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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-03-20

---Logopened Sun Mar 20 00:00:50 2016
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03:44<andythenorth>o/
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04:00<Wolf01>o/
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04:51<openbu>I need a example(NML,Simple,KISS) HOUSE_SIZE_2X2.
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07:05<@Alberth>o/
07:13<frosch123>Lo
07:15-!-Doge [~oftc-webi@37-219-202-183.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
07:15<Doge>I need help
07:16<@Alberth>/me opens a can of help
07:16<Doge>Hey its you again
07:16<Doge>My problem is...
07:16<Doge>I launched server but i cant find it at Multiplayer why?
07:17*Doge
07:18<@Alberth>is it here? https://www.openttd.org/en/servers
07:18<@Alberth>page takes a while to update (every some minutes afaik, but not sure)
07:19<Doge>umm i checked at My Openttd 1.5.3
07:20<Doge>no its not there
07:20<@Alberth>that uses the same information, but one additional step (from the openttd site back to your 1.5.3 client)
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07:21<@Alberth>so either the server doesn't advertise or the intenet blocks the advertising
07:21<@Alberth>fixed the ports?
07:21<@Alberth>@ports
07:21<@DorpsGek>Alberth: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
07:21<Doge>I finded my server yesterday
07:22<Doge>i had same problem
07:22<Doge>later it came
07:22<Doge>but now its again cant find
07:22<Doge>i started it today again
07:23<Doge>my server advertises
07:23<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Server servery stuff
07:24<@Alberth>if it advertizes, then either the computer firewall blocks the advertisement, it advertises to the wrong address (ie not a local LAN ip address, right?), or the router/modem between LAN and the Internet blocks it
07:25<@Alberth>theoretically, the ISP may also block 'weird' ports
07:26<Doge>How i know my Server IP?
07:27<@Alberth>note that you don't actually need advertisements. If you type the IP address directly in the client, it will work too
07:27<Doge>Where i can find my server IP
07:27<@Alberth>I don't use Windows at all
07:28<@Alberth>but your ISP gives it to you
07:29<Doge>it worked
07:29<Doge>i just changed server to no advertisment
07:29<Doge>thx bro
07:29<Doge>if you want check out my server here is ip:
07:30<Doge>192.168.43.116:3979
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07:33<Doge>spam begins
07:33<Doge>3
07:33<Doge>2
07:33<Doge>1
07:33<Doge>0
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>Open World 2.0 Join now IP: 192.168.43.116:3979
07:33<Doge>ps: im a spammer
07:36<@Alberth>let me guess, you get nobody?
07:41<Doge>yeah i got nobody
07:41<Doge>but i got trick
07:41<Doge>i will load many Openttd pages
07:41<Doge>and i join with them to my servers
07:41<Doge>then somebody thinks oh thats popular i wanna play that
07:43<Wolf01>let me guess... you are that king od guy who rush to buy something because he seen it on a tv commercial?
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07:47<Doge>ok but can i see my server with no advertisment at public server list at openttd website
08:02<frosch123>Don't bother:p there are already way too many servers. If you do not have a unique setup noone will join. So, unless you want to play with some friends, just stop your server and play on already existing ones
08:07<frosch123>Hmm, i bought malaysian almond chocolate. According to ingredients it has more almond than cocoa. Yet i have not found an almond...
08:07<frosch123>I wonder where the color comes from :p
08:07<@Alberth>:)
08:09<@Alberth>hi hi andythenorth
08:10<frosch123>Well, chips/crisps are the best products so far
08:10<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/chk_ind_compatibility.py
08:10<frosch123>And weird chinese fruits
08:10<@Alberth>s/weird/unique/ :)
08:11<@Alberth>andythenorth: drop in 'src', and run :)
08:11<frosch123>'haw' tastes like apricot
08:12<@Alberth>fruit is probably mostly the same everywhere
08:12<frosch123>I don't think that fruit even has a german name
08:13<@Alberth>I wouldn't know one, but that does not mean much :)
08:14<andythenorth>Alberth: thanks \o/
08:14*andythenorth hasn’t tested it yet
08:14<andythenorth>doing house jobs
08:15<@Alberth>it does default properties only
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08:15<@Alberth>not sure what should be changed for economies
08:16<@Alberth>also, it just dumps a list of missing/weird things, maybe you want something more there?
