Back to Home / #openttd / 2016 / 02 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-02-15

---Logopened Mon Feb 15 00:00:00 2016
00:59-!-day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:00-!-day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
01:05-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
01:05-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
01:12-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:14-!-Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-250-122.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:15-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:20-!-Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-250-122.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd
01:22-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
01:22-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
01:27-!-AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd
01:29-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:30-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has joined #openttd
01:37-!-JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!]
01:57-!-Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail]
01:58-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:14-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
02:24-!-Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
02:34-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has joined #openttd
02:34-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:49-!-roidal [~roland@193-154-139-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
03:15-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
03:33-!-Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:35-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:37-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:01-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
04:11-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:20-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd
04:29-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
04:29-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
04:32-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6CACD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:36-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:36-!-Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:5c2d:2a41:5773:8743] has joined #openttd
04:37-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
04:56-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:59-!-day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:00-!-day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
05:15-!-liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
05:33-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit []
05:35-!-roidal [~roland@193-154-139-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:41-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd
05:51-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
06:13-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host243-238-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
06:13<Wolf01>moin
06:26<argoneus>good MORNING train FRIENDS
06:26<Wolf01>what's morning?
06:27<argoneus>it's something I seem to skip every day
06:27<Wolf01>like me
06:41-!-AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd
06:43-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:44-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit []
06:47-!-roidal [~roland@194-152-168-25.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
06:48-!-AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:48-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
06:50-!-AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:29-!-qwebirc75216 [~oftc-webi@223.17.104.139] has joined #openttd
07:30-!-roidal_ [~roland@62-46-142-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
07:32-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:33-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
07:33<qwebirc75216>... Is there any way to check where's the other end of tunnel in openttd? I'm now playing an android port of the game with 512*512 map and 128 max tunnel length then I randomly put a tunnel somewhere accidentally. The resulting tunnel seems very long but I don't know where's its another exit. Is there any way for me to check?
07:35-!-roidal [~roland@194-152-168-25.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:36-!-roidal [~roland@193-154-143-31.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
07:42-!-roidal_ [~roland@62-46-142-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:46<Wolf01>qwebirc75216, follow the rabbit in the hole? The tunnel is straight and can end only at the same height, so it might only be at the other side of the map if it's very long. Also I suggest to use transparency options to hide trees and find easily the entrance
07:46<Wolf01>or put a depot in front of the entrance you know and start a vehicle and follow it
08:42-!-qwebirc75216 [~oftc-webi@223.17.104.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:42<_dp_>there is a limit to tunnel length, so it can't be too far, 64 tiles or smth, mb configurable though
08:43-!-ghost64 [~ghost64@corrigan.xyz] has left #openttd [Leaving]
08:49<Wolf01>uhm, nice city name "Lamerburn"
09:05-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd
09:15-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:21-!-Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces]
10:00-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-178.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd
10:09-!-drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
10:10<drac_boy>so...who want some random rail chat again? :p heh
10:13-!-Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@177.201.140.181] has joined #openttd
10:16<drac_boy>hi clockworker, wheres the counterclockworker now? :)
10:21-!-Clockworker [~Clockwork@177.201.140.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:24-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
10:24-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
10:33<Wolf01>mmmh it seem I can't get my mod to work with windward :|
10:35<drac_boy>windward?
10:39<drac_boy>whats this re windward and mod?
10:40<Wolf01>it's a game I and Eddi are playing
10:43<drac_boy>oh game...hm..is that the sail one from steam?
10:43<Wolf01>yes
10:45<drac_boy>well, hope you two having fun either way allright? :)
10:47<Wolf01>it's a nice game
10:57<drac_boy>well I already have enough to play with (neverminding slow progress on additionals for them like eg this grf for ttdxp)
10:57<drac_boy>:)
11:16-!-George [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd
11:17<George>Hi
11:17<George>Need the advice about desyncs
11:18<drac_boy>your or someone else's server?
11:24<George>There is no server
11:24<George>There is the grf
11:24<George>it has the following part
11:24<George>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/xussrset/repository/entry/src/freight/boxcars/ntv.pnml
11:24<drac_boy>oh, dunno then sorry. someone else here probably could help you tho
11:24<George>lines 186-189
11:25<George>It is intended, that the wagon would change the capacity when visit the depot
11:25<George>but it does not work as intended
11:27<George>Capacity is somehow cached and is changed several days after vehicle leaves the depot
11:28<George>causing error message "GRF changed capacity outside depot"
11:28<George>The question is - how to change capacity depending on last service date correctly (causing no desync error)?
