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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-03-06

---Logopened Sun Mar 06 00:00:30 2016
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01:58<andythenorth>o/
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02:19<V453000>heyoze
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02:34<_johannes>hi
02:36<V453000>sup yo
02:44<_johannes>is it true that, regardless of how many newgrfs you've loaded for your game, the maximal amount of cargo types is 32?
02:44<V453000>migh be, ask andythenorth :)
02:45<_johannes>andythenorth ? :)
02:48<andythenorth>32
02:48<andythenorth>iirc, cargos get redefined subject to grf order
02:48<andythenorth>with sometimes weird effects
02:48<_johannes>what happens if you have more than 32 cargotypes, counting all newgrfs together?
02:49<andythenorth>some will be over-written
02:50<andythenorth>there are 32 slots with numeric IDs
02:50<andythenorth>if your grf puts coal in 1, and mine puts fish there
02:50<andythenorth>one cargo will be over-written
02:50<_johannes>lol
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03:09<V453000>ah yeah true
03:10*V453000 remembers YETI making towns produce livestock :>
03:10<V453000>is actually realistic.
03:10<V453000>btw andythenorth I ended up re-modelling the whole train XD
03:11<V453000>scaling borkd, concept improved
03:13<V453000>also, chibby --
03:18<andythenorth>pictures or didn’t happen :P
03:18*andythenorth is going to trick V453000 into a preview
03:18<andythenorth>and…then the set will die because you get bored of it :D
03:22<andythenorth>hmm
03:22<andythenorth>April 1 gets ever closer :(
03:25<V453000>oh god point :D
03:26<V453000>won't make it in 1m :)
03:26<V453000>if I am redoing it, no preview :P
03:27<V453000>it won't die; it would be more likely if I had continued with a solution I am not convinced about
03:28*andythenorth must finish FIRS 2
03:28<andythenorth>or wait another year
03:28<V453000>XD
03:30<V453000>btw my train set will use zero can_attach_wagons
03:30<V453000>user friendly :)
03:33<andythenorth>what does can_attach_wagons do?
03:34<V453000>restrict which engines can haul which wagon, and spit errors in case they are incompatible
03:34<andythenorth>why would that be good ever? :)
03:35<V453000>express vs freight etc
03:35<V453000>nuts is full of it
03:35<V453000>each class has own wagons
03:35<V453000>is annoying feature
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03:41<andythenorth>sounds BAD :)
03:41<V453000>but if you want each class to have it's own wagons with it's own benefits, it is understandable way ... also makes sense in the way that wagons don't totally switch appearance/performance when you attach them to different class
03:41<V453000>for new users, it is very bad
03:41<V453000>but if done systematically like NUTS, you learn it quickly
03:41<V453000>still, shitload of restrictions ain't helpful
03:42<V453000>I will just use switches to change graphics and performance when necessary now
03:42<V453000>put anything to anything
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04:28*andythenorth must make FIRS eh
04:30<_johannes>do we have a function that converts CargoLabels int const char* strings or std::strings?
04:31<_johannes>I know it's easily done, but if there's a function, I'd like to use it
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04:41<_johannes>nvm, solved
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05:26<andythenorth>ships annoy me so much
05:26*andythenorth is not even playing, just found some screenshots of FISH development
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08:17<_johannes>Hmm my openttd does not find opensfx anymore
08:17<_johannes>though it's installed via package manager
08:17<_johannes>oh nvm after restarting it found it oO
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08:35<@Alberth>sounds fishy
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09:26<drac_boy>hi
09:27<drac_boy>little question for anyone around europe area....did they ever use turntables on early diesel locomotives or it was probably more or less just an american thing?
