| --- | Log | opened Fri Jan 29 00:00:25 2016 |
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| 06:40 | <debdog> | do vehicles perform any actions (loadin/unloading) at stations which were added automagicly to the oders (implicit orders)? |
| 06:40 | <debdog> | or do they just drive through? |
| 06:40 | <debdog> | https://wiki.openttd.org/Automatic_Orders |
| 06:46 | <@peter1138> | yes |
| 06:46 | <debdog> | hmm, is there a way to prevent this? |
| 06:47 | <debdog> | wait |
| 06:47 | <debdog> | yes to "pass through" or "yes to "perform action"? |
| 06:47 | <Pikka> | implicit orders aren't real |
| 06:49 | <debdog> | ok, thanksd |
| 06:49 | <debdog> | hehe -d |
| 06:49 | <debdog> | don't need a demon for that (yet) ;) |
| 06:52 | <@peter1138> | use "non-stop" orders to stop vehicles from using unscheduled stops |
| 06:52 | <argoneus> | good morning train friends |
| 06:52 | <Pikka> | an implicit order just means that the train stopped at that station last time round, but the station wasn't in its orders. You can avoid their appearance altogether by doing that thing peter said. |
| 06:53 | <debdog> | ok |
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| 07:12 | <@planetmaker> | debdog, the 'implicit orders' tell you what the vehicle actually does, thus where it stops. You can change that by using non-stop goto orders (or not using the non-stop option) |
| 07:12 | <@planetmaker> | for the real orders in the list |
| 07:13 | <@planetmaker> | thus the purpose of the implicit orders is not so much that they are orders, but rather information for you to tell you what your orders (also) imply additional to what you explicitly ordered the vehicles to do |
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| 07:23 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
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| 08:20 | <debdog> | all right, thanks for all the explanations, I think I've got it now! |
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| 09:08 | -!- | founder is now known as openbu |
| 09:09 | <openbu> | I'm studying NML 0.4.4 |
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| 11:39 | <Wolf01> | This site requires Sun Java 6.0.0.1 (32-bit) or higher. You have Macromedia Java 7.3.8.1¾ (48-bit). Click here [link to java.com main page] to download an installer which will run fine but not really change anything. |
| 11:39 | <Wolf01> | lol |
| 11:40 | <@Alberth> | MacroMedia Java??? |
| 11:40 | <Wolf01> | and 48-bit |
| 11:41 | <Wolf01> | (it's XKCD) |
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| 12:56 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 12:58 | <andythenorth> | someone is wrong on the internet |
| 12:58 | <Wolf01> | nah |
| 12:58 | <andythenorth> | Wolf01: so how much do you think Volvo license adds to price of 42030? :P |
| 12:58 | <andythenorth> | in €0.00 ? |
| 12:59 | <Wolf01> | the entire internet is wrong |
| 12:59 | <Wolf01> | like 20€ |
| 13:00 | <andythenorth> | nah |
| 13:00 | <andythenorth> | probably it actually reduces the cost per set |
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| 13:00 | <andythenorth> | Lego will have had extensive access to Volvo equipment and brand assets |
| 13:00 | <andythenorth> | Volvo get publicity they couldn’t otherwise buy |
| 13:00 | <Wolf01> | oh, right, Volvo != Disney |
| 13:02 | <@Alberth> | nice supply yard, andy, hadn't see that one yet |
| 13:14 | <Wolf01> | http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aGxZ68X_460s.jpg :D |
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| 13:20 | <andythenorth> | is that HEQS? |
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| 13:28 | <@Alberth> | :D |
| 13:37 | <andythenorth> | so anyone else got pypy? |
| 13:37 | <andythenorth> | :P |
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| 13:40 | <roidal_> | pypy? |
| 13:41 | <andythenorth> | pypy3 to be precise |
| 13:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what for? |
| 13:42 | <roidal_> | that triggered a hilight on my client |
| 13:42 | <roidal_> | pypy is one of my nicks :P |
| 13:42 | <roidal_> | and no, iam using the standard CPython interpreter |
| 13:42 | <roidal_> | :P |
| 13:43 | <andythenorth> | for seeing how nmlc performs with different pythons |
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| 13:43 | <roidal_> | nmlc? |
| 13:43 | <andythenorth> | nml compiler |
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| 13:46 | <roidal_> | A compiler from NML code to NFO and/or GRF files. – GRF is the file-format for TTD content? |
| 13:46 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 13:46 | <roidal_> | to be honest i never digged into the technical details about it |
| 13:46 | <roidal_> | does it contaim some sort of program-code? |
| 13:47 | <roidal_> | (bytecode?) |
| 13:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | sort of |
| 13:47 | <andythenorth> | it contains a higher level language, borderline pseudo code |
| 13:47 | <roidal_> | interesting |
| 13:47 | <andythenorth> | I don’t know the exact term, it’s somewhere between markup and a language |
| 13:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | GRF is the bytecode, NFO is the assembler code and NML is the high level language |
| 13:48 | <roidal_> | nice |
| 13:48 | <roidal_> | and what exactly is handled by that bytecode? |
| 13:48 | <roidal_> | and does the grf-files contain content (graphics, ...) too? |
| 13:49 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 13:49 | <andythenorth> | there’s branching logic, and graphics |
| 13:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | roidal_: the bytecode is a not-turing-complete language that basically can read a variable and then branch off into different cases. this can handle simple things like deciding which graphics to display for a vehicle, or more complex things like storing cargo and producing at different speeds and ratios for industries |
| 13:51 | <andythenorth> | what Eddi|zuHause said |
| 13:51 | <frosch123> | roidal_: grf contain decision trees to pick graphics and properties of stuff depending other stuff |
| 13:53 | <roidal_> | ah |
| 13:53 | <roidal_> | frosch123: and where are this graphics stored? |
| 13:53 | <roidal_> | and the NML-compiler is written in python? |
| 13:53 | <roidal_> | (python 3) |
| 13:54 | <frosch123> | grf is just a single file |
| 13:54 | <frosch123> | it contains everything |
| 13:55 | <roidal_> | ok |
| 13:56 | <Mazur> | Life, the Universe, and Everything. |
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| 14:01 | <Milek7> | frosch123: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6416 |
| 14:01 | <Milek7> | can you reply to my last comment? |
| 14:03 | <frosch123> | what should i reply? |
| 14:04 | <frosch123> | settings should be consistent and not conflict or contradict each other |
| 14:04 | <frosch123> | i do not know any details about changes to the rating either |
| 14:06 | <roidal_> | hm, was GRF, NFO and NML developed by the openttd team, or undertaken from TTD? |
| 14:06 | <frosch123> | roidal_: i see at least 4 parties involved |
| 14:07 | <frosch123> | which overlap in various parts |
