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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-02-25

---Logopened Thu Feb 25 00:00:15 2016
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03:43<rah>andythenorth: I notice your Virgin Media address is at Aztec West; are you in Bristol?
03:43<andythenorth>no comment :)
03:44<rah>I'm from Bristol
03:44<rah>in fact, I'm going there this weekend
03:44<rah>small world
03:44<andythenorth>Microprose used to be based in Bristol, and TTD was launched from here
03:45<andythenorth>check the vehicles
03:45<andythenorth>“Yate Hagan"
03:45<rah>ah :-)
03:45<rah>I had friend who used to work for Microprose
03:45<rah>I was a game tester
03:46<rah>err.. s/I was/he was/
03:46<rah>that's an odd freudian-esque slip
03:46<andythenorth>the man who fixed my windows used to work for Microprose
03:46<andythenorth>small world
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05:29<MonkeyDrone>Good afternoon folks!
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05:40<V453000>tonight we dine in hell?
06:09*andythenorth makes pixels
06:18<V453000>great enough :)
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08:51<andythenorth>V453000: open wagons are boring
08:51<andythenorth>just boxes
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08:51<andythenorth>rest of this roster came easy :P
08:52<andythenorth>also open wagons need loads
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08:52<V453000>you mean closed wagons are boring?
08:53<V453000>open wagons with visible cargo = win ... admittedly drawing all of the cargoes is serious hell
08:54<V453000>also, I have to say that even boxcars have some magic to them .... but they need to be recognizable at least, and if you can see if they are full/empty, that is a bonus
08:54<V453000>I kind of miss boxcars in NUTS, my new train set will definitely carry some cargoes in boxcars
08:54<V453000>just cause more wagon variety
08:54<andythenorth>also no loads
08:55<andythenorth>just opening doors at stations
08:55<V453000>yes, but that would make them all look the same
08:55<andythenorth>change colour and such
08:55<V453000>I will at least colour code them or add some other details which make them visible which cargo they carry
08:55<V453000>even if it isn't the cargo itself
08:57<V453000>also, car carriers
08:57<V453000>various tankers, ..
08:58<andythenorth>also important:
08:58<andythenorth>heavy item car
08:59<V453000>yeah but with 4/8 that won't work great
08:59<andythenorth>do it 16/8
08:59<andythenorth>go big :P
08:59<andythenorth>when are you sending me preview image of your trainz?
09:00<V453000>well, the high capacity caro image could do that yes
09:00<V453000>when the whole project is done
09:00<V453000>no sooner :)
09:00<V453000>in a couple months I believe
09:00<andythenorth>can haz exclusive preview :P
09:00<V453000>no, no exclusive previews this time
09:00<V453000>this will be seriously wicked sick
09:01<V453000>thee pants would not be browned if you behold the sight of a work in progress
09:01<V453000>how ever when you witness the full scale wtf at once, they might
09:03<V453000>one day I will have mental breakdown and break to the urge of wanting to show my shit to everybody, but I will try to control myself :P
09:03<V453000>for now
09:17<V453000>my BRIX trello is starting to look quite good :)
09:17<V453000>lots of tasks done
09:17<V453000>still shitload remaining, but progress is visible
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09:33<V453000>a server can run many years beyond 2050?
09:33<Monkey__>can't openttd end of game be circumvented?
09:34<V453000>our servers very often run to years like 2500
09:34<Monkey__>yeah i've seen servers running beyond endless time
09:34<andythenorth>peter1138 :o
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09:34<Monkey__>but i keep reading that game ends 2050 , let me confirm something
09:34<V453000>Monkey__: maybe on reddit servers
09:35<peter1138>is openttd 2 done yet?
