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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-02-16

---Logopened Tue Feb 16 00:00:02 2016
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07:07<argoneus>good morning train friends
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07:22<Wolf01>o/
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07:47<Wolf01>mmmh, and if I want to put a clock into a clock?
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08:07<argoneus>he has a clock, quick arrest him
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08:45<Wolf01>I still can't understand the resolution (dpi) to use for my display and the correct font size :|
08:45<Wolf01>every font is different
08:46<Wolf01>for a small font I need to set more dpi to keep the lines close, for a larger font I need to reduce the dpi to make it readable
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09:06<peter1138>err
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10:16<Wolf01>uh, shit happened... the library has a function to check if the display is connected, the parameter is int and can check for 2 different models (1 and 2), if I check for 1 it works, if I check for 1 | 2 it doesn't, but it worked right before the conversion from const to enum... does anybody know if there might be something weird happening there?
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10:26<Eddi|zuHause>how does your check look?
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>(that doesn't sound like proper english, somehow)
10:28<Wolf01>if (!IsConnected(MONO | COLOR))
10:29<Wolf01>https://autoit.de/index.php/Attachment/83443-LogitechGamingLCDSDK-pdf/ page 7
10:30<Wolf01>I called init for both panels, IsConnected(MONO) returns true
10:33<Wolf01>I expect both function to work as the docs say
10:33<Wolf01>functions*
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10:34<drac_boy>hi
10:36<sim-al2>hi
10:36<drac_boy>not sure why didn't think of this for a while but how do you find a grfid to use or is it just kinda like a random thing?
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: and you are sure MONO and COLOR are set to the right version?
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>*right value
10:37<sim-al2>I think the standard procedure for grfid is the initials of your name
10:37<drac_boy>oh, thanks and btw hi again sim-a12 :)
10:38<Wolf01>public const int LOGI_LCD_TYPE_MONO = (0x00000001);
10:38<Wolf01>public const int LOGI_LCD_TYPE_COLOR = (0x00000002);
10:38<Wolf01>from the docs
10:38<sim-al2>There's a wiki page around here somewhere, one sec
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: but you said you switched to enum?
10:38<Wolf01>yes, I copied the values to the enum,
10:40<Wolf01>both (int)(COLOR | MONO) and (LOGI_LCD_TYPE_MONO | LOGI_LCD_TYPE_COLOR) have 3 as result
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: so what does the enum look like?
10:40<Wolf01>public enum LCDType : int
10:40<Wolf01> {
10:40<Wolf01> TYPE_MONO = (0x00000001),
10:40<Wolf01> TYPE_COLOR = (0x00000002)
10:40<Wolf01> }
10:41<Wolf01>but bow I tried again with constants and it doesn't work too
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand why you would do that, though
10:42<Wolf01>for parameters types
10:43<Wolf01>I have a wrapper for the headers I got with the docs, it's not a problem with the wrappers because it doesn't work with their headers too
10:44<drac_boy>oh and sim-a12 while we're onto certain locomotives heres one more for you from uk http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/0001-dh-collection-fell.jpg apparently it had four engines but somehow part of its weight fell over the ends instead of over drivers to start with
10:45<sim-al2>There found it: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action8#GRFID
10:45<drac_boy>funny enough it was just 2000hp which the then-soon deltic easily beat it at
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: then your problem is somewhere else
10:48<sim-al2>drac_boy: That was one of the early attempts at a high power diesel mechanical (as opposed to diesel-hydrauic common in Germany and exports or diesel-electric in much of the world)
10:51<sim-al2>Actually quite a strange system overall, there were two engines used soley to provide compressed air to the traction engines, as the tranmission design is entirely unlike anything else I know of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_10100
10:51<drac_boy>and not strange but rather just unique would be this "huge" monster which was during the era of builders doing specialized-task locomotives (before the one-do-everything idea caught on with eg GP7) https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4057/4714781522_3eb7acfecd_b.jpg
10:52<drac_boy>that was basically a yard goat with two huge engines in both ends... as yardmasters would say "anything except the kitchen sink"
10:52<drac_boy>gearing was rather low for that reason (anyone want shove 110 wagons at 30mph?)
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10:53<Wolf01>I'll try to update the sdk
10:54<Wolf01>meh, already the latest version
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10:56<drac_boy>btw I kinda liked the uk diesel-hydraulics, too bad that as I recall politics basically was summed up as "stop anything that is not related to diesel-electric!" I think :-/
10:56<drac_boy>(that including steam or turbines too)
10:56<sim-al2>drac_boy: There were a small number of transfer locomotives like that, but for the more part they have been replaced with either low HP versions of mainline locomotives or former mainline locomotives with "slugs", esentially otherwise non-powered former locomotives that can draw power for their traction motors at low sppeds
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: what do they call these types of bugs, where it works, but as soon as someone spots it, it becomes clear that it never could have worked in the first place?