11:35<drac_boy>going off for some lunch now, good luck anyhow :)
11:35-!-drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd []
11:36<George>isn't it to late for lunch? ;)
11:37<@Alberth>depending on which part of the world you live, probably not :)
11:40<George>Alberth: may be you can suggest something about my desync question?
11:41<@Alberth>I had a quick look, and it seemed ok at first sight, but then again, I am a total noob at NdewGRFs
11:41<@Alberth>did you however verify this is the real problem?
11:41<@Alberth>ie take that code out, and see if the desync is solved?
11:42<@Alberth>xussrset is very big, maybe it is a different capacity
11:43<George>Yes. This code causes error message
11:43-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
11:43-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
11:43<@Alberth>ok, that narrows it down considerably
11:43<@Alberth>I am afraid you'll have to wait until a more knowledgeable person appears
11:44<George>Anybody here? :D
11:47<@Alberth>I wonder if you can set the capacity explicitly
11:47<Wolf01>I'm here, but I don't know anything about newgrfs :(
11:47<George>Alberth: How?
11:48<@Alberth>I don't know :(
11:48<@Alberth>but your check basically works only after you left the depot, rather than making a change while you are in the depot
11:49<@Alberth>ie the servicing code doesn't get a hint that you are about to change the capacity
11:50-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:00<@Alberth>the only other thing about capacity seems to be refitting
12:00<@Alberth>maybe it's a limitation of the newgrf to only allow capacity change when refitting???
12:01<@planetmaker>I actually believe that is the case
12:01<@planetmaker>And tbh, that's sensible
12:02<@planetmaker>A player wants the vehicle to service regularily for his train to function properly
12:02<George>And how would this code would break it?
12:02<@planetmaker>And a change to *capacity* on *service* is going to mess with his setup - something a player cannot avoid happening
12:02<@planetmaker>it breaks it by changing capacity depending on service date
12:03<@planetmaker>it's something which cannot be done
12:03-!-_johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-177-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
12:03-!-ck [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b20f:6d5f:2a7b:e47:e28:e095] has joined #openttd
12:03-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:03-!-namad7 [aaaaa@pool-173-75-34-156.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
12:03<George>And how it BREAKS proper functioning?
12:04<@planetmaker>a refit - on the other hand - is always something the player explicitly asks for. So that is different. And a refit is also clearly something which changes the consist
12:04-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-178.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:04-!-ck is now known as Guest3927
12:04-!-Guest3927 [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b20f:6d5f:2a7b:e47:e28:e095] has quit []
12:04<George>A player gets better wagon after service
12:04<@planetmaker>George, it breaks my well-balanced train network by the fact that a single train now takes more cargo
12:04-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b20f:6d5f:2a7b:e47:e28:e095] has joined #openttd
12:05<@planetmaker>it takes cargo which a 2nd train won't get. So that the chain the 2nd train supports gets less. Thus starting a domino process
12:05<@planetmaker>it will unbalance my network where I have time-tabled trains such that my industries will remain well-supplied
12:05<@planetmaker>more capacity != better. At least not generally
12:05<@planetmaker>nor is faster
12:06<@Alberth>well, without explicit user interaction at least
12:06<@planetmaker>yes, of course :)
12:06<@Alberth>If I refit, and thus change the consist, it's all my fault :p
12:06<@planetmaker>yup. But then you know what you do
12:07<@Alberth>planetmaker gets angry at me for messing up the network :)
12:07-!-namad7 [aaaaa@pool-173-75-34-156.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
12:08-!-Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d086936.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:09<V453000>more capacity also means worse acceleration
12:11<V453000>but in general capacity should indeed never change once built
12:11<V453000>most importantly ... why?
12:12<George>The railway rules
12:12<V453000>railway rules?
12:13<V453000>like railtype rules? or?
12:14<George>No. I mean RL.
12:14<V453000>but why upon service? :d
12:15<V453000>"in year 1920 a new law came out that wagons shall not carry more than 20t" ... so that you would reduce/increase wagon capacity upon service?
12:18<George>Нуы
12:18<George>Yes
12:18<V453000>why not just introduce a new generation of wagons?