09:32<drac_boy>heres an american one just for comparison sake heh http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirrphotos/oyster%20bay/RS1-462-TTable-OBay-1950.jpg
09:48<@Alberth>/me wonders how the engine kind is related to storing many engine in one building
09:48<@Alberth>*engines
09:49<drac_boy>alberth, half of the times its not about storing :)
09:49<@Alberth>I can settle for the other half :p
09:50<drac_boy>even dual-control units still went through turntables sometimes, I dunno why but suspect its probably to do with wanting a certain hood length on return trips
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09:52<@Alberth>tbh I wouldn't expect train handling operations to change because someone invented a new power system
09:53<@Alberth>but I don't know about the use of turn tables
09:53<@Alberth>I have seen them here, so they were either invented or imported here :)
09:54<@Alberth>s/here/Europe/g
09:54<drac_boy>mind you if you wanted storing then you're happy to look at this modern photo :P https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e0/17/e7/e017e7778afd819c83a0e6a500e5cb84.jpg
09:55<drac_boy>looks like it used to be pre-csx steam if that roundhouse is indeed an old building
09:56<@Alberth>it wouldn't make sense to build it there if the tracks were planned as they are now :)
09:57<drac_boy>yeah
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09:57<drac_boy>on the other hand both britian and europe had a few of these unusual thing which were not exactly turntables but still behave partially like one tho http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_08_2012/post-6867-0-77554500-1346354446.jpg
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09:57<drac_boy>talk about saving several many feet of track space requirement by compressing the switchback track and turnout into a short length
09:58<@Alberth>fun thing :)
09:58<drac_boy>yep
09:59<drac_boy>even Noch has one working model for HO scale trains too ;)
09:59<drac_boy>(or its easy to scratch your own together heh)
09:59<+glx>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundhouse <-- used for storage at least
10:02<drac_boy>alberth but either way if we want to ramble on some more how about transfer tables?? can't turn anything around but they at least can move multiply tracks in the small space of just one or two locomotives long :p https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZeythCFz9RU/maxresdefault.jpg
10:02<drac_boy>although I know a few existed at wagon works too (long enough for one new wagon plus a tiny tractor shunter)
10:05<@Alberth>nah, those cheat :p
10:06<drac_boy>;)
10:07<@Alberth>nice link glx
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10:26<drac_boy>going off for now so have fun alberth :) and hey don't look for too many locomotives? hehe
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12:01<@Alberth>o/
12:01<andythenorth>o/
12:03<V453000>andythenorth: today I thought about 2 more features that will be awesome and you personally will like. :P it is happenin
12:06<@Alberth>\o/ awesome features!
12:06<andythenorth>V453000: is it this? http://www.skygo.co.nz/content_providers/walt_disney_aust_nz_nrfr/images/single/mickey_mouse_clubhouse_ps%20(moved)%20(moved)%20(moved)/files/6334/MickeyMouseClubhouse-S2-PS.jpg
12:06<@Alberth>self-expanding tracks? :)
12:07<V453000>NO
12:07<V453000>better
12:09<@Alberth>awesome++ ?
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12:15<V453000>+++
12:16<V453000>basically I found ways how to do some of NUTS mechanics in a sensible way that doesn't look WTF
12:16<V453000>one could ALMOST say realistic!
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12:19<@Alberth>:O
12:20<@Alberth>V going realistic :D
12:20<Supercheese>Inconceivable!
12:21<@Alberth>I guess things change when you get a regular job :p
12:28<andythenorth>V453000: ‘ALMOST’
12:28<andythenorth>like the sun is a bit hot
12:28<andythenorth>almost warm
12:28<Supercheese>balmy, really
12:28<V453000>Alberth: my last job was definitely a lot more regular than the current one :)
12:29<Supercheese>Now instead of fixing bugs, he's rendering them ;)
12:32<V453000>and realism x sensibility aren't really the same thing either ;P
12:32*andythenorth wonders how high (z index) industries can be
12:34<V453000>as fuck
12:34<V453000>sufficient answer? :D
12:34<V453000>some yeti stuff is probably pretty tall
12:36*andythenorth is trying to achieve maximum realistic wtf
12:36<Supercheese>if you want maximum wtf to be realistic, just get the government involved
12:36<andythenorth>basically this, rearranged to TTD style and tiles http://www.doyoubuzz.com/var/f/IL/KV/ILKVbT2UAzD7hWfRom45Z1qEkiHQjOtYelJ9X-NS_0awcGgFxn.jpeg
12:37<Supercheese>they have a monopoly on WTF, and are sadly all too real
12:37<V453000>XD
12:38<V453000>andythenorth: just try :)
12:38*andythenorth keeps trying
12:38<andythenorth>trying is the thing, right
12:38<andythenorth>?
12:38<V453000>yes
12:38<V453000>just mash buttons
12:39<@Alberth>building from lego could be a bit of a problem
12:39<@Alberth>loads of good colours
12:40<@Alberth>hard red and hard blue don't conflict at all :p
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12:55<_johannes>is there an openttd screensaver?