09:35<V453000>in 2050 clients get company stats table, but upon clicking they can play on
09:35<andythenorth>it’s similar to OpenTTD 1, but with more translations
09:35<Monkey__>they seem to be loaded games
09:35<V453000>well loading a savegame is the best way to make a map
09:36<Monkey__>v453000, well i had the privleged of being on a vanilla server that hit 2051 and the thing popped up and we all got disocnnected
09:36<V453000>you prepare map locally, upload to server
09:36<V453000>yes there is some reset setting Monkey__
09:36<V453000>I haven't touched these settings in years so I don't remember their names, sorry
09:36<Monkey__>as in server side reset settings?
09:36<V453000>but you totally certainly can disable them, I would even say the default is that the game runs forever
09:37<Monkey__>let me go over the config once more
09:41<V453000>there you go :)
09:41<peter1138>that's from an ancient config though
09:42<peter1138>someobody probably renamed it at some point
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09:42<Monkey__>ooooh, let me ctrl+F
09:42<Monkey__>ah yes, it's at 0 == disabled i believe
09:43<V453000>then your server shouldn't restart itself
09:43<Monkey__>this time join stuff is in seconds?
09:43<Monkey__>time to open server wiki
09:44<Monkey__>i played factorio
09:44<Monkey__>it was ARK all over again
09:44<Monkey__>that dino game
09:45<V453000>never seen trhat
09:45<V453000>I see some crafting survival game I guess
09:45<Monkey__>you wake up on a map, dinosaurs running around, you chop wood, find resources, build living quarters to keep yourself same, tame them dinos and ride them around
09:45<V453000>factorio isn't as much about survival as about building complex factories :)
09:45<Monkey__>well i only had time to play 10 mins of it, still haven't gone through the tutorial part, i'll have a go at it soon enough
09:46<Monkey__>4 hours to make a decision, yargh
09:46<V453000>yeah it kind of needs hours to actually try all the stuff XD
09:47<Monkey__>ah well, bought it. Hit or miss, time will tell :D
09:48<V453000>:) have fun
09:49<Eddi|zuHause><V453000> one day I will have mental breakdown <-- wait, what's the state you are in NOW? :p
09:49<V453000>good question
09:49<Monkey__>ah shit, my brother's ISP license got revoked by the governing authority, drama time
09:51<Monkey__>yeah, their CEO was money laundering
09:51<Monkey__>huge ass case going on here, they had a warning last week to turn over some stuff
09:51<Monkey__>looks like the management failed, damn
09:52<V453000>shit on humans
09:54<Monkey__>aye, ok i will move now, i'll be back in an hour, ty for the help. heading out to do some grocery shopping and then coffee shop to meet some friends to do some local RA2 gaming
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09:55<Wolf01>mmh, could the CC license be applied to a "thing" which gives an output? And in this case, which license has the output? I know the GPL doesn't give rights over the output to the creator of "thing"
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09:58<Eddi|zuHause>a) yes, and b) that depends heavily on the nature of the output
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>if the output is constructed from the user's input, it would not be covered by the license, it the output is constructed from library data, then it would be covered
10:02<Wolf01>even if the output is a projection of the library data?
10:02<Wolf01>I mean, there's a form protected by CC which casts a shadow, is the shadow protected by CC?
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>you're being too vague.
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10:06<Wolf01>for example, a CC cad file is the file (the instructions on how to recreate a model) protected or the phisical result of those instructions?
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10:10<Eddi|zuHause>usually both
10:11<drac_boy>hi eddi :) how doing atm
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10:24<drac_boy>sim-a12 the trainchat :p
10:31<@planetmaker>Wolf01, you can CC any work. Which means derivative works have to credit you - which covers also a shadow cast by an object you created in a 3D modeller.
10:31<@planetmaker>Wolf01, except when your object is a sphere or cube, thus nothing original
10:31<drac_boy>either way heres one more for you sim-a12 thats no museum, its a real commuter train :->
10:31<Wolf01>np, not my problem, I only release in CC0
10:31<peter1138>al2 isn't a12
10:32<Wolf01>but other ones may have problems
10:41<Wolf01>mmh train fever update... the last one?