08:16<@Alberth>but that would need folding it into the build process somehow
08:17<andythenorth>I can extend it to check economies
08:17<andythenorth>and pass the economy when I call it
08:18<@Alberth>well, have a look at it first :)
08:19<@Alberth>in theory, industries hating other industries would become economy specific
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09:48<_johannes>I have a train here with cargo where it says: "15 tons of wood from station <station-name> (x2)"
09:48<_johannes>what does the "x2" mean?
09:51<FLHerne>_johannes: Cargo weight multiplier
09:51<_johannes>FLHerne: it means that the cargo "wood" weights twice as much as "passenger"?
09:51<FLHerne>_johannes: You can set freight cargos to weigh [n] times more than passengers, so that freight trains will be inconveniently sluggish
09:51<FLHerne>Yes
09:52<_johannes>ah :)
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10:02<Eddi|zuHause>that's not entirely true
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10:03<Eddi|zuHause>it means that for game mechanic purposes (mostly acceleration) the "15 tons" will be treated as "15 tons x2"
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>1 passenger does not weigh 1 ton
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>there's also a (newgrf-definable) property that defines how much one unit of cargo weighs. that means by default 16 passengers weigh a ton
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10:16<_johannes>oh ok then wood does weight a lot more than passengers
10:18<_johannes>one passenger waggon carries 40 passenger, e.g. ~ 2.5 tons, while wood can weight up to 30 tons
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10:41<argoneus>good morning train friends
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10:45<@Alberth>it makes building tracks so much more interesting in hilly country :)
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11:06<Birko>Hi everyone, can somebody exaplain me how works AITile::GetCornerHeight(TileIndex tile, Corner corner) ? According to documentation (https://noai.openttd.org/api/1.4.4/classAITile.html#f3a597cec6ff7537047d52285f34d272) it should return "The height of the lowest corner of the tile, ranging from 0 to 15. " Isnt it illogical? I supposed, it should return the height of the corner which is as input in function
11:07-!-ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b223:d7ee:f065:d026:c4e0:f4fb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:08<@Alberth>yep, looks like it
11:08<@Alberth>also, 0..15 seems old :)
11:09<Birko>why old?
11:10<sim-al2>There's many more height levels avaliable now
11:11<Birko>I see
11:13<sim-al2>Looks like the maximum level is 255 now
11:18<Birko>ok, but it isnt main problem of this weird function :) i do not understand how it works. If anybody know, please explain me :)
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11:26<@Alberth>your idea sounds good to me, did you try it?
11:29<Birko>yes, im trying it now, but I have somewhere mistake, and I dont know if i do not understand that function, or if it is mistake somewhere else ... i try to debug it
11:33<Snail>hey guys… anyone here tried to use NFORenum on some code that uses OTTD’s new “Extended format” spriteblock feature?
11:33<Snail>because to me, NFORenum is giving me some error messages, but I think my NFO is still right
11:43<@Rubidium>Snail: what version of nforenum do you use?
11:44<Snail>I just compiled the latest… like a week ago
11:44<Snail>what is the command to check the version number?
11:45<@Rubidium>nforenum -v
11:47<Snail>strange, if I type that in the Terminal it tells me “command not found”
11:47<Snail>but from my download files, it should be 6.0.5
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11:48<Snail>the files I downloaded (and compiled) are dated may 9th, 2015
11:48<@Rubidium>oh, it's a feature from 2011
11:49<@Rubidium>then I would say that it should work
11:49<@Rubidium>but besides that I have too little experience with that format to say anything sensible about it and the one that made the format is on holiday
11:57<Snail>ok, so should I just open a new bug report on the devzone?
11:57<Snail>hope they still look at it :)
12:14<Snail>btw I wasn’t talking about the “advanced sprite layout” (added in nforenum 5.1.2)
12:15<Snail>I was talking about the OpernTTD extended format, introduced in r22925
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12:18<@Alberth>yeah, at Sun Sep 11 15:10:56 2011 +0000 :)
12:22<Snail>yep, and in NFORenum’s changelog, I can’t see that being added
12:27<@Alberth>ok, that would count as bug
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14:07<Snail>ok, just added a bug report :) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8130
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27524 trunk/src/lang/esperanto.txt (2016-03-20 19:45:37 +0100 )
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
14:45<@DorpsGek>esperanto: 3 changes by LaPingvino
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>Snail: sometimes nforenum keeps old files around in a directory like ~/.nforenum
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>try to find and clear those
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14:48<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
14:48<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 31 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <andythenorth> and pass the economy when I call it
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14:49<Snail>Eddi|zuHause: what do you mean?
14:50<DanMacK>Hey Snail, LTNS
14:50<Snail>yes :) how are things?