12:18<George>Because the player can use old wagons in such case
12:19<George>With refit on service he can't
12:19<V453000>you can prohibit old wagons to be haulable by modern vehicles
12:19<V453000>also, many people don't service their trains very often, if ever
12:20<George>In case unserviced they whould have low reliability
12:21<V453000>yes but anybody playing without breakdowns won't care
12:21<George>yes, unless he sends it to depot for some reason
12:22<V453000>then the law you are trying to apply will only appear when autoreplacing
12:22<V453000>so the player will upgrade their trains, thinking all is fine, and wagons suddenly drop capacity?
12:22<V453000>that sounds like a bug to me on the first sight
12:23<Wolf01>too much realism that leads to obscure game mechanic... bad feature imho
12:23<George>But it makes the set more realistic. In the current case capacity is increased.
12:24<V453000>yeah ... a prime example of realistic extremism
12:24<V453000>sacrifice anything to get a bug for most people
12:26-!-Simozzz [~oftc-webi@host81-166-155-90.butovo.com] has joined #openttd
12:27<George>Back on topic. Is there a way to fix desync error for this case?
12:27<Simozzz>Hello everyone!
12:28<V453000>I changed power on service some time ago, it was fixed. But I had to promise that I will never fiddle with capacity of things upon service or station visit, as such desync is unfixable with the way things work.
12:28<Wolf01>meh, why is it so difficult to draw anything to a pixel matrix
12:28<V453000>perhaps things are different today but I doubt it
12:28<V453000>hi Simozzz
12:29<Simozzz>Most strange part in that desync is the time when it occurs.
12:29<Simozzz>Not in depot, when train get out, but when it reverses on rails
12:32<@planetmaker>Alberth, nah. I just let you build yours ;)
12:33-!-Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
12:33<@Alberth>:)
12:33<Simozzz>And another one strange thing - wagon's capacity doesn't change on first visit after these changes have to be done. I.e. not at first visit after new year. But after that, if train shoud change direction of travel - game stops with desync error.
12:33<@planetmaker>George, I'm actually not sure it should be allowed to change those properties on service
12:34<@planetmaker>Property changes should mean a refit
12:34<@planetmaker>IMHO
12:34<Simozzz>There is a savefile, where you can recreate that error
12:35<@planetmaker>V453000, those things definitely did not change :)
12:35<@planetmaker>So, that was probably stated by frosch (he knows these things)
12:35<V453000>yes it was
12:35<@planetmaker>And that means, George: you cannot have that feature 'change capacity on service'. You need to remove it
12:35<V453000>maybe together with rubi, not sure
12:37-!-smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/]
12:38<@planetmaker>George, and tbh, 'changing capacity on service' is not realistic either. Vacuuming a wagon or rinsing it with water and putting some oil on movable parts will not change capacity in real life either.
12:39<@planetmaker>It's only realistic to change capacity during a refit order - that's when vehicles are completely refurbished
12:39<@planetmaker>thus the realism-argument backfires in this case
12:40<George>:D
12:41<Simozzz>Realism that states after that one is that in early 20th century improving qualiity of rails allowed to put more cargo in same wagons without touchin them
12:41-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6CACD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
12:42<Simozzz>In our case, all cargoes have it's volume, so does wagons. And we limit capacity both by weight and volume.
12:43<Simozzz>And early wagons have enough of free volume to carry more cargo.
12:43<V453000>can capacity change upon travelling on a different rail type?
12:43<V453000>if yes then you can do that
12:44<Simozzz>To bad, there is not enough of railtypes aviable..
12:44<V453000>15 is not enough?
12:44<Simozzz>Increasing it will help.
12:44<Simozzz>Yep.
12:44<V453000>wtf :D
12:44<V453000>what railtypes do you have? 15 sounds majorly confusing to any player already
12:45<Simozzz>4 speed limits + 2 types of catenary + some misc.
12:45<@Alberth>V: it's not about players, it's about simulating RL
12:46<V453000>yeah apparently Alberth
12:46<V453000>I tend to keep thinking that somebody should be using/playing the thing? :D
12:47<Simozzz>They are, but most of them gave no feedback at all.
