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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-01-30

---Logopened Sat Jan 30 00:00:27 2016
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00:47<Clockworker_>all of them
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02:25<andythenorth>o/
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02:34<supermop>yo andy
02:34<supermop>\
02:59<V453000>o/ hoomanz
03:00<andythenorth>also V453000
03:01<V453000>hy
03:01<andythenorth>is it done yet?
03:01<V453000>no starting a new project
03:02<andythenorth>brix -> pause
03:02<V453000>just for a little while :)
03:03<andythenorth>there is a correct number of projects to have
03:03<andythenorth>and it’s > 1
03:03<V453000>just 3 people care about it on the forums anyway
03:03<andythenorth>nobody cares about my sets :(
03:03<andythenorth>only me
03:03<V453000>The Community does not demand it
03:03<andythenorth>The Community is never wrong
03:03<V453000>nah I just got kind of stuck when making new maglev ... and I have some groundbreakingly superb ideas for a train set
03:03<V453000>you will ove it
03:03<V453000>love
03:04<V453000>I also almost have the maglev actually done, so might as well finish that
03:05<andythenorth>stop talking, start making my train set
03:05<andythenorth>I wish you’d render me some slighty-realisms ships also
03:05<andythenorth>and slightly-chibi
03:05<andythenorth>with the right length for broken stupid TTD lengths
03:05<andythenorth>then I could paint them with pixels
03:06<V453000>this train stuff will be 4/8 super chibi
03:06<andythenorth>yay
03:06<V453000>I dare say it will be so awesome, it will make andythenorth play the game
03:07<andythenorth>I am playing the game :P
03:07<V453000>oh my :D
03:07<V453000>current state of maglev
03:07<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_maglev-wip.png
03:08<V453000>only need to rework the ground of the tracks
03:08<V453000>the middle rail should be done
03:08<V453000>idea in junctions is that the white "track duct" will be visible from the beginning, and the blue part is the overlay ... that way, you just turn the tracks on - so they light up, you don't build new ones
03:09<V453000>is meant to be a very electric track :) also, maglev trains can now hug the rail
03:09<V453000>like those https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aIwbrZ4knpg/maxresdefault.jpg
03:09<andythenorth>yair that looks better idea than original maglev
03:10<V453000>yeah, concrete slabs are boring as fuck
03:10<V453000>also look HORRIBLE in junctions
03:10<andythenorth>yes
03:10<andythenorth>most horribilest thing ever
03:10<V453000>while junctions are the biggest advantage of this
03:10<andythenorth>what will you do for PBS overlay?
03:11<andythenorth>more electricity?
03:11<V453000>yeah that is an issue, it will make the electrical part get grey
03:11<V453000>but can't do much with that, players can disable the reserved tracks at most
03:11<andythenorth>ask for a patch
03:11<andythenorth> brighter overlays
03:11<andythenorth>not darker
03:11<V453000>hm, that would be awesome yes
03:11<andythenorth>seems obvious idea
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03:12<V453000>I did realize that but didn't conclude it with asking for a patch :P
03:12<V453000>will ask frog
03:14<V453000>back to modelling the best train set ever :P
03:14<V453000>bai
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03:52<andythenorth>bbl
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04:15<@Terkhen>Hello
04:15<@Alberth>hello
04:17<V453000>yo
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04:40<Wolf01>o/
04:51<@Alberth>moin
05:05<Wolf01>I found another weird trains video :o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Et2vlBsz4
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05:06<Wolf01>o/
05:06<andythenorth>o/
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05:07<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so I’m removing most of the gaps from most FIRS industries
05:07<andythenorth>still bothering you?
05:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm usually not bothered by things while they are not in my field of view :p
05:08<andythenorth>still worth me removing them?
05:08*andythenorth doing it anyway
05:08<andythenorth>did I mention that FIRS compiles *really* fast with pypy3? :P
05:09<Wolf01>I liked industries with gaps :(
05:10<Wolf01>put a flag to enable it
05:12<andythenorth>nah
05:12<andythenorth>Wolf01: any particular ones you like?
05:12<andythenorth>I am leaving some, for....reasons
05:13<Wolf01>let me check
05:18<Wolf01>the farms, the rubber plantantion
05:18<Wolf01>the copper ore mines are boring and you can remove the gap
05:18<V453000>stuckyard
05:18<andythenorth>yeah the farms I am leaving
05:19<andythenorth>otherwise they block landscape
05:19<andythenorth>and the town industries I am leaving
05:21<andythenorth>dairy has to lose the gap
05:23<@Alberth>less unique identification at the mini map :)
05:25<andythenorth>I always use that flashing thing frosch added :)
05:25<@Alberth>that works too :)
05:26<V453000>flashing thing?
05:26<V453000>ah that
05:26<V453000>yeah is great
05:29<Wolf01>V did you see I found your bridge on an anime? :D
05:30<V453000>?
05:30<V453000>wtf?