10:57<drac_boy>funny enough for some reason it was only certain diesel-hydraulic that had the interesting "little" nose bumps (instead of a fullsize hood like on the deltic or flat cab end as per anything else)
10:58<drac_boy>https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fc/eb/0a/fceb0ada66a5c541e8f9afd64cb0f78b.jpg see what I mean about that little nose on it? :)
10:58<sim-al2>Was the end of the tranmission there underneath the cab?
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: no i don't.
10:59<drac_boy>sim-a12 no I think the transmission was under the floor
11:00<drac_boy>also one thing (which I'm still always curious about for some reason) was that the uk diesel-hydraulic seem to have inside bearing while everything else had outside ones instead (no outside frame in another word)
11:00<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause, it's funny because I never used the check for both panels, only for the MONO panel to throw exceptions if one tries to call functions explicit for the COLOR panel (all the others check internally the panel type and call the right function of the library)
11:00<sim-al2>The export locomotives that Krauss-Maffei built for the SP, D&RG, and EFVM had a rather tight positioning of the cab just above the forward transmission
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: so did you run the initialization correctly before calling the connected function?
11:01<Wolf01>yes, it's a 4 lines code, I doubt to do something wrong :P
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>you can do loads of things wrong in 4 lines :p
11:01<Ketsuban><Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what do they call these types of bugs, where it works, but as soon as someone spots it, it becomes clear that it never could have worked in the first place? <- Schrödinbug?
11:01<Wolf01>ahah
11:02<drac_boy>sim-a12 well yeah the ML4000 did have a rather thick looking chassis when sitting next to any usa diesels
11:02<drac_boy>probably was to do with the hydraulic components
11:04<drac_boy>at least re bearings it wasn't anything unique, even the V200 had inside ones too just to start with http://41.media.tumblr.com/c6b26e0439ab8ffb964811a19e5e0a0b/tumblr_mso6shtZXc1r1ducho1_1280.jpg
11:05<sim-al2>drac_boy: I suppose the British locomotives had the same bogie design as the V200
11:05<drac_boy>oh and sim-a12 do you know that there is still one surviving ML4000 only because it was drivetrain-decoupled and had its nose butchered a bit aka turned into a genset-ready camera "wagon"? last I heard about it a few months ago the restoration group are looking to turn it back into a fully working locomotive again
11:06<drac_boy>SP scrapped all other ML4000's as they had no purposes left tho..or something to that effect
11:07<sim-al2>Yeah, they've been working on restoring in for the past few years, since it was in somewhat poor condition after not running for many years
11:10<drac_boy>sim-a12 btw about transfers .. I know that not too long time ago some railroads when they had a bunch of GP's they didn't need on the mainline anymore thanks to newer cowl hood SD units...they just simply stripped the charger off them and sometimes change gear to keep them as low-maintenance switchers (still stronger than even a SW1500 in some cases)
11:11<drac_boy>and CSX still apparently loves their old and new slug units .. even the few that are basically just engine-gutted locomotives (nothing like watching a train with 3 locomotives and only two of them are making smoke)
11:13<peter1138>is that a thing?
11:13<drac_boy>heres one slight older example http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures/40658/05%20IMG_3958%20slug%20and%20mother.JPG
11:13<drac_boy>usually easy to spot due to lack of radiators from no engine
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>i swear half the words you say make no sense whatsoever
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11:17<drac_boy>and sim-a12 if you don't mind another csx photo this one was taken nov 2012. thats a GP40-2 slug as the third locomotive http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8496845324_2831b4aa6c.jpg
11:19<sim-al2>I think that's the wrong picture, that's not even an EMD
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11:23<Wolf01>let see if the customer support answers me, I hate the forums because noone always reply on these questions :|
11:25<drac_boy>I still kinda like the cow&calf pair that came from the emd switchers tho. but can see why they eventually died away
11:25<drac_boy>(doesn't help that one railroad actually ordered two example of double-calfs)
11:26<drac_boy>oh, right it was chessie. was easy to find a photo of it anyway http://kingstonemodelworks.com/MRH/tr3.jpg
11:35<drac_boy>either way sim-a12 have fun with whatever else you were doing before me came ... I'm going off for a bit of lunch and many other misc things
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11:44<peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, maybe he has everyone else on ignore :p
11:48<sim-al2>peter1138, what were you asking about?
11:49<peter1138>i have no idea
11:49<sim-al2>Oh lo
11:49<sim-al2>*lol
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12:04<Wolf01>ah!
12:04<Wolf01>they replied
12:04<Wolf01>I am not sure what the documentation states, but I understand why your code it's not working.