| 14:07 | <frosch123> | ttd has grf version 1, which only has graphics |
| 14:07 | <Milek7> | enabling new option only ignores rating when building |
| 14:07 | <frosch123> | ttdp extended it to contain decision trees |
| 14:08 | <Milek7> | and calculating still works, so this setting not contradict council attitude |
| 14:08 | <frosch123> | ottd extended it to version 2 containing 32bpp graphics and zoom levels |
| 14:08 | <frosch123> | nml was developed independently |
| 14:08 | <frosch123> | today everything that still exists is maintained by ottd devs |
| 14:08 | <Milek7> | but, if it is required i can add new option to council attitude |
| 14:09 | <Milek7> | which completly disables calculation |
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| 14:11 | <roidal_> | ah, i see |
| 14:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | TTDPatch also invented the NFO language |
| 14:12 | <roidal_> | may i ask if there is some high-dpi mode planed? not only for the menus but for the whole game? |
| 14:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | whereas the NML inventors came from the OpenTTD community |
| 14:12 | <frosch123> | roidal_: isn't 4x zoom quite high-dpi? |
| 14:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, NFO and GRF existed before the OpenTTD project was even started |
| 14:13 | <frosch123> | it's too big on a fhd screen, so it should be fine on a qhd one |
| 14:14 | <roidal_> | maybe i should be more specific, i meant graphics with higher resolution (not color but pixels)? |
| 14:14 | <roidal_> | because on 4x zoom its very...you know :D |
| 14:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 4x zoom is pixels, has nothing to do with colours... |
| 14:14 | <frosch123> | roidal_: either you missed something since 2012, or i do not understand you |
| 14:14 | <roidal_> | Eddi|zuHause: the developement-history seems much more complicated as it looks from the first view |
| 14:15 | <frosch123> | roidal_: https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=189120 <- isn't that quite high dpi? |
| 14:15 | <frosch123> | for the most part of it |
| 14:16 | <roidal_> | frosch123: which graphic-files are used for that? |
| 14:16 | <frosch123> | that is from the unfinished/unreleased brix |
| 14:16 | <roidal_> | ah, nice |
| 14:17 | <frosch123> | there is also zbase (controversial), rawr, and some none-landscape things |
| 14:21 | <Milek7> | frosch123: what do you think about adding setting controlling bribe detect propability? |
| 14:22 | <frosch123> | it sounds like something 1 in 100000 users would care about |
| 14:23 | <@Alberth> | nah, much higher, it's a way around the town authorities :p |
| 14:23 | <@Alberth> | unless you only want to increase the probability, Milek7 :) |
| 14:23 | <frosch123> | Alberth: smatz had the idea to make the scenario editor work in multiplayer |
| 14:24 | <frosch123> | it would solve many issues |
| 14:24 | <@Alberth> | oh? |
| 14:24 | <@Alberth> | like what? |
| 14:24 | <@Alberth> | or is there a big need for MP scenario editing? |
| 14:24 | <frosch123> | no authority, rivers, town growth |
| 14:25 | <frosch123> | no industry closing |
| 14:25 | <@Alberth> | no companies |
| 14:25 | <Milek7> | that would be rather popular feature, as many people hate local authorities ;) |
| 14:25 | <frosch123> | so many cheaters? |
| 14:26 | <andythenorth> | unrestricted sandbox? |
| 14:26 | <Milek7> | currently there are many setting that can be considiered as cheating |
| 14:27 | <Milek7> | and nobody see problem in it |
| 14:27 | <@Alberth> | we do |
| 14:27 | <@Alberth> | we'd like to remove them, but users think they are required |
| 14:27 | <Milek7> | like disabling breakdowns |
| 14:27 | <Milek7> | and building on pause |
| 14:28 | <@Alberth> | disabling breakdown was in the original |
| 14:28 | <Milek7> | original developers were permitted to add cheats to settings, but openttd no? |
| 14:29 | <roidal_> | Alberth: on which settings are you thinking? |
| 14:30 | <@Alberth> | none in particular, or rather all |
| 14:30 | <@Alberth> | for every setting, there is a group of users that thinks it's essential :) |
| 14:31 | <frosch123> | roidal_: almost every release moves some settings to a more hidden place |
| 14:31 | <roidal_> | no, i mean, which settings you would like to remove? |
| 14:32 | <roidal_> | frosch123: whats the motivation behind that |
| 14:32 | <frosch123> | because noone, who knows what they do, switches them |
| 14:33 | <frosch123> | only clueless people try them, and then complain about some(the intentional) effect caused by it |
| 14:33 | <frosch123> | who would disable freeform edges? |
| 14:33 | <roidal_> | hm |
| 14:33 | <frosch123> | all that the setting causes is people complaining that they cannot set the map borders |
| 14:33 | <frosch123> | who would set max map height to 255? |
| 14:34 | <Milek7> | me :> |
| 14:34 | <frosch123> | the mapgen only generated to a certain size for a certani mapsizte anyway |
| 14:34 | <frosch123> | and setting the max height higher breaks arctic and tropic climate |
| 14:34 | <frosch123> | because snow and climate fail |
| 14:34 | <Milek7> | assuming that user is stupid is bad idea |
| 14:34 | <roidal_> | especially the map height got raised only some time ago? |
| 14:34 | <Milek7> | especially in open source project |
| 14:35 | <frosch123> | why? it is "open source", not "open user" |
| 14:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Milek7: the idea is to reduce the amount of support needed, which fills the forums with useless threads and binds community time |
| 14:35 | <frosch123> | Milek7: anyway, good luck running the support hotline |
| 14:36 | <frosch123> | Milek7: in a company you hire a 1st level support |
| 14:36 | <frosch123> | Milek7: in open source the developers jump out of the window |
| 14:36 | <roidal_> | lol |
| 14:36 | <frosch123> | Milek7: if you have noticed, there are constantly news about the "bad attitude"/ranting in open source |
| 14:37 | <frosch123> | Milek7: that's because developers are directly confronted by users, and have no 1st level support protecting them |
| 14:37 | <roidal_> | on the other hand sometimes this produces much better results than with L1 support |
| 14:38 | <roidal_> | many times the give you answeres that you know that the L1 support have no real idea of the technical problem |
| 14:39 | <frosch123> | roidal_: the best thing was when we removed to option to change grfs in game :) it transformed "dozen of bug reports" to "dozen of complains on the forums". which was a huge improvement, since the "community" could answer them :p |
| 14:40 | <roidal_> | i see |
| 14:41 | <V453000> | sdf |
| 14:41 | <frosch123> | [20:38] <roidal_> many times the give you answeres that you know that the L1 support have no real idea of the technical problem <- you get good answers to unique questions. you get rants for common questions :) |
| 14:41 | <@Alberth> | hi hi V |
| 14:41 | <V453000> | hi |
| 14:41 | <@Alberth> | 10 days away, and the project is dead :p |
| 14:41 | <V453000> | I actually did stop lately |
| 14:41 | <V453000> | but yeah :D |
| 14:42 | <frosch123> | yup, was a great post :) |
