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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-02-24

---Logopened Wed Feb 24 00:00:14 2016
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00:47<MonkeyDrone>can't even edit the wiki, i believe the IP range for my whole region is blocked because of spam issues, argh, just wanted to update the wiki with some more info
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03:12<_dp_>funny, and I disabled all checks for unnamed "player"s few days ago
03:12<_dp_>though will probably bring them back soon now that I see the scale of disaster xD
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03:16<_dp_>they seem to name their companies but not themselves %)
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07:43<Milek7>i used {STRING} in gamescript language file
07:43<Milek7>but passing squirrel string as argument to GSText constructor not works
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08:23<NXXR>mornin guys :9
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08:59<supermop>hi andythenorth
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09:04<andythenorth>lo supermop
09:06<andythenorth>how long should wagons be?
09:06*andythenorth likes trains that fit neatly to whole 8/8
09:06<andythenorth>good answer
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>for passenger wagons
09:06<andythenorth>I can do 2 at 6/8 and get that result :)
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>then don't bother :p
09:07<andythenorth>pragmatically the ones that are already drawn are 6/8
09:07<andythenorth>and 4/8 is too short, looks daft
09:10<supermop>what every became of your andean horses andy?
09:11<andythenorth>the roster didn’t make sense
09:11<andythenorth>and I am more interested in the African roster right now
09:12<andythenorth>the andean roster will happen
09:12<supermop>if you have a double unit thing, like the class 20 in IH, what about drawing the back half as a slug?
09:13<andythenorth>for the US roster I will yes
09:13<andythenorth>it’s a nice idea
09:13<supermop>idk if theyy do that in africa
09:13<supermop>ive only seen it once in real life here
09:13<supermop>but i dont spend much time or thought on freight rail
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>slug? talked to V for too long? :p
09:15<supermop>so is the roster more south african, or west african? or all over?
09:15<andythenorth>mostly west and central african
09:15<andythenorth>it’s all ‘ish'
09:16<andythenorth>this one turned out to be nearly 100% realism though
09:16<andythenorth>after I’d searched enough for things matching what I need to include for gameplay :P
09:16<supermop>probably for the best
09:17<supermop>with BR you would always feel the need to include this or that for familiarity's sake
09:17<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how many tons of coal in an 8 tile ‘high capacity’ train? o_O
09:17<andythenorth>there is high axle loading permitted and other realism nonsense
09:17<supermop>then shoehorn them in
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: a 4 axle wagon takes about 60t?
09:18<andythenorth>yeah, I have them at 55t
09:18<andythenorth>990t in 8 tiles, with 9000hp of engines
09:18<andythenorth>RL is more like 120t
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: those are 6 axle wagons
09:19<supermop>i assume they use american style equipment there
09:19<andythenorth>US has 40t axle weights, EU more like 30 I believe
09:19<andythenorth>oh the realisms :|
09:20<andythenorth>I think 60t is a nice capacity
09:20<supermop>just set capacity to "marvelous"
09:22<supermop>hmm they list their ore hoppers by voulume, and their coal hoppers by weight
09:23<supermop>possible bad feature: separate properties for volume and weight?
09:24<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE :D
09:24<supermop>big hopper gets too heavy before it is full of ore, small hopper gets too full before it hold maximum mass of coal
09:26<supermop>i guess can fake it with unexplained differences in capacity for refits
09:27<andythenorth>that has been done :)
09:27<andythenorth>not wisely
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably fine, but you won't ever have nice round numbers
09:29<supermop>according to this website, coke goes in covered hoppers, not open
09:29<supermop>why would it matter if it gets wet?
09:30<supermop>also i assumed they would bake the coke at the iron furnace rather than transport it from some other location
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09:55<Ketsuban>Nobody likes diluted coke.
09:59<dqe>can anybody help me to program crash with openttd??
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10:39<Milek7>static const int SCRIPT_TEXT_MAX_PARAMETERS = 20;
10:40<Milek7>and why it is undocumented!?
10:40<@Alberth>the latter is easy, nobody bothered to write documentation
10:41<@Alberth>the former is probably because 20 is sufficient
10:41<@Alberth>afaik you can have strings containing other strings
10:41<@Alberth>so you can build your text in a number of steps
10:42<@Alberth>alternatively, isn't 20 a lot to display to the user?