10:45<Wolf01>height map support
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10:52<MonkeyDrone>guess who's back, back again :D
10:52<MonkeyDrone>had to make a pit stop and try out a new place with their shawarmas
10:52<MonkeyDrone>good stuff they had, reasonably priced too, aww yyiiss
10:52<MonkeyDrone>Monkey, who else maaaan
10:52<Wolf01>don't know him, sorry
10:53<MonkeyDrone>it's okay, when i come to collect your soul. You shall know what a monkey is!
10:53<Wolf01>don't have a soul, sorry
10:54<MonkeyDrone>damn hippies
10:54<MonkeyDrone>should have kept the gingers away from the hippies
10:54<Wolf01>not a hippie, I'm a computer program... mer
10:57<MonkeyDrone>ah, you are in luck then. You have a soul, but it's okay, i am no longer interested
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11:02<MonkeyDrone>pause on join isn't that necessary is it
11:03<V453000>only for big maps / very advanced games
11:03<MonkeyDrone>so my 1k*1k nuts,yeti,rawr server won't need pause?
11:04<V453000>1k x 1k is huge
11:04<V453000>512x512 is enough, trust me
11:04<MonkeyDrone>enough for 15 people?
11:04<V453000>mostly yes
11:04<V453000>1024x512 if it isn't
11:04<V453000>but 1k x 1k is just insane
11:05<V453000>also if you are starting a server that people don't know, it isn't very likely you will fill it quickly
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11:05<V453000>especially with these newgrfs
11:05<MonkeyDrone>ok, i'll go with 512x512 and see how that works out, keeping in mind that i will probably do a reset per week
11:05<MonkeyDrone>true tthat
11:05<MonkeyDrone>i'm not expecting many people, but just getting the feel of what works for MP servers
11:06<MonkeyDrone>o7 Alberth
11:06<MonkeyDrone>working on settings of auto_clean companies
11:07<MonkeyDrone>unprotected 1 month, no vehicles 6 months,, protected i'm contemplating
11:07<V453000>don't remove protected companies
11:07<MonkeyDrone>when it says no activity, does it mean no user login to the company?
11:08<@planetmaker>and yeah, don't remove automatically protected companies
11:08<MonkeyDrone>ah ok, thats not what i want.
11:08<@planetmaker>leave that for you to do manually
11:08<MonkeyDrone>config done, ty :)
11:08<MonkeyDrone>autoclean_unprotected = 1
11:08<MonkeyDrone>autoclean_protected = 0
11:08<MonkeyDrone>autoclean_novehicles = 6
11:09<MonkeyDrone>now wher are my sticky notes
11:09<MonkeyDrone>i swear these windows sticky notes gets out of hand real fast
11:09<@Alberth>attached to your fore head?
11:10<MonkeyDrone>digital sticky notes :D
11:10<V453000>Alberth: remember the time when I was complaining that my BRIX trello tasklist is infinitely long?
11:10<V453000>it isn't that long anymore :) feels good
11:10<V453000>task by task
11:10<@Alberth>yay! :)
11:11<MonkeyDrone>why is rawr 0.0.1? :D no updates done to it once it was released?
