I can't think of anything else that looks like a cat but flies <- owl?
08:38<argoneus>OH Wolf01 you a genius
08:38<argoneus>V453000: get an owl
08:38<argoneus>they look cool as fuck
08:38<V453000>owls are fucking amazing, yes we might get one some day
08:39<V453000>but probably a big parrot first
08:39<V453000>kids sound like a good pet too
08:39<Wolf01>here you need a special licence to have birds of prey of any kind :(
08:39<argoneus>V453000: when is your babby due?
08:40<argoneus>I mean your wife's
08:40<V453000>argoneus: last friday :D
08:40<argoneus>you said it's coming any day
08:40<argoneus>oh, delay?
08:40<argoneus>is it a boy or a girl
08:41<argoneus>no exciting openttd adventures then
08:41<V453000>how would you know :)
08:41<argoneus>do you see any girls around here? :D
08:41<V453000>andythenorth: what gender are your puny human pets?
08:41<V453000>im done
08:42<argoneus>in which V453000 realizes they don't care about his junctions
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09:12<leolrrj>train is the answer!!!
09:12<leolrrj>I'm very well using trains
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10:20<argoneus>leolrrj: it's called transport tycoon deluxe
10:20<argoneus>but it's more train train deluxe
10:21<leolrrj>argoneus: why my server does not accepts airports?
10:21<V453000>train train deluxe XD
10:21*andythenorth makes Road Vehicle Deluxe
10:21<argoneus>leolrrj: some servers disable airports
10:21<argoneus>because they think it's cheating
10:21*V453000 makes Bullshit Landscape Deluxe
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10:23<andythenorth>V453000: keep it bright
10:23<andythenorth>iz nice
10:24<andythenorth>also, bank all your sleep ever
10:24<andythenorth>owing to impending child
10:24<V453000>sleep is fucked already
10:24<V453000>bank 0
10:24<argoneus>take a loan
10:24<argoneus>at least your bank isn't negative
10:25<V453000>today it probably is
10:25<andythenorth>also it is possible to code / draw with a baby in one of these
10:25<argoneus>me at midnight: I should go to bed soon
10:25<andythenorth>but not to take things out of the oven
10:25<V453000>but bought coffee and some caffeine+taurin+stevia chewing gum
10:25<argoneus>me at 0:05: what's this article/video/game
10:25<argoneus>me at 5: fuck
10:25<andythenorth>also BT headphones
10:26<V453000>we got a old-school piece of cloth for carrying babiez
10:26<V453000>am thinking the same thing, will I be able to work with it on :D
10:26<argoneus>V453000: you mean the thing where you suffocate them on your tits?
10:26<V453000>one way to find out
10:26<V453000>yes argoneus
10:26<argoneus>it can be dangerous if you are careless
10:26<argoneus>which you aren't so it's fine
10:27<V453000>except there are many various ways how to tie it, and the babies seem to be rather alive mostly
10:27<argoneus>I know this because I've never had a baby only read internet discussions
10:27<V453000>me too, lets argue
10:27*andythenorth will stay out
10:28<argoneus>V453000 how old were you btw?
10:28<argoneus>I thought you were like 22
10:28<argoneus>that's an early age to have babies
10:28<V453000>fuck it we thought
10:29<argoneus>fuck it indeed
10:29<V453000>babies are swag #yolo
10:29<V453000>nah I am 25
10:29<argoneus>I tried to remember if I was 20 or 21
10:29<argoneus>I always thought people were retarded when they don't know their age
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10:30<argoneus>oh well
10:30<V453000>well, there you go
10:30<@Alberth>hi hi
10:30<argoneus>hi Alberth
10:30<argoneus>Alberth do you think software engineering is pointless and why yes?
10:31<@Alberth>hmm, you're asking me whether my job is pointless?
10:31<V453000>the fuck is it anyway
10:31<argoneus>Alberth: I mean the theoretical software engineering
10:31<@Alberth>you're not expecting an unbiased answer I hope :p
10:31<argoneus>with all the diagrams and processes
10:32<argoneus>I have to learn it for an exam and I can't say I've ever seen anyone mention any of those buzzwords or use them
10:32<andythenorth>you have to learn it
10:32<argoneus>and when I worked the most software engineery things we did were scrums and code reviews
10:32<andythenorth>so you can defend yourself against consultants
10:32<argoneus>which is common sense
10:32<andythenorth>common sense is not commonly distributed
10:32<V453000>good one
10:33<argoneus>andythenorth: so software engineering has nothing to do with programming and more how to get customers?
10:33<andythenorth>you also have to learn software engineering to defend yourself against people who have done the course and use it as a weapon
10:33<andythenorth>"of course, the proper way to do xyz is …."
10:33<andythenorth>fuck off
10:34<argoneus>I have to learn a bunch of things like
10:34<@Alberth>argoneus: I think you sbhould at least know what people mean when they mention buzzwords like scrum
10:34<argoneus>Alberth: what do you do as a job?
10:34<dihedral>argoneus: if you have to learn it, you should know why :-P
10:34<argoneus>I didn't mean to insult you or anything
10:35<V453000>anus hereby requires:...
10:35<argoneus>I just find most of the buzzwordy stuff useless as a programmer
10:35<andythenorth>Alberth: is a consultant
10:35<@Alberth>argoneus: that diagram is so general, you can fit it on scrum and loads of other methodologies
10:35<V453000>I like ass needs
10:35*andythenorth had better come back later
10:35<andythenorth>this page won't get validated on its own
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10:35<argoneus>Alberth: so you meet with customers, figure out what they want, figure out what you can do and how to do it, and put it in a form you can both understand and that isn't ambiguous?
10:35<dihedral>that diagramm shows general porject management :-P
10:35<argoneus>and that's all?
10:36<argoneus>there's a bunch more things like "V model"
10:36<argoneus>which literally just says "code stuff and test it" except it's a diagram
10:36<V453000>I aint no fuken model
10:36<dihedral>you probably aint pretty enough V
10:36<@Alberth>argoneus: in the end it's all "code this problem
10:37<dihedral>you could start a forums contest
10:37<dihedral>ottd top model
10:37<argoneus>Alberth: I just don't like the idea of having a general approach to solving problems
10:37<argoneus>every problem is unique, you can't just say "ok now step 5"
10:37<@Alberth>argoneus: right, and scrum isn't general?
10:37<dihedral>argoneus: why can you not
10:37<argoneus>scrum is nothing special, it's just "let's meet every day and figure out what we're gonna do"
10:37<@Alberth>argoneus: these models are high level view, of course they are general
10:38<dihedral>scrum is more than that
10:38<argoneus>all the software engineery stuff I have read about seems to imply you're doing object oriented programming
10:38<argoneus>it defines the problem and solution in OO
10:38<@Alberth>and the high level and real practice don't touch much, but it's useful to know the big global picture
10:39<argoneus>Alberth: what kind of software does your company make?
10:39<@Alberth>argoneus: you should to more realtime control in C :)
10:39<argoneus>also I assume being a consultant is stressing
10:39<@Alberth>ha :)
10:39<argoneus>realtime control?
10:39<@Alberth>embedded systems
10:39<argoneus>see, embedded systems is one place where OO just breaks down
10:40<argoneus>it doesn't work like that
10:40<@Alberth>my "customers" are researchers of the university where I also work
10:40<argoneus>can you still tailor software engineering buzzwords to it?
10:40<argoneus>or functional programming
10:40<dihedral>Alberth: what university?
10:41<@Alberth>of course you can, there sure are design methodologies that work for real time control, eg all the methodologies that existed before OO got invented
10:41<@Alberth>dihedral: Eindhoven University of Technology
10:41<@Alberth>where I build complilers and simulators for research purposes
10:42<argoneus>isn't that computer science?
10:43<@Alberth>it's pretty close to it
10:44<@Alberth>but the difference is that my code works also for real industrial cases, with proper documentation and so on
10:44<@Alberth>while research is typically building much more experimental code
10:45<@Alberth>ie just a proof of concept
10:46<argoneus>sounds fun
10:46<@Alberth>why do you think I have this job :p
10:47<argoneus>to rake in money and buy whores
10:48<@Alberth>haha nice patch, just adding a few string in a translation and you're done :p
10:50<@Alberth>oh, brix needed a post
10:52<V453000>always does
10:58<dihedral>Alberth: specifically love the screenshot in the second post
11:12<V453000>nice, constructive criticism <3
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11:20<argoneus>he did it
11:21<@Alberth>it misses a few entries :p
11:25<V453000>holy shit 3 comments
11:25<V453000>I might die of happiness
11:28<@Alberth>/me retracts the submission to avoid death of V
11:29<@Alberth>just read it later? :)
11:29<V453000>? :D
11:30<V453000>I will reply later, factorio stuff now :P
11:30<V453000>and perhaps someone else will say stuff to, I feel like by answering everything immediately people do not need to talk as much anymore XD
11:30<V453000>omg I wrote too as to
11:30*V453000 goes hang himself pronto
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11:36<LordAro>rip V
11:36<LordAro>o7 al
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12:07<supermop>isn't it evening where alberth is?
12:07<@Alberth>moin != morning
12:08<V453000>I understood it as "Alberth moans all the time" :P OR "Alberth pleases ladies where-ever he goes"
12:09<@Alberth>it's also not "moan" :p
12:10<argoneus>I moan when my terminus doesn't have deadblocks
12:11<@Alberth>that's easy, just remove an exit track :)
12:11<argoneus>what does moin even mean?
12:11<argoneus>I thought it was german for "sup" or something
12:12<V453000>it means blitzkrieg in uranus
12:12<argoneus>yeah german
12:12<argoneus>but you are dutch
12:12*argoneus is confused
12:12<@Alberth>so, I type English words too
12:13<argoneus>my head hurts
12:14<argoneus>what I mean is
12:14<argoneus>isn't it just a local thing?
12:16<@Alberth>I don't understand what your point is
12:16<argoneus>how did you get to know/use moin
12:16<@Alberth>I am not allowed to use "moin" ?
12:16<argoneus>you are allowed to use "siemka" for all I care :P
12:16<argoneus>I'm just wondering what led you to using it
12:16<argoneus>I don't know any other person/channel to use moin
12:17<@Alberth>/me blames the #openttd channel
12:17<V453000>it is the same as if I liked saying apeshit or putting iterations of fuck and shit where-ever I can because why the fucking shitnot
12:17<V453000>which I obviously don't
12:20<argoneus>you sound like a deliquent
12:21<argoneus>why is there a n
12:21<V453000>the actual fuck
12:21<V453000>delinquent dɪˈlɪŋkw(ə)nt/ adjective adjective: delinquent 1. (typically of a young person) tending to commit crime, particularly minor crime.
12:27<leolrrj>how can I increase inhabitants?
12:27<leolrrj>I have 0 inhabitants
12:28<V453000>fund buildings at the town
12:28<V453000>and then let it grow
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12:28<argoneus>leolrrj: make a bus line around the city
12:28<argoneus>with 4 stations
12:28<argoneus>in a circle
12:28<argoneus>and let 4 buses out
12:28<argoneus>at equal spacing
12:29<argoneus>or was it 5 stations
12:29<argoneus>I think it was 4
12:30<argoneus>basically every active station in the city increases growth
12:30<argoneus>up to like 4 or 5, I think it was 4
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12:54<leolrrj>how to bring grains to farm?
12:55<argoneus>farm produces grain
12:55<argoneus>you bring grain to factory
12:56<V453000>note: produces grain means it shits it, not eats it
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13:06<+tokai>There are different types of farms, no? Some farms need grain to feed their pigs and sheep. :)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27500 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2016-01-18 19:45:36 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>frisian: 16 changes by gjannema
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13:52<tt_johannes>is there a struct in the source which contains everything that's written into a savegame?
13:54<frosch123>it's all in the saveload folder
13:54<frosch123>but it's not a single struct, because it handles different versions of savegames
13:56<tt_johannes>frosch123: for example, how can I read all train station names from a savegame? can you please give me a hint?
13:57<frosch123>either patch openttd, or write a gamescript
13:57<frosch123>don't even try to write a independent savegame loader
13:57<tt_johannes>of course
13:58<tt_johannes>so if I just wanted to write a simple script using a part of openttd as library, and that script should just print all station names, nothing more...
13:58<tt_johannes>what C++ function would I need to call?
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13:59<frosch123>check the station list gui :p
13:59<tt_johannes>hang on...
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14:04<argoneus>is the savegame format really that complex?
14:04<frosch123>it is not self-descriptive
14:04<@Alberth>if you want to load all game versions, yes
14:04<frosch123>so you need to adjust the reader for every epsilon change
14:05<tt_johannes>ahh, I found SaveOrLoad...
14:05<tt_johannes>that sounds good :)
14:06<@Alberth>tip of the ice berg :p
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14:06<frosch123>tt_johannes: follow what the command line options "-g <savegame>" and "-v null" do
14:06<frosch123>the first one loads a saegame after start
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14:06<frosch123>the other one invokes a frontend driver, which in your case may print the stuff and then exitr
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14:08<tt_johannes>frosch123: what do you mean by "in your case"? Do you mean I could write a script that is being executed due to -v null?
14:11<frosch123>tt_johannes: add a file "src/video/johannes_v.cpp" using null_v.cpp as template, register it as "video driver" and then add your code to MainLoop() instead of the stuff from null_v.cpp
14:13<tt_johannes>frosch123: would you consider this as a clean, good design, or is this a hackish way to abuse the video driver thing?
14:13<frosch123>i would consider it the easiest way to insert custom code instead of the normal game loop
14:14<leolrrj>for passenger trains what type of load cargo should I choose? full load any cargo?
14:15<@Alberth>usually doesn't matter, you get more passengers than you can manage
14:15<frosch123>"load available" together with a timetables wait of 5 days
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14:19<leolrrj>frosch123: what means timetables wait of 5 days?
14:19<leolrrj>how can I set it?
14:19<frosch123> <- see there
14:19<frosch123>only set a time for "loading", not for "travel"
14:23<tt_johannes>frosch123: the savegames are loaded simply as chunks, in SlLoadChunks() ?
14:25<frosch123> { 'STNN', Save_STNN, Load_STNN, Ptrs_STNN, NULL, CH_ARRAY }, <- that line at the bottom of station_sl.cpp means that the "STNN" chunk is read by Load_STNN
14:27<tt_johannes>frosch123: ok, clear
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14:32<argoneus>is there a reason savegames aren't simple structs?
14:35<__ln__>because the representation of a struct in a file is platform-dependent.
14:39<frosch123>the art of giving an absurd answer to an absurd question :)
14:39<@Alberth>you would need a different struct for each savegame version, which are 194 currently
14:40<@Alberth>probably there are few more than that
14:40<V453000>XD +1 frosch123
14:46<tt_johannes>so all the information about stations is stored in globals?
14:46<tt_johannes>in this case, the StationList variable?
14:46<frosch123>it's stored in the Station pool
14:47<frosch123>StationList sounds like a temporary thing
14:47<argoneus>why is it an absurd question? o.o
14:47<tt_johannes>the best thing I can see is that station_sl stores all the stuff in _station_desc
14:47<argoneus>how much data is there in a savegame
14:47<argoneus>the tilemap, companies, their stats..?
14:47<frosch123>tt_johannes: it ends up in _station_pool, which you access by Station::Get(station_id)
14:48<frosch123>and iteratate by FOR_ALL_STATIONS(st) {}
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14:49<frosch123>argoneus: the correct question would have been: why is the savegame not stored in a self-describing format
14:50<tt_johannes>frosch123: The loader only stores them in _station_desc... Where is the data from _station_desc transmitted to _station_pool?
14:51<frosch123>tt_johannes: _station_desc is a static constant
14:51<frosch123>SlObject(bst, waypoint ? _waypoint_desc : _station_desc); <- the data is stored in "bst"
14:52<tt_johannes>frosch123: but bst looses scope... so where is the pointer remembered?
14:53<frosch123>see the "index" parameter to the new operator
14:53<frosch123>that index is the station-id
14:53<argoneus>frosch123: well you can write and read structs trivially if you know their size
14:53<argoneus>assuming they don't change much between patches
14:53<frosch123>you can access it via the station pool, as written above
14:54<frosch123>argoneus: you can jump into water easily, assuming you can swim
14:54<frosch123>i still have trouble with giving absurd answers
14:55<argoneus>frosch123: what exactly changes in a savegame between patches?
14:55<argoneus>if you add a new feature or fix a bug a savefile shouldn't care about that
14:55<tt_johannes>oh oh, I recall things like "new (x) y;", this was one of the complicated things of C++...
14:55<argoneus>unless it's save-breaking somehow
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14:56<frosch123>tt_johannes: it's worse in this case :p
14:56<frosch123>ignore the word "new" in that line
14:56<frosch123>and just assume it gives you station "index"
14:57<tt_johannes>frosch123: I must get it ... :P
14:57<frosch123>tt_johannes: do you know "emplace" in c++11 containers?
14:57<tt_johannes>where is that new thing described? how do I google that?
14:57<tt_johannes>frosch123: yes
14:58<frosch123>ok, openttd twists "new" in some dirty tricks to work like emplace
14:58<frosch123>because ottd is older than c++11
14:58<frosch123>"new (index) Station()" returns "_station_pool[index]", and initialises it
14:59<tt_johannes>it says that "char* p = new('*') char[6];" creates an array of six chars, each initialized with a * ?
14:59<frosch123>tt_johannes: src/core/pool_type.hpp: inline void *operator new(size_t size, size_t index)
15:00<argoneus>I guess I can see why things are messy now :P
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15:01<frosch123>argoneus: really, when you have a frying pan made of plastic, the correct question is not "why is it not made of stone?"
15:02<frosch123>you are complaining about how things were coded around 2000, and suggest to code them like one did in 1970
15:02<tt_johannes>frosch123: ok, now I start getting that constructor thing .... :p
15:05<tt_johannes>ok, so all the data is stored in pools...
15:05<tt_johannes>now, what I actually wanted to do is making a graph of all the train lines....
15:06<argoneus>frosch123: it doesn't have to be a struct, but it doesn't look complicated
15:06<argoneus>just a unified format that's described somewhere...
15:07<tt_johannes>I guess that can only be done with using the "implicit" stations? That's the best way to guess what routes my trains are taking?
15:08<frosch123>FOR_ALL_STATIONS should give you the nodes
15:08<frosch123>FOR_ALL_ORDERLISTS shuold give you the edges
15:08<argoneus>I just don't see why you'd have to load a savegame in some mystical chunks when you need all of it anyway
15:10<tt_johannes>great, many thanks!
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15:10<tt_johannes>from just grepping the source, I think openttd should still be compilable with non-c++11-compilers?
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15:11<frosch123>currently it is compileable with both 98 and 11
15:11<tt_johannes>and that won't change in the next months, right?
15:11<frosch123>likely :p
15:11<frosch123>1.5. does not compile with 11, or at least not without warngins
15:11<frosch123>trunk compiles with both
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15:16<argoneus>hey andyman
15:16<V453000>good evening good sir
15:17<V453000>may thee pixels obey your will
15:18<V453000> /thy will?
15:18<argoneus>yo will fam
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15:21<argoneus>V453000: have you ever made 3d porn
15:22<argoneus>asking for a friend
15:22<argoneus>I like your optimism
15:22<V453000>I like how you are asking for a friend
15:22*andythenorth made Flash porn
15:22<andythenorth>several times
15:23<argoneus>andythenorth: link? for a friend
15:23<andythenorth>nah, long since removed
15:23<V453000>yeah my friends suddenly raised their attention as well
15:23<argoneus>that feel when you will never make porn because you can't draw
15:23<argoneus>why live
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15:23<andythenorth>I don’t know
15:23<argoneus>andythenorth you will know
15:24<argoneus>do porn artists get pleasure out of their own works?
15:24<V453000>I don't think you are unable to make pron just because you can't draw
15:24<argoneus>or would that be similar to incest
15:24<andythenorth>I feel the conversation here has taken a dive
15:24<V453000>I think most of 3D shit comes from asia
15:24<argoneus>it's because you mentioned flash porn
15:24<V453000>so I wouldn't be surprised about anything
15:24<argoneus>V453000: the quality of it is crap though
15:24<argoneus>the devs and artists barely get paid anything and they have tight deadlines
15:25<V453000>can't say I am a large scale consumer of that. XD
15:25<argoneus>it doesn't sell much apparently
15:25<argoneus>all I'm saying is
15:25<argoneus>if you decide to do 3d porn, don't expect to profit off it
15:25<V453000>WELL SHAME
15:25<V453000>still, I bet if it's good it makes shitload of money
15:25<argoneus>you can draw comics though
15:25<V453000>esp with some VR and devices and stuff
15:25<argoneus>oh yeah
15:26<argoneus>VR might boost the sales a lot
15:26<V453000>if the "gameplay" is good, ... :)
15:26<argoneus>a friend of mine would surely buy one if he had the money
15:26<V453000>see, $$$$
15:26<argoneus>V453000 will you get an oculus rift
15:27<argoneus>with your factoriodosh
15:27<argoneus>it only costs 800 euro
15:28<V453000>I respect the technology, but I do not really like detaching myself from the reality completely. I like staring at a screen or whatever, but putting goggles with headphones on my head to be completely fucked and disconnected sounds to me like going way too far. And I would consider myself as far from a "normal person"
15:28<andythenorth>also it currently makes lots of people sick
15:28<andythenorth>some people are susceptible, some are not
15:28<andythenorth>possibly depends how good your ears at balance
15:28<andythenorth>or something similar
15:28<argoneus>it's just motion sickness
15:28<argoneus>it's not VR sickness
15:29<V453000>which is another hm thing
15:29<andythenorth>it’s motion sickness, but eh, you’re not moving? o_O
15:29<andythenorth>so inverse motion sickness?
15:29<@planetmaker>ho ho :)
15:29<V453000>but if I had no wife and money to spare, I would probably buy it just to try the pron XD
15:29*argoneus throws the mature V453000 that doesn't want to detach himself from reality into the trash
15:30<V453000>even though I do not think it is perfectly fine to live with virtual/over-sexualized ideas either
15:30<V453000>but ye, 'tever
15:30<argoneus>people have had fantasies since forever
15:30<V453000>of course
15:31<argoneus>and tbh
15:31<V453000>it's always about perception and how the individual handles it in their head
15:31<argoneus>I'd rather have sheltered neckbeards who get off to virtual girls than people who commit heinous crimes on the street
15:31<V453000>heh well, that is kind of obvious :P
15:31<@planetmaker>long live the matrix
15:32<argoneus>but yeah I see where you are going
15:32<argoneus>people have died of starvation playing world of warcraft
15:32<@Alberth>andythenorth: motion sickness is about discrepancies between what you see and movement that you feel. While a car is moving you are sitting still
15:32<argoneus>let alone if they immerse themselves fully
15:32<argoneus>it shouldn't be an issue with moderation though
15:32<andythenorth>Alberth…but your ears are moving
15:32<V453000>it is all very relative :)
15:32<andythenorth>in space
15:32<argoneus>I can't wait for someone to stop eating and die playing VR stuff and then they will have to shut down
15:32<andythenorth>but do you know?
15:32<andythenorth>if there’s no acceleration...
15:33<V453000>argoneus: I am talking more about the psychological side of things rather than you would die because you do not do XYZ
15:33<andythenorth>argoneus: “I can’t wait for” :P
15:33<andythenorth>does not come across well in irc :P
15:33<@Alberth>in space there is also no reference point to see you're moving :p
15:33<andythenorth>“I wish someone would die"
15:33<argoneus>it was sarcasm
15:33<argoneus>or however to call it
15:33<@Alberth>but yeah, you'd get sick too, I think
15:33<argoneus>but it's a common thing
15:33<argoneus>when someone shoots up a school they always blame videogames
15:34<argoneus>as if it wasn't bad enough already :(
15:34<argoneus>VR might take it to the next level
15:34<argoneus>I actually never thought about this, thanks V453000 for the nightmare fuel
15:34<V453000>well yeah that is another thing
15:34<argoneus>I never thought about people immersing themselves so much they can't tell reality apart
15:35<argoneus>it probably will happen won't it
15:35<V453000>that is not really what I meant
15:35<argoneus>what did you mean then fuck :D
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15:36<V453000>In specific what I was talking about is that when you watch porn (a lot), some people often tend to expect women to be over-sexualized and do not appreciate "normal" women, it changes their expectations and requirements. What I meant was that VR could make this even more noticeable/dangerous
15:36<argoneus>ooooh, porn
15:37<V453000>of course it matters how the person perceives it and how they handle it in their head
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15:37<V453000>but I believe such effect is there on average / in general
15:37<argoneus>watching porn has made me appreciate "normal" women more
15:37<argoneus>porn actors are disgusting to me for some reason
15:38<argoneus>it all feels fake and staged
15:38<V453000>I honestly have no clue what influence it had on me, I did not make that study :P
15:38<argoneus>(I wonder why
15:38<andythenorth>V453000: you have no control group :D
15:38<V453000>but just considering what effects would VR have
15:38<V453000>andythenorth: control group? :D
15:38<argoneus>V453000: people who don't watch porn
15:38<andythenorth>you’d need at least two V453000s
15:39<andythenorth>and that’s one too many
15:39<V453000>I didn't say I boycott it 100%
15:40<argoneus>looking at who makes porn games
15:40<argoneus>the VR experience will probably be anime girls
15:40<argoneus>im not sure how I feel about this
15:40<V453000>anime feels wtf weird to me in general so ye
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15:41<argoneus>I like my chinese cartoons but I wouldn't obsess over it
15:41<argoneus>it's just a story someone wrote
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15:42<frosch123>V453000: maybe continue with hentai then
15:42<frosch123>you know negative * negative = positive ?
15:43<V453000>not sure it applies anywhere XD
15:44<V453000>does hentai always mean tentacle shit?
15:44<V453000>or the drawn crap in geneal?
15:44<argoneus>it's generally japanese drawn porn
15:45<argoneus>doesn't matter if it's moving or has tentacles or whatever
15:45<V453000>well I don't get any of the drawn stuff in general
15:45<argoneus>it's generally common fantasies
15:45<argoneus>that you can't really explore otherwise
15:45<argoneus>I mean, if they wanted something realistic they wouldn't need to draw it, right
15:46<V453000>well yeah that is understandable, but the visual style is really repulsive to me
15:46<argoneus>it's not rocket science
15:46<argoneus>that's just japs for you
15:46<argoneus>I kinda like the art
15:46<argoneus>some animes even have a decent plot
15:47<argoneus>(as opposed to "plot")
15:47<V453000>I believe that
15:47<argoneus>I watch western stuff too
15:47<argoneus>it's just
15:47<frosch123>V453000: if you say, you are a "haptic" person, it sounds cooler
15:47<argoneus>if people don't like it can't blame them :P
15:47<V453000>but looking at a for-children-like cartoon which should turn me on, is WTF
15:47<argoneus>"for children"
15:47<V453000>won't ask what means haptic
15:47<argoneus>I have bad news for you :D
15:48<V453000>argoneus: visual style..
15:48<frosch123>i am pretty sure someone wrote oni the forums that NUTS looks like it is for kids
15:48<V453000>do they jack off to it as well?
15:49<argoneus>V453000: there's some popular gorey/mature anime
15:49<argoneus>where their eyes don't take half their face
15:49<argoneus>it's just stylization
15:49<V453000>ye whatever
15:50<argoneus>when someone says anime most people imagine the schoolgirl moeshit
15:50<argoneus>where they do retarded shit that's supposed to be cute
15:50<argoneus>is that about right
15:50<V453000>yeah cute except with dicks XDD
15:50<V453000> /or other things
15:51<argoneus>as weird as it may seem
15:51<argoneus>some people are into that :(
15:51<V453000>well don't judge :) that i do not understand it does not mean I am against anybody doing it
15:51<V453000>people are weird, especially in this area.
15:51<argoneus>everyone is weird :P
15:52<argoneus>I'm sure if we went deep enough we'd find fucked up stuff inside you
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15:52<V453000> /surely
15:53<argoneus>many of my friends who hated everything eastern eventually found an anime they actually liked
15:54<argoneus>it's an absurdly huge set of different genres
15:56<argoneus>saying "anime sucks" is like saying "movies suck"
15:58<frosch123>but, movies do suck?
16:00<argoneus>frosch123: that's pretty rude ok
16:00<argoneus>I bet you don't even store your movies in a struct
16:00<frosch123>just as much as eddi stores his ottd savegames in a struct
16:01<argoneus>I still don't get why you had to be so condescending :(
16:01<argoneus>what did I do to you frosch friend
16:01<argoneus>instead of a simple "no that's stupid" I got a bunch of weird analogies
16:03<frosch123>you were approaching the singularity
16:03*andythenorth is highly singular
16:04<V453000>if you expect everybody to be "weird", defining what is "rude" is pretty tough
16:04<argoneus>oh boy here ew go
16:04<argoneus>frosch123: then at least riddle me this
16:04<argoneus>why do saves break inbetween patches?
16:04<argoneus>is there no spec for savegame structure?
16:05<V453000>pathes are shit, go watch tetris porn
16:05<V453000>bombs fired
16:06<frosch123>savegame format version 1: amount of money, amount of trains, amount of ships. savegame saved as: 234984, 421, 0
16:07<frosch123>savegame format version 2: new feature "roadvehicles" -> format: amount of rv, amount of money, amount of trains, amount of ships
16:07<andythenorth>all the things I don’t buy on ebay
16:07<frosch123>loading of old save -> 234984 road vehicles, 421 money, 0 trains, crash
16:07<argoneus>frosch123: I get this, that makes sense
16:08<argoneus>but if it breaks even inbetween bugfix patches
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16:08<argoneus>where no feature that has to be saved in savegame is added
16:08<argoneus>isn't that weird?
16:08<argoneus>at least that's what I understood before
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16:09<frosch123>you do realize that ottd 1.5.3 does not only load 1.5.2 savegames? but also 0.0.1 saves?
16:09<argoneus>well, I can't say I've tried
16:09<argoneus>I was basing it off you telling the guy that he shouldn't even try parsing the savegames himself
16:09<argoneus>which sounded like the format was somehow very weird
16:10<frosch123>and that you would have to create a new titlescreen from scratch, if every feature broke the savegame format
16:10<argoneus>and changed all the time
16:10<frosch123>argoneus: yes, there are 195 savegame versions in 10 years
16:10<frosch123>isn't that pretty much "all the time"?
16:11<@planetmaker>and every major patch has its own unique version incompatible with any official format
16:11<argoneus>a new savegame version every 18 days
16:11<@planetmaker>as it adds something to the savegame, as it stores something additional
16:11<argoneus>that's.... wow
16:11<argoneus>I thought it was like every half a year or so
16:12<argoneus>seems like it'd be quicker to just download the source for the version you want, and make it save relevant info about the map to another file when it loads a map
16:12<frosch123>there were 50 version between 0.5.0 and 0.6.0
16:12<frosch123>compared to 6 between 1.4.0 and 1.5.0
16:13<frosch123>and 0 between 1.5.0 and 1.6.0 :p
16:13<argoneus>wait, does something like cargodist warrant a new savegame format?
16:13<argoneus>oh wait, every savegame has all the game settings stored on it
16:13<argoneus>oh my god
16:13<argoneus>putting all this into perspective
16:14<argoneus>"just put it in a struct" is probably ignorant :P
16:14<andythenorth>adding a manganese cargo, got a way to dig it up and export it
16:14<andythenorth>but no way to use process it into anything useful
16:14<andythenorth>Bad Feature?
16:15<frosch123>is manganee produced by the paper mill?
16:16<andythenorth>coincidentally not
16:18<V453000>wtf is manganese?
16:18<V453000>manga porn tapes?
16:19<V453000>oh this shit
16:19<frosch123>i think it is used in cheap tooth fillings
16:19<V453000>is actually called mangan in czech yeah XD
16:19<argoneus>"manga porn tapes"
16:19<argoneus>god damn it :D
16:20<V453000>jesus christ andythenorth don't we have enough rock-type cargoes which look the same fucking gray-ish way to draw already
16:20<V453000>? :d
16:20<V453000> /me drops 100% FIRS support for NUTS cause this is derailing XD
16:20<argoneus>uranium when
16:20<argoneus>andy is FIRS man?
16:21<V453000>im done
16:21<argoneus>"andythenorth and others"
16:21<frosch123>andythenorth: remove fruits, add bananas and tomatoes instead
16:21<andythenorth>not me
16:21<andythenorth>frosch123: I do like bananas and tomatos
16:21<argoneus>>GPL v6
16:21<andythenorth>or tomatoes
16:21<andythenorth>they are some of my favourite fruits
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16:21<V453000>except tomatoes are vegetable
16:21<argoneus>andythenorth: FIRS has nice art
16:21<V453000>I WIN
16:21<frosch123>andythenorth: and they are visually distinguishable
16:21<argoneus>you are a good man
16:22<argoneus>FIRS art suits openttd
16:22<argoneus>unlike NUTS
16:22*argoneus hides
16:22<andythenorth>yellow, red
16:22<andythenorth>green apples also?
16:22<V453000>argoneus wait for BRIX :>
16:22<V453000>then shit blood
16:22<andythenorth>frosch123: can you make alcohol from bananas?
16:22<argoneus>I'd rather not
16:22<argoneus>that sounds unhealthy
16:22<andythenorth>V453000 are you going to do BRIX-style sprites for all of FIRS?
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16:22<frosch123>andythenorth: you can make alcohol even from hazelnut
16:22<argoneus>wait V453000
16:22<V453000>yeah no
16:23<argoneus>weren't you making something like that already?
16:23<argoneus>I remember you linking some ground textures
16:23<andythenorth>is it elephants get drunk on fermenting bananas?
16:23<V453000>haha my threats are coming more realistic now? :P
16:23<argoneus>oh yeah
16:23<andythenorth>and smash houses?
16:23<V453000>RAWR is bad concept
16:23<V453000>BRIX shall wreck shit
16:23<frosch123>no, those are other fruits
16:24<argoneus>V453000 you have some interesting naming schemes
16:24<frosch123>but yes, elephants instead of regular livestock is also good
16:24<V453000>in soviet transport, brix shit you
16:24<argoneus>aren't you about running out of 4 letter names?
16:24<V453000>bet I forgot some
16:24<@Alberth>argoneus: ever calculated how many 4 letter names exist?
16:25<argoneus>Alberth: nope
16:25<frosch123>what is GEAR and RIDE?
16:25<argoneus>that's nontrivial
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16:25<argoneus>ZALX is not a valid name
16:25<@Alberth>@calc 26*26*26*26
16:25<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 456976
16:25<V453000>GEAR is a train set I will make one day, RIDE was a RV set I started making models for, but now I will use them in BRIX
16:25<argoneus>it has to be an actual word ok
16:25<@Alberth>yeah, very nontrivial indeed :)
16:25<argoneus>your calculation produces XXXX as valid
16:25<V453000>anyway I gtfo
16:25<@Alberth>like RAWR is a word
16:25<argoneus>I don't want porn in my openttd
16:26<@Alberth>gn V
16:26<__ln__>why not?
16:26<V453000>train porn not good enough?
16:26<V453000>btw BRIX Realism is XXXX
16:26<V453000>just saying
16:26<argoneus>V453000: you should make a mod
16:26<argoneus>Completely Universal New Trains
16:26<argoneus>as a sequel to NUTS
16:26<V453000> /me runs in tears
16:27<V453000>NUTS sequel will be GEAR
16:27<frosch123>only dorpsgek can make mods
16:27<@Alberth>hope you can sleep despite
16:27<argoneus>but they are mods
16:27<argoneus>stop bully
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16:39<andythenorth>maybe Steel Mill should accept manganese not scrap metal
16:39<andythenorth>or maybe there should be ’steel mill inputs yard'
16:39<andythenorth>which makes ‘steel mill supplies’ o_O
16:40<supermop>make iron first then make steel out of that?
16:40<andythenorth>what’s the chain?
16:41<argoneus>andythenorth: what about uranium
16:43<andythenorth>problem is boringly low production amounts
16:43<andythenorth>uranium, diamonds, gold, coltan, other rare earths
16:43<andythenorth>all low output
16:43<andythenorth>not a lot of challenge
16:44<argoneus>you can bring uranium to nuclear plants
16:44<argoneus>and then bring waste to the ocean
16:44<argoneus>and get paid for it
16:45<@Alberth>at 1 wagon every year?
16:45<argoneus>make the price spike
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16:46<argoneus>what's wrong with having ultra-rare resources :o
16:46<andythenorth>nothing, but it’s boring to transport
16:47<andythenorth>the game (as I play it) works best with 100t-1000t industry outputs
16:47<andythenorth>that creates enough traffic chaos to keep routing challenging
16:47<andythenorth>but isn’t wtf
16:49<argoneus>oh right
16:49<argoneus>the game should be fun
16:49<argoneus>I forgo
16:49*andythenorth learns about steel alloys
16:56<andythenorth>maybe FIRS needs a total rethink
16:56<andythenorth>frosch123: 128 cargos?
16:57<andythenorth>9 input, 6 output per industry?
16:58<argoneus>andythenorth: might as well play factorio
16:59<andythenorth>does factorio have other metals added to steel for steel alloys?
16:59<argoneus>possibly with mods
16:59<argoneus>in vanilla you just burn iron ore into iron
16:59<argoneus>and then burn iron into steel
16:59<andythenorth>‘not realism'
16:59<argoneus>there are mods that make it complex af
17:00<argoneus>but it adds tedium in my experience
17:12<andythenorth>also bedtime
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17:13<argoneus>why does everyone leave irc when they go bed
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20:59<supermop>new american road bridges looking good
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21:02<Supercheese>yeah TBRS is great but you get the mix of the modern road surfaces on bridges when all roads are dirt/cobblestone
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21:26<supermop>i actually don't really like tbrs
21:26<supermop>but there arent any other bridge sets
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21:42<Supercheese>I like the tied arches
21:42<Supercheese>very good looking bridges
22:04<Flygon>What I want
22:04<Flygon>Are bridges for rivers that don't need the damn incline
22:04<Flygon>They're everywhere in Australia
22:04<Flygon>For railways, for roads
22:04<Flygon>Why not OpenTTD? D:
22:04<Flygon>Just block ships from going through
22:09<Supercheese>sounds like an application for an object
22:09<Supercheese>like those new creeks/small rivers from the Australia thread
22:10<Supercheese>they have the fake bridges already, even
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22:38<Flygon>Supercheese: Yeah, but I meant something RVs can actually drive on
22:38<Flygon>No speed limit, either
22:38<Flygon>All the ones, at least, locally
22:38<Flygon>Are at least 100km/h
22:39<Flygon>Or - The same speed limit as the road
22:39<Flygon>And the ones on NSW's Freeways are 110km/h...
22:46<Supercheese>Ok, bulldoze river, build road tile, build adjacent objects faking a bridge
22:46<Supercheese>that's basically what you want, no?
22:46<Supercheese>just gotta make the objects look fancy enough
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 19 00:00:11 2016