05:31<Wolf01>https://p.dreamwidth.org/62e73bd840a2/192876-162301/i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/nokiirat/anime/owari12b.jpg
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
05:31<V453000>nice
05:32<V453000>but yeah it is strongly inspired with some bridge in brazil or where
05:33<andythenorth>V453000: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=calatrava+bridges
05:33<V453000>k not so far . Arganzuela Footbridge (2010) – Madrid, Spain
05:35<@Alberth>warm country, close enough :)
05:37<Wolf01>calatrava bridges look nice, too bad they are good only in a virtual reality... too much maintenance and problems
05:37<Wolf01>he should do game graphics instead of real things
05:37<@Alberth>nah, VR is obviously still lacking some realism :p
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05:51<V453000>going in the right direction I belive https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_maglev-wip2.png from https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_maglev-wip.png
05:53<Eddi|zuHause>at least it's not as terrible as the default/opengfx maglev
05:54<andythenorth>I like the weird corrugations
05:54<andythenorth>I’m not sure they’re good
05:54<andythenorth>but I like them
05:54<V453000>I think if I add some more details to them, they will be fine
05:54<V453000>in corners they look weird but almost anything does
05:55<andythenorth>it’s where they join the terrain in \ / that looks weird
05:55<V453000>more details/noise to distort the perfect shapes helps a ton there
05:55<andythenorth>like they’re floating
05:55<V453000>mhm
05:55<Wolf01>yes, it looks really better the new one, the one with the parallel steps was too weird in NS and WE directions
05:55<andythenorth>finish them in a straight edge?
05:55<V453000>yeah tha should probably finish with straight edge indeed
05:56<andythenorth>can roads cross maglev?
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes
06:00<andythenorth>hmm
06:00<andythenorth>FIRS forests
06:00<andythenorth>forests are unsatisfactory
06:00<@Alberth>?
06:01<andythenorth>they should really have fields, like farms
06:01<andythenorth>or something
06:01<andythenorth>or be spread over a wider area
06:02<andythenorth>I considered the lumber mill option, but planting trees manually is very boring
06:03<andythenorth>someone made a grf that spreads forests out much wider, with tracks to cutting areas?
06:05<@Alberth>the pax fork of firs by mczapkie?
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so unless you're going to implement NewGRF fields in the near future, don't worry about it.
06:07<@Alberth>yeah, forests provide sufficient challenge at their size :)
06:08<andythenorth>possibly I need to animate them cutting wood
06:08<andythenorth>that might help
06:09<@Alberth>animation is always nice :)
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what the problem is. the original growth animation seems fine to me
06:15<andythenorth>it’s not re-implemented in FIRS
06:16<@Alberth>mostly, it looks fine rather than being fine :p
06:17<@Alberth>it abuses construction stages :p
06:18<andythenorth>it does? o_O
06:18<andythenorth>how interesting
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06:19*andythenorth leaves the gap in junk yard
06:19<andythenorth>some annoyances are by design
06:23<@Alberth>:)
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>i have nothing against gaps, but they were kinda getting out of hand
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>also, when you have gaps, you need more variations in layout
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>i mean like 10 or more
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>not just 3
06:32<andythenorth>agreed
06:32<andythenorth>I have eliminated most of them now
06:32<andythenorth>except for farm-type industries
06:33<andythenorth>for which newgrf fields would be a better solution :P
06:33<andythenorth>but eh, some things will never be done :)
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07:16<andythenorth>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35445419 :(
07:19<Wolf01>:o
07:22<andythenorth>hmm
07:22<andythenorth>do rivers know their spring point?
07:23*andythenorth wonders about enforcing that there must be always at least one edge between spring node and some endpoint
07:23<andythenorth>so that rivers could be re-routed, but not cut
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07:28<V453000>btw does a base set HAVE to supply x2 sprites?
07:28<andythenorth>bah, translators need to get busy
07:28<andythenorth>FIRS compile is full of yellow “translation outdated” warnings
07:28<andythenorth>no use to me :P
07:29<@Alberth>add a suppression flag?
07:30<andythenorth>I could use —quiet
07:30<andythenorth>but some of the warnings are useful
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>--no-translation
07:30<andythenorth>sounds like lang files would be ignored?
07:30<andythenorth>—quiet-lang
07:30<andythenorth>?
07:30<@Alberth>something like that
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>-wno-translation
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07:31<Wolf01>argoneus, do you know if monsters in diablo 3 have specific resistances?
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>also, something like this would go in your makefile.local
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07:31<V453000>andythenorth: straight edges help shitloads https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_maglev-wip3.png
07:32<andythenorth>rather than Makefile?