| 14:43 | <argoneus> | tbh the map height should be 512 |
| 14:43 | <frosch123> | yeah, that would add a completely new interpretation to map rotation |
| 14:43 | <V453000> | I think that as long as we have original acceleration and 2way PBS as defaults, any discussion about settings is pointless |
| 14:44 | <frosch123> | ah, true, i forgot about those |
| 14:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'm fairly sure acceleration was already in my settings review oh so many years ago, and it wasn't accepted for some reason |
| 14:48 | <andythenorth> | ugh 1st level support |
| 14:48 | <andythenorth> | that’s a horrible idea :) |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | developers do support, bugs get fixed |
| 14:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: the whole point of 1st level support is to fetch out the cases that are not bugs at all. |
| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | what about the ones where it’s not a bug, but failure demand? |
| 14:56 | <+glx> | there are procedures to follow to detect a real problem :) |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | failure demand goes away faster if developers see it |
| 14:57 | <frosch123> | Milek7: roidal_: btw. it's not only on open source. the youtuber totalbiscuit quit community interaction this week for like the third time. everytime it's like him almost jumping out of a window |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | why spend money on support monkeys who can’t actually solve any problems |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | just to make the customer’s problem get resolved more slowly |
| 14:57 | <frosch123> | it applies to everything where someone is personally invested, and then gets confronted by a crowd with other opinions |
| 14:58 | <frosch123> | [20:57] <andythenorth> why spend money on support monkeys who can’t actually solve any problems <- it's for the cases where the developers cannot solve the problem either |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | seems like double handling |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | dunno |
| 15:00 | <andythenorth> | one case has a revenue cost paying non-value adding stuff perpetually to not actually solve problems |
| 15:00 | <andythenorth> | the other case accepts a lot of waste for some high-value developers, but pays off problems, reducing the total cost of them over time |
| 15:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: there is a reason why "have you tried turning it off and on again?" is a running gag |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | dunno |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | I don’t do the support |
| 15:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: also, not every injury needs a specialist doctor |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | but I’m not exactly armchair theorising either |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | back to pypy3 |
| 15:03 | <+glx> | and a many customers call the support for something totally unrelated |
| 15:03 | <andythenorth> | FIRS compiles faster, but Iron Horse compiles much slower |
| 15:03 | <andythenorth> | and Road Hog won’t compile at all |
| 15:03 | <@Alberth> | :O |
| 15:03 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: try it :) |
| 15:03 | <roidal_> | FIRS, Iron Horse and Road Hog = ? |
| 15:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yeah, like the guy a few days ago here, who asked about a coop server |
| 15:03 | <andythenorth> | python 3.2, 3.4 and 3.5 are all much of a much |
| 15:04 | <andythenorth> | but pypy3 is highly variable compared to 3.x |
| 15:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and it took quite a while to figure out that he's talking about some completely unrelated game |
| 15:04 | <andythenorth> | I think chameleon is substantially slower in pypy3 |
| 15:04 | <@Alberth> | firs, iron horse, and road hog are regularly discussed here :) |
| 15:05 | <andythenorth> | but nmlc I *think* is much faster, at least for some cases |
| 15:05 | <andythenorth> | hard to profile, a lot goes on in the compile |
| 15:05 | <@Alberth> | now the challenge to stay in those cases :p |
| 15:05 | <andythenorth> | with primed cache, FIRS compiles in about 28s with pypy3 |
| 15:05 | <andythenorth> | compared to 50s with py3.x |
| 15:06 | <roidal_> | Alberth: now we know that i don't read regularly here :P |
| 15:06 | <andythenorth> | if I change code, the primed cache times stay around 30s |
| 15:06 | <frosch123> | roidal_: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects <- try that "dictionary" |
| 15:06 | <roidal_> | ty |
| 15:06 | <andythenorth> | if I change a png, it’s equivalent to destroying the cache |
| 15:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: you haven't got your dependencies right then |
| 15:06 | <roidal_> | andythenorth: the nmlc is written in python3? |
| 15:07 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: I don’t feed anything to the nmlc cache, it’s automatic |
| 15:07 | <@Alberth> | roidal_: well, it was python2, and converted to python3 |
| 15:07 | <roidal_> | ah, ty again :D |
| 15:08 | <roidal_> | yes, most python-programms running more than a few seconds should benefit from the jit included in pypy |
| 15:11 | <roidal_> | and |
| 15:11 | <roidal_> | most important |
| 15:11 | <roidal_> | python > perl!!! (flamewar start :D) |
| 15:12 | <frosch123> | not in this channel :p |
| 15:12 | <frosch123> | this is solid python ground |
| 15:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that flamewar is not going to find fruitful ground in here :p |
| 15:12 | <@Alberth> | :) |
| 15:12 | <frosch123> | you only have chances for git vs hg |
| 15:12 | <andythenorth> | http://pastebin.com/raw/ZvLhDCEd |
| 15:13 | <roidal_> | frosch123 | this is solid python ground <- like that |
| 15:13 | <roidal_> | :D |
| 15:14 | <frosch123> | ocassionaly you can find a ruby guy |
| 15:14 | <roidal_> | ok, then |
| 15:14 | <roidal_> | to get a success |
| 15:14 | <roidal_> | git > hg |
| 15:14 | <roidal_> | *start to run* |
| 15:14 | <frosch123> | you better do :p |
| 15:15 | <roidal_> | xD |
| 15:15 | <andythenorth> | git won |
| 15:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | git is terrible for people who don't already know git |
| 15:15 | <Milek7> | git! :D |
| 15:15 | <andythenorth> | http://git.openttd.org |
| 15:15 | <andythenorth> | game over |
| 15:16 | <andythenorth> | so how have I broken road hog / nmlc? |
| 15:16 | <frosch123> | http://hg.openttd.org/ |
| 15:16 | <frosch123> | gmae over |
| 15:16 | <andythenorth> | play again? Y | N |
| 15:16 | <andythenorth> | insert more coins |
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| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | this food processor accepts fruit and nuts |
| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | I should add cocoa beans |
| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | and produce chocolate |
| 15:17 | -!- | oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd |
| 15:17 | * | andythenorth don’t even like fruit + nut |
| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 15:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "student food" |
| 15:18 | <frosch123> | roidal_: sed > vim |
| 15:18 | <Milek7> | so no chances for bribe proability option? |
| 15:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i watched a contest once: "which is better? vim or emacs?"... and *SPOILER* sed won |
| 15:19 | <roidal_> | frosch123: did you mean emacs > vim? |
| 15:19 | <roidal_> | oh |
| 15:19 | <roidal_> | i got it... |
| 15:19 | <roidal_> | ;) |
| 15:20 | <roidal_> | how was that? |
| 15:20 | <frosch123> | roidal_: emacs and perl are weird. i never meet people who use either of them |
| 15:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Milek7: the general consensus is that there are way too many options... |
| 15:20 | <roidal_> | church of emacs |
| 15:20 | <roidal_> | and cult of vi? |
| 15:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the knights who use vi? |
| 15:21 | <roidal_> | Eddi|zuHause: from germany? |
| 15:21 | <frosch123> | roidal_: https://xkcd.com/1306/ <- that's about my only contact with perl |
| 15:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | roidal_: why? |
| 15:22 | <frosch123> | roidal_: eddi is from home |
| 15:22 | <roidal_> | 'zuHause' -> german :> |
| 15:22 | <roidal_> | frosch123: thats nice! :D |
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| 15:23 | <@Alberth> | could start using $ in Java identifiers :p |
| 15:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | roidal_: if you pick a random person from the nick list, you have about 1/3 chance he's german... |
| 15:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or maybe 1/4 |
| 15:24 | <roidal_> | the chance on your nick seems to be greater |
| 15:25 | <roidal_> | :P |
| 15:28 | <roidal_> | don't wanted to interupt the tries to start a flamewar ;) |
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| 15:31 | <Milek7> | Eddi|zuHause: many options is good |
| 15:32 | <Milek7> | anyone can set to that setting which he likes |
| 15:32 | <Wolf01> | uhm, V453000, I just found your spring bridge... in an anime |
| 15:35 | <argoneus> | Wolf01 what anime |
| 15:35 | <Wolf01> | owarimonogatari, ep9 |
| 15:35 | <argoneus> | ew, gatari |
| 15:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Milek7: settings generally divide the population in 3 parts: 1) people who want to enable the setting, 2) people who want to disable the setting, and 3) people who get confused about the overwhelming number of settings they don't understand |
| 15:45 | <Milek7> | bribing detection propability is not any confusing setting |
| 15:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Milek7: and as the size of #1/#3 or #2/#3 approaches zero, the setting becomes useless |
| 15:45 | <Milek7> | more confusing is for example acceleration model |
| 15:46 | <Milek7> | and "original" model is complete nonsense |
| 15:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes. |
| 15:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but that is not an argument FOR your setting |
| 15:47 | <Milek7> | if you don't want new simple setting, why for example you not remove all settings, because they are only confusing new pepole? |
| 15:49 | <andythenorth> | what new setting is wanted? |
| 15:49 | <Milek7> | bribe detection propability |
| 15:50 | <andythenorth> | just patch it to what you want and recompile |
| 15:50 | <andythenorth> | no setting needed |
| 15:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Milek7: because some settings actually do divide the community fairly evenly into #1 and #2 categories |
| 15:51 | <Milek7> | but i want to use it on multiplayer |
| 15:51 | <Milek7> | and desyncing when bribe is detected on client is not good idea :D |
| 15:52 | <Milek7> | it can be only in configuration file |
| 15:52 | <Milek7> | it dosen't must be in gui |
| 15:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Milek7: you're still not having a very strong argument, against a development community that gets increasingly conservative |
| 15:53 | <Milek7> | but. it. is. one. small. setting. |
| 15:54 | <Milek7> | there is a much more completly useless settings |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | Milek7: you just need someone with commit rights to sponsor it for you :) |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | these things never happen by convincing someone who is opposed via argument |
| 15:54 | <roidal_> | maybe offering a donation for that setting? :D |
| 15:54 | <Milek7> | bribe? :> |
| 15:55 | <andythenorth> | roll a dice :P |
| 15:55 | <roidal_> | however you want to call it |
| 15:55 | <roidal_> | :D |
| 15:55 | <andythenorth> | if you get a 6, your setting is allowed |
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| 16:00 | <@Rubidium> | just put it differently, which constants in OpenTTD's code should not be a setting? |
| 16:02 | <frosch123> | you can increase the chance by lining out a convincing concept, which is not just "this setting disabled something which i don't like, and i don't care what happens with other stuff related to that" |
| 16:03 | <Milek7> | what do you mean by " i don't care what happens with other stuff related to that"? |
| 16:04 | -!- | frosch [~frosch@x4d0101b3.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd |
| 16:05 | <Wolf01> | V453000, argoneus, found it: https://p.dreamwidth.org/62e73bd840a2/192876-162301/i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/nokiirat/anime/owari12b.jpg |
| 16:06 | <@Alberth> | ha, great find :) |
| 16:07 | <roidal_> | maybe such settings should be changeable via the console? |
| 16:08 | <roidal_> | so there is no visible option for inexperienced players |
| 16:08 | <roidal_> | but its changeable for those who know what they do? |
| 16:09 | <roidal_> | or maybe a hidden menu like the cheats-menu? |
| 16:09 | <frosch> | roidal_: there exists already a cheat which does essentially the same |
| 16:09 | <frosch> | just that cheats are not allowed in mulitplayer |
| 16:09 | <roidal_> | ah |
| 16:09 | <Milek7> | cheat changing bribe detect propability? |
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| 16:10 | <Milek7> | there is magic bulldozer, but is does many other things than destroying city buildings |
| 16:10 | <Milek7> | and bribing requires cash |
| 16:11 | <frosch> | just plant trees then |
| 16:11 | <Milek7> | and cannot be used to raise rating above excellent |
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| 16:12 | <Milek7> | there is sometimes no free space for trees |
| 16:12 | <frosch> | then remove the trees first |
| 16:13 | <Milek7> | .. |
| 16:13 | <frosch> | he, you wanted a cheat :p |
| 16:14 | <andythenorth> | bah |
| 16:14 | <frosch> | ok, it's no cheat, just an exploit |
| 16:14 | <andythenorth> | town won’t let me build my station |
| 16:14 | <andythenorth> | I have annoyed them :( |
| 16:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i wanted that exploit fixed like 10 years ago... |
| 16:14 | <frosch> | andythenorth: show them their mistake, and grow another town |
| 16:15 | <andythenorth> | I am planting trees |