10:42<Milek7>if you are trying to do something like this, no
10:43<@Alberth>if that is all relevant information, it takes 15 minutes to find the things you're looking for :p
10:43<@Alberth>what is the importance of x/y numbers?
10:44<@Alberth>just use X%
10:45<@Alberth>if you want more precision near the 100, you can use "missing X units" say above 95%
10:45<@Alberth>that cuts the number of values by 1/4 to 1/3 or so
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10:47<andythenorth>‘flat is better than nested’
10:47<andythenorth>try find the right box car in this list :P
10:49<@Alberth>download, and open a image browser in the directory :)
10:49<andythenorth>it’s actually easier in the website
10:49<andythenorth>my file browser truncates the names inconveniently ;)
10:50<V453000>jesus christ what mess
10:50<@Alberth>no "info" box or "properties" box? :)
10:52<andythenorth>also press ‘space’ for image preview
10:52<andythenorth>V453000: better suggestion? o_O
10:52<V453000>groups of engines in 1 file?
10:54<V453000>if I had a directory like this, I would just remove it all XD
10:55*andythenorth looks
10:55<V453000>if everybody does it this way then I am not surprised nobody draws 70 cargo types
10:56<Milek7>nested string approach works a bit better
10:56<V453000>or idk how many there are
10:57<@Alberth>"many until all done" :p
10:57<Milek7>but silently breaks after 4 text objects
10:57<andythenorth>where are your wagon generations in nuts?
10:59<Milek7>oh, no, it works the same
10:59<Milek7>4 text objects contain total 20 parameters
11:05<V453000>andythenorth: each generation has it's own files :P
11:05<V453000>but all cargoes per type in one file
11:06<andythenorth>yeah same
11:07<andythenorth>splitting files up per cargo = madness
11:07<@Alberth>Milek7: so I was wrong, sorry about that :(
11:08<Milek7>but it is strange, it dosen't throw error 'invalid parameter' as before, but instead silently not work
11:10<@Alberth>error probably happens in one of the deeper string replacements, and gets suppressed
11:11<@Alberth>I really thought you could build a string in one statement, and then use that in a second string build statement, thus gradually building everything
11:11<@Alberth>but apparently not :(
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11:28<Milek7>server transfer town extra text independent to script code?
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11:29<Milek7>eg. if i recompile openttd with higher max parameters clients would also need to be patched or not?
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12:16<@Alberth>hi hi
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12:30<andythenorth>:o Pikka
12:30<andythenorth>not often seen, much missed :)
12:30<Pikka>hi :)
12:30-!-ck [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b222:e820:a333:8fe9:6cfc:975a] has joined #openttd
12:31<Pikka>Yep, busy busy... how goes things around here and/or there?
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12:31<Wolf01>andy is making a zoo
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12:32<Pikka>a horse zoo?
12:32<Wolf01>a "iron [animal]" zoo
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12:32<andythenorth>hola Terkhen
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12:33<andythenorth>Pikka: haz alcos
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12:34<Pikka>very nice... I saw the forum comments re shading ;)
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12:35<andythenorth>it’s a lot more fun to do it wrong
12:35<andythenorth>I am going to do ships wrong too
12:35<andythenorth>much faster
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12:35<Pikka>I came to the same conclusion before I started the 32bpp ones... the "pineapple" F units were just mirror shaded. much, much faster.
12:36<Pikka>and you can just draw the shapes once and nicely, without having to try to make them look good with a second shading ;)
12:36<andythenorth>I just draw the light side, then flip, and make everything one shade darker, except the nose :P
12:36<andythenorth>which goes one shade lighter
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12:49<V453000>I think I just drew a new signal concept :>
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12:50<Monkey_>what concept would that be?
12:50<Monkey_>led signals? :D
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12:53<V453000>just signals for BRIX
12:53<Monkey_>v453000 , arn't you the one who developed NUTS
12:54<Monkey_>sweet, big fan :D
12:54<andythenorth>Pikka: also what ho?