07:32<andythenorth>ok a local option
07:32<andythenorth>I see why
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07:32<andythenorth>V453000: that’s pretty winning
07:32<andythenorth>I’d say done
07:32<argoneus>Wolf01: yeah
07:32<andythenorth>it’s interesting that you have a greige landscape
07:32<V453000>yeah, this is done
07:32<argoneus>they have different elemental resistances
07:33<V453000>now I just need to get the junctions/slopes/stuff done
07:33<V453000>but getting it to look like this was the hardest part
07:33<V453000>junctions will be easy
07:33<V453000>grey landscape is pretty nice tbh
07:33<V453000>you immediately see where stuff is
07:33<andythenorth>I used greige in UI design
07:33<V453000>very good for orientation
07:33<Wolf01>the wiki doesn't say anything, and I found that I do more damage to ice resistant (I suppose) monsters with ice
07:33<andythenorth>white is too stark
07:33<@Alberth>amazing, such a simple change having such an impact
07:33<andythenorth>grey is boring
07:34<andythenorth>greige = warm grey, strictly it’s the name for the colour of raw silk
07:34<andythenorth>or linen
07:34<V453000>:)
07:34<V453000>ooh I also need to make tunnels, road crossings, and place the tracks onto bridges :P
07:35<V453000>not so done :D
07:35<V453000>let's get to it
07:35<andythenorth>https://www.flickr.com/photos/8230585@N06/3399855935
07:35<andythenorth>http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0230/9645/t/21/assets/slide_1.jpg?1509752525893154252
07:35<andythenorth>http://cdn.decoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/greige-bedroom.jpg
07:35<andythenorth>http://thefrugalhomemaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Entryway-before-after-with-new-Behr-paint.jpg
07:35<andythenorth>http://oskarhuber.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/greige-4.jpg
07:36<andythenorth>V453000: ^ maybe it’s a bit too tasteful :)
07:36<andythenorth>is V453000 tasteful? :P
07:36<V453000>gg
07:36<V453000>time to maglev it up
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11:19<andythenorth>o/
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11:22<frosch123>oh, right...
11:22<frosch123>i remembered why i did not yet patch firs
11:23<frosch123>because it is not written in nml
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11:25<andythenorth>frosch123: it is written in a beautiful car-crash of macro languages
11:25<andythenorth>what’s not to like?
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11:34<V453000>frosch123: is it possible to get a patch which would allow defining custom reserved-track overlay sprites? aka not just greyed out overlay, but something colourful
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11:35<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: like introduce an action5?
11:35<frosch123>in theory yes, but is it any good?
11:35<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: we have railtypes?
11:35<V453000>I have no clue what does action5 mean Eddi
11:35<frosch123>V453000: not relevant since 2010
11:35<V453000>frosch123: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_maglev-wip3.png
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: action5 is the standard method to extend the base set
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11:36<Eddi|zuHause>unless it's actionA, i always mix those up...
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i don't really know how new railtypes work
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11:37<V453000>anyway, I think custom overlay sprites would make a lot of sense for anything really
11:37<V453000>gray is quite ugly
11:38<V453000>and anything like maglev powered tracks with visual feedback when the electricity turns on at the segments where trains is, would be pretty awesome
11:38<frosch123>anyway, if it would be done, it would be: new item in the graphics section (for example "path_overlay"), if defined it is drawn directly on top of everything; if not defined the normal track_overlay is drawn in greyscale
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>but, do you want to have options for a different recolour, or only for a completely different sprite?
11:38<V453000>yeah exactly frosch123 , that would work perfectly
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: would that need a callback flag?
11:38<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: recolour is pretty useless for 32bpp :p
11:38<V453000>different sprite Eddi
11:39<V453000>yeah, that too
11:39<Mazur>Weirdest thing: got a new PC, hook up a keyboard, a wireless mouse, and a screen, power on, nothing happens.
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>i imagine callbacks for railtype are rather time critical
11:39<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i believe the other optional parts have no flag either
11:39<frosch123>no, they are not time critical, they only run for visible stuff
11:40<frosch123>and only once per tile redrawn
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>then why were people so resistant to variables for railtypes?
11:40<Mazur>Could it be because I should hook up hte screen to the other GPU? Neither is onboard.
11:40*Mazur is for onc utterly baffled.
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>Mazur: using wrong output connector would explain black screen...
11:41<Mazur>HDMI<_>HDMI.
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11:41<Eddi|zuHause>Mazur: some BIOS have a detection routine to check which output is connected
11:41<Taede>forgetting to switch on the switch at the back of the power supply helps too
11:42<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that depends on the variable :) i was against "nearest town" unless it is cached, i am not against nearby tile info
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>Mazur: do fans or hard disks spin up? does it beep?
11:42<Mazur>Taede: second thing I checked, after the power cablee connetion.
11:42<Mazur>Neither, Eddi.
11:42<Mazur>So had to be power thing, RIGHT?
11:43<Mazur>has*
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>have you checked whether PSU is switched to 110V or 230V?
11:43<Mazur>No, biut hte shop has.
11:43<Mazur>THey've had it running.
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>Mazur: yes, that would point to a power problem
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11:44<Mazur>Well, under desk cables are a mess, not even sure what connects what, so I should just clean them out and reuse one by one.