| 16:15 | <Milek7> | but, in another town there is the same thinking local authority ;) |
| 16:15 | <andythenorth> | first time it’s happened in this game |
| 16:15 | <andythenorth> | usually I just have high ratings |
| 16:15 | <andythenorth> | low ratings are mostly only a problem if you’ve screwed up |
| 16:20 | <andythenorth> | I guess I screwed up :( |
| 16:20 | <frosch> | fund some trees, until it i s enough to build two drive-through road stops |
| 16:20 | <frosch> | then run a bus service |
| 16:21 | <frosch> | done |
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| 16:22 | <andythenorth> | silly old andythenorth |
| 16:22 | <andythenorth> | I didn’t do that |
| 16:22 | <andythenorth> | instead I bulldozed lots of land around the town |
| 16:22 | <andythenorth> | for routes |
| 16:22 | <andythenorth> | but didn’t serve the town |
| 16:22 | * | andythenorth is such a noob |
| 16:25 | <frosch> | oh my, it's even easier than i remembered |
| 16:25 | <frosch> | just build 20 road stops in a row, and send two buses in a circle |
| 16:25 | <frosch> | you should get to outstanding in less than a year |
| 16:26 | <andythenorth> | ha ha |
| 16:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yeah, i generally build a bus or tram network in a town before doing anything else |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | after a while |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | Busy Bee should prospect some industries |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: ^ |
| 16:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and that's why my suggestion to fix the tree explioit is simply: forbid destroying trees if the rating is <fairly high> |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | eh? |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | how would I build routes :o |
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| 16:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then you can still get out of the situation by placing bus stops |
| 16:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | like, find an empty tile or just build on the roads |
| 16:28 | <andythenorth> | can’t build train lines? |
| 16:28 | <andythenorth> | I’d definitely want a setting for that :P |
| 16:29 | <@Alberth> | simpler solution would be to reduce impact of adding trees |
| 16:29 | <frosch> | you just need many stations |
| 16:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, it would allow for a new balancing pass where the impact of destroying trees could be lowered |
| 16:29 | <frosch> | you can also build 1x1 train stations :p |
| 16:29 | <frosch> | just the roads get into the way |
| 16:29 | <frosch> | so, yeah, drive-through roadstops are definitely a cheat |
| 16:29 | <frosch> | only added to easily increase town rating |
| 16:29 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: would it still be busy bee? |
| 16:29 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: dunno :) |
| 16:29 | <andythenorth> | builder bee |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | it wouldn’t be very often |
| 16:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, i would add a town rating effect to raising/lowering terrain |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | I’m 30 years in, and increasingly the goals are harder to meet |
| 16:30 | <@Alberth> | why would it do that? |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | I’ve already used a lot of the primaries |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | I could re-route :) |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | that seems weird though |
| 16:31 | <@Alberth> | you could build your own new industries :p |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | I just did |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | ‘problem’ solved |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | most ideas die young :P |
| 16:32 | <@Alberth> | script building industries could be fun, but it needs a bigger twist then, imho |
| 16:32 | <andythenorth> | ‘invalid’ is my favourite kind of development |
| 16:32 | <andythenorth> | ‘no’ is the best feature :P |
| 16:32 | <@Alberth> | tell that to your customers :p |
| 16:35 | <@Alberth> | I wonder if you could steer BB more towards a less random map |
| 16:35 | <@Alberth> | now it just spreads evenly everywhere |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | I think that would be ‘Expand the Frontier Bee’ or something |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | “North to South Bee” |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | I am almost entirely only building routes to goals |
| 16:36 | <@Alberth> | a bit like your farm clusters, but at a bigger scale |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | except for a few supplies |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | and eventually….the network starts to look connected |
| 16:36 | <@Alberth> | eg coal in the north, steel in the center |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | yeah, I would like that as an alternative |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | ‘Region Bee' |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | ‘Scenario Bee’ :P |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | Railroad Tycoon had seed points in the map |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | so it was random, but highly weighted |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | could be done in newgrf, but that’s too prescriptive |
| 16:38 | <@Alberth> | maybe get everything routed to one destination :p |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | SV |
| 16:39 | <@Alberth> | didn't play that for a long time, should try it again |
| 16:41 | <andythenorth> | it’s good |
| 16:41 | <andythenorth> | needs multiple Valleys |
| 16:41 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | PIPE: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1163467#p1163467 |
| 16:44 | <andythenorth> | SV probably awesome with FIRS Arctic Basic, if the cargo is Vehicle Parts |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#arctic_basic |
| 16:45 | <frosch> | assuming all cargo labels use 4 uppercase letters (plus _), we could add four settings to sv to force a cargo :p |
| 16:45 | <_dp_> | I would definitely disable authority in claimed town in cb |
| 16:45 | <frosch> | but well, may become boring if it is not random |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | frosch: that would be…nice |
| 16:46 | <_dp_> | because it confuses new players and annoys old ones) |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | dunno, I usually start a game knowing what I want |
| 16:46 | <frosch> | _dp_: what's the point? it f'ing easy to increase the rating. you could as well disable money |
| 16:47 | <_dp_> | frosch, many players don't know how to do it, they think they screwed up and leave game |
| 16:47 | <_dp_> | and for pros time is very valuable |
| 16:47 | <frosch> | "pros" |
| 16:47 | * | andythenorth is noob |
| 16:47 | <_dp_> | spending it to fight stupid authority is not fun |