12:04<Wolf01>If you only have a MONO LCD (G510) your call to LogiLcdIsConnected(LOGI_LCD_TYPE_COLOR | LOGI_LCD_TYPE_MONO) will fail, because you are asking the SDK if there is both a COLOR and a MONO devices connected. The answer is False, since you only have a mono lcd.
12:04<Wolf01>Don't get confused by the bitwise operator | , that's just creating a bit mask to pass as parameter to the function.
12:04<Wolf01>as far as I understand, LogiLcdIsConnected(LOGI_LCD_TYPE_COLOR | LOGI_LCD_TYPE_MONO) works only if I have 2 keyboards connected
12:05<Wolf01>(did they use AND instead of OR?)
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12:08<@Alberth>return ((real & mask) == mask; instead of ((real & mask) != 0; ? :)
12:09<Wolf01>maybe
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: AND will be nonsense...
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12:16<Wolf01>so, if I have both keyboards connected, LogiLcdIsConnected(LOGI_LCD_TYPE_MONO) should fail?
12:16<Wolf01>because LogiLcdIsConnected(LOGI_LCD_TYPE_COLOR | LOGI_LCD_TYPE_MONO) must work then
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12:59<Wolf01>ok, at least they admitted the docs are not really clear
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>so... i was wondering why after a restart my computer seemed to be louder, then i realized i only started fancontrol, but did not set the hard disks to spin down
13:01<Wolf01>use ssds, you don't have to worry about the noise
13:01<Wolf01>http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a57187G_460s.jpg ahah! and I still look at the connector when I need to charge my smartphone...
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: not having the money for a 6TB SSD right now :p
13:03<Wolf01>switch to cloud?
13:03<@Alberth>throw a few TB away? :)
13:04<Wolf01>just redownload the things when you need them
13:05<Wolf01>I suppose that at least 5 of those 6 TB are movies and music
13:05<Wolf01>;)
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>not all things can be downloaded :p
13:06<Wolf01>eh, weird pr0n XD
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>that can ONLY be downloaded :p
13:07<Wolf01>"you wouldn't download a car"...
13:08<Wolf01>(EA has different opinion)
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>sure i would.
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13:08<Wolf01>I would too, just because it is possible
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13:12<Wolf01>ok, I don't want to continue developing today... I made most of the things work and I'm happy with it
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13:37<andythenorth>o/
13:38<Wolf01>o/
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14:14<rah>I get this error when generating a map: "A fatal NewGRF error has occurred: UKRS2 must be loaded before this grf"
14:14<rah>I've fiddled with the NewGRF order but I can't seem to make it go away
14:15<andythenorth>UKRS 2 addons?
14:15<rah>right yes, I just realised :-)
14:15<rah>PEBKAC, nm :-)
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>the error window could tell you which GRF threw it
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14:46<Wolf01>quak
14:47<frosch123>hoin
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>which animal makes "hoin"?
14:49<frosch123>i just noticed if you spell animal the old hebrew way, you get nml
14:49<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: thanks for that :)
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>sure, that's what i wanted :p
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14:54<Wolf01>andythenorth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3jPRLu-5TI a bit old but yt just suggested it to me, but lot of things are really interesting
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15:01*andythenorth watches
15:09<Wolf01>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqbDgc5lTtg also... it has even drum brakes in all the wheels O_O
15:14<andythenorth>air brakes?
15:14<andythenorth>has he got a clutch in there too?
15:14<andythenorth>or is that some sequential gearbox magix?
15:15<Wolf01>I think the second one
15:15*andythenorth zones out about gearboxes and such, I’ve built manual and RC vehicles with gearboxes
15:15<andythenorth>they’re boring
15:15<andythenorth>ha those are unimog tyres, I thought they were 62.5 at first
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15:20<Wolf01>that guy is awesome, I can't even think about what he can do
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15:21<andythenorth>he must have time :)
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15:26<Wolf01>but the most impressive things I've seen are these (not lego): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1429gs5dQno (check the other videos too), He's a friend of my ex-coworker and another lego fan... he built everything by himself, no kits
15:27<andythenorth>ha
15:27<andythenorth>nicely inlaid to the patio
15:27<andythenorth>I am *not* showing that to my kids
15:27<Wolf01>:D
15:30<Wolf01>I've seen his Komatsu excavator, on screen it looks like a kit you purchase, but if you couls see it on real you notice it's even better, really close to the original one, and every piece was made by him (ok, motors, pumps and the electronics were purchased)
15:31*andythenorth has been considering making real stuff
15:31<andythenorth>not lego stuff or pixels
15:31<andythenorth>probably too much faff
15:32<andythenorth>I got a bunch of childhood trains out of my parents loft
15:32<andythenorth>intending to sell them on ebay or give them to my kids
15:32<andythenorth>I found some where I had been scratch-building from styrene sheet
15:33<andythenorth>mostly junk, but the newest ones weren’t bad
15:34<andythenorth>but no undo, no autosave, no version control
15:35<Wolf01>I tried to do something non lego, but I don't put much effort to finish the thing, even the anime mechas I have aren't painted
15:36<andythenorth>yeah
15:36<andythenorth>with Lego, even a failed MOC is just parts for the next thing
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15:44<Wolf01>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBIbMWq1ktI O_O
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16:01*andythenorth must to sprites?
