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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-02-02

---Logopened Tue Feb 02 00:00:31 2016
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04:32<V453000>ok so who played train valley? I played like 3 missions and it is awesome :D TRAINZ
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04:54<Eddi|zuHause>never heard of that
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05:23<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't really look like a game i'd enjoy
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05:53<Flygon>V453000: Reminds me of a game I played in the 90s
05:53<V453000>yes exactly
05:54<V453000>shortline railroad probably
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>i like to micromanage the rails, not the train...
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>so this whole "let the trains run without signals" business looks shady to me
05:55<V453000>it is definitely not openttd, at all
05:56<V453000>but it is totally a lot of fun :D looks innocent, but pretty hard :D
05:56<V453000>at points
05:56<V453000>and quite short probably, I already got 25% of the missions done
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06:21<@peter1138>http://www.amazon.co.uk/Banana-Guard-Holder-Carrier-Lunchbox/dp/B000SUNVUS
06:21<@peter1138>errr
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06:35<Eddi|zuHause>sounds legit
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06:47<TycoonBro>Anyone has some tips for a starter openTTD player?
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06:48<Eddi|zuHause>...
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>tip #1: wait at least until someone can finish typing their reply
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07:02<argoneus>good morning train friends
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07:04<Wolf01>o/
07:05<argoneus>\o
07:23<mescalito_>Da groove train. Choo-choo!
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11:39<Wolf01>meh, completed an achievement and did not receive the bounty :|
11:39<Wolf01>argoneus, do you know if it's possible to upgrade the legendary gems also if socketed?
11:40<argoneus>Wolf01: yes you can
11:41<Wolf01>oh, now the bounty appeared lol...
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11:42<@Alberth>it heard you complain :p
11:45<Wolf01>completed the first set.. almost twice
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11:47<Wolf01>omg, 106,0M crit dmg O_o
11:48<Wolf01>264 now, lol
11:50<Wolf01>391 also is a nice amount of damage
12:05<argoneus>nice dong
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12:27<V453000>so where is north
12:27<V453000>"0
12:27<V453000>:)
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12:35<andythenorth>o/
12:35<V453000>yo north
12:35<V453000>have you seen train valley?
12:36<V453000>I lost whole today to it
12:36<andythenorth>nah
12:36<andythenorth>is it what?
12:36<V453000>http://store.steampowered.com/app/353640/
12:39<andythenorth>is it a more complex version of this? https://www.belightsoft.com/products/rails/#mac
12:39<andythenorth>with story mode?
12:39<andythenorth>track switching looks similar
12:39<andythenorth>‘story mode'
12:40<andythenorth>moar story mode
12:41<andythenorth>will I try it?
12:41<andythenorth>but Steam :P
12:41-!-frosch123 [~frosch@x4d0196e2.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
12:41<andythenorth>oh it’s on App store
12:41<andythenorth>also
12:41<andythenorth>quak also
12:42<andythenorth>V453000: I’m blaming you for this
12:42<Wolf01>there is also for windows 10/mobile?
12:43<andythenorth>http://train-valley.com
12:44<V453000>I wouldnt call it story but it is interesting to say the least
12:44<V453000>simple, but fun
12:44<andythenorth>waiting for download
12:44<andythenorth>we should make a train game
12:45<frosch123>hola
12:45<V453000>yo
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12:51<@planetmaker>o/
12:52<V453000>heyo pm :)
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13:06<starddude>Hi guys! I've got a quick question involving placing train stations near towns in a "build" format game
13:08<starddude>could anyone offer any assistance?
13:10<@Alberth>just ask the question in general
13:10<@Alberth>more people can answer then :)
13:11<starddude>Ok! So when I build a train station next to a town, generally the goal is to get that town to a certain population
13:11<starddude>let's assume the town is called "X".
13:12<starddude>in order to meet the transport requirements (people, mail, goods, etc...) does the trains station need to be exactly "X" or can it be something like "X-North" or "X-South"?
13:12<Milek7_>this is only name
13:13<starddude>huh?
13:14<@Alberth>vanilla openttd doesn't have requirements, so you muct be playing one of the city builder scripts?
