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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-03-21

---Logopened Mon Mar 21 00:00:51 2016
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02:32<Supercheese>@seen andythenorth
02:32<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 11 hours, 18 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <andythenorth> DanMacK: o/
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03:13<Wolf01>o/
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08:31<Snail>hi guys… I posted this on the forums, but I’m asking you here as well since I’m really clueless
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08:32<Snail>yesterday I was testing my set, and OTTD gave me a very helpful message… it quit after telling me, “Would you be so kind not to load a NewGRF that makes the ‘query’ sprite a non-normal sprite?”
08:32<Snail>and I’m totally clueless as to what this means
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08:51<Flygon_>Sounds like the GRF loaded a sprite it shouldn't have
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08:54<@planetmaker>he sets property on a normal GUI sprite which it should not have
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08:57<V453000>Snail: [13:54] <@planetmaker> he sets property on a normal GUI sprite which it should not have
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08:58<Snail>The thing is, my set is not even touching the GUI
08:58<@planetmaker>OpenTTD expects a normal sprite but gets a recolour sprite or font sprite
08:59<Snail>But what does it have to do with the query sprite?
09:00<@planetmaker>not much except that it's the 1st normal sprite, thus the fallback sprite for failed sprite requests
09:00<@planetmaker>thus you see it for instances for broken sprite layouts where you return an invalid sprite number
09:02<Snail>Ok... The message could have been more helpful then
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09:04<@planetmaker>I don't know the call path. May well be that it's the first being overwritten, if you blunder with recolour sprites.
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09:25<@planetmaker>Snail, if you want more than superficial information, that's why we have the debug levels...
09:26<@planetmaker>then OpenTTD will tell you exactly which sprite it refers to.
09:27<Snail>Oh that sounds great. How can I access those debug levels?
09:28<@planetmaker>Snail, also, looking more at the code: the warning is 100% acurate concerning the sprite you try to modify...
09:28<@planetmaker>openttd -h
09:28<@planetmaker>will tell you which debug facilities. Probably misc or sprite or so
09:30<Snail>So I just run openttd -h in the terminal, then try to start a game with my newGRF, and then when the game crashes, it will display a message with the sprite number?
09:30<@planetmaker>driver, grf, map, misc, net, sprite, oldloader, npf, yapf, freetype, script, sl, gamelog, desync, console
09:30<@planetmaker>so probably 'sprite' :)
09:31<@planetmaker>Snail, no, that gives you the help which will tell you how to enable the proper debugging
09:31<Snail>Oh, ok
09:31<@planetmaker>and you will need a proper console to follow openttd's output... so on windoze you might first need to convert it to a console programme... no clue about that
09:32<@planetmaker>I can look it up in my console. or you can in yours. I prefer the latter :D
09:32<Snail>Well I use a Mac
09:32<@planetmaker>one issue solved
09:33<@planetmaker>you do have a proper console shipped out-of box
09:33<Snail>I usually use the Terminal
09:33<@planetmaker>^^
09:36<Snail>So I start with openttd -h, activate the sprite debugger, then start OTTD from the console, and see the output when the game crashes
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09:41<@planetmaker>activating the debug output is part of starting openttd. openttd -h only shows you the help how you might do that...
09:42<@planetmaker>./openttd -d sprite=6
09:42<@planetmaker>tbh, I didn't think I had to read that for you
09:43<supermop>hi planetmaker
09:43<@planetmaker>your questioning does not make me believe you actually *do* use OSX' console at all...
09:44<Snail>I'm not on my computer now... That's why
09:44<@planetmaker>aaaaarg.
09:44<Snail>I use the Terminal to compile OTTD and my trainset. But I don't have access to it now
09:46<Snail>But thanks for your help, I'll try it out later today
09:47<@planetmaker>tell that earlier and I don't have to assume that you're unable to follow simplest instructions...
09:47<@planetmaker>and I would have given you a more concise answer as take-away
09:48<@planetmaker>thanks for wasting my time with that omission :S
09:49<Snail>Hey dude calm down...
09:53<Snail>If ottd's error message had been more helpful (like, saying that something was wrong with a sprite and suggesting to start OTTD in debug mode) I would have probably done it myself without asking here
09:53<Snail>But anyway, again, thanks for your help
09:55<Ketsuban>That's kind of the problem. There is no "debug mode" - there's switching on additional debugging information. If the message had said "increase sprite debug information for more detailed help" you'd have come here and asked how to increase sprite debug information, and we're right back to square one. The fundamental fault is you didn't mention not being at your normal computer.
09:57<Ketsuban>... that was a little harsher than I intended.
10:00<Snail>Not necessarily.. I would have probably browsed the wiki for info about how to get more debug info. I might have been able to do it myself
10:00<Snail>Anyway my suggestion is to OTTD devs is to change that message to make it more helpful. Then it's your decision to do it or not :)
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10:11<@planetmaker>snail: the message is 100% accurate
10:12<@planetmaker>so why change when it describes what happens?
10:14<Snail>Maybe it's accurate technically, but it leaves people clueless.. I have no idea why the "query" sprite becomes "non-normal"... Then it suggests to look at the readme, and there, there is no reference to this "query" sprite
10:14<Snail>So the average user would not know how to proceed
10:30<supermop>i wonder if there are any decent gpl conveyor belt sprites around
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>FIRS and ISR have conveyor belts, maybe some objects as well
10:33<supermop>can a railtype change it's default station sprite like with its depot?
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>stations are complicated...