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14:51<Eddi|zuHause>Snail: it stores some *.dat files from the older version installed, which supposedly allows you to modify its behaviour without reinstalling/recompiling it, but those files are not updated properly
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>Snail: so the new features won't automatically be recognized after updating
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what that directory would be named on windows
14:52<Snail>oh, ok
14:53<Snail>you mean on my computer?
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes
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14:55<Snail__>But the thing is, I don't think this was never implemented
14:55<Snail__>So even going through the old files wouldn't help I'm afraid
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>i find it unlikely that nobody implemented it
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>but i never tried
15:00<Snail__>Thing is, I can't spot anything wrong with my NFO, but renum keeps giving me warnings. Maybe no one has tried this feature with renum yet
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15:09<@Alberth>what about revision #832? Feature: support the advanced sprite layout in action2 (based on patch by frosch)
15:12<Snail__>Alberth: That's a different thing
15:12<@Alberth>ok
15:12<Snail__>What I'm talking about is part of action 1
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like the zoom levels?
15:13<@Alberth>I know nfo has actions, and that's about it :)
15:13<andythenorth>o/
15:13<@Alberth>hi hi andy
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>i still think it's about old files hidden somewhere on your installation
15:13<Snail__>No, that's not the zoom levels
15:14<Snail__>It's about having a spriteblock with more than 256 entries, and that can start at numbers higher than 00
15:14<andythenorth>DanMacK: o/
15:15<Snail__>Eddi|zuHause: Well I compiled it myself. Should I look anywhere in particular in the source files?
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>not in the source files
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>in some hidden personal directory
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15:16<Eddi|zuHause>check the readme
15:18<Snail__>What makes me perplex is that it's not in the changelog. Had it been implemented, it would be there somewhere
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15:26<Eddi|zuHause>well, i really do not know anything about the feature you are talking about
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16:53<supermop>there should be a terminus tram stop
16:53<supermop>for short, non-articulated trams
16:56<sim-al2>Maybe a little turn-back siding?
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17:00<sim-al2>The problem I see is that trams use the same paths as road-vehicles, so the trams would do that 180 turn thing like trucks...
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17:18<supermop>as is there is no real way for trams to lay up though
17:19<supermop>so there is no way for them to wait and let a late tram behind them pass
17:31<FLHerne>supermop: You can always build stops in parallel
17:32<FLHerne>Or on little stubs
17:32<supermop>doesn't reliably work -
17:33<supermop>if you have a late tram immediately following an on time tram, it follows the first one into the stop on the same track
17:33<supermop>so it cannot pass
17:34<supermop>if i have busses running every 10 days, I can but a terminus bus stop at the end of the line, and set the waiting time to 11 days
17:34<supermop>just like at a two-track rail terminal
17:35<supermop>so there is enough time for a late bus to skip ahead of an on time one to regain it's slot
17:35<supermop>but there isn't a way to do that with trams
17:36<supermop>which is odd as trams seem better suited to turning around at a dead end than a bus would be, seeing as the generally have cabs at both ends
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17:43<Wolf01>'night
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19:23<Snail>what the...
19:24<Snail>I just compiled my set and I got OTTD quit after telling me this”
19:24<Snail>“Would you be so kind not to load a NewGRF that makes the ‘query’ sprite a non-normal sprite?”
19:24<Snail>what the heck does this mean?
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20:53<drac_boy>hi
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21:00<drac_boy>hi as always :P
21:00<drac_boy>what doing tonight
21:00<sim-al2>Not much, internet is dropping out again
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21:02<drac_boy>being bit lazy here too..although I'm still trying to find some elusive volvo specs yet
21:04*drac_boy may go to bed later
21:08<drac_boy>oh and btw I've been still looking for an online copy but would you believe that there was a steam excursion (the locomotive was a smaller mogul sized sort of thing .. not one of these big 4-8-4 everyone seem to want to watch) right on the corridor mainline itself... bit crazy how different things must had been back then :->
21:09<drac_boy>of course old amtrak isn't same as new amtrak so mm yeah
21:10*drac_boy thinks that was a bit like seeing steam showing up at King Cross in uk
21:10<sim-al2>The old corridor was a bit short on services at the beginning
21:11<sim-al2>Well, there are those Harry Potter trains...