16:01<Wolf01>yes, time runs
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16:12<andythenorth>meh
16:12<andythenorth>so tempting to make the basic economies bigger
16:12<andythenorth>not the point, eh?
16:12<Wolf01>no, it's basic, what's the point to make it bigger?
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16:14<andythenorth>yeah
16:14<andythenorth>on the plus side, I was going to redraw the pyrite mine
16:14<andythenorth>but all the pictures of real ones
16:14<andythenorth>look like my sprites
16:19<frosch123>can we automate the creation of the pictures on the industries page?
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16:25<frosch123>also, i have a feature request
16:25<frosch123>have you played ecs?
16:25<frosch123>when enabling transparency, some industries/houses show special sprites
16:26<frosch123>which makes industries easily noticeable when enabling transparency
16:27<frosch123>currently the town based industries like general store, grocers, hardware store, hotel, ... are quite hard to find
16:27<frosch123>they would benefit from the transparency trick
16:29<Wolf01>I have faeture request too: a good looking, easy to use, widely compatible grf set
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: too many undefined words in there
16:31<frosch123>"easy to use" is too subjective
16:31<Wolf01>not too many parameters ;)
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: the only words in there that have a clear definition are "a", "to" and "grf"
16:32<Wolf01>ahah
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16:33<andythenorth>frosch123: iirc, it’s implemented in ecs / ttrs as a black ground tile with an icon on it?
16:34<frosch123>yes
16:34<frosch123>something like that
16:34<andythenorth>yeah, it’s desirable
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: doesn't have to be black, but the icon might be useful
16:34<andythenorth>I won’t get to it for v2
16:34<frosch123>doesn't need to be completely black
16:34<andythenorth>we should just automate that :P
16:34<andythenorth>we have cargo icons, no?
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>those are likely too small
16:35<andythenorth>I have long wanted some way to see cargo production / acceptance on minimap or map
16:35<andythenorth>industry chain view is close, but not quite
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that has nothing to do with the suggestion at hand, though
16:35<andythenorth>well, if we automate it
16:35<andythenorth>I don’t have to draw anything :P
16:35<andythenorth>so I benefit
16:36<andythenorth>I would likely do it with icons
16:36<andythenorth>or is that dumb?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: doesn't have to be a different icon for each industry. just a "this is an industry" icon
16:37<andythenorth>hmm, ok
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>possibly different icons for primary/secondary/tertiary
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>or mine/farm/factory/office
16:40<andythenorth>it’s a nice easy feature
16:40<andythenorth>in most cases it’s just drawing something on the ground tile, within the footprint of the building
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>if you don't want to draw so much, ask george for his icons
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16:43<frosch123>i like the idea of automating to draw input and output cargo icons on th etiles
16:43<frosch123>but it may be a bit small
16:43<frosch123>to put 5 icons on a single tile
16:43<frosch123>either the 1 tile industries look weird
16:43<frosch123>or the 20 tile industries look weird
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16:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, train fever has the cargo icons drawn next to the industry, buit i don't think it works very well.. i constantlx think: "well, is this oil or coal now? both are black"
16:53<frosch123>true, is it pyrite or gold
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>a better place for cargo icons would be next to the industry name
16:55<frosch123>industry name?
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>so you have "Factory [steel][grain][livestock]/[goods]" in the title or the minimap legend
16:56<frosch123>in the title it is pointless, the window already says the cargos
16:56<frosch123>the smallmap is already way too crowded
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>the industry list?
16:56<frosch123>industries use small font, and the legend is still huge
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know whether that already uses them
16:57<andythenorth>I would have stacked icons vertically, in two stacks
16:57<frosch123>i think someone suggested filters for the industry list
16:57<andythenorth>perhaps with up and down arrows
16:57<andythenorth>or cargo names, not icons
16:57<andythenorth>more adjustable per font size etc
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you can fit icons on the actual minimap
16:58<andythenorth>overlaid on main map
16:58<andythenorth>once per industry
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>what would be the use for that?
16:59<andythenorth>avoids a trip to minimap
16:59<andythenorth>what’s the use of the cdist map overlay, compared to minimap?
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>no idea, never used that
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>man these pirates spawn faster than i can sink them
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>and i can't repair while under the influence of poison fog
17:12*andythenorth must to sleep
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18:28<Wolf01>'night
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21:01<kais58>/win 24
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22:34<Eddi|zuHause>/lose 32
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 17 00:00:03 2016