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>but it should be possible
10:36<V453000>beltzzz
10:37<supermop>if pipe is gpl could hack together a belt system fairly quickly
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10:43<V453000>supermop: what is so bad about drawing the graphics? :P
10:46<supermop>hard do do surreptitiously at work, i'd probably also get sidetracked and spend weeks on it, and i might no want to draw them in a style others like
10:49<V453000>who gives a shit if others like? :D
10:53<V453000>you like == winwin
10:53<V453000>nobody will like my new train set either
10:54<V453000>but I enjoy making it
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11:40<Wolf01>what kind of layout would be better for an universal app?
11:40<Wolf01>A) https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/ridble/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Appy_Geek.png tab style, you change tabs by sweeping left/right
11:40<Wolf01>B) http://i2.hd-cdn.it/img/width660/height350/id467326_1.jpg hamburger menu + sidebar style
11:40<Wolf01>C) a mix of both
11:42-!-frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
11:44<V453000>slugquak
11:44<supermop>the latter
11:45<frosch123>Hoi
11:51<supermop>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keihan_Keishin_Line#/media/File:Keihan800-hot-ksm.jpg
12:00<@Rubidium>frosch123: good evening (or good afternoon?)
12:02<frosch123>It's midnight
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12:04<V453000>did frog leave deutschland_
12:04<V453000>?
12:07<frosch123>Not sure
12:08<frosch123>Every second tourist seems to be german
12:08<frosch123>I expected way more chinese
12:08<V453000>wtf country did you get yourself into_
12:08<V453000>?
12:08<V453000>are there slugs?
12:14<frosch123>Only turtles
12:14<frosch123>And tortoises
12:16<@planetmaker>o/
12:17<V453000>turtles work too
12:17<V453000>tortoises are fine if they got some hg stuff
12:18<frosch123>And durians, if you want to know about fruits and buildings
12:19<V453000>ah that explains shit
12:19<V453000>so durians arent flooding in germany
12:21<frosch123>I bought that durian flavored chocolate, just out of interest (i was aware about the reputation)
12:22<frosch123>It smelled terrible as expected from the fruit, but even in chocolate form
12:22<frosch123>So i ate one piece
12:23<frosch123>The taste was acceptible, but the next burp was just like the smell again
12:23<frosch123>So i decided to leave it with one piece...
12:24<frosch123>Then i put it somewhat closed into the fridge with the intention to bring it back home and force everyone to take a piece as well
12:25<frosch123>But the next morning the fridge smelled so bad that i worried getting kicked out of the hotel:p
12:26<frosch123>So sadly i threw it into a public trash basket (outside the hotel)
12:26<frosch123>No durian for you:)
12:27<debdog>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Singapore_MRT_Fines.jpg
12:28<frosch123>Fake
12:28<frosch123>The first 3 are correct
12:28<frosch123>I have not seen the durian one in any mrt
12:30<@Rubidium>so, smoking costs $6000? (flammable goods + smoking)
12:35<frosch123>http://images.travelpod.com/tw_slides/ta01/355/332/singapore-opera-house-singapore.jpg they even designed their opera house like it
12:36<frosch123>To compete with sydney
12:37<V453000>xd
12:37<V453000>nice hedgehog
12:39<frosch123>Rubidium: the security personel everywhere is bored nevertheless
12:40<frosch123>Esp in the morning some seem to take a nap ;)
12:40<frosch123>The mrt is interesting though
12:41<frosch123>Driverless, and all platforms have double doors
12:42<frosch123>That is the platfoms have glass walls and doors at the tracks
12:42<frosch123>Which align and open with the train doors
12:43<frosch123>Quite hard to jump in front of a train
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12:54<frosch123>Night
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13:29<supermop>need some sample of dos pallet here
13:30<@Alberth>pallets eh? palette would be easier :)
13:32<sim-al2>DOS Pallet sample: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_APr0Vgj7kI/T4dWbH5atAI/AAAAAAAACZs/T3EDsr5jXdQ/s1600/SDC13068.JPG :p
13:34<sim-al2>Actual TTD-type Palette: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/images/grfwiki/6/6f/TTD_Palettes.png
13:35<@Alberth>ah, thanks, was also looking for that :)
13:36<@Alberth>:O nice pallets, they even look DOSy :)
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13:46<supermop>can a railtype override bridge graphics?
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14:18<supermop>why did i assume that sides of a tile would be 22.5 degrees
14:18<@Alberth>wikipedia says it?
14:24<@Alberth>just do 2 horizontal, 1 up/down :)
14:26<supermop>unless i have lost my mind i get 26.6 degrees drawing that then measuring
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>@calc arctan(1/2)
14:30<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: 'arctan' is not a defined function.
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>@calc atan(1/2)
14:30<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.463647609001
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>@calc atan(1/2)*180/pi
14:31<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 26.5650511771
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>that looks right
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14:34<supermop>why did i think it was 45/2
14:35<@Alberth>thinking in the wrong projection :)
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14:41<supermop>could make the conveyors covered to tie into isr
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27525 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2016-03-21 19:45:36 +0100 )
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
14:45<@DorpsGek>latin: 18 changes by Supercheese
14:51<supermop>workstation only has 8gb ram -_-
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17:24<Wolf01>guess what... I think I'll go to sleep
17:24<Wolf01>'night
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18:04<Birko>Hi everyone, how can I use AITestMode() for test if couple of tiles are possible to raise?
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18:20<+glx>Birko: you just instanciate an AITestMode object, do the test, then destroy the object to return to non test mode
18:24<Birko>I need some info from that test mode. So if I make a local variable after an instance of AITestMode object, then I destroy AITestMode object, will be that local variable accessible?
18:25<+glx>changing the build mode doesn't touch the scope
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18:27<Birko>glx: thx, I try it
18:29<Birko>and AIExecMode is opposite to AITestMode? Should I after destroying AITestMode maka an instance of AIExecMode?
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 22 00:00:53 2016