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21:18<sim-al2>Sometimes, it's easy to forget how large trains can be: http://kashiwa.mokuren.ne.jp/contents/memory/201/1810183.jpg
21:18<drac_boy>of course if you wanted to check the 1960-1970's photos in usa you'll likely eventually find many examples of unusual power replacements tho .. neverminding dead fresh-new diesels being taken over either by steam or old dirty freight roads
21:20<sim-al2>Early Amtrak trains are really strange, because all the old equipment from the various railroads was just pooled without repainting
21:21<drac_boy>mm actually..slight related, I recall one of my magazine had a typical branchline passenger train standing at station but the locomotive was shiny black from front to part of the cab then the rest of cab and tender were quite a bit grimed ... turns out the scheduled power had some issue so another locomotive was swiped off the ready track before the wipers had finished with it
21:22<drac_boy>heh early amtrak also had that confusing "pointed-to-where" arrow as well .. no wonder they never really used arrows much on newer locomotives after that one :)
21:22<sim-al2>off-topic a bit, but Japan actually has a few sometime excursion trains now: http://kashiwa.mokuren.ne.jp/contents/memory/202/1830351.jpg
21:23<drac_boy>and who can (seem modellers still keep talking about this even to today!) forget the "bloody nose" red paintup amtrak used for a while too?
21:23<drac_boy>this would be one of them http://36.media.tumblr.com/eb63c68923df44c71dc8726eda276588/tumblr_o03vonaok91rxwen9o1_500.jpg
21:24<sim-al2>Appeared on the SDP40's too: http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/data/peteski/201131922478_AmtrakPh1_orig.jpg
21:25<drac_boy>can I say "goddamn bleeding thing!" :P
21:26<sim-al2>Looks pretty nice even on the P42s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/knelson27/5748165842
21:28<drac_boy>either way about japan steam .. I'm not sure why but there was once one of these express tender locomotive under full power hauling a complete emu set (had somewhat slanted cab)
21:29<sim-al2>Happen to be this one? http://kashiwa.mokuren.ne.jp/contents/memory/202/1830209.jpg
21:29<drac_boy>looked like that yeah I think
21:30<sim-al2>That particular unit can be hauled around by a locomotive, or operate by itself in electrified areas
21:31<drac_boy>hmm slight different but this reminds me of a topic I started in here some time ago re how some steam locomotives were initially designed for freight duty but found themself soon changed to express service instead and vice versa
21:32<sim-al2>One of the steam services actually uses a set of modified DMUs, as it operates on a steep line and the locomotive is a fairly small type, so the DMUs power uphill
21:32<drac_boy>especially when (on one railroad) a train came in late with steaming trouble so it was taken off and a freight locomotive planning to at least take it to end of route .. but as the photographer watched it left the station quite fast, and soon he found out it arrived on-time and a few days several of the class was reassigned to passenger pool straight away
21:33<drac_boy>and of course the UP FEF was often on passenger trains but when bumped by diesels they found themself happy with moderate freight trains, not surprised tho as the design was meaning to be a dual-duty locomotive
21:34<sim-al2>Some of the larger types that appeared later on, like the advanced 4-8-2s, could easily run both freight and passenger
21:35<drac_boy>of course uk had a few of its own stories too
21:36<drac_boy>like how else could Southern not care about running a 9F at very fast speeds (it had five heavy driver axles...!) with express trains for a while 0_0
21:36<sim-al2>Of course, in unusual situations any locomotive can be found on trains it didn't normally run on
21:37<drac_boy>or that a Mallard could be found working non-express freight trains at rare times? (sometimes unbraked fittings too)
21:37<sim-al2>Seems like a good use :D
21:39<drac_boy>well the 9F had these 5ft drivers and I think the counterbalance was just 'ok' .. plus theres the factor of that heavy siderod total weight
21:40<drac_boy>but I dunno tbh .. I just know that BR eventually never even want them to run fast anymore after that one few years of express sting
21:41<sim-al2>I've read that there were concerns about bearing overheating as well as general overstress of the rods
21:42<drac_boy>btw it would appear these crazy-fast express stings actually came to more than 130kph 0_0
21:42<drac_boy>I probably wouldn't want to take a 9F *that* fast heh
21:43<drac_boy>there is one fast freight the Mallard did seeming get scheduled for quite a few many times tho....fish :)
21:43<drac_boy>made some sense seeing that its almost a nonstop dock-to-city routing
21:44<sim-al2>Yeah, sometimes weird workings are part of moving equipment to other areas that would otherwise be "deadheads"
21:45<sim-al2>Like the British DMUs, working one or two wagons as they returned to their depot
21:45<drac_boy>before the more modern bogie coaches theres many photos of the express-fitted fish vans being shunted right onto existing trains .. so you could have eg 4-2-0 followed by two vented vans then four 2-axle coaches
21:46<drac_boy>I imagine sanity among other things eventually made fish cargo usually go on dedicated trains
21:46<sim-al2>I think even milk wagons would be attached at times
21:46<drac_boy>btw moving ... thats pretty much why there were sometimes the odd doubleheads ... may as well as save one path while we're at that :)
21:47<sim-al2>As train weights increased and schedules tighten, those practices seem to go away
21:47<drac_boy>schedules tighten .. you want know what uk did that I still don't really understand? heh (and they were the only one to even do this too apparently)
21:50<drac_boy>:)
21:50<sim-al2>Eh?
21:51<drac_boy>https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5224/5595193541_d1b7bd9b4a_b.jpg take a guess ... the train's still moving too
21:52<sim-al2>well.... damn
21:52<drac_boy>slip coach .. as it was officially called
21:52<drac_boy>usually either a lesser train picked them up or the branchline service (think Duck 0-6-0T) moved them onward off-route
21:54<sim-al2>How did they disconnect the hook? It seems like a crewman would have to clamber along the side...
21:54<drac_boy>the reasons usually was a mixed bag.. it could be either to keep a really short schedule for the main stations and/or it was to start with a heavy train but cut off the excessive weight before hitting the later-on-routing-map hill grades
21:55<drac_boy>good question, I dunno .. I just know the slipcoach had their own smaller brake office as they needed a separate man to manner the manual brakes to stop the coach by the platform
21:56<sim-al2>It's a bit unfortunate for passengers who want to travel from that station
21:56<sim-al2>Also, not exactly a low risk manuever
21:57<drac_boy>for the latter it could be eg the locomotive could handle 720 the first half but only 600 for the second part so if theres major enough station dropoffs before middle point then thats where the slipcoaches were used apparently
21:57<drac_boy>yeah theres at least one LNER example of slipcoaches cutting off but then slamming into the very train itself :-s
21:58<sim-al2>The non-continuous braked trains seem to have always had multiple brake carriages, since the trains didn't have corridors either
21:59<sim-al2>Seems a little less dangerous when you consider that the coaches have just as much braking power as they did in the train anyway...
22:00<drac_boy>yeah
22:01<drac_boy>btw I'm not sure how long it lasted for (can't recall if its even still there on any modern ones) but the usa coaches always had an inside handbrake wheel just between the platform door and vestibule inside-door
22:01<sim-al2>Wikipedia article says most services stopped using it by the 30's, although the last Western drop was performed in 1960
22:01<drac_boy>so in theory even if someone closed the cocks and cut out the emergency air tank .. you could still stop the coach with the manual/chain brakes
22:02<sim-al2>Yeah, these coaches almost certainly didn't even have air or vaccum
22:03<sim-al2>Only a few trains had continuous brakes even up to the 1880's
22:03<sim-al2>Naturally, that led to a few accidents where it would have taken more than a mile to stop from 45 mph
22:03<drac_boy>actually I'm talking about 1950's wagons
22:04<sim-al2>Oh, yeah, I'm impressed the British allowed that for so long
22:04<drac_boy>the same kind of handwheel you see on top of old wooden boxcars ... it was still there inside the vestibule area on usa coaches .. not sure if modern ones still have it or its been removed away with
22:05<sim-al2>All equipment that I know of has the handbrake accessible from the vestibule or end of the car on EMUs
22:05<sim-al2>It's required, since the air will leak off after a few hours
22:07<sim-al2>Some of the modern equipment have large handles instead, but with a similar mechanism
22:07<drac_boy>btw I almost forgot...you and I were mentioning about vacuum vs air brakes ...
22:09<drac_boy>well as I recall some small railroads in usa (makes sense seeing they have a very short rooster list to deal with among other things .. not to mention if their lien is detached from any networks too) pretty much took some liberty with running higher-than-normal line pressure for faster recharge/discharge rate
22:09<drac_boy>lien=line*
22:09<drac_boy>it sometimes could result in more vavles/seals blowing out over time but the tradeoff was apparently worth it
22:11<drac_boy>rio grande (or was it during the d&rgw era? I can't recall now) did the same ... talk about mountain brakes :->
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22:16<drac_boy>oh...geeze..after ten already :-s sorry sim-a12 going sleep now .. have fun with whatever other non-trainchat things you had tonight anyhow :p
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 21 00:00:51 2016