12:48<V453000>honestly, OpenTTD is totally not prepared for this amount of realism you are attempting to put into it, and all of the realistic features will probably strongly backfire to anybody "just trying to play the game
12:49-!-George [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit []
12:49-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
12:50<andythenorth>o/
12:50<@Alberth>hi hi
12:50<Simozzz>And that's why we add parameters that allow both to play casually and in hardcore realism. No other grf allows later.
12:51<Simozzz>There was canadian set which tried to be as realistic as possible, but I don't remember, is it abandoned or not.
12:51<argoneus>train tracks have speed limits?
12:51<argoneus>what happens if you go faster
12:51<argoneus>friction spook?
12:51<V453000>yeah canadian set was also ultra bad
12:52<Simozzz>In case of playability - maybe.
12:52<argoneus>the north american set seemed realistic
12:52<argoneus>the trains barely moved
12:52<argoneus>kappa
12:52<V453000>you PLAY the game, playability sounds kind of important
12:52<argoneus>V453000: some people enjoy simulation
12:52<V453000>why do they play openttd then
12:52<Simozzz>Well, if you want to know why there are speed limits - come to Russia and you'll se. It's hard to tell in words)
12:53<Simozzz>Becasue they want to play openttd with realism?
12:53<Simozzz>sound wierd, i know)
12:54<Simozzz>But still, there are those people who like to play openttd that way.
12:54<V453000>if you want realism then why not a real simulator game
12:54<Simozzz>Railsim at steam costs ~80k roubles with all addons and doesn't offer any kind of Russian trains.
12:54-!-Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
12:55<Simozzz>Well, except M62 and BR232.
12:56<argoneus>i dont really want to come to russia
12:56<argoneus>someone would put plutonium in my drink
12:56<argoneus>/s
12:56<argoneus>Simozzz: have you tried some train simulators?
12:56<argoneus>they have map editors right
12:57<argoneus>openttd is fairly simple and casual
12:57<Simozzz>They've done that outside, so you are nowhere safe)))
12:58<V453000>why not just make the trains LOOK realistic? isn't that enough?
12:58<V453000>but make it actually play nice?
12:58<V453000>that sounds to me like a legit approach
12:58-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
12:58-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
12:58<V453000>fit to openttd
12:59<Simozzz>As I said, we made both casuall and hardcore versions in one
12:59<V453000>how casual is the casual one?
12:59<Simozzz>Not as casual as NUTS)
13:00<Simozzz>But you can disable speedlimith, merge different locomotives of series in one et.c.
13:00<argoneus>nuts is pretty uncasual tbh
13:01<Simozzz>Tbh, NUTS is something that differs from others completly.
13:01<V453000>nuts is very casual in the way of thinking "it does not make the set straight up unusable for new players"
13:01<Simozzz>But it is very friendly towards online games
13:01<V453000>the vehicle amount and class amount is just huge, which is what makes it seem harder
13:02<V453000>oh, xussr is meant to be used only in single player or? :P
13:02<V453000>then why care about desyncs :P
13:02-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-178.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd
13:02<Simozzz>In online it causes desync, which is started that discussion
13:03<V453000>I know but if you orientate on having the set only for SP, then just declare it that
13:04<argoneus>oh Simozzz I know
13:04<argoneus>here's what you do
13:04<argoneus>you make openttd 2
13:04<argoneus>seems like you know a lot about trains
13:04<argoneus>so should be fine
13:04<argoneus>and then V453000 can port his casual nuts
13:04<argoneus>and then we can all be happy
13:06<Simozzz>Hm,,, how to PM here?)
13:06<argoneus>/query argoneus
13:06<argoneus>or /msg argoneus hi
13:06<Simozzz>Thanks.
13:09-!-gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6b424.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
13:10<Simozzz>Well, if I could - I'd tried to make OTTD2, but...
13:11<V453000>can is an excuse, want/try is the way :P
13:12<Simozzz>If you'll do my work for me - then I'll try. Otherwise I have not enough free time.
13:13<@Alberth>nobody has enough free time
13:13<Simozzz>These barely enough to draw 1-2 locomotives for xUSSSset
13:13<Simozzz>*xUSSRset
13:13<@Alberth>free time is something you make by not doing other things :)
13:14<Simozzz>And that's why one of possible ways to get more free time - is to make V do my work for me))
13:14<V453000>V is kind of limited on time as well :P
13:15<V453000>got some newgrfs coming at some point as well :)
13:15<argoneus>V is a traitor
13:15<argoneus>he's cheating on openttd with other trains
13:15<Simozzz>lol
13:15-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
13:15-!-Crisco [~oftc-webi@209.194.234.171] has joined #openttd
13:16<_johannes>Eddi|zuHause: yesterday, you said: "the follow track function can already distinguish station tiles"
13:16<Crisco>can someone tell me the file destination for the music file?