11:11<@Alberth>that's the nice thing about lists of todo, they get shorter when working on them
11:11<andythenorth>not always
11:11<V453000>yep MonkeyDrone, I don't like it
11:11<andythenorth>mine often get longer :(
11:11<MonkeyDrone>you guys have it good, my todo list just gets longer
11:11<andythenorth>todo: delete stuff
11:11<@Alberth>todo: delete todo
11:12<MonkeyDrone>lol, yes, sometimes you have to mark things off it that yo know will never happen. You just stare at the ground in disappointment of yourself and then move on as soon as you look away from the ground
11:12<@Alberth>MonkeyDrone: just make a single text file for everything, and search it for things
11:13<MonkeyDrone>i don't mind if these stickies get deleted, they never have anything crucial and once it's gone i've less to worry about :D
11:13<@Alberth>never make them in the first place? :p
11:13<MonkeyDrone>can't not make them, then people ask about things I have no memory of, only way to recall things xD
11:14<@Alberth>copy it into the cfg, saved
11:14<MonkeyDrone>we are still talking about the same thing yeah? xD
11:15<MonkeyDrone>or shall i chalk that up to a really bad joke xD
11:15<@Alberth>think so
11:15<MonkeyDrone>not bad, but lame :D
11:15<@Alberth>I wasn't joking
11:15<MonkeyDrone>shit, you should go out more :D
11:16<@Alberth>just put things at the place where they belong, that's the easiest way to find it back
11:16<MonkeyDrone>yup, desktop, how i wish for one of these days for windows to hardcrash and lose data
11:17<MonkeyDrone>just need to sort out this join times timeout thing
11:18<V453000>solve when people are having problems
11:18<V453000>just guessing the values probably won't end up final anyway
11:18<MonkeyDrone>aye, i still need to something basic
11:18<MonkeyDrone>i'm gonna take it from a 1Mbps user and calculate based on that
11:19<MonkeyDrone>a lot of us are dreams away from fiber, cable of sorts
11:19<@Alberth>woow V, a trello filled with structure and plans!
11:19<MonkeyDrone>haha, yeah i have been looking at it. Trello seems like a very useful software
11:20<MonkeyDrone>now i can stalk V's wip
11:20<@Alberth>nah, just an issue tracker, but public
11:20<MonkeyDrone>noooooooooo, you killed my dreams, i hope you know that
11:21<@Alberth>oops, sorry
11:21<MonkeyDrone>it's okay, just sleep with one eye open tonight :)
11:21<MonkeyDrone>i don't hold grudges :D
11:22<V453000>? :)
11:22<MonkeyDrone>so soap is the admin thing to go with?
11:23<MonkeyDrone>lol, nothing, i was just being dramatic
11:23<V453000>it is basically the same as devzone issue tracker, but that imo gets messy quick
11:23<V453000>here shit is easy to see
11:23<@Alberth>it looks good, I agree
11:24<MonkeyDrone>i like the colors?
11:24<MonkeyDrone>never had a project that i worked on where i had issue trackers :D
11:24<MonkeyDrone>closest thing i've gotten to issue tracking is bitbucket
11:24<MonkeyDrone>when i did mods for L4D2, fun times...
11:24<V453000>you can even add pictures to the tasks and it makes them thumbnails to add to the colors
11:24<V453000>is great
11:25<V453000>I generally don't for openttd, but I could :)
11:25<@Alberth>getting a sort of overview would be useful
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11:26<MonkeyDrone>1/30th of a second == 1 tick in ottd
11:26<V453000>well, for outside people yes
11:26<V453000>but for me, I know what the issues are about
11:26<MonkeyDrone>time to crunch numbers
11:27<MonkeyDrone>whatever happened to numion download time calculator
11:27<MonkeyDrone>i used to use that website for a decade+
11:27<MonkeyDrone>and last year it just went down :(
11:28<Pici>wolfram alpha can do byte/time/bandwidth calculations iirc
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11:29<MonkeyDrone>this one works well for me, gives me all the small sizes
11:29<MonkeyDrone>2 minutes of downloading should be enough :D
11:30<MonkeyDrone>sweet, the default values are perfect
11:30<MonkeyDrone>a lot higher than what numbers i was crunching out.
11:31<V453000>make sure your train acceleration model is realistic
11:31<V453000>the default is original which is retardation^2
11:31<MonkeyDrone>hahahaha, yeah i went over your glorious wiki and set everything as stated :D
11:31<MonkeyDrone>4% hill climb penalty etc
11:32<MonkeyDrone>i believe it is ready for a full on run
11:32<V453000>the climb penalties aren't so important, but yes 3-5% just works
11:32<andythenorth>an open wagon is 8px x 24px
11:32<andythenorth>why so hard to draw :x
11:32<MonkeyDrone>it was at default 3, i turned it up to 4 :D
11:32<andythenorth>it’s a bix
11:32<andythenorth>box *
11:32<andythenorth>I’ve drawn 50 of them before ;P
11:32<MonkeyDrone>let me check andythenorth, i will get you your answer
11:34<MonkeyDrone>i asked jesus on
11:34<MonkeyDrone>Jesus Answers:
11:34<MonkeyDrone>"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
11:34<MonkeyDrone>- Matthew 5:10
11:34<MonkeyDrone>You asked:
11:34<MonkeyDrone>"why can't andythenorth not draw an open wagon that is 8x by 24px?"
