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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-03-09

---Logopened Wed Mar 09 00:00:34 2016
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05:53<Eddi|zuHause>that quickly becomes so complicated that you cannot predict it without actually building it
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07:06<argoneus>good morning train friends
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08:48<Quatroking>˙͜>˙
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10:49<@Alberth>hi hi
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14:19<andythenorth>o/
14:24<@Alberth>hi hi
14:24<@Alberth>pyrite melter is so hot it doesn't have snow on its roofs :)
14:24<@Alberth>looks like a very nice addition to firs
14:30<@planetmaker>o/
14:30<@planetmaker>andythenorth, why is the pyrite melter built on foundations? Or is that just an effect of the landscape in that particular case?
14:30<V453000>it looks INSANELY tall to me, but whether that is a bad thing... ? :D
14:30<V453000>hi pm :)
14:30<V453000>and other humanz
14:30<V453000>foundations look like cause of terrain
14:30<@Alberth>yo Vz
14:32<andythenorth>it is insanely tall
14:32<andythenorth>smelters are some of the biggest things around IRL
14:32<andythenorth>someone at work has a factorio addiction btw V453000
14:33<V453000>yeah reddit is full of "my life is ruined" posts
14:33<V453000>make sure it doesn't spread, it really is addictive :D
14:33*andythenorth staying out of it
14:34<V453000>you should try it !
14:34<V453000>:>
14:36<V453000>https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/4922tv/welp_this_is_my_life_now/
14:36<V453000>eh http://i.imgur.com/8HPp6vK.gifv
14:37<efess>Factorio is awesome :D
14:39<V453000>:)
14:42<@Alberth>games that allow building processing pipe lines always sell :p
14:47<andythenorth>can we implement OpenTTD in factorio?
14:47<andythenorth>as a mod?
14:47<andythenorth>are the mods xml? o_O
14:48<@Alberth>obviously you must have xml as file format, even though it's total overkill, and not readable :p
15:03<V453000>mods are lua, can do pretty much anything
15:04<V453000>mod options are basically the same as of the base game
15:04<V453000>which is nice, you can really do whatever you want
15:04<V453000>anyway gnight
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15:21<Birko>Hello, what is the best way to keep only unique numbers in array in Squirell? ... I am pushing tile numbers to array, but finally i would like to have only unique numbers in array. Thanks
15:23<@Alberth>set up an integer with the next unique number, and increment it each use?
15:25<+glx>check if it's already in the array before pushing
15:25<@Alberth>depends somewhat on the use of the unique number
15:27<+glx>but it's better to use an AITileList than an array
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15:33<Birko>The whole issue is this. I have AITileList with assumed location of train station. I need the tiles around this AITileList (for some other feature) in the array. So Im going to look on every neighbour (8neigbours around each tile) of each tile and keep only those tiles, which are not in station tile list. Adn after that, keep only unique numbers of tiles.
15:35<@Alberth>so it's not a rectangle, or a small number of rectangles?
15:35<@Alberth>you could store those instead of the actual tile numbers
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15:41<Birko>Yes, it is a rectangle. My station list is result of function which returned AITileList made by AddRectangle. So you suggest to made another rectangle (bigger) and the difference between them would be tiles around station?
15:43<@Alberth>I meant you make a Rectangle class with 4 position numbers, like left, right, top, down, and make a "isInside" test function
15:44<@Alberth>then make a 'big' Rectangle, and the station area Rectangle, and loop over x and y of the big rectangle, testing that the x and y are not in the station rectangle
15:44<@Alberth>no need to make long lists of tiles
15:45<Birko>thanks, im going to try that
15:45<@Alberth>good luck :)
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause><Birko> Hello, what is the best way to keep only unique numbers in array in Squirell? ... I am pushing tile numbers to array, but finally i would like to have only unique numbers in array. Thanks <-- sounds like you want a set (no idea if squirrel has those)
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18:50<drac_boy>hi
18:56<sim-al2>hi
18:56<sim-al2>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Kintetsu23000Series01.jpg
18:58<drac_boy>heh I've seen a few photos..I'm not sure I really like the wrap-over windshield style but mm
19:00<drac_boy>there is also this unofficially named a japan star war train :-> http://www.cheme.kyoto-u.ac.jp/foams15/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Nankai-Rapit.png
19:01<sim-al2>Now that's a small picture...
