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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-02-17

---Logopened Wed Feb 17 00:00:03 2016
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04:44<andythenorth>o/
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05:44<Wolf01>o/
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09:34<supermop>yo
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09:57<andythenorth>o/
09:57<Wolf01>o/
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10:07<andythenorth>ach
10:07<andythenorth>Iron Horse, Road Hog have rosters
10:07<andythenorth>should the rosters match FIRS economies?
10:07<andythenorth>or is that wrong?
10:07<andythenorth>where’s Eddi|zuHause when I need him? :)
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>not "wrong", but "unnecessary", i think
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10:10<andythenorth>probably constraining also
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10:23<andythenorth>lo Alberth
10:23<@Alberth>hi hi
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11:43<supermop>interesting thematically, andythenorth , but I wouldn't be too constrained by it.
11:44<supermop>and of course it should be possible to play a tropic firs game with alpine vehicles, or similar
11:45<supermop>off to go stand in line for a chance to buy some kanye shoes for a friends friend... not the most fun way to spend an afternoon
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12:23<Eddi|zuHause>"a friends friend"... sure...
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13:03<andythenorth>have a crash log https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvmoh97km
13:03<andythenorth>it’s free
13:04<andythenorth>I’ve seen this before, happens in the industry chain window, when selecting the ‘select industry’ dropdown
13:05<andythenorth>not reproducible reliably
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>try reproducing it in an unmodified version, and provide a crash dump?
13:09<@Alberth>looks scrollbar-ish ? capacity at least sounds related, didn't check the line number
13:10<andythenorth>it’s triggered by mouse event on the dropdown, at least, that’s the action I perform
13:10<andythenorth>yeah, it’s a patched OpenTTD, I removed the tropic landscape generator in favour of temperate
13:11<@Alberth>capacity == 0 would also trigger it, empty list or so?
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's probably not your modification that's causing it, but providing a crash dump only really helps if the other person has the exact same code.
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>also, operating system...
13:12<andythenorth>understood, but I think it’s low chance of reproduction anyway :P
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13:29<Wolf01>http://www.brothers-brick.com/2016/02/17/the-key-to-happiness-is-lego/ eh, I always said that lego is the key to happiness
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13:32<andythenorth>cheese slopes
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14:13<Wolf01>bye
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17:10<_dp_>hi, is there some way to scroll user's view from gs?
17:10<_dp_>or at least determine where it will be when he joins server
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>view position is part of the savegame that gets transmitted. so if you adjust the "view" of the server (with the "scrollto" command), that will be what the user sees when joining
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>the position set this way is the top left corner of the screen. you cannot "center" the screen since you don't know the resolution of the user
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17:26<argoneus>have you guys heart about vulkan
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the thing that is all over the internet getting everybody hyped?
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>no, never heard of that.
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18:00<_dp_>hm, I'll try it, ty
18:00<_dp_>corner is kinda weird thing to save though imo
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>it's just what it always was, and there was never enough reason to change
18:10<_dp_>I'd assume that people are usually looking at center of the screen not corner
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18:10<argoneus>heard*
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: sure, but realize that a) when the game was released 20 years ago, it came only in one resolution, and b) most individual people only play with the same resolution, so they hardly ever notice the system behind it
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>there are two main cases where it comes up: 1) the title screen competitions, and 2) making a scenario where the introduction screen matters
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>an example for 2) is the USA scenario, which starts out in the sea off the east coast, with instructions to scroll west
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18:17<_dp_>I was thinking of centering players on their town in cb
18:18<_dp_>still can assume that they have at least 1000x750 or smth but centering would be better
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>that's not really going to work
18:19<_dp_>what do you mean?
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>you'd have to intercept the join package, and quickly scroll to the location before the network savegame gets made
18:19<_dp_>Ye, no big deal
18:19<_dp_>intercepting enough packets already :p
18:20<_dp_>also can patch saving code
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>then assume a minimum resolution of 640x480
18:22<_dp_>if I center it for 1000x750 it will still be on screen for 640x480 so that's fine
18:24<_dp_>there is another issue though
18:25<_dp_>was thinking of automatically claiming some town when player starts company, but that wouldn't work if he joins as spectator first
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>you could react to the company creation packet then?
