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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-01

---Logopened Fri Apr 01 00:00:08 2016
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03:33<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, actually I *did* make the river sprites, but not the rock sprites.
03:33<@planetmaker>moin also :)
03:34<@planetmaker>I had my hands on *all* OpenGFX ground sprites, but not enough to claim having made them. I mostly made them 'scriptable' in a big gimp file with many layers
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05:05<Wolf01>I'm dying to know why the 1.6.0 has not been published today :)
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05:09<andythenorth>today is not over yet? o_O
05:09*andythenorth does not know
05:11<Wolf01>I'm used to wake up and find april fools and fake april fools already there, maybe I woke up too early :P
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08:56<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it used to be that release was around 0:00. those times have faded, i guess
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09:59<Samu>This "werks" ->
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09:59<Samu>but how do i test savegame / loadgame compatibility?
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10:26<Samu>from my testings, there is no apparent issues with backward compatibility
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10:34<Samu>saving the game with max_no_competitors set to 15 with load fine on the old client version, it just reverts it to 14
10:35<Samu>saving the game with max_no_competitors set to 15 with load fine on the same client version, will still have it set to 15
10:36<Samu>seems to be working
10:38<Samu>do I need to test something else?
10:39<Samu>seems odd that it's working, when you were telling me that the number 14 wasn't chosen on a whim
10:39<Samu>what else must I check?
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10:54<Samu>hi Alberth please help
10:56<@Alberth>/me gives Samu a tea
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>"Reddid has removed a paragraph from its transparency report that it never received a 'national security letter' or other secret request by law enforcement agencies to disclose data"
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>also, Genscher died. :/
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>now that is a person who probably had a big (but very indirect) influence on my life
11:08<@Alberth>Samu: administrator logging in?
11:09<Samu>what is that?
11:09<@Alberth>MP, server owner, logging in to fix problems
11:09<@Alberth>how are you going to do that with 15 AIs?
11:10<Samu>uhm, is that the rcon command?
11:11<Samu>sorry i'm not familiar
11:11<@Alberth>I don't know, I never manage MP games
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11:11<@Alberth>I don't even run them
11:11<@Alberth>hi hi andy
11:14<@Alberth>tbh I don't even understand why 14 AIs isn't enough
11:14<andythenorth>hi Alberth
11:15<@Alberth>MP game completely filled with AIs is just madness, imho
11:15<ST2>Samu is a voyeur, I guess xD
11:15<Samu>st2, how do i administrator loggin in ?
11:16<ST2>server side?
11:16<Samu>no idea
11:16<ST2>if that, check rcon password
11:16<Samu>both sides
11:16<ST2>set in openttd.cfg
11:16<Samu>i didn't set a password
11:16<Samu>can i set a pass with the server still running?
11:17<ST2>that I have no idea - never done it :S
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11:19<Samu>rcon_password, admin_password, server_password, which one is it?
11:19<Samu>rcon, ok
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11:24<Samