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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-01-28

---Logopened Thu Jan 28 00:00:24 2016
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04:20<Eddi|zuHause>what a "security warning" looks like to normal people:
04:27<@planetmaker>hehe, indeed
04:31<^Spike^>sounds true :)
04:31<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: did you get anywhere with the build dependency problem?
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04:50<@peter1138>pretty much
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05:13<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, sorry not yet... there was work work
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07:28<Wolf01>nice, would I be able to do paris-amsterdam in 1 hour?
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07:42<argoneus>good morning train friends
07:44<argoneus>turns out dytech makes factorio fun
07:44<argoneus>I'm not sure I can play vanilla anymore
07:45<argoneus>having stuff like smart short long handed close inserter makes stuff more flexible
07:45<argoneus>and the metallurgy thing is great
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11:52<tt_johannes>where should one lookup the tile indices?
11:52<tt_johannes>is there a tile pool?
11:52<tt_johannes>e.g., BaseStation has a "TileIndex xy;"
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>there are helper function that turn an (x,y) coordinate into a TileIndex and back
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12:02<Eddi|zuHause>try src/map_func.h
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>and to find out what's on the tile you need to use the map accessor functions (in src/*_map.h)
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12:10<tt_johannes>Eddi|zuHause: ah, ok, looks like a tileindex is just two tiles pushed into one 32 bit int
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there's no deep magic involved...
12:11<@planetmaker>but use the proper accessor functions. Don't re-invent the wheel
12:11<@planetmaker>get_tile_by_index or similar exists. etc
12:11<tt_johannes>I know: TileX(), TileY(), right?
12:12<tt_johannes>get_tile_by_index... does not exist
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that's nonsense
12:15<_dp_>there are Industry::GetByTile(TileIndex) and similar
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12:22<tt_johannes>how to compile with -g ? something like CXXFLAGS=-g ./configure ?
12:25<tt_johannes>--enable-debug=3 ?
12:25<@Alberth>./configure --enable-debug=3
12:28<tt_johannes>hm it recompiled, but valgrind keeps saying: ==15017== at 0x855B95: VideoDriver_Graph::MainLoop() (in /data/cprogs/openttd/installed/games/openttd)
12:29<tt_johannes>the CFLAGS variable has no -g
12:29<tt_johannes>oh it has!
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13:32<@Rubidium>tt_johannes: running the wrong openttd binary? (i.e. not the built one but an installed one)
13:33<tt_johannes>Rubidium: ah indeed! I had to run make install first!
13:35<@Alberth>make gdbrun or something?
13:35<tt_johannes>valgrind should do it...
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13:45<Eddi|zuHause>i think it was make run_gdb (or possibly run-gdb)
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13:45<@Alberth>hi hi
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>whichever i pick, it's always the wrong one :p
13:47<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: those are better odds than an USB connector ;)
13:48<andythenorth>so pypy3 for nml?
13:48*andythenorth is trying to work out under what conditions it is better
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yeah. USB only ever works in the 3rd try :p
13:48<andythenorth>for code changes only, a FIRS recompile with primed cache is *substantially* faster with pypy3 than any py3.x I have
13:49<V453000>how great idea is it to have 6448 sprites per engine? XD
13:50<V453000>hm might need to almost double that
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: depends on how big you expect people's sprite cache to be :p
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13:51<@Alberth>one engine per newgrf? :)
13:51<V453000>maybe? :D
13:52<andythenorth>for a change to a single png and otherwise primed cache, the FIRS compile time with pypy3 (50s) is close to the unprimed cache condition (1m)
13:53<andythenorth>which is…interesting
13:53<andythenorth>same condition for all python 3.x afaict
13:54<andythenorth>so a single changed png negates much of the caching?
14:00<andythenorth>docs rendering seems much slower under pypy3
14:00<andythenorth>maybe chameleon performance is poor
14:01<Wolf01>o/ cat man
14:09<Wolf01>andy, how many claas xerion will you purchase?
14:10<Wolf01>with my technic group we decided that at least 2 each is a fair number
14:23<tt_johannes>configure does not work somehow...
14:23<tt_johannes>when I type make it compiles
14:23<tt_johannes>(including a configure)
14:24<tt_johannes>when I then tell qtcreator to run make in the same directory, it configures and makes again
14:24<tt_johannes>and when I go back to the commandline, make is invoking a configure again
14:32<@planetmaker>uhm... qtcreator? The question is, does that happen, if you only ever use make. And not qtcreator in between
14:32<@planetmaker>it might update whatever files in between. And with newer time stamp on some relevant ones, configure has to be re-executed
14:33<tt_johannes>planetmaker: If I type make twice, it works
14:33<tt_johannes>it's just when I switch between konsole and the IDE
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14:34<tt_johannes>when I typed make after qtcreator, it said: "The system detected that source.list or any configure file is altered. Going to reconfigure with last known settings...
14:37<@planetmaker>well. There you go. Don't touch those files, unless you want a re-compile
14:37<@planetmaker>it's not configure's fault but your IDE, saving crap all over, without it being changed
14:37<@Alberth>check for changes relative to the repo?
14:38<@Alberth>clearly the ide is doing something :)
14:38<@Alberth>but yeah, pseudo-smart software, such joys.... :p
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14:42<tt_johannes>planetmaker: what files could the IDE change? Of course, it has project files that it changes, but does openttd's configure tool know about them?
14:42<tt_johannes>I did not register these prohect files
14:43<andythenorth>Wolf01: probably no Xerion
14:43<andythenorth>probably only the Volvo
14:43<andythenorth>and even that, not sure
14:46<andythenorth>it’s all nice, but eh, maybe I have enough technic
14:46<andythenorth>and it’s mostly very expensive
14:47<andythenorth>I am not sure about all these AFOL focussed sets
14:47<andythenorth>not sure if there are enough AFOLs
14:48<Wolf01>we are a nice group here :P
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14:50<+glx>[19:48:48] <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah. USB only ever works in the 3rd try :p <-- still better than SCART
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14:50<Eddi|zuHause>hehe ;)
14:56<tt_johannes>an unformatted graph, not yet improved, just for fun to show some progress:
14:57<andythenorth>USB is for putting essential malware on your machine?
14:57<andythenorth>SCART can’t do that
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15:01*Supercheese had never heard of SCART before now
15:01<Supercheese>you learn something new each day
15:01<andythenorth>Wolf01: there is some serious reverse engineering of the Porsche in Eurobricks
15:01<andythenorth>mostly the sequential gear paddles
15:02<andythenorth>nobody knows much else
15:02<andythenorth>but if they’re right, it’s very technically neat
15:10*andythenorth back to FIRS
15:12<andythenorth>Road Hog doesn’t compile under pypy3
15:12<andythenorth>what larks
15:13<@planetmaker>tt_johannes, if you have them open, it might simply save them w/o any change. Maybe. I don't know that IDE
15:13<Wolf01>wow, sequential gearbox :O
15:14<andythenorth>Lego pushing envelope
15:15<andythenorth>hmm nmlc -s isn’t getting me a useful stack trace
15:17<andythenorth>ah 2 definitions of flags in makefile
15:18<andythenorth>dropping the -c option for nmlc does not help
15:23<frosch123>it's the sprite compression
15:24<frosch123>you cannot disable that :p
15:24<andythenorth>it’s pypy3 FWIW
15:24<andythenorth>I was surprised it worked for FIRS :P
15:24<andythenorth>I am curious why Road Hog fails, Iron Horse and FIRS don't
15:24<andythenorth>same nmlc, PILLOW etc
15:25<andythenorth>you might validly suspect simple user error
15:25<andythenorth>but I can’t see what I did wrong
15:27<andythenorth>FISH works also
15:27<frosch123>different palette?
15:27<frosch123>did you go 32bpp?
15:28<frosch123>what about the spritecache?
15:28<frosch123>it won't encode if the spritecache is filled
15:29<andythenorth>how would I determine that?
15:30*andythenorth tries other pythons meanwhile
15:30<andythenorth>road hog is surprisingly big
15:31<andythenorth>4600 sprites
15:31<andythenorth>FIRS has only 3864
15:31<andythenorth>vehicle cargo support I guess
15:32<andythenorth>0 cached
15:32<andythenorth>even on repeat runs
15:32<andythenorth>ah, they probably don’t cache because they’re regenerated every time in the compile
15:33<tt_johannes>planetmaker: well, it's a very good IDE (the one most kde/qt developers use), I don't think that it will do that :P
15:33<andythenorth>road hog sprites all get pixa processed on every compile :P
15:33<tt_johannes>I mostly wonder why it re-calls the configure file, that's really strange
15:34<andythenorth>balls, instead of finishing FIRS I am pissing around timing compile runs :)
15:34<andythenorth>not even trying to make them faster, just pure timewasting
15:35<andythenorth>how does that xkcd ‘automate’ chart apply, when you don’t bother with the ‘automate’ bit :P
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15:49<Supercheese>I generally find myself firmly on the "don't bother automating" side of that chart
15:49<andythenorth>I would like to automate tasks like shaving
15:49<andythenorth>and cleaning teeth
15:49<Supercheese>like the paperwork I have to do at the office... yeah, there's quite probably a better way to automate it, but it would not be worth the time investment
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20:17<Winter_Fox>Hi o/
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20:54<klote>any one here?
20:54<klote>i have a question regarding dedicated server settup
20:54<klote>for openttd
20:55<klote>I got a citybuilder server setup which requiers the client to build a HQ
20:55<klote>they are able to replace the HQ every time
20:55<klote>how do i dissable this?
20:56<klote>i cant find this in the Settings
20:58*Mazur does not know.
21:00<klote>and another question regarding ingamescripts im looking for a Long goal script a simple goal where people need to reach a certain ammount of company value in order to win the game
21:00<klote>If it exists in the list i cant find it or dont know the right name for this script
21:01*Mazur does not know.
21:01<klote>lol k wel u atleast awnsered :P
21:03<Mazur>Unlike the ogthers, I am awake and at my computer.
21:05<klote>they all eu?
21:07<Mazur>Yes, OpenTTD is mostly EU, some Oz, some US.
21:09<klote>whats Oz?
21:12<Mazur>Down under.
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22:56<Supercheese>The land of Slow Internet
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 29 00:00:25 2016