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>once upon a time mainboards had a "lock" that had to be bridged by a jumper
11:44<Mazur>Can't be it, shop has had it running.
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>well, it could also be hooked up to an actual lock
11:45<Mazur>They even played Warcraft for a bit to test.
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>but yes, i'd double check the power cable
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11:47<Mazur>Thanks for the amoral support. As I'm getting older I get less assured of my knowledge.
11:49<frosch123>andythenorth: extractive, organic and ports have different boost requirements... should i add separate parameters for the three types?
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12:05<V453000>yay, logo guy never to be seen on tt-forums again
12:05<V453000>shame he was working on 32bpp too
12:06<frosch123>we continued a bit via pm :)
12:07<frosch123>just like you and andy usually discuss stuff here
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>did i miss some drama?
12:09<frosch123>it's just the usual 1st level support thing
12:10<V453000>yeah I am exchanging PMs with him all the time
12:12<V453000>honestly, if I didn't have as much fun and mainly work-useful experience from making NewGRFs, I would stop this instance.
12:12<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: recolour is pretty useless for 32bpp :p <-- so are we just going to call recolouring a deprecated feature and all future newgrf stuff will just ignore it exists?
12:14<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: even considering 8bpp, recolouring is pretty useless when only using *one* recolouring
12:14<frosch123>it makes sense for cc with 16 recolouring variants
12:14<frosch123>but for reserved/not reserved it is useless in any case
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12:16<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: anyway, the proposed railtype callback will not help if you're making a base set
12:16<frosch123>that is true
12:17<frosch123>so, yes, in brix context there is no solution
12:17<frosch123>add adding a separate solution just for basesets is definitely not worth it
12:19<frosch123>we should rather look into options to make railtypes via action 3 baseset useable
12:20<frosch123>(i.e. no property changes, only graphics, and automatically disabled when other grfs define railtypes)
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>i can't imagine how that would work
12:20<V453000>forum cripple fight, round 1 go XD
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>how do you distinguish "good" and "bad" action3 when scanning for static newgrfs?
12:21<frosch123>the scanning is not exact anyway
12:21<frosch123>it would rather be, do not call this callback for static grfs
12:22<V453000>frosch123: ignore my request, I am going to get myself banned from the forums and top developing stuff anyway within the next hour most likely :D :P
12:22<V453000>but for Other Authors, it would be nice to have it :P
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12:23<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: so then static newgrfs could contain anything, but the semantics has more safeguards?
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12:26<frosch123>[18:25] <DorpsGek> You've given me 12 commands within the last minute; I'm now ignoring you for 5 minutes. <- fu, now i have find another calculator
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>i never had that...
12:26*frosch123 starts python
12:26<andythenorth>start the faster one
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>echo blah | bc
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>or wolfram alpha
12:27<andythenorth>frosch123: internally there are parameters for the different classes of industry; externally, I think it’s just one parameter
12:27<frosch123>what's the "power" operator in python?
12:27<frosch123>** or ^ or something else?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>pow()?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think there's a operator
12:28<frosch123>** forks
12:28<andythenorth>anybody who needs to have separate control over farms, mines, ports supply boost can (1) accept their need is not met (2) patch
12:28<frosch123>** works
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>interesting
12:28*andythenorth was afk
12:28<frosch123>^ seems to be xor
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>^ is usually XOR
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>i used to be in a channel which had a matlab bot
12:29<@Alberth>** seems to work
12:30<andythenorth>Mazur: have you turned it on and off again?
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12:35<V453000>3/6 junctions done :> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_maglev-wip4.png
12:37<@Alberth>hmm, expected 50% greyed out junctions, but it was very different :)
12:38<@Alberth>or turned it off and on again?
12:38<V453000>well yeah gray is an option
12:38<V453000>but the blue is so dark that it should be just fine
12:38<@Alberth>tracks look splendid with the circuits
12:39<@Alberth>makes no sense wrt realism, but it adds a lot
12:39<@Alberth>makes the track much more fun to look at
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: imho the not-placed tracks should have no circuits
12:40<V453000>that is an option as well, yes Eddi
12:41<V453000>though I prefer them to be barely visible for now
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>it should be easily visible at a glance where tracks are and where not. the default maglev are terrible at that
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12:42<andythenorth>V453000: keep the circuit etch shape, just knock it to grey
12:42<andythenorth>otherwise you’ll have no texture
12:42<V453000>well this is very visible Eddi, isn't it
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>the vertical tracks have an offset problem
12:42<V453000>yes andy
12:42<andythenorth>V453000: otherwise it’s done, done done
12:42<V453000>I don't see any
12:43<V453000>andythenorth: making one junction takes almost an hour, saying done is .. :P
12:43<V453000>+ tunnels bridges crossings, ...
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>the gap to the left barrier switches between 1px and 2px
12:43<andythenorth>well it’s conceptually done done done
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>makes the line look wobbly
12:43<V453000>that is possible Eddi, yes
12:43<andythenorth>finally, somebody solved maglev
12:43<andythenorth>can you do an 8bpp classic TTD version of this? :P
12:43<andythenorth>I want maglev in Iron Horse, but default track is so…
12:44<andythenorth>[no need to say the words]
12:44<V453000>can, would be hard, will, not worth the effort
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: yes, it's visible that there are no tracks, if you concentrate on it. but if you glance at the whole screen, and don't have it in focus, it could be easier if there were no barriers and no circuits
12:46<V453000>barriers have to be there, that is the whole reason why the junctions are working
12:46<V453000>because the overlays are not 3D
12:46<V453000>well they are, but planar ... is what I mean
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i think no-barriers need a "whole crossing" overlay
12:46<V453000>yes which is a feature I don't currently have :P
12:47<V453000>hence this solution
12:47-!-founder_ is now known as openbu
12:47<V453000>and bright blue looks clear enough to me to demonstrate where tracks are
12:47<V453000>far better than original/ogfx/zbase maglev for sure
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>yes. certainly
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>i'm just saying it's not optimal in my eyes
12:48<V453000>I might try to toy with the colour of the wires but that is all
12:48<Mazur>andythenorth: several times.
12:48<andythenorth>swapped leads, checked fuses?
12:49<V453000>not exactly :P
12:49<V453000>I was also thinking green/red
12:49<V453000>but 2nd colour is rather disturbing and green does not look so electric
12:49<andythenorth>don’t mix colours
12:49<V453000>exactly
12:49<andythenorth>I thought of red, but I made it in my head, looked bad
12:50<Mazur>Just now i unearthed ghte lead from behind my desk, pokugging it in along hte front, and the speakers bopped.
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12:50<Mazur>However, no life.
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12:51<Mazur>Other stuff plugged in works, so no fuse problem.
12:52<andythenorth>PSU have any trip or reset or fuse?
12:52*andythenorth hasn’t touched this stuff for 10 years or more
12:52<andythenorth>guessing
12:56<Mazur>Trouble is, front panel only has a single touch button, so no idea as to whether anything is happening there or not.
12:56<Mazur>But it shouldbe lighted in case of power, I'm guessing.
12:57<Mazur>Even with system down/
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you just missed some secondary switch
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>pr some cable got loose on the inside
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>have you tried reaching the shop?
13:14<Mazur>No, mhy dahy is out of step, so when I got to this point, they were already closed.
13:14<Mazur>day*
13:14<Mazur>Never mind,I'll find it.
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13:46<frosch123>it compiled :o
13:47<andythenorth>yay
13:47<andythenorth>what was it?
13:47<V453000>only the most complex junction remains \o/
13:47<andythenorth>and I have knocked off some of the boring housekeeping jobs for FIRS 2 :P
13:47<andythenorth>everyone’s a winner eh?
13:48<argoneus>what are you compiling frosch123
13:48<frosch123>firs
13:48<V453000>winwinwin
13:48<andythenorth>how long did it take? o_O
13:48<frosch123>less long than writing the code :p
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>one would hope that :p
13:49<V453000>XD
13:49<frosch123>55s with disabled mp
13:49<frosch123>but the parameter gui does not work as expected
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13:50<frosch123>oh, i just did not know my own specification
13:50<frosch123>so, nothing unusual :)
13:52<andythenorth>try it with pypy3 :P
13:54<andythenorth>kind of requires faffing with a virtualenv
13:54<andythenorth>for sanity’s sake
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>that seems way too complicated
13:56<andythenorth>well it does require typing
13:56<andythenorth>so probably yes :D
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14:08<frosch123>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/FIRSparameters.png
14:08<frosch123>now i would actually have to play a test game...
14:09<V453000>neat shit!
14:09<V453000>that is seriously great
14:13<frosch123>bbl
14:14<@Alberth>200% for 315 crates, haha major havoc :)
14:14<andythenorth>Yair
14:15<andythenorth>also I was _thinking_ about making the secondary production window a parameter
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14:15<andythenorth>I set it to 90 days for v2, it was 30 days in v1
14:15<andythenorth>it’s a global constant, so quite trivial to parameterise
14:15<andythenorth>but I don’t like too many parameters :)
14:16-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
14:17<V453000>parameters are good for something so wtf complex like FIRS
14:17<V453000>it is basically 6 newgrfs in one
14:18<V453000>especially if defaults just work
14:18<V453000>and the parameters are just extra stuff to fiddle with
14:20*andythenorth wonders if anyone ever sees them anyway
14:20<andythenorth>I don’t think I’d know about them if I didn’t make newgrfs
14:20<andythenorth>‘parameters’ sounds dangerous
14:20<V453000>well you are a special case
14:22<andythenorth>frosch123: have you found the industry extra text strings?
14:22<andythenorth>oh yeah, they’re in the screenshot
14:22<andythenorth>nvm
14:24<@Alberth>you write about them in the documentation?
14:24<@Alberth>(parameters)
14:26<andythenorth>not yet
14:26<andythenorth>this is the most I say file:///Users/andy/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build/docs/html/get_started.html#setting-up
14:26<andythenorth>oops, not the internet :)
14:27<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html#setting-up
14:27*andythenorth adjusts
14:34<@Alberth>room for expansion there :)
14:50<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html#setting-up
14:51<andythenorth>I’ve rearranged it to make room
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15:08<frosch123>andythenorth: the "3 months" is not easy to change at all
15:08<andythenorth>for secondaries?
15:08<frosch123>you have 3 registers which store the production from past 3 months
15:08<andythenorth>it’s a single global constant iirc
15:08*andythenorth checks
15:08<andythenorth>PRODUCTION_SPAN
15:08<andythenorth>unless I only *thought* that worked :)
15:08<andythenorth>possible
15:09<frosch123>secondary? i was on the primary page
15:09<andythenorth>yes :)
15:09<andythenorth>I have my own mini-project
15:10<andythenorth>I am wondering how many parameters is too many :P
15:10<frosch123>ah, for delivering multiple cargos
15:10<andythenorth>yup
15:10<frosch123>i think 3 months is fine there
15:10<frosch123>does not need a parameter
15:10<andythenorth>works for me
15:10*andythenorth will delete the ‘todo'
15:10<andythenorth>much better
15:10<frosch123>anyway, which economy/climate should i play?
15:11<frosch123>when i am playing a test game, i can also test stuff :p
15:11<V453000>frosch123: [20:49] <@Mark> now just need a parameter to increase farm initial production
15:11<V453000>is a good point actually
15:11<andythenorth>will you play with SV, or something else, or no GS?
15:11<frosch123>no gs
15:11<andythenorth>I like the basic economies
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15:12<andythenorth>I would play Arctic Basic with Iron Horse or OGFX +
15:12<andythenorth>although it misses correct sprites for 2.5 industries
15:12<frosch123>i want to play iron horse
15:13<frosch123>but i don't like the chemicals in arctic :p
15:13<andythenorth>Temperate Basic is most appropriate for Iron Horse :)
15:13<frosch123>is hot country any good?
15:13<andythenorth>I played IAHC, and really like it
15:13<andythenorth>it’s better balanced ‘big’ economy than full FIRS
15:13<andythenorth>due to experience gained
15:13<frosch123>ok, so IAHC and horse
15:13<andythenorth>but I need Busy Bee or I lose interest :)
15:14<andythenorth>if you get nightly Iron Horse, you get more cargo support, FYI
15:14<frosch123>which climate?
15:14<frosch123>are there meaningful town supplies? or would i even bother delivering towns?
15:14<andythenorth>there is food and so on
15:14<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/
15:14*andythenorth checks town growth cargos
15:15<andythenorth>goods and food for desert towns
15:15<andythenorth>it’s intended for tropic
15:15<frosch123>V453000: why specifically farms?
15:16<frosch123>or is this just cluster hatred?
15:16<andythenorth>but then you might have terragenisis rage :P
15:16<V453000>farms have very low starting production don't they
15:16<andythenorth>not in FIRS v2
15:16<V453000>tbh I haven't player FIRS ina while personally
15:16<V453000>ok
15:16<V453000> :)
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15:16<andythenorth>FIRS v2 unwinds some of the silliest mistakes
15:16<V453000>:)
15:16<andythenorth>frosch123: you don’t use RVs, right?
15:18<frosch123>i use heqs trams for feeders
15:19*andythenorth waves at Road Hog
15:19<andythenorth>but eh, I know RVs aren’t for everyone :P
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15:27<frosch123>ah, lucky :) i was worried i had to pick a roster
15:27<andythenorth>there’s only one that works right now
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15:28<andythenorth>parameters are a PITA though :)
15:28<frosch123>good start date for iron horse?
15:29<andythenorth>any time from 1860
15:29<andythenorth>trains are relatively fast in the Brit roster
15:29<frosch123>1900?
15:29<andythenorth>good
15:29<andythenorth>you might want Termite, up to you
15:29<andythenorth>gains you metro and narrow gauge
15:29<frosch123>hmm, what was that again ...