11:34<MonkeyDrone>beats me, thing is cryptic
11:35<V453000>You asked: "the fuck is this shit" Jesus Answers: "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:10
11:35<MonkeyDrone>well looks like he's got the answer for all your questions
11:35<MonkeyDrone>ah fuck i just rememberd
11:36<MonkeyDrone>my brother's ISP company who's license just got revoked
11:36<MonkeyDrone>my internet is from them..............
11:39<@Alberth>study Matthew 5:10, the answer should be there
11:42<MonkeyDrone>ok 1k*1k map is huge, its emptly and already 1.4MB in size ...
11:43<V453000>btw a map without trees is smaller :P
11:43<MonkeyDrone>GRFs are loading up awesome, City builder also doing well :D
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11:43<MonkeyDrone>can't i reduce number of trees?
11:43<MonkeyDrone>dont' want it to look deserted
11:43<V453000>what point is citybuilder for a long game?
11:44<MonkeyDrone>adding some goals to aim for :D
11:44<MonkeyDrone>need bigger town/cities for more YETI workers. Work for it :D
11:45<MonkeyDrone>and it's nothing too hard that it's not achieveable
11:45<V453000>ok makes some sense :)
11:45<MonkeyDrone>keeping it pretty simple, don't want out of control growths with people running 5 stations in a circle and abusing the system all the time :P
11:46<V453000>oh yeah make sure you disable towns build their own roads
11:46<V453000>then only the towns that people take care of and expand themselves do grow
11:46<MonkeyDrone>saw a map, map overrun with huge cities, could barely spot any free spots for construction of infrastructure
11:46<V453000>-> you don't have the map cluttered with poinlessly huge towns after 200 years
11:46<MonkeyDrone>well towns on their own grow slow as hell right
11:47<MonkeyDrone>most don't really grow big do they?
11:47<V453000>depends on the setting, but even the slowest still grow, and after 200 years it becomes a lot
11:47<MonkeyDrone>alright then, i'll disable self town growth
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11:48<V453000>I strongly recommend to not allow towns build their own roads - the road growing mechanism is dumb anyway, so if a player wants to care about their town, it is just counterproductive
11:49<MonkeyDrone>allow_town_roads = false
11:49<MonkeyDrone>I will heed to your wisdom :D
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11:54<MonkeyDrone>wow , no trees on map generation resulted in 1MB less , map is now 500KB
11:54<@Alberth>sounds like too big
11:55<MonkeyDrone>as soon as i figure out how to reduce size of map generation through config, i'll hook it to 512/512
11:55<MonkeyDrone>ah original tree palcement is better than openttd 'improved' algorithm
11:56<MonkeyDrone>that uniform trees acrosss the world irks me
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11:57<@Alberth>map_x = 9
11:57<@Alberth>map_y = 9 <-- actual map size is 2**9 x 2**9
11:57<MonkeyDrone>haha, took too long to join server x.x i guess numbers are getting doubled
11:58<MonkeyDrone>ah ok ty Alberth :)
11:58<MonkeyDrone>ok friend is here
11:58<MonkeyDrone>RA2 gaming time
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12:03<MonkeyDrone>done, 512x512, small map size, trees no longer an issue on filesize
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12:07<MonkeyDrone>350KB filesize now :D sweeet
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12:45<andythenorth>so who wants to try new Horse? o_O
12:45<andythenorth>it only has 3 engines :P
12:47<@Alberth>only 3???