12:55<_johannes>please say yes :D
12:56<_johannes>where from one map, random trains are followed for ~ 20 seconds
12:56<_johannes>that would be cool
13:01<V453000>I remember a discussion about something like that for the menu screen
13:01<_johannes>awesome: https://wiki.openttd.org/Openttd_%28x11%29_screensaver_howto
13:01*_johannes must try this out
13:10<@Alberth>loads of YT videos doing that (longer than 20 seconds though)
13:11<V453000>XD
13:11<V453000>point
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13:38*andythenorth needs the OGFX steel mill
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13:53*V453000 is wondering what does andythenorth want on OGFX steel mill
13:54<V453000>is there any uglier OGFX industry?
13:54<andythenorth>funny you should ask
13:54<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7670/pyrite_smelter_1.png
13:54<andythenorth>wanted the furnace
13:54<andythenorth>I fixed it a bit
13:54<V453000>ok that might be the only ok bit XD
13:57<andythenorth>I want a different key colour for this industry
13:58<V453000>I find the long industry layouts weird tbh
13:58<andythenorth>I have used brown a lot recently
13:58<andythenorth>it’s just a test layout
13:58<V453000>brown is nice for smelter I think
13:58<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7576/copper_refinery_7.png
13:58<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7576/copper_refinery_7.png
13:58<andythenorth>maybe it’s right, and I’m just bored of 3 in a row brown
13:58*andythenorth considered red, but ugly
13:59<V453000>where is frosch the CC nazi
13:59<V453000>'s fine :P
13:59*andythenorth gets on with it
13:59<andythenorth>moar brown then
14:00<andythenorth>sometimes I use this other brown, but eh, not right for this http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#nitrate_mine
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14:20<andythenorth>now I need some massive wtf tower thing
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14:30<V453000>draw it? :)
14:44<andythenorth>yup
14:47<FLHerne>Evening
14:48<FLHerne>Spent almost a year doing [other stuff], but I'm back to trying to build a grf-editing tool now
14:48<FLHerne><Eddi|zuHause> it's really simple, actually. enable the bounding boxes (Ctrl+B if you have newgrf developer tools enabled). find the corner of the bounding box that is invisible. that need to be the coordinates for your offset
14:49<FLHerne><FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Relative to the top corner of the sprite? <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:49<FLHerne>I've tried following that, but it doesn't seem to give the same results as the game :-/
14:49<FLHerne>http://imgur.com/a/nHMIw
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>things might be more complicated for shortened vehicles. i don't really remember
14:50<FLHerne>The NML example road vehicle has offsets -14, -7, but the ingame bounding box seems to have offset -16, -6 according to those rules
14:51<FLHerne>I think the NML one is standard-length?
14:51<@Alberth>cropping of image?
14:52<FLHerne>Alberth: Horizontally, there's nothing to crop, I think cropping it vertically would be different in the opposite direction?
14:54<FLHerne>Perhaps I should see how it comes out for other lengths/directions
14:54<@Alberth>depends on the side being cropped
14:54<V453000>FLHerne: why do you care about bounding boxes?
14:54<V453000>I always just put vehicles in game, see how it looks, adjust offsets if necessary (usually is)
14:55<@Alberth>original image + offset/size has all the non-transparent pixels at the same place as cropped image + adjusted offset/size
14:55<V453000>bounding boxes are a nice hint but ...