13:16<_johannes>what did you mean? Does YAPF check tiles for whether they are parts of stations?
13:17<V453000>I wouldn't call it other trains but can't deny that much
13:17<@Alberth>Crisco: OpenTTD has a README file that explains the point at the file system for such files
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>_johannes: the follow track function is the part that applies the penalties and knows which tiles are adjacent
13:17<Simozzz>All we've get to with 6 years of work is version 0.4.1...
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>_johannes: it will check tile type, trackbits and stuff
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>_johannes: and is the part where e.g. the road pathfinder differs from the rail pathfinder
13:17<V453000>regardless, I have to do something to live, so if you consider it, working for factorio also improves my skills I use for openttd :P everybody benefits
13:18<V453000>6 years sounds kind of insane
13:19<Simozzz>That's from complete restart of set... First versions were made in ~2004-2005
13:19<Simozzz>so this set is more than 10 years old
13:20<V453000>I admire the stamina and motivation, but I prefer things which are done in a year, improved over another year, and done
13:21<V453000>well nuts probably took 3 years in total
13:25<argoneus>V453000: you underestimate russian tenacity
13:26<V453000>point taken
13:26<argoneus>they are REALLY good at getting things done
13:26<Simozzz>It takes to much time to find all visual diferences in locomotives, that occur during it manufacturing. For example latest ES5K series have 5 different types of body, with refitable liveries... Resulting in 7 groups of 40 sprites each + 5 groups by 8 sprites for cabless boosters. Resulting in total of 320 sprites for one locomotive series..
13:26<argoneus>wow
13:27<Simozzz>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/xussrset/repository/entry/src/electric/3es5k.png
13:27<argoneus>V453000: actually take that back, slavs in general seem to be good at making things
13:27<argoneus>poles have witcher, we have factorio, russians have tons of great games
13:27<argoneus>ukrainians have stalker
13:27<argoneus>slav games best game
13:27<argoneus>s
13:28<argoneus>Simozzz: that looks really nice
13:28<Simozzz>Hm, could you name any good russian games? Because I don't know)
13:28-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:28<Simozzz>Well, exept for tetris...
13:28<argoneus>Simozzz: IL2 sturmovik is russian iirc
13:28<Simozzz>Hm, yes, it is.
13:29<argoneus>tetris is a classic
13:29<Simozzz>Forgot that one
13:29<argoneus>blitzkrieg is good
13:29<V453000>are the years progress of your work, or changing graphics for the vehicle as game years go?
13:29<argoneus>metro 2033 is russian too
13:30<argoneus>nvm, its ukrainian
13:30<Simozzz>That's ingame dates.
13:31<V453000>that is a lot of sprites for a very short time period in the game.
13:31<Simozzz>Yes, it is.
13:31<Simozzz>But real ones have much more differences.
13:32<V453000>admittedly my new train set will have absolutely outrageously insane amount of sprites per vehicle, but they will be for all time playing, and 3D rendering helps too :)
13:32<Simozzz>Most of them skiped.
13:32<Simozzz>To bad there is no one in our team, who could make use of 3D.
13:33<V453000>honestly
13:33<V453000>if you aren't interested in just learning 3D modelling and stuff, then it is not worth using it for openttd
13:33<V453000>just hand drawing is much more efficient there
13:33<V453000>x4 zoom is totally not mandatory
13:34<V453000>and making 3D models which actually good and detailed, takes a lot of time
13:34<V453000>which look *
13:34<Simozzz>I know. I've tried that once... Spent more time adapting rendered sprites compared to drawing them.
13:35<V453000>well you do that just once, when you figure it out, it works for all of your models
13:35<V453000>but creating the content itself, is very long process
13:35<V453000>currently I am 3D modelling vehicles with extreme detail, 90% of the details will never be visible in openttd
13:35<V453000>just because I practice use of blender
13:36<V453000>if my only goal was to create the newgrf, I wouldn't even use 3D probably
13:37<@Alberth>/me likes V in full 3D
13:37<V453000>wat
13:38<Simozzz>And that's why I keep using MS Paint whole time... I tried both PS and Gimp, and found them less comfortable to use.
13:38<@Alberth>V: I'd hate it if you would be 2D only
13:39<Simozzz>I know that using layers cold save a lot of time, but... I'll spend more time trying to learn how to use them
13:41<V453000>I have used PS without layers for pixel drawings
13:41<V453000>if ms paint works, why not :)
13:41<V453000>I did use some of the tools that PS has over MS paint even for pixel drawing, but rarely
13:42<Simozzz>I have had to use PS before, because you can't save files as .pcx in MS paint
13:43<V453000>why not just use png? xd
13:44-!-Crisco [~oftc-webi@209.194.234.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:44<Wolf01>bitmap resolution and font size, how do they work?
13:45<Simozzz>because it was not supported before)
13:46-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6B6D4.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
13:46<@Alberth>Wolf01: 1pt is a certain distance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_%28typography%29 resolution gives number of pixels per some distance
13:47<Simozzz>In times before NML, the only format used for newgrf was ,pcx.
13:48<@Alberth>Wolf01: 12ptis 12/72 inch high, at 100dpi you get 100 * 12 /72 pixels
13:48<@Alberth>s/ptis/pt is/
13:49<Wolf01>so, I have square pixels, I know they are about 0.5mm and I need to set a right font size
13:52-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6CACD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:52<@Alberth>1/0.5mm = 2/mm = (2/2.54)inch
13:52<@Alberth>@calc (2/2.54)*72
13:52<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 56.6929133858
13:52<@Alberth>56 pt ?
13:53-!-frosch123 [~frosch@x5f74613f.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
13:53<@Alberth>nah, doesn't look right
13:54<Wolf01>mmmh, no, it doesn't
13:54<Wolf01>but it's well readable at 15m
13:55<Wolf01>too bad I have only 130x40 pixels :)
13:55<Wolf01>no, 160x43
13:58-!-liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
14:07<V453000>ah yes sorry Simozzz I didn't realize :D
14:08<Wolf01>I think I'll use 72DPI with 10pt, at least it makes 4 lines of text of 10 pixels each
14:09-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:09-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
14:11-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:11-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:12<Wolf01>too bad I don't have a colour lcd screen to test the right resolution for that one
14:26<frosch123>hoi
14:26<argoneus>eu4
14:27-!-__builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:29-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
14:33<V453000>yo watup
14:39<andythenorth>lo V453000
14:39<V453000>ho
14:40<andythenorth>what ho?
14:40*andythenorth being English
14:41<V453000>all hos
14:45<V453000>modelling uranium powered rocket engine monstrous bulldozer
14:45<V453000>no big deal
14:52<Snail>hey Andy, nice graphics for the vehicles factory…
14:53<Snail>planning any additional graphics for the output? like cars, tractors...?
14:53<andythenorth>maybe
14:53<andythenorth>I might mix in cars and tractors
14:53<andythenorth>currently it’s all trucks
14:53<andythenorth>cars are boring though :P
14:54<Snail>well :)
14:55<Snail>depends on the scale you’re choosing
14:55<frosch123>add a toyshop, and just scale down the cars
15:22-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-178.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:24<andythenorth>V453000: so am I done with vehicle factory eh?
15:25<V453000>idk, probably yes? :P
15:26<V453000>vast progress has been made for sure
15:26<V453000>I don't have any major issues with the latest one
15:28<andythenorth>I think I’ll come back to it later
15:28<andythenorth>sometimes sprites need a break
15:39<V453000>:)
15:43-!-drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
15:43<drac_boy>hi
15:43*andythenorth must to draw a Pyrite Smelter
15:43<andythenorth>what larks
15:44<frosch123>https://opentextbc.ca/geology/wp-content/uploads/sites/110/2015/08/nickel-smelter-at-Thompson.jpg <- more roofs :p
15:45<frosch123>i think the conveyor belts for the ore could be a theme
15:45<frosch123>instead of pipes :p
15:46-!-Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910::2] has joined #openttd
15:48-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
15:49*drac_boy does not even see any locomotive!