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13:14<starddude>Yes. One of the "Builder" maps on multiplayer
13:15<@Alberth>the script could have special requirements, but as milek7 said, the precise station name isn't very important
13:16<@Alberth>otherwise the script would eg break if you have 2 stations in the town
13:16<starddude>so the station name doesn't have to wind up having exactly "X" be the name?
13:16<starddude>that does make sense...
13:16<@Alberth>well, I don't know precisely, as I have never played with such a script, but I'd say it's unlikely
13:17<Milek7_>434 #openttd.dev You may not change nickname while banned or moderated on a channel (+b/+q/+m)
13:17<Milek7_>stupid server
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13:17<@Alberth>you can of course easily try, build a second station, see if it works if you brong goods there
13:18<starddude>yeah i could probably try that too
13:18<starddude>also one last question
13:19<starddude>i one time didn't claim a town (hq wasn't close enough) so i had to delete and move it
13:19<starddude>but then i lost the "claim" on the town and couldn't put it back (prevents me from building in cities). is there any way around that?
13:19<Milek7>propably ask script author
13:20<@Alberth>I agree with that
13:20<starddude>lol well i'll try and figure that one out too then
13:20<starddude>thank you for the help though!
13:21<@Alberth>you're talking about behaviour caused by the script, there is only one person who knows all the details
13:21<starddude>rodger
13:21<@Alberth>you can of course read the source code too :)
13:21<starddude>oh god
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13:24<Milek7>btw, game script can prevent player from building in city?
13:25<starddude>yes
13:25<starddude>you can only "claim" towns that are not cities
13:25<starddude>the goal is usually to get to 4000 pop in your claimed town
13:26<starddude>wait no, you can totally build. just not place your hq in it and claim it
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14:03<andythenorth>is cat though
14:10<V453000>absolutely
14:13<andythenorth>good
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15:16<Eddi|zuHause><Milek7_> 434 #openttd.dev You may not change nickname while banned or moderated on a channel (+b/+q/+m) <-- that is so you can't spam the channel with nick change messages
15:18<Milek7>yes, so user instead part channel, change nick, and join again
15:18<Milek7>Result: two messages instead of one
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>that may be so, but it has less abuse potential
15:21*andythenorth played rails valley for level 1
15:22<andythenorth>dunno if I’ll play more
15:22<andythenorth>cute though
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15:33<+glx>anyway .dev is usually inactive
15:46<andythenorth>it’s a Busy Busy Bee
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15:52<Eddi|zuHause>there are also busy beavers
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15:55<frosch123>game scritps are not busy beaver complete
15:57<andythenorth>hm
15:57<andythenorth>Busy Beaver
15:58*andythenorth ponders
15:58<andythenorth>GameScript that rapidly builds routes, and you have to try and destroy them?
15:58<andythenorth>a bit like pacman, in no real way at all
15:59<andythenorth>Bad Day GS
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15:59<@Alberth>rjun a few AIs :)
15:59<andythenorth>randomly closes industries, like recession, but worse
15:59<@Alberth>*run
15:59<andythenorth>hmm
15:59<andythenorth>no
15:59*andythenorth had a horrible idea, but won’t post it
16:00<andythenorth>instead, GS where you have to connect at least one industry per year
16:00<andythenorth>but the GS then closes another
16:01<andythenorth>none of these are fun :)
16:02<andythenorth>Waterworld GS?
16:02<andythenorth>start with one small island, deliver cargo, GS raises land
16:02<andythenorth>player is banned from terraforming
16:02<andythenorth>win condition: have n towns
16:02<andythenorth>or support population x
16:03<andythenorth>transport all cargos / serve every industry type GS?
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16:04<andythenorth>hm
16:05<andythenorth>I think ‘Coast-to-Coast-Bee’ remains the most plausible for gameplay :P
16:05<andythenorth>start with one town, on one map edge, and limited industries
16:05<andythenorth>fulfill connection / cargo goals, get more towns and industries
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18:13<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i'm not sure if i'm playing windward right. in the level 9 map i was fine against pirates, but in the directly neighbouring level 15 map, they shred me to pieces
18:15<Wolf01>I played only to level 6 (I'm going to the next area soon)
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>i think i more or less skipped the level 6 area
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18:32<Wolf01>which ship do you have now?