| 16:47 | <_dp_> | money is also |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | been playing since 2008, and TTD when a kid |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | still noob |
| 16:48 | <andythenorth> | grrr, Squid Ate FISH is bloody awful |
| 16:48 | <frosch> | a "pro" knows the game deals with the rules |
| 16:48 | <andythenorth> | ships need work |
| 16:48 | * | andythenorth thinks |
| 16:49 | <_dp_> | yeah, but that's not fun |
| 16:49 | <frosch> | well, back to 1st level support |
| 16:49 | <andythenorth> | eh |
| 16:49 | <_dp_> | cb has fine mechanics on its own and doesn't need that authority |
| 16:49 | <frosch> | can we hire them from blizzard? |
| 16:49 | <andythenorth> | you know how [some] newgrf authors obsess about train loading time? |
| 16:49 | <andythenorth> | and make it realistic |
| 16:49 | <frosch> | reaper openings are so boring and annoying to deal with |
| 16:49 | <@Alberth> | gn |
| 16:49 | <frosch> | i would rather spend the time on building drones |
| 16:49 | <andythenorth> | bye Alberth |
| 16:49 | -!- | Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] |
| 16:50 | <andythenorth> | loading times might actually matter for ships |
| 16:50 | <frosch> | andythenorth: the reverse? |
| 16:50 | <andythenorth> | or that too |
| 16:50 | <andythenorth> | dunno |
| 16:50 | <frosch> | infinite many ships can load in parallel, so loading time does not matter at all? |
| 16:50 | <andythenorth> | well yes |
| 16:50 | <andythenorth> | ship model progression is hard |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | speed is ok |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | I’ve tried size, it’s crap |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | so only speed |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | no HP, no TE, running cost is blah |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | and loading speed isn’t shown |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | likelihood of sinking |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | ? |
| 16:51 | <frosch> | size is for visuals, so you do not have to use multipel ships over each other :p |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | size / capacity /s :P |
| 16:52 | <frosch> | capacity and speed is kind of the same |
| 16:52 | <frosch> | but yes, ships are pretty one-dimensional |
| 16:52 | <frosch> | there is only cargo per time |
| 16:52 | <frosch> | because ships move independent from each other |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | so speed is the only useful dimension? |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | and, in a realistic-ish set, steam vs. non-steam |
| 16:53 | <frosch> | assuming you do not care about payment for delivery speed (which is bad for ships anyway), it's just about amount per time |
| 16:53 | <frosch> | which you can get by increasing capacity, speed, or number of ships |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | I just want ships matched to train sizes :P |
| 16:53 | <frosch> | "number of ships" is ugly, if they stack |
| 16:53 | <frosch> | capacity and speed does not seem to make a difference, does it? |
| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | no and yes |
| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | depends how frequently you want to produce at a secondary industry |
| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | and how much it annoys you to have n of the smallest ship, where n is increasingly a large number |
| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | logically, all ships should be 8t and go 30mph |
| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | that is the most logical choice |
| 16:55 | <frosch> | yes, that means your goal is to run 5 (?) ships on every route |
| 16:55 | <andythenorth> | and you build 100 instead of one 800t ship |
| 16:55 | <frosch> | you can achieve that by picking the ship model with matching amount/time |
| 16:55 | <andythenorth> | hmm you have called it close :P |
| 16:55 | <andythenorth> | I usually run 3-4 ships on a route |
| 16:55 | <andythenorth> | 1 loading, 1 travelling to destination, 1 unloading, 1 returning |
| 16:56 | <frosch> | 500 tons/month production, pick a ship that has 100 tons/month transport on the required distance |
| 16:56 | <frosch> | it can be a slow ship with high capacity, or a fast ship with lower capacity. no difference between them |
| 16:57 | <andythenorth> | depends if you’re doing transfers |
| 16:57 | <frosch> | if you want to go "realistic" you pick a rather fixed speed for all ships, and only vary capacity |
| 16:57 | <frosch> | so, i see nothign wrong with your iniital strategy |
| 16:57 | <andythenorth> | if your incoming train fills 75% of a ship vs 100%, you double the route time for the cargo |
| 16:57 | <frosch> | capacity is the only property for ships |
| 16:58 | <_dp_> | btw, what makes authority really annoying in cb is that it kinda snowballs... you need to build trees to get it up but then you need to build roads over those trees making it even worse |
| 16:58 | <frosch> | andythenorth: double? if you have 5 ships you can at most increase it by 20% |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | frosch: conclusion seems right, but boring :) |
| 16:58 | <frosch> | or you have a ship too much |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | I want to keep capacity same for each model at a given size |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | so what to progress? |
| 16:58 | <_dp_> | so once you rating drops below building threshold it's really hard to get it back |
| 16:58 | <frosch> | _dp_: so just build busstops inbetween |
| 16:59 | <frosch> | as said, outstanding in less than a year, with a few busstops and busses |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | Road Hog offers minimal capacity increase, or none, some speed increase, and substantial HP increase |
| 16:59 | <_dp_> | there is certain layout for bus stops, if you make more it screws up everything |
| 17:00 | <_dp_> | also rvs are limited |
| 17:00 | <frosch> | andythenorth: with one property there is no progress |
| 17:00 | <frosch> | andythenorth: you pick the ship to match the amount/time requirement for the route. once you got that, there is no progress |
| 17:01 | <frosch> | andythenorth: the only thing you could do is to restrict large/fast ships to later years, so in early years you can only serve short distances or you have to build a lot of ships |
| 17:02 | <_dp_> | and few months is a lot of time, sometimes it's not even worth continuing game if deliveries were missed for few months |
| 17:02 | <andythenorth> | I somewhat did that |
| 17:02 | <andythenorth> | it’s ok, ish |
| 17:03 | <andythenorth> | I am minded to just accept that ships are boring |
| 17:03 | <andythenorth> | but maybe set loading speed faster on modern ships |
| 17:03 | <andythenorth> | total realisms :P |
| 17:03 | <frosch> | that is likely a valid conclusion :p |
| 17:03 | <andythenorth> | players won’t know about loading speed, but eh |
| 17:03 | <andythenorth> | they don’t know about payment bonus on refrigerated ship either :P |
| 17:03 | <frosch> | something with only "one property" is likely boring, you cannot weight different aspects |
| 17:04 | <andythenorth> | dunno |
| 17:04 | <andythenorth> | the vehicle sets I’m doing are predicated on “there’s one obvious best choice" |
| 17:04 | <frosch> | andythenorth: but ok, "loading" speed actually benefits the "do not stack ships" |
| 17:04 | <frosch> | so, i think it's good |
| 17:04 | <andythenorth> | yeah, I’ll have to just put it in the docs :P |
| 17:04 | <andythenorth> | I think ships should have a safety factor :P |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | perhaps that’s breakdowns |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | which I don’t use |
| 17:05 | <frosch> | they have a 20% rating bonus at stations |
| 17:05 | <frosch> | which you don't use :p |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | I don’t use that silly FIRS station rating cheat any more |
| 17:05 | <frosch> | :o |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | it’s still there, but I never turn it on |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | I wanted it because I was playing NARS 2 ‘realistically |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | 20 or 30 tile freight trains, single-line railroads |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | cross half the map, 5000 or 10000t trains |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | silly |
| 17:06 | <frosch> | you can run NARS with 20 tile tranis? |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | :) |
| 17:06 | <frosch> | i recall pikka trains to be quite underpowered. is NARS an exception, or did you attach 10 engines? |
| 17:07 | <andythenorth> | attach many engines of course :) |
| 17:07 | <andythenorth> | and freight weight 1 |
| 17:07 | <andythenorth> | not the silly high settings |
| 17:07 | <andythenorth> | if RVs would learn to find depots, I’d turn breakdowns back on |
| 17:07 | <andythenorth> | but I got bored of setting explicit orders |
| 17:07 | <andythenorth> | and watching RVs drive round in circles unable to find depots |
| 17:07 | <frosch> | well, i always play in hilly or mountanious, and pikka's train never fit my needs |
| 17:08 | <andythenorth> | you use OGFX? |
| 17:08 | <frosch> | if you have build "too many" serpentines, you do not have enough space for enough tracks |
| 17:08 | <frosch> | as baseset? yes |
| 17:08 | <andythenorth> | I mean the + grfs |
| 17:09 | <frosch> | i think i played ogfx+trains a lot before nuts was around |
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| 17:10 | <andythenorth> | sinking ships |
| 17:10 | <frosch> | it was the only trainset with refitting that was not realism themed :p |
| 17:10 | <andythenorth> | pirates! |
| 17:10 | <andythenorth> | tractive effort! |
| 17:10 | <frosch> | oh, and autorefit |
| 17:10 | <frosch> | i played one toyland game with autorefit |
| 17:10 | <frosch> | because there was candyfloss, toffee and sugar right next to each other |
| 17:11 | <frosch> | it's the only time i could make use of autorefit |
| 17:11 | <frosch> | because nuts did not allow it |
| 17:11 | <frosch> | maybe i should switch back to ogfx+trains :p |
| 17:11 | <frosch> | oh, and i had a ship route for sweets |
| 17:12 | <andythenorth> | ogfx+trains was on coop servers when I played |
| 17:12 | <andythenorth> | I enjoyed the simplicity |
| 17:12 | <frosch> | because it surpassed the cargo amount that makes sense to transport on a mixed cargo train track |
| 17:12 | <andythenorth> | mostly there is one obvious engine choice, and easy wagon choices |
| 17:12 | <andythenorth> | Iron Horse roster probably looks quite similar to ogfx+trains, in capacities, power etc |
| 17:13 | <frosch> | is iron horse company coloured? |
| 17:13 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 17:13 | <frosch> | CC became boring |
| 17:15 | <frosch> | maybe i should just hack my ottd locally to apply random cc to all wagons |
| 17:15 | <frosch> | well, determintic random, not blinking :p |
| 17:15 | <andythenorth> | make a setting :P |
| 17:15 | <andythenorth> | Iron Horse randomises 1CC / 2CC wagons, but that’s all |
| 17:15 | <frosch> | source patches are the more convincing setting :) |
| 17:15 | <andythenorth> | there was idea to add more random colour to wagons, but eh |
| 17:16 | <frosch> | i could also patch iron horse |
| 17:16 | <frosch> | though i recall i wanted to patch firs :p |
| 17:16 | <andythenorth> | it’s pixa recolouring of wagons, so it’s pretty trivial :P |
| 17:16 | <andythenorth> | no drawing needed |
| 17:16 | <andythenorth> | just add more colour maps |
| 17:16 | <frosch> | andythenorth: nah, i would add a recolouring callback, that randomly picks one of the CC or an unrelated colour |
| 17:17 | <frosch> | like: some of the trains are CC, but some are not |
| 17:17 | <andythenorth> | would you tie it to the silly company colours UI? :P |
| 17:17 | <andythenorth> | one day I should fix that silly UI |
| 17:17 | <frosch> | no, that ui insults me |
| 17:18 | <frosch> | it has 4 liveries for pax trains, but 1 for cargo |
| 17:18 | <frosch> | and i never transport pax |
| 17:18 | <andythenorth> | you don’t like selecitng a checkbox before using a UI control? :P |
| 17:18 | <frosch> | except with busses to boost towns |
| 17:18 | <andythenorth> | extend it to all the installed cargos? |
| 17:18 | <andythenorth> | coal: 1cc, 2cc |
| 17:18 | <andythenorth> | fish: 1cc, 2cc |
| 17:18 | <andythenorth> | all with useful checkboxes |
| 17:19 | <frosch> | andythenorth: i believe in the rule "a game should not look like excel" |
| 17:19 | <andythenorth> | I think we need more excel, not less |
| 17:19 | <andythenorth> | and a ribbon |
| 17:20 | <frosch> | ribbons turned out to be quite hotkey friendly |
| 17:20 | <frosch> | that actually impressed me |
| 17:20 | <frosch> | on the surface it looks like for dummies, but you can actually use them efficiently |
| 17:21 | <frosch> | maybe vim should add ribbons |
| 17:21 | <andythenorth> | NewRibbons |
| 17:22 | <frosch> | it's like, dummies use touchscreens, pros use keyboard, noone needs a mouse :p |
| 17:22 | <andythenorth> | we need a ribbon in OpenTTD |
| 17:23 | <frosch> | ottd does not have enough useful functions |
| 17:23 | <frosch> | how many of the buttons in the menu do you actually use? |
| 17:23 | <frosch> | i get away with 10 hotkeys or so |
| 17:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what should i imagine under the term "ribbon"? |
| 17:24 | <frosch> | though i have to select "tram" once per game |
| 17:24 | <frosch> | there is no hotkey to switch roadtype |
| 17:24 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: tabbed toolbar |
| 17:24 | <andythenorth> | I had to look it up tbh |
| 17:24 | <andythenorth> | frosch: no there is not :( |
| 17:24 | <frosch> | Eddi|zuHause: the stuff that replaced the menu starting with office 2003 |
| 17:24 | <andythenorth> | I have shift-A for road, but can’t switch tram / not tram |
| 17:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | frosch: that explanation did not help |
| 17:25 | <frosch> | Eddi|zuHause: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon |
| 17:25 | <andythenorth> | huh, nuts has railtypes included :O |