12:54<V453000>nice :) preparing new train set now :P different from NUTS, but also super functional
12:54<Pikka>what ho here: back to uni next week, politicing, and job hunting even though I already have a job. :)
12:55<V453000>arguably even better
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12:55<Pikka>V453000, I found 32bpp signals a pain
12:55<V453000>cause they are
12:55<Monkey__>damn lost connectiong
12:55<Monkey__>i was asking
12:55<Monkey__>what is the difference with the new train set? :D
12:55<Pikka>I couldn't get them both "realistic" and easily visible...
12:56<V453000>everything Monkey__ :)
12:56<V453000>Pikka: yeah the idea is to make them not realistic :P
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12:56<Monkey__>give me a taste :D
12:56<Pikka>that is of course an option, and your usual one :P
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12:56<V453000>well it is mostly top secret so far, but it will be just a very little amount of extremely interesting engines, which will have WAY bigger possibilities of variety than NUTS
12:57<V453000>it will look completely unique
12:57<Monkey__>:D how long do we have to wait for the showcase?
12:57<V453000>idk, however long it takes :) probably not super long though
12:57<V453000>I have like half of the engine models done
12:57<V453000>wagons to add
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12:58<Monkey__>sweeet, BRix is the new pack?
12:58<V453000>coding won't be simple so it will also take some time
12:58<V453000>BRIX is new graphics for everything, land, trees, tracks, signals, and some other details
12:58<V453000>the new train set will be called PART
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12:59<Monkey__>PART won't have new graphics? or do BRIX and PART work together
13:00<V453000>BRIX replaces landscape/tracks
13:00<V453000>PART is a train set
13:00<V453000>both have their own unique graphics
13:00<@Alberth>TRAP would be a nicer name :p
13:00<Monkey__>alright then, nothing to do but wait then :D
13:01<Monkey__>and enjoy NUTS, prefer it way over all the other train sets i've seen to date
13:01<@Alberth>tried pine apple and iron horse?
13:01<Monkey__>i'm sure the new stuff is going to be awesome:D
13:01<V453000>well NUTS could have better graphics, but the gameplay is great
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13:03<Monkey__>i've seen pineapple, never tried it, have not seen iron horse
13:03<V453000>if you are looking for the amount of choices and options NUTS gives you, you won't find it there :P
13:03<Monkey__>haha yeah i can see those are small sets
13:03<V453000>but they are sets which are small but work
13:04<Monkey__>i like my options and my art to go with my options
13:04<V453000>apparently sets which work at all are immediately called gameplay oriented =D
13:04<Monkey__>colors were the first thing that got me hooked to NUTS
13:04<Monkey__>it's a massive quality of life improvement for my braincells
13:07<V453000>see pm :P
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13:40<_johannes>how do you link an image in the forums?
13:40<_johannes>I don't want to upload it, but embed it via url
13:42<@Alberth>that's not really recommended as linked images tend to disappear
13:43<_johannes>ah, ok
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27511 /trunk/src/lang (esperanto.txt japanese.txt) (2016-02-24 19:45:38 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>japanese: 4 changes by nex259
13:45<@DorpsGek>esperanto: 4 changes by polluks
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14:05<andythenorth>V453000: can’t remember if I showed you this
14:05<andythenorth>painted stuff in an abstract landscape
14:05<V453000>I read can't remember if I showed you tits
14:06<V453000>but no you didn't
14:06<andythenorth>this only reflects the state of your mind
14:06<andythenorth>btw, men can’t breast feed, but babies will try anyway
14:07<V453000>XD yes I know, someone already told me
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>babies don't care bout your stinking societal gender differences!
14:08<andythenorth>they do when they get no result
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so you shuffle the cards and get the wagons in that order?
14:09<andythenorth>yeah, shunting puzzle
14:09<andythenorth>but it was the black background that reminds me of BRIX
14:09<andythenorth>detailed track in undetailed landscape
14:09<andythenorth>good staging
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14:27<Monkey__>in theory, men can breastfeed. Male breasts have milk ducts, and some mammary tissue. They also have oxytocin and prolactin, the hormones responsible for milk production. There have been reports of men who were able to produce milk through extensive breast and nipple stimulation, but no one knows whether the milk was of the same composition or quality as the kind women produce
14:27<Monkey__>now it is known, we shall put an end to that debate once and for all eh
14:28<Monkey__>rip google search history
14:33<frosch123>Monkey__: are men allowed to breastfeed in public?