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>the bottom one from the exchange
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>so the 4th one
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>whatever it's called
18:34<Wolf01>brigantine
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably it
18:34<Wolf01>i have the schooner, the one before
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18:34<drac_boy>hi
18:34<Wolf01>o/
18:35<drac_boy>hows you wolf?
18:38<Wolf01>tired
18:38<Wolf01>I'm going to bed
18:41<drac_boy>heh have fun with that as usual? :)
18:41<drac_boy>either way anyone else here mind a bit of unusual steam pistons related question....I know theres simple and compound but do triple-use steam designs actually exist?
18:43<Supercheese>Marine propulsion engines seem to have had triple-expansion engines before they switched to turbines
18:44<drac_boy>marine? huh...I didn't think of that...thanks will have to look that up
18:45<Supercheese>Battleships and passenger liners, looks like
18:45<Wolf01>'night
18:45<Supercheese>(among others)
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18:47*drac_boy must already imagine the first piston is tiny, second one modest, and third one rather big? :p
18:47<drac_boy>guess I'll find out when I find some ships by tomorrow tho :)
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes. each expansion stage needs to get larger diameter
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>(assuming the piston movement is supposed to stay the same)
18:53<drac_boy>well...also I know that some of the rather early steam locomotive with Vulcan compound basically had the whole thing as a single cast (high pressure stroke on bottom, low pressure stroke on top, and not sure where the valves went in the whole picture) but usually compounding was an articulated locomotive thing with separated pressures (high front, low rear etca)
18:54<drac_boy>still wonder how popular the Vulcan version ever was seeing that I've came across photos *very* rarely
18:57<drac_boy>and heres a weird fact...the Fell railroad needed a new non-rack locomotive in a pinch so they took two unused Vulcan casts and put it on a chassis (with the rear one pointing rearward to clear the firebox apparently) .. this was the only one 8-cylinder compound known to exist heh (yep 4 front, 4 rear)
18:58<drac_boy>supercheese I mean can you believe a 8-cylinder locomotive even less a non-articulated tank one? :)
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>there were lots of single-body compound steam engines, especially in france
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>they were supposed to have better fuel efficiency, but problems with tractive effort
19:02<drac_boy>that I do know about..especially the more odd one that for example had HP on left and LP on right .. beleive these often were rebuilt away from that for operational reasons eventually
19:02<Supercheese>might have had troubles with the boiler not being able to feed all the cylinders
19:04<drac_boy>supercheese heh if you want a real example of "troubles" try THIS http://www.railarchive.net/bakervalve/04_erie_triplex.jpg as I recall the boiler was only like around 200-220psi range or so I believe and the firebox was still more or less only sized for a conventional 2-piston rating so it ran "thirsty" if you tried get any good speed
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>with mallet engines you usually put high pressure on the fixed part and low pressure on the movable part
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>because the low pressure pipes can be made bendy more easily
19:06<drac_boy>yep yep ... usa of course had to go make it complicated with using high pressure on both drivers but what else can you say? :P
19:08<drac_boy>I do somewhat agree with what an old mallet book said re that compound worked nicely in small locomotives but when you upsized it to the big locomotives (such as the usa ones) you started running into its drawbacks being much more pronounced
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, compound mallets were frequently used on narrow gauge lines
19:09<drac_boy>on the other hand not surprisingly the N&W Y6b somehow managed to work it out pretty well (to the extend that it was the very last modern compound design for north america afaik)
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>but main lines rather tried to stay away from compound in germany
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>they rather used 3 or 4 equal cylinders
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>pistons
19:12<drac_boy>well I don't know a lot about them personally but one derivation from that would be the Gt 2x4/4 which still existed in the DRG and even for a short time as DB too .. not sure of the actual operation retirement dates
19:13<drac_boy>it was an interesting one .. a compound 0-8-8-0T for mainline purposes
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but those were very isolated special purpose designs
19:13<drac_boy>funny enough I recall marklin seem to often use this one locomotive a lot in their catalog photos
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>they spent most of their life running up and down the same exact hill
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>until that was taken over by electric
19:15<drac_boy>I do recall that in 1945 one railroad scrapped a major fleet of worn down mallets due to receiving various ex-prussia T class locomotives as wartime repayment
19:15<drac_boy>forgot which one as its a war book I haven't read for a while
19:16<drac_boy>btw about 'same hill' why does that sound like uk and its Big Bertha to me? :)
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>"T" is not a class... it's a whole group of classes
19:17<drac_boy>I can't ever recall reading about the Big Bertha running anywhere else but I'm no english residence tho :)
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: because probably every steep slope line that used pusher engines used such things
19:18<drac_boy>well I'll be honest.. Big Bertha was something , only one single example built and eventually replaced by grouped 0-6-0T's ^_^
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>the details may vary
19:19<drac_boy>yeah. even then I think there was a story (probably true) where one or two of the U1 garrat failed with Bertha assisting ... cue a single train with quite a large number of driver axles
19:22<drac_boy>anyway to not get too distracted here... eddi what did you think about 3-cylinder's in general?