| 17:25 | <andythenorth> | I thought that was forbidden |
| 17:25 | <frosch> | Eddi|zuHause: it's the answer to "you cannot use pulldown menus with a touchscreen" |
| 17:26 | <_dp_> | pff, I'm out of keys on keybord for hotkeys %) |
| 17:26 | <andythenorth> | more modifiers :P |
| 17:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so, "giant overloaded toolbar" |
| 17:26 | <frosch> | Eddi|zuHause: but the impressive thing is that they also work for hotkeys, better than a pulldown menu |
| 17:26 | <andythenorth> | does the ribbon actually switch context to chosen tool? |
| 17:27 | <frosch> | what? |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | when you use a hotkey |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | does it switch to the appropriate tab |
| 17:28 | <frosch> | there are hotkeys for specific functions |
| 17:28 | <frosch> | and there are hotkeys to navigate the ribbon |
| 17:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i grew up with wordperfect... it had a nice cheatsheet about all the Fx hotkeys |
| 17:29 | * | andythenorth should to bed |
| 17:29 | <frosch> | the former are essentially the same as in classic menus |
| 17:29 | <andythenorth> | frosch: what did you need to patch in FIRS? :P |
| 17:29 | <frosch> | the latter are better, because the last tab remains active |
| 17:29 | <frosch> | andythenorth: parameters for booster cargos, amount required and effect |
| 17:30 | <andythenorth> | oh that :P |
| 17:30 | <andythenorth> | probably not hard, the use of them is all templated |
| 17:31 | <frosch> | yeah, the only problem is that i got the eddi-illness |
| 17:31 | <frosch> | and only ever talk about stuff |
| 17:31 | <frosch> | is it call "eddithis"? |
| 17:32 | <frosch> | "edditis"? |
| 17:32 | <frosch> | yeah, no "h" |
| 17:33 | <andythenorth> | if you leave it, I’ll eventually do it |
| 17:34 | <andythenorth> | can I have a settng to configure breakdowns per vehicle type? |
| 17:34 | <andythenorth> | so I can have useless ships? |
| 17:35 | <andythenorth> | ship breakdowns are silly anyway, averaged over enough time they’re equivalent to speed |
| 17:35 | <andythenorth> | they don’t block networks |
| 17:36 | <frosch> | hehe, only one property :p |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | unreliable ship ~= slow ship |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | and more smoke |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | can do that in newgrf :P |
| 17:37 | <frosch> | same for aircraft |
| 17:37 | <andythenorth> | I only have 2 or 3 generations of ships anyway, dunno why I’m worrying about progression |
| 17:37 | <frosch> | also noone likes aircraft |
| 17:37 | <andythenorth> | I do |
| 17:37 | <andythenorth> | but same as ships |
| 17:37 | <andythenorth> | use AV9: buy Pikka’s equivalent of dakota (DC3) |
| 17:37 | <andythenorth> | use that everywhere |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | aircraft only have two properties: speed, and szie |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | size * |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | due to crashing |
| 17:38 | <frosch> | no |
| 17:38 | <frosch> | they only have "size" |
| 17:38 | <frosch> | speed in air does not matter |
| 17:39 | <andythenorth> | I forgot capacity |
| 17:39 | <frosch> | "size" havitly affects airport throughput |
| 17:39 | <frosch> | well, yes, with "size" i mean "capacity":) |
| 17:39 | <andythenorth> | I was ambigious :P |
| 17:39 | <_dp_> | they only have one bool "is or is not A21" :p |
| 17:39 | <andythenorth> | crashing also heavily affects airport throughput |
| 17:39 | <_dp_> | dunno why other aircrafts exist in game xD |
| 17:39 | <frosch> | as noob i always build the condorde, because it was soo fast, and i thought it woudl transport more |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | AV9: Avix Alfa everywhere |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | except oil rigs |
| 17:40 | <frosch> | then i discovered that the biggest plane is just better |
| 17:40 | <frosch> | and that for some reason late game planes become smaller again |
| 17:40 | <frosch> | which was an anti-progression |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | yeah |
| 17:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i noticed that even as a noob |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | because realism |
| 17:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i never had a plane to replace my 747 with |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | the planes were literally like they’re copied from a boeing catalogue |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | zero gameplay weighting |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | the trains are quite well chosen |
| 17:42 | <frosch> | andythenorth: looks like av9 removed my favorite engine |
| 17:42 | * | andythenorth recommends AV9 strongly |
| 17:42 | <andythenorth> | no zellepin? |
| 17:42 | <andythenorth> | pikka got bored of my zellepin jokes, and punished me for them |
| 17:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | oil-transporting zeppelin |
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| 17:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the most realistic feature ever!! |
| 17:43 | <frosch> | andythenorth: stratocruiser is my favorite |
| 17:43 | <Hiddenfunstuff> | Why not mercury zeppelin? |
| 17:44 | <andythenorth> | so many planes in AV8 |
| 17:44 | <frosch> | but most of them look different |
| 17:44 | <frosch> | which is what matters, doesn't it? |
| 17:45 | <frosch> | well, maybe only the early ones |
| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | ok the stratocruise is nice |
| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | looks matter, but not enough to have 100 planes :P |
| 17:46 | * | andythenorth must to sleep |
| 17:46 | <andythenorth> | bye |
| 17:46 | <frosch> | oh my, more mhl bugs... |
| 17:47 | <frosch> | the height adjustment does not trigger the aircraft inclination |
| 17:47 | <andythenorth> | they just float up, no? |
| 17:47 | <frosch> | when an aircraft takes off, it is first inclined, then turn horizontal, but keeps ascending |
| 17:48 | <frosch> | i should fork ottd 1.4 :p |
| 17:48 | <andythenorth> | climbing without nose pitch |
| 17:48 | <andythenorth> | nice |
| 17:48 | <andythenorth> | fork ottd 0.5 |
| 17:48 | <andythenorth> | that was a classic release |
| 17:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | interesting that that never came up in 5 years of development |
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| 17:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and it's not like the height hysteresis never was under discussion |
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| 18:43 | <realdeal> | hello |
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| 18:53 | <Supercheese> | goodbye |
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| 22:48 | <Pikkaphone> | yes but |
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| 23:12 | <Mazur> | Whose butt? |
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| --- | Log | closed Sat Jan 30 00:00:27 2016 |