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>there is definitely an interface for presenting dialog boxes
18:28<_dp_>but can't scroll viewport since savegame is already loaded
18:28<_dp_>can dialog box scroll view?
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know. you could place the HQ and make the player click the "view HQ" button?
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>there might be something more specific about this that i don't know
18:29<_dp_>btw, is there a way to show standard error window? that small read one
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
18:30<_dp_>haha, main cause I'm doing it is for players that don't know where "place hq" button is, and "view hq" is the same one xD
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: tried checking how the tutorial script does it?
18:31<_dp_>no, didn't even know there is such script)
18:31<_dp_>learned to play in 1995 xD
18:34<_dp_>hm, how to select script from online content? I only see local ones
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean?
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18:36<_dp_>trying to crate game with tutorial gs, in gs configuration window from main menu I can only select local gs
18:36<_dp_>even though there is "check online content" button I don't see any way to select script I downloaded there %)
18:41<_dp_>ah, it's just tutorial gs, others do appear in list
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18:43<Eddi|zuHause>oh, yes. it's hidden and can be only accessed if you download the scenario associated with it
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18:44<_dp_>yeah, figured that much, now trying to locate where did it put scenario %)
18:45<_dp_>it desperately needs a tutorial on how to run this tutorial xD
18:49<_dp_>for some reason had to restart openttd for it to show up in file tree
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>you should open a report for all of these interface issues :ü
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>:p
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18:58<_dp_>I lost my faith in those kind of issues :p
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19:04<_dp_>tutorial does it with GSViewport.ScrollTo and ofc it can't be used in multiplayer
19:10<_dp_>considering making a patch to add smth like GSViewport.ScrollCompanyTo
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19:14<supermop>yellow path signals has the (side?) effect of causing trains to crawl at 40kmh in the block before a station stop
19:14<supermop>even if that block is miles of single track
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: you can't scroll a company's view, as there may be multiple people in the same company
19:22<_dp_>why not scroll them all?
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: yes, i meant to make a post about my thoughts on that patch, but i think i got distracted
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: no, scrolling is a client thing, not a company thing
19:23<supermop>i guess i'd like a 3 aspect signal that doesn't look so far ahead, but in this case that wouldn't help
19:23<supermop>i guess you'd need a non-path path signal, that says "try not to wait here, but slow down if i am yellow"
19:23<_dp_>so what? scroll all clients that are in said company
19:24<_dp_>ofc will need to add network command for that to work
19:24<supermop>or some other means of signalling single track effectively
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: if you want to do that, you can just loop over all clients in the company
19:24<_dp_>it doesn't really matter for my case actually
19:25<_dp_>I just couldn't think of any gs function that works with clients
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19:31<_dp_>all gs api revolves around companies, can't see any client at all
19:33<supermop>this also discourages 'nicer' station throats, as a pair of switches taking up 3 tiles vs an X taking up 1 leads to much longer at 40kmh
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19:46<supermop>for now i'm going to change single yellow speed to 80kmh
19:47<supermop>i trust the instant brakes of my ottd trains
19:47<_dp_>I didn't get those yellow signals at all. It's train deceleration that's broken, not signals.
19:48<_dp_>may be somewhat helpful in few cases but superfluous in all other
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19:52<_dp_>well, signals aren't very realistic either, but that's part of game design
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20:11<supermop>well the extra lights look pretty
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20:42<Eddi|zuHause>have you ever read through old forum topics, and thought "hey, that sounds like something i would write", and then you look over and see "hey, i DID write that"
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20:44<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: i have put down my thoughts here if you want to have a look http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1164301#p1164301
20:47<supermop>sounds good
20:48<supermop>i guess it requires his SPAD model for decelleration as well?
20:48<supermop>or a choice of deceleration models?
20:48<Eddi|zuHause>not really
20:49<Eddi|zuHause>the braking distance would just be used as an estimation, an emergency brake would still get the train to stop faster
20:51<Eddi|zuHause>i think SPAD is taking the simulation too far, i would not play with that
20:53<supermop>it would be fun now and then
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>no, it would not.
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>i would disable train crashes completely, if i could.
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>turn crashes into breakdowns. keep the effect on ratings
21:08<supermop>yeah, every crash being a total write-off is frustrating
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 18 00:00:05 2016