14:34<Ketsuban>what did I walk in on
14:34<andythenorth>ha V453000 these are fricking awesome
14:35<V453000>according to gender equality, men should be allowed to breast feed in public
14:35<andythenorth>“every train is compressed to 6cm, regardless of RL length"
14:35<V453000>andythenorth: sick :D
14:35<sim-al2>For reference, those real JR carriages are ~20m long
14:35<andythenorth>chibi trains
14:36<Monkey__>i don't know frsoch123, i don't run the government :D
14:36<Monkey__>well men can go topless, i don't see a problem with breastfeeding in public
14:37<andythenorth>becomes this
14:37*andythenorth is tempted to make a roster where all is 4/8 or 8/8
14:37<Monkey__>that train had a baby?
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14:47<@Alberth>nuts made everything equally long :)
14:48<andythenorth>if all trains of a certain type go at same speed
14:48<andythenorth>no point in having mail cars?
14:49<andythenorth>just use box car
14:49<@Alberth>1st class mail does like to travel comfortable :p
14:50<V453000>my new train set will have everything 4/8
14:50<V453000>having it consistent is just great and removes confusion for the player
14:51<andythenorth>I am +0.5 to 4/8 or 8/8 lengths
14:51<andythenorth>it’s just a bit too tidy though
14:51<andythenorth>and I want to draw stuff that don’t fit that :P
14:51<Monkey__>goodnight folks! :D
14:51<andythenorth>roster: ‘chibi’
14:52<@Alberth>add "miscellaneous" roster :)
14:52<V453000>tidy is good
14:53<V453000>well 6/8 probably isn't a disaster if you like articulate them or something
14:55<V453000>new brix signals wip :D
14:56<V453000>hm from this side combo and entry aren't distinguishable at the top left
14:56<V453000>will solve
14:58<@Alberth>that what I was looking at too :)
14:58<V453000>some pointers or stripe will fix it
14:59<@Alberth>on the down slope behind the depot, there is some yellow leaking into the foundation?
14:59<V453000>the joy of semi-transparent sprites
14:59<V453000>probably caused by some hole between ground and foundation
14:59<V453000>I need to do x4 foundations to fix it
15:00<@Alberth>for some reason these signals look a lot clearer than the previous one
15:00<@Alberth>I think the front is more easily found
15:01<V453000>the some reason is they are 3 times taller :P
15:01<V453000>simply more space
15:01<@Alberth>no, I have that with the nuts signals too, I don't see front or back there
15:02<@Alberth>so I just use plain electric signals with nuts :)
15:03<@Alberth>I do feel you must have made it systematic, and I am just missing it, though :)
15:05<V453000>well, there are certainly things to improve, but in general i like the triangle concept
15:05<V453000>stuff visible from all sides
15:07<supermop>V453000: i liked the little cube signals
15:08<V453000>me too, but at x1 they are totally unrecognizable
15:08<V453000>at x2 hardly
15:08<V453000>at x4 not excellent either
15:09<V453000>and I want it to be playable, so clarity is top priority
15:09<andythenorth>track should show the signal :P
15:09<andythenorth>redesign it all
15:09<supermop>i dont think debugging signals at 1x is needed
15:09<andythenorth>colour the track
15:09<V453000>it is supermop
15:09<V453000>absolutely is
15:09*andythenorth says words
15:10<V453000>signals have critical importance to how tracks behave
15:10<V453000>being able to tell which is which is the most important job of signals
15:12<@Alberth>andy: track colour is already reserved for PURR :p
15:12<V453000>well most importantly signals have positions defined by the game kind of
15:12<V453000>so not much creativity there :P
15:15*andythenorth needs a gopher
15:15<andythenorth>looking for African box cars
15:15<andythenorth>can’t find much
15:15<andythenorth>they’re all import, but from Europe, China, India, or USA?
15:15<andythenorth>I need 5 in total, different gauges and generations
15:16<andythenorth>supermop has google skills…? o_O
15:16*andythenorth bored of looking
15:16<andythenorth>I found some in Gabon that look unusual
15:17<andythenorth>need some more
15:17<V453000>andythenorth is bored to look shit up
15:17<andythenorth>I don’t have ‘invent it’ in me :)
15:17<andythenorth>I need something RL to adapt
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15:21<_johannes>hey, if someone wants to discuss it (suggestion for realistic train turnaround):
15:21<supermop>what are you looking for andythenorth ?