15:49<drac_boy>;)
15:50-!-ck [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b21e:690d:342c:2cf6:5210:a2b4] has joined #openttd
15:50-!-ck [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b21e:690d:342c:2cf6:5210:a2b4] has quit []
15:53<andythenorth>frosch123: yeah I had that picture saved :)
15:54-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b20f:6d5f:2a7b:e47:e28:e095] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:56<andythenorth>quite boring compared to http://www.flifrance.com/sites/geosynthetics/files/styles/fli_full_page_header_image/public/cs_geo_newcaledonia.jpg?itok=HhrsFE3l
15:57<drac_boy>http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mhw99/Images/Image9.jpg then?
15:57<frosch123>andythenorth: yes, but you already have the water pools at the copper smelter
15:57<frosch123>so, this time conveyor belts?
15:58<andythenorth>http://en.mercopress.com/data/cache/noticias/31535/0x0/onapuma.jpg
16:01<andythenorth>I liked this one particularly http://www.sulphuric-acid.com/Sulphuric-Acid-on-the-Web/Acid%20Plants/BHP-Kalgoorlie-2.jpg
16:01<andythenorth>the acid plant and the metal plant are quite distinct
16:02-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:09<@Alberth>very tropical :)
16:10-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:10<drac_boy>sorry have to afk for a bit
16:10-!-drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd []
16:11-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b21e:690d:342c:2cf6:5210:a2b4] has joined #openttd
16:15-!-roidal [~roland@193-154-143-31.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
16:19-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
16:22-!-Simozzz [~oftc-webi@host81-166-155-90.butovo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:25-!-Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:25<_johannes>Eddi|zuHause: Were you refering to CFollowTrackT::Follow() ?
16:26<_johannes>and where does this function in any way check for a station?
16:32-!-frosch123 [~frosch@x5f74613f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
16:37-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit []
16:37-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>_johannes: i'd look for where the penalty settings are used
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>pf.yapf.rail_station_penalty or something
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>_johannes: inline bool PfCalcCost(Node &n, const TrackFollower *tf) seems like the place
16:44<_johannes>Eddi|zuHause: FollowTrack::Follow() is called in order to add more nodes to the A* algorithm?
16:45<_johannes>so it's called by FindPath() ?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>_johannes: i have never looked into the specifics of the pathfinders
16:50-!-gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6b424.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:50-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd
16:54<_johannes>Eddi|zuHause: found it, it's in the yapf_costrail.hpp
16:59-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@50-37-85-136.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd
17:05-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
17:06-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:35-!-_johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-177-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:38-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
18:11-!-Clockworker [Clockworke@177.2.176.228] has joined #openttd
18:15-!-Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail]
18:17-!-Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
18:17-!-Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@177.201.140.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:23-!-APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:24-!-APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd
18:32-!-__builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
18:34-!-JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd
18:38-!-Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:5c2d:2a41:5773:8743] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:43-!-drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
18:43<drac_boy>hi again
18:58-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
19:21-!-Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:810a:71a0:f62a:16c5] has joined #openttd
19:26-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6B6D4.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:37<drac_boy>hm guess sim-a12 probably is around another night instead..ah well :)
19:37-!-drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd []
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i think i should put him on ignore...
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>the poor kid...
19:49<sim-al2>heh...
19:51<Wolf01>:(
19:51*Wolf01 -> bed
19:51<Wolf01>'night
19:51-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:00-!-liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
20:03-!-liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
20:20-!-liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
20:22-!-liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
20:23-!-D-HUND [~debdog@2a02:8070:4585:f300:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
20:25-!-Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:27-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4585:f300:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:32-!-Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:810a:71a0:f62a:16c5] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:46-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@50-37-85-136.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
22:04-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
22:04-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
22:11-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:29-!-liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:50-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b21e:690d:342c:2cf6:5210:a2b4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:51-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
23:16-!-qwebirc63179 [~oftc-webi@223.17.104.139] has joined #openttd
23:17<qwebirc63179>And... why when I want to remoce a truck station, it tell me I can't do that and I must remove truck station first? http://imgur.com/4da2EKv
23:19-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
23:19<D-HUND>that's not a bus station
23:19<D-HUND>it is the one for lorries
23:19-!-D-HUND is now known as debdog
23:29-!-qwebirc63179 [~oftc-webi@223.17.104.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:40-!-Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail]
23:48-!-Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910::2] has joined #openttd
---Logclosed Tue Feb 16 00:00:02 2016