19:01<sim-al2>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Nankai_50000_series_201405040809_Neo_Xeon.jpg
19:01<sim-al2>Always has looked really, really weird
19:04<drac_boy>well at least you don't have to actually watch these everyday! https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/12/bb/ed/12bbed0827fbd96603874e51cc385402.jpg sorry can't seem to find any non-thumbnail photo of that one
19:05<drac_boy>this one probably isn't too bad as its just a livery paintover http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/18409781.jpg
19:05<drac_boy>funny whiskers tho :)
19:06<drac_boy>the other end of that same train has a slightr elevated image (the eyes are in windows instead)
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19:07<sim-al2>I'm not sure where that character is from, I was going to guess Anpanman, but not sure
19:08<sim-al2>Slightly weird train: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/JR-East_Anpanman.jpg
19:10<drac_boy>well you just found a "theres a prototype for everything!" photo ;)
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19:10<sim-al2>Btw, that cable car you posted, this thing: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Kintetsu260-115.JPG , and the first train I posted, are all part of one company :)
19:11<drac_boy>one of the kalbmach Trains issue once ran a photo of a small centercab diesel locomotive hauling a gondola converted into open-top tour coach and then behind that was a budd rdc
19:11<sim-al2>Kintetsu, a rather major player around Osaka
19:11<drac_boy>talk about two light diesels on a single tourist train heh
19:12<sim-al2>I assume that most RDCs are not run on their own engines anymore, barring significant overhaul work
19:12<sim-al2>Tons were converted to be regular coaches by the MBTA and others
19:12<drac_boy>oh yeah weird one for some people but there was once a "what the...." titled photo of an excursion geep stopped with one rather big tumbleweed stuck to its pilot .. caption said a few passengers were summoned to help clear this off so the train could continue on its way
19:13<drac_boy>I imagine it was around calfornia probably
19:14<sim-al2>A lot of Japanese electric roads have workcars instead of locomotives for their maintenance needs: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Kintetsu_Moto75_Nara_JPN_001.JPG
19:15<drac_boy>ex-emu? wouldn't surprise me at that clever reuse
19:17<drac_boy>actually (and probably long before OSHA ever existed too) a few of these spindly light electric railroads in usa basically just took a flatcar that wasn't being used and hammer a wooden cab or two onto it then put up trolleypoles on the roof .. presto, crude work motor :)
19:17<sim-al2>Of course, Toei (the Tokyo city-owned subway system) went the other way, having an electric locomotive (right) to pull the linear-motor powered EMUs of the Oedo line accross trackage of the Asakusa Line (not equipped with the linear rail): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Tokyo_Toei_E5003_Toei_12-000.JPG
19:18<sim-al2>The big metal thing under the locomotive is the rail that the linear motor pulls on
19:19<sim-al2>Appearently, using a linear motor helped allow smaller rolling stock, important for the very deep level Oedo line, which even then still cost a lot of money to bore
19:21<sim-al2>Yeah, most of these work cars are ex-EMU, converted from older commuter units: JNR example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/f/f9/JNR_EC_kuru144-14.jpg
19:21<sim-al2>Some had lives as baggage units too: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/JNR_Kumonni143-7.jpg
19:21<sim-al2>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/9/9d/JNR_kumoya143_shinagawa_inside.jpg
19:22<sim-al2>A few hacked back into passenger cars: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Kumoha_123-1.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/1987-8-kumoha123-5a.JPG
19:25<drac_boy>btw I can't find one of these ex-flatcar "motors" now but heres a different image that shows what kind of things the little railroads loved to do before OSHA and other similar laws basically made them outlawed more or less http://www.hrtrains.com/images/gscratchbuiltworkcar.jpg
19:26<sim-al2>Yeah, not much protection: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0602/tmd16.jpg
19:26<drac_boy>aha yeah thats exactly the kind of cab-over-flat-wagon I was thinking of ^ .. just no wooden cab tho :)
19:28<drac_boy>btw not exactly like you get a lot of photos of them but one particular ex-electric line I recall also had a heavyweight combine ... with one end's platform and steps rather somewhat noticeably bent more than 10 degree off from one too many downgrade "bang into someone else on the same track" hard couplings
19:29<drac_boy>I always thought the passengers wisely used the other steps instead heh
19:29<drac_boy>(it was a point to point railroad so the same end was always facing the downhill grade btw)
19:30<sim-al2>I can't see how this could cause problems: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0102/isu1.jpg
19:30<drac_boy>btw you remind me...one moment trying find a rack railway name again...
19:36<drac_boy>well apparently the exact photo I had in mind wasn't shared online but anyway what would you had thought of something like this http://www.berrua.com/uploads/images/Gallery/rhune/La-Rhune-petit-train-04-a-PTR.jpg sitting at station with both pairs down while a man was actually standing around up on the roof fixing something ... and the overhead power was still live? :)
19:36<drac_boy>yet another pre-workerregulations thing heh
19:37<sim-al2>Well, with low voltages that might be ok, although very little room for error
19:37<sim-al2>Assuming that the roof is grounded to the rails
19:38<drac_boy>3000V 50HZ wiki says (early ac I believe)
19:38<sim-al2>Yeah, three-phase system too, but it only takes a connection between two phases to get a current
19:39<sim-al2>The rails carry the third (somewhat like a regular system, where the rails are the ground side)
19:40<drac_boy>if we're going to nitpick about feeds .. how about the london system? I'm not sure but I think its the only well known 4-rails system
19:42<sim-al2>That's special though, with the fourth rail at a negative voltage
19:42<sim-al2>Those trains can actually run on regular third rail too
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19:51<drac_boy>theres one more thing about the london tube too....I can't find a photo now but theres these L16 battery locomotives in top-n-tail with a gravel/trash train being hauled by some random diesel or electric locomotive on the normal mainlines 0_o
19:52<drac_boy>guess they just found it easier than moving the locomotives off somewhere else and take the wagons alone
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20:07<sim-al2>It's possible that the LU still has vaccum brakes on those things
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20:09<sim-al2>Errr, nevermind they are air
20:10<sim-al2>The thing is, they need 3rd or 4th rail to run very far, as the batteries aren't made for high-speed usage
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20:11<drac_boy>wiki keeps mentioning single and dual compressors so I imagine the newer ones are purely air/electric operations anyway :)
20:13<sim-al2>I assume the air compressor thing is: normally, a lone locomotive would need to stop and apply the handbrake immediatly if the air compressor fails, as the air for the brake cylinders is coming directly from the main reservoir
20:13<sim-al2>With a train, that's not as serious a problem, as the train brakes are fail-safe against that, and can stop the whole thing
20:14<drac_boy>yeah
20:14<sim-al2>Usually, there's a safety valve that can hold the brake cylinders against a loss of air, but it's not guarenteed in the same way a full automatic brake circuit is
20:15<drac_boy>reminds me of some rather basic 0-4-0T and 0-6-0T that umm ... would scare anyone at the federal offices nowaday because guess what? the only brakes are either setting the throttle backward and/or wagon handbrakes :->
20:15<sim-al2>Railcars that are used singlley often have dual air circuits, like a car
20:16<sim-al2>Hmmm, even the earliest locomotives had a wood block for braking
20:16<drac_boy>there was actually one 0-4-0T that used to be used for a short but hilly line, it had no air system, no headlight, noone thought of a whistle either (funny enough it did still have a rope bell), etc
20:17<drac_boy>its still preserved in excursion order but with a lot of modern thigns added including even a turbogenerator
20:17<sim-al2>Industrial railways, especially the near minimum gauges ones, often had much less complicated equipment
20:17<sim-al2>Since they aren't going fast anyway, corners can be cut :D
20:17<drac_boy>you still have to ask how a 0-4-0T could come downhill with several handbrakes-only wagons tho :-s
20:18<sim-al2>Need a guy on one or more wagons to put the brakes on
20:18<sim-al2>And off, sorta like how railways did before automatic brakes
20:19<sim-al2>Although, with a short train, hand signals could be used
20:19<drac_boy>there were only three crew on that train: passenger conductor, engineer, fireman
20:19<sim-al2>Alternatively, the locomotive itself could handle all the braking, assuming enough weight to hold the train
20:20<drac_boy>btw if you do want a big use of hand brakes you should look at the Devil Pass (or was it Devil Hill?) train ... old ex-usa baldwin steam locomotives with many old wagons making the tough zig-zag route with tons of whistling
20:20<sim-al2>Using the steam in reverse is certainly possible, but risks damage to the rods if not done with care
20:22<drac_boy>ah its actually Devil Nose .. in ecuador area
20:22<drac_boy>lot of wooden boxcars still in use too apparently
20:25<drac_boy>either way sorry if you had more to say but I'm going off for tonight - see you some another time ok? :)
20:26<sim-al2>Ok, night
20:26<sim-al2>Hmm, that have a more modern railcar too
20:27<sim-al2>Literally railbuses
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