14:55<FLHerne>V453000: So that the user can drag a bounding box over the vehicle sprite and have their offsets automagically calculated
14:55<FLHerne>Which only works if I can do the calculations right :P
14:55<V453000>xd
14:55<V453000>ah
14:55<V453000>I see
14:55<V453000>nice effort :)
14:55<FLHerne>And yes, I know this is a terrible idea that'll probably never work out. Don't warn me ;-)
14:55<V453000>very brave and valiant :D
14:57<andythenorth>FLHerne: write it in python, if you don’t mind
14:57<andythenorth>then if it works, I can stop fighting offsets :(
14:57<V453000>I need to learn python too, fucking blender
14:59<FLHerne>andythenorth: Yes, although PyQt is such a completely unpythonic set of wrappers that half of it might as well not be :-/
15:01<V453000>^ andythenorth, offsets will haunt you till death
15:02<FLHerne>Okay, so the sprite aligner thinks it ends up with -14, -7 too (accounting for it being broken in 1.5.3), so it's not just an NML thing
15:03<FLHerne>Problem is, the point on the bounding box that apparently should be offset 14px across and 7px down from the top-left of the sprite seems to be completely arbitrary
15:03<FLHerne>It's not a corner (including the invisible one), nor the middle
15:04<FLHerne>Perhaps I should just shrug and define the apparently-arbitrary point without thinking about it :P
15:09<@Alberth>for testing, the origin isn't relevant
15:10<@Alberth>I would expect the newgrfspecs to define it though
15:17<FLHerne>Yes, I think http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates#Coordinates was the page I wanted :-)
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15:46*andythenorth -> bed
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19:17<drac_boy>hi
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19:24<drac_boy>btw unrelated to my previous subject but heres something about turntables yet different heh https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Busdrehscheibe00-Schloss_Burg-110105.jpg
19:25<drac_boy>talk about turning a trolleybus on a penny, although by now the route has been extended so the turntable is only for special runs
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19:34<sim-al2>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Reading_Trolleybus_at_Three_Tuns.jpg
19:35<drac_boy>I don't even see anything under the bus? :P heh
19:40<sim-al2>Well, more of a roundabout, but it can function as a turn-around
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19:44<drac_boy>true
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19:46<drac_boy>btw heres something you might like, you know how model train layouts on single board or so often have these unnatural curves at one or both ends that you just live with? well heres a real-life example of a tight full 180 degree curve nevertheless :) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/2011-08-02_13-05-17_Switzerland_Alp_Grüm.jpg/1024px-2011-08-02_13-05-17_Switzerland_Alp_Grüm.jpg
19:48<sim-al2>Link is broken
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19:56<drac_boy>dunno, seem to work on both here .. either way just look for 'alp grum station layout' or something
19:56<drac_boy>and which of what you doing anyhow? :)
20:08<sim-al2>I'm good
20:19<drac_boy>not doing much here tonight myself anyhow..got a few things tomorrow tho
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20:39<drac_boy>oh and heres another ex-road rail thinge for you from india? http://lankadesha.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/railbus.jpg
20:39<drac_boy>looks like they decided to just put two of them back-to-back to avoid the need for major cab modifications to run in both directions
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21:25<sim-al2>I think those might from Sri Lanka, they seem to have to love Leyland bus parts
21:27<drac_boy>and heres something that looks more like an usa bus than a leyland one heh? http://cars-pics-db.com/pics/leyland/leyland-bus/leyland-bus-04.jpg
21:28<drac_boy>many of the leyland photos seem to be of the typical britian practices tho
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21:31<drac_boy>btw in case you missed that .. I was saying this one looks more like an usa bus than a leyland bus http://cars-pics-db.com/pics/leyland/leyland-bus/leyland-bus-04.jpg .. but at least most others seem to be typical britain practices tho
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21:35<sim-al2>I think India does have a number of converted buses, but Sri Lanka actually built their own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GX0CuJu2i8
21:36<sim-al2>"Lanka Ashok Leyland"
21:55<drac_boy>btw heres something a bit different http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Leyland-SA.jpg .. leyland cars, just like how tatra used to have cars for a while but is now purely a commercial vehicles company basically
21:58<sim-al2>Wait did they own Land Rover?
21:59<drac_boy>licensing agreement on a few models I believe
22:00<drac_boy>I know that in the africa areas there were a lot of cars built using design from ford/etca .. weird world to look into sometimes
22:05<drac_boy>huh looks like even wikipedia said eg Rover P6 salon was based around Buick toolings too
22:06<drac_boy>either way sorry about stopping this short but I'm going sleep now allright? :)
22:06<sim-al2>Seems that Volkswagon built the Mk2 in SA for many years, even after the mk4
22:06<sim-al2>Oh ok, night
22:07<drac_boy>heh vw...btw long after the beetle was discounted everywhere else I believe south america and/or africa kept building it for much longer, even to the point that it had abs and airbag etc on the factory sheet too
22:07<drac_boy>anyway goodnight indeed :)
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22:08<sim-al2>Last Beetle was built in 2003 in Mexico, now sits in the museum at Wolfsburg
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 07 00:00:31 2016