15:22<andythenorth>stuff like this
15:22<andythenorth>just to get ideas
15:22<andythenorth>I have 3 out of 5 covered tbh
15:22<andythenorth>I was hoping to find some really big ones, like US highcube
15:23<andythenorth>like silly big
15:23<andythenorth>but most of the african ones look like standard euro box cars
15:24<andythenorth>V453000: you have to use the coloured bases for all the presignal crap?
15:24<V453000>have to is a strong word but I think it makes them distinguishable, and suggest what they do
15:24<andythenorth>can you bed them into rail base?
15:25<V453000>though tbh the suggest what they do just got reduced for clarity
15:25<andythenorth>they look dissociated
15:25<V453000>I will try but I don't think I can do it
15:25<andythenorth>like functionally, they look strong, (I don’t rally look at signals much anwyay)
15:25<V453000>with some care, they might work
15:25<andythenorth>but they are floating away from track
15:25<V453000>ie, they are used for slopes as well as for flat
15:25<V453000>but some wire might work
15:25<andythenorth>eh ok
15:26<andythenorth>put em on a stick or something
15:26<andythenorth>like the tree base
15:26<andythenorth>ha ha, signal trees
15:26<V453000>yeah I will see what can be done about it
15:26<andythenorth>there is a thin tree in your screenshot, would make a great signal
15:26<V453000>point is, more space = clarity, on a stick = nicer
15:26<andythenorth>the leaf shaped one
15:27<andythenorth>you have to show the direction I guess
15:27<andythenorth>shame you can’t just colour the whole upper part green / red
15:27<andythenorth>signals have too much function :x
15:27<V453000>almost can but ugly
15:27<V453000>the green/red will be more visible on the top and sides
15:28<V453000>atm at x1 you can't really see it
15:28<andythenorth>and you can’t have a yeti doing this?
15:29<V453000>omg XD
15:29<V453000>that is semaphore signals right there
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15:29<V453000>will be done andythenorth
15:30<V453000>no going back now
15:31<V453000>thanks >:]
15:32<andythenorth>there was one in the screenie, on the left, in a hard hat
15:32<andythenorth>gave idea
15:32<V453000>I wonder how didn't I think of that
15:32<V453000>perfect candidate
15:42<andythenorth>if I was doing colour light signals, I’d do something like a searchlight signal
15:42<andythenorth>but oversized, and stubby
15:42<andythenorth>with the light glow over-emphasised
15:43<V453000>yeah but you can't see that from behind/sides hardly
15:43<V453000>and volumetric light going out of it is ugly imo
15:44<V453000>I think I will go with big triangular slabs + yeti signals
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15:46<andythenorth>I guess light coming through back of signal is stupid
15:46*andythenorth rules that out
15:47<V453000>signals need to be stupid in order to work :D
15:47<V453000>simple as that
15:47<V453000>a LED goign all around most of the signal with triangular ends isn't any less stupid :P
15:47<V453000>moar signolz later
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16:17<@Alberth>from box-ish engines to box-ish wagons?
16:17<andythenorth>easy drawing :)
16:17<andythenorth>the work is in making them look nice
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16:22<andythenorth>does the TTD palette include ‘reflective’ o_O
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16:35<andythenorth>oh dear
16:35<andythenorth>I upset alberth :(
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16:44<supermop>i've had steam installed on a computer for 11 or 12 years now, but i don't think i've used it in 4-5 years
16:45<supermop>it's just sitting there quietly taking a little ram and some disk space
16:50<andythenorth>how else will the NSA get in to your laptop?
16:58<supermop>i feel like i should get more service from the nsa for my tax dollars
16:58<supermop>like free tech support
17:01<supermop>need new wellies here
17:01<supermop>mine are leaking
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19:11<drac_boy>correct me if I'm wrong but usually if a building is more than 1x1 tile then its drawn in separate chunks?
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19:27<drac_boy>wb supercheese
19:27<Supercheese>Don't worry, I'll be idling like a champ
19:28<drac_boy>very cheesy :p
19:30<Supercheese>Always cheesy
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22:16<supermop>all these wedding officiants' websites are so cheesy
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 25 00:00:15 2016