12:47<@Alberth>I heard numbers of 9 diesels alone, yesterday :)
12:48<V453000>the modern roster reducing movement is on apparently
12:49<Wolf01>you should make more little grfs like this, 1 steam 1 diesel 1 electric or such
12:50<Wolf01>even 3 steam or 3 diesel or 3 electric
12:50<V453000>mess much
12:51<Wolf01>maybe tiered or specific for cargo / passengers, so one could load only what he need
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12:51<Wolf01>at least this was my idea, but I would put only one engine or a set of wagons per grf
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12:56<andythenorth>Alberth: only 3 right now :)
12:56<andythenorth>owing to drawing
12:56<andythenorth>ideal time to play for someone who likes few engines
13:01<andythenorth>one more engine to add there
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13:01<andythenorth>I have not added a caboose :P
13:01<andythenorth>maybe I should
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13:04<@Alberth>doesn't look minimalistic :p
13:04<andythenorth>well :)
13:04<andythenorth>wagons are needed, eh?
13:06*andythenorth must draw a bit more
13:09<andythenorth>caboose or not to caboose?
13:10<Wolf01>engines require it?
13:12<andythenorth>eye candy only
13:12<@Alberth>but euhm, you have every wagon twice
13:12<andythenorth>realism says “no” but realism meh
13:12<@Alberth>decorative caboose is fine, imho
13:13<andythenorth>Alberth: w.r.t. to twice, I’m not trying to be minimalist :D
13:13<andythenorth>“only 3” = unfinished :P
13:13<andythenorth>not goal
13:13<@Alberth>ah, everything makes sense then :)
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13:31<Wolf01>is it possible to make an articulated double headed engine?
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13:38<Eddi|zuHause>spec would be pretty simple, actually. "dual headed" flag should be set for the first part of the lead vehicle, and the first part of the end vehicle, not set for any other parts
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>so other vehicles would be inserted right before the second part with the "dual headed" flag
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27512 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2016-02-25 19:45:36 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish: 6 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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13:51<Ketsuban>andythenorth: maybe the cabeese could give a small boost to reliability, so there's a small incentive to use them but it's still perfectly okay to go without.
13:52<Ketsuban>Though speaking personally, if using a caboose will make the numbers rounder (e.g. adding the missing 0.3 from my length-6 train) then that'd probably be enough to get me to use them. :V
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13:52<andythenorth>cabeese are eye candy only :)
13:59<andythenorth>this caboose is terrible :(
13:59<andythenorth>it’s like I’ve never learnt to draw pixels :(
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14:08<V453000>factorio on steam now :>
14:17<@Alberth>/me pulls the cord for a full steam whistle
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14:37<andythenorth>I have been on a roll for about a week, drawing pixels
14:38<andythenorth>and now I can’t draw a simple caboose :P
14:40<frosch123>do caboose belong into iron llama?
14:41<frosch123>only weird countries have those
14:42<andythenorth>plural of cabeese :P
14:43<andythenorth>Iron Wookie
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14:49<andythenorth>same to you :P
14:54<andythenorth>one more engine
14:54<andythenorth>will I draw some sqaure thing with 2 cabs?
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15:14<MonkeyDrone>evening folks
15:26<andythenorth>too similar to the others?
15:36<andythenorth>I should do this one
15:36<andythenorth>center-cab, ugly :P
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16:01<Wolf01> I'm wondering if is possible to draw this for ottd without making it looking like a cartoon
16:02<andythenorth>although the cartoon aspect is not a bad thing
16:02<andythenorth>there is something incredibly audacious about that, as though size has no limits
16:06<Wolf01>I would like to draw a little grf with the C&O big engines, I like the colours and how big they are
16:07<Wolf01>the other ones will be the L1 and the H8 (this one will be black)
16:09<andythenorth>do you want the NARS 2 spritesheet to look at?
16:09<andythenorth>I don’t think Dan will mind
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>OTTD of course has notorious problems with big vehicles
16:10<Wolf01>nah, I'm trying with voxels now, just to see how it might look
16:14<andythenorth>you would need to articulate them
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 26 00:00:17 2016