15:29<frosch123>oh, tracks
15:29<andythenorth>metro is only useful for pax
15:30<andythenorth>not essential
15:30<frosch123>but, no, i don't like track sets
15:30<frosch123>too complicated for me
15:30<frosch123>i want a single mixed cargo train network
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15:32<andythenorth>I could give away what does what in Iron Horse, but I am intrigued
15:33<andythenorth>it’s simple enough, but has 1 layer or so of extra depth that you can use or ignore
15:33<andythenorth>I’ll see what you conclude :P
15:34<frosch123>still batteling the mapgen :p
15:34<andythenorth>it’s hateful in tropic
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15:54<frosch123>oh, factorio hotkeys to not work in ottd
15:54<frosch123>it's ESC, not Q
15:55<frosch123>no idea what a combine car is
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>i'd call it "Mähdrescher"
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>(unless it's something completely different)
15:57<andythenorth>it’s mail+pax car
15:58<andythenorth>US terminology, completely wrong for en-gb
15:58<andythenorth>but eh :P
15:58<V453000>XD
15:58<andythenorth>probably some twee term like ‘passenger brake’ in UK
15:58<V453000>frosch123 facroiorized
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16:00<V453000>this is fucking mayhem
16:00<V453000>making stupid ass junctions for all of evening
16:00<V453000>the result is splendid
16:00<V453000>but the time efficiency is zero XD
16:01<andythenorth>srsly, might as well add 8bpp export :P
16:01<V453000>XD
16:01<V453000>how though
16:01<andythenorth>as you have zero efficiency anyway
16:01<V453000>I do have 8bpp sprites
16:01<andythenorth>can’t get worse
16:01<V453000>but converted 8bpp ain't pixel pushed pixel art
16:02<andythenorth>downscale with nearest neighbour it will do
16:02<V453000>but converted 8bpp better than borked 8bpp mode
16:02<V453000>downscale is not the problem
16:02<V453000>pallette conversion is
16:02<andythenorth>meh
16:02<andythenorth>how many sprites is it?
16:02<V453000>read 8bpp not EZ :P
16:03<V453000>fuckload at the moment
16:03<V453000>3500ish
16:03<andythenorth>too many for me to fix
16:03<andythenorth>3500 just for maglev?
16:03<V453000>in like 5 files though :P
16:03<V453000>no for everything
16:03<andythenorth>oic
16:03<V453000>for maglev ... hm
16:03<andythenorth>how many for maglev, to nearest 100?
16:03<V453000>yeah around 100
16:03<V453000>plus bridges
16:04<V453000>(joys of base set)
16:04<andythenorth>not too many to fix
16:05<andythenorth>I did rivers :P
16:05<andythenorth>that was similar number
16:05<andythenorth>all climates crap
16:05<argoneus>oy Wolf01
16:05<argoneus>we are 3 for new diablo season
16:05<argoneus>do you want to join
16:05<V453000>:)
16:05<V453000>well ... will see how it turns out
16:05<argoneus>or anyone
16:05<argoneus>V453000 come grind with us
16:05<Wolf01>lol, I just closed it
16:05<argoneus>stop the trains
16:06<V453000>atm I do support 8bpp sprites with valid sprites, but not with pixel pushed proper sprites
16:06<V453000>"works
16:06<V453000>argoneus: I am grinding polygons with hope to get a newgrf
16:06<V453000>drop rates are utter shit though
16:06<argoneus>grinding polygons?
16:06<argoneus>with a stone?
16:06<V453000>it actually is as fast as if I was doing it with a rock yes
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: converting palette is done in two easy steps. convert with the reduced palette (no magic colours), then apply the original palette
16:07<V453000>yes Eddi, that is what I am doing ... except I always forget to remove magic colours
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>if you want to convert the recolour mask as well, things get tricky
16:07<frosch123>i am at 150 m³ alcohol per month
16:07<V453000>but that still does not give a pixel-precise pixel-artish result
16:07<frosch123>but it is made from maize, so not sure...
16:07<V453000>conversion != x1 pixel art
16:07<argoneus>V453000: hope you have it done soon
16:08<argoneus>seems like you're having tons of fun
16:08<Wolf01>argoneus, are you starting a new hero?
16:08<argoneus>Wolf01: yes
16:08<argoneus>new season
16:08<Wolf01>ok, maybe in a day or two, I'm grinding at T4 now
16:08<argoneus>ok
16:09<V453000>argoneus: yeah, not going to happen soon :D
16:09<V453000>still, not interested in grinding some diablo, sorry
16:09<V453000>have a good time though :)
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16:32<frosch123>why can i transport alcohol in an open wagon, but not in a tank wagon?
16:32<andythenorth>edibles tanker
16:38<Supercheese>when you transport alcohol in an edibles tanker, it should be renamed to a tankard
16:38<Supercheese>and don't let the YETIs near it
16:38<Supercheese>you don't want to see a drunk yeti
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'm missing a joke in there
16:40<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html#/search=drunkard
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16:40<Supercheese>and http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html#/search=tankard
16:41<V453000>tankard XD
16:43<Supercheese>giant beer stein on rails
16:43<Supercheese>make it happen
16:44<frosch123>a drunken yeti snoring on a flat wagon?
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>how did it happen that english people call a "bierkrug" a "stein"?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>no german ever used that word in this context
16:45<Supercheese>according to wikipedia: ""Stein" is an abbreviation of German Steinzeug "stoneware",["
16:45<Supercheese>and apparently someone took that and ran with it
16:45<Supercheese>likely while drunk
16:45<V453000>XD
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>but a bierkrug isn't even made of stone...
16:46<V453000>apparently someone thinks that germans have their stuff made of stone
16:46<Supercheese>when it comes to alcohol-related terms, it's best not to think too much about it
16:46<Supercheese>same for drug terminology
16:47<V453000>+1
16:52<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: clay is some type of stone, isn't it?