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>why would i have an opinion about that?
19:26<drac_boy>ah..just asking, don't worry about it then :)
19:28<drac_boy>I do know tho that NH or NYC (can't quite recall which N's now) had some alco-built 3-cylinder with some kind of alternative boiler .. eventually the boilers had been rebuilt to conventional one at big cost .. but then depression happened so the 3-piston was retained as much as mechanics didn't like it ... ran pretty good the whole time nevertheless
19:29<drac_boy>a few of the last one were converted to switchers (footplates fitted etc) and soon they found a good home at hump duty where they slipped less than 2-piston locomotives (doesn't surprise me)
19:30<drac_boy>sadly this is the only one single example of usa 3-cylinder that I know of
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>well, we have an operational 3 cylinder in our local museum
19:30<drac_boy>at least I know there were quite a number of them in europe/uk area ;)
19:30<drac_boy>not counting also the DRG Class 05 too :)
19:31<Supercheese>must have monstrous tractive effort if they can all cylinders running at power
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>03 1010, if you want to look for videos and stuff
19:31<Supercheese>can get*
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19:34<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: 3 cylinders are usually used with a phase offset of 120°, to get as symmetric force as possible
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause>the 03 (and 03.10) class was designed for lower axle weight, so tractive effort is probably not that great
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>they were basically a lighter version of the 01 (and 01.10) class, which had 4 cylinders
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>(afair not compound)
19:36<drac_boy>supercheese well the other thing as I sometimes describe it is that a 2-piston have 180 degree offset but 3-piston is only 120 degree ... meaning that the 2P one has constant high and lows on an axle thrust chart but 3P one has much more gradual curves which could explain the higher tractive on some locomotives
19:36<drac_boy>its not the best example (and doesn't always apply) but you get an idea
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: 2 pistons usually have 90° offset
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>180° is pointless, since the piston operates both ways anyway
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>with 90° you have at least one operating outside its dead point
19:39<drac_boy>ah I see your point
19:44<drac_boy>btw not to get too sidetracked again but "lighter version" happened in usa too .. there were actually at least one fleet of 'superpower' 4-8-4's in the 1940's that was bluntly really a 4-6-2/4-6-4 on paper except for more modern firebox with better output and re the additional driver axle due to ancient weight restrictions
19:47<drac_boy>their tractive actually weren't too bad (only slightly lower than the initial Lima design) so that was probably a good sign
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>the story of the 03 is that in the 1920s, the DR intended to raise all main lines to 20t, but didn't quite manage that due to war reparations, economy collapse and whatnot
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>so they had to come up with a plan B to provide an 18t engine
19:49<drac_boy>of course if anyone was in canada in the 1950's they probably would have been a little surprised to find an old ex-NYC slider valve 4-4-0 (with woodie cab no less) working a canadian branch service where many ancient wooden bridges existed that prevented the use of anything newer at all
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>the initial plan B was to continue building the 18 (bavarian S3/6)
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>and later when it became clear that the conversion wasn't going to happen anytime soon, the 03 was developed by stripping down the 01
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>and another ten years later, the 01.10 came immediately also as a 03.10 variant
19:50<drac_boy>S3/6? geeze I didn't know that ... thats one of my few favorite bavarian locomotives after all :)
19:52<drac_boy>mm I had known of the 01 itself, did not know about the 03 or that *.10 variation
19:55<drac_boy>anyway sorry about cutting this short but kinda should be going already (talk about talking so much that time went by!)
19:55<drac_boy>and hey supercheese have fun talking with him if you want to? ;)
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