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: more like some kind of sand
16:53<frosch123>uhm... how do distant join road stops?
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>you a verb.
16:54<frosch123>do i recall correctly that someone unified ctrl to remove stuff?
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember that
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16:55<frosch123>oh, nevermind
16:55<frosch123>i hit the wrong keys again
16:56<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: earlier i wrote "to" instead of "do"
16:56<frosch123>in average i am correct
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>on average, the river was 1m deep :p
16:58<V453000>XD
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17:00<frosch123>did andy find a way to break breakdowns?
17:00<frosch123>i haven't seen a single breakdown yet
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17:01<V453000>well you can set reliability decay to 0
17:01<V453000>but I guess you should still see some
17:03<andythenorth>I dunno
17:03<andythenorth>did I break them? :o
17:03<frosch123>no idea, maybe ottd is broken :p
17:05<andythenorth>ah
17:05<andythenorth>now FIRS is broken with pypy3
17:05<andythenorth>that’s interesting
17:05<andythenorth>I changed a png
17:06<V453000>how dare you
17:07<andythenorth>yeah
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: at least if "it works" is no longer a requirement, you can do some pretty decent speed upgrades :p
17:07<andythenorth>true
17:07<andythenorth>silver lining
17:07<andythenorth>back to py32 then :(
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>like "lossy sort" :p
17:08<V453000>yeah :) I like the progress to b ... desaturated base of tracks and wires https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_maglev-wip5-a.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_maglev-wip5-b.png
17:08<V453000>still some details to fix here and there, but the main stuff is done
17:10<andythenorth>did you change some colours also?
17:10<andythenorth>definitely better with desaturated unused track
17:10<andythenorth>oh yeah base is less green
17:10<V453000>the only colours changed are the wrinkly ground to desaturated concrete, and desaturated wires
17:10<V453000>yeah less yellow/green
17:10<andythenorth>and gained contrast on the base
17:10<V453000>too
17:11<andythenorth>seriously good now
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that looks better
17:11<andythenorth>not good enough to get me off classic 8bpp TTD style
17:11<andythenorth>but close
17:11<V453000>that I understand ;)
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>now fix the alignment of the vertical tracks... it drives me nuts :p
17:11<V453000>yeah I will see what is going on there
17:11<V453000>ah nice :D
17:12<V453000>was just reasonless move of the thing
17:12<V453000>idk why
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17:17<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: fixed :) thanks for noticing
17:18<V453000>if you want to be more nuts, I got some other bugs that you cannot unsee :P
17:18<frosch123>found a breakdown \o/
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>nah thanks, i'm fine :p
17:18<V453000>well, good night :)
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>somehow the flash and the html5 version of youtube ended up with slight differences in hotkeys
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17:39<sim-al2>Hi guys, stupid question time: For basic NFO bytes, like in the train example on the newgrf specs wiki, how does D8 0E become 3800?
17:40<frosch123>@calc 0x0E << 8 | 0xD8
17:40<@DorpsGek>frosch123: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
17:40<frosch123>@calc 0x0E * 2**8 | 0xD8
17:40<@DorpsGek>frosch123: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
17:40<frosch123>@calc 0x0E * 2**8 + 0xD8
17:40<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 3800
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>0E is the high byte, D8 is the low byte. so you have 0*16^3+E*16^2+D*16+8
17:41<frosch123>anyway, better use "\w 3800"
17:43*andythenorth makes better chemical plant sprites
17:43<andythenorth>that aren’t just oil refinery and fertiliser plant combined :P
17:44<andythenorth>also bedtime
17:44<andythenorth>bye
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17:45<sim-al2>Ok thanks, didn't realize that the bytes were "backwards" so to speak
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it's a weird thing to wrap your head around initially
17:46<sim-al2>I think I'm doing pretty well, figured out how to decompile a grf and wading through the long lines of bytes looking for the power ones 0.o
17:46<frosch123>sim-al2: that's why you use escape sequences :) "D8 0E" = "\wx ED8" = "\w 3800"
17:48<+glx>would have been different if TTD wasn't written for a LE CPU
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>sim-al2: instead of battling with decompiled NFO, you could just write an add-on GRF with nml
17:50<sim-al2>I just want to increase the power a bit, writing a whole new thing seems a lot harder
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18:09<Eddi|zuHause>sim-al2: you can write an addon grf that just changes the power of an existing grf
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18:33<Wolf01>'night
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18:37<supermop>i still have no idea how to interpret japanese multiple until naming conventions
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18:37<sim-al2>mutiple what?
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18:58<Mazur>You're all going to piss yourself laughing: turns out, my shiny new Antec case only looks like it has a solid front without "door", there is a door, which closes to near seamlessly
18:59<Mazur>Behind the door are hte actual power switch and reset switch as alway.s
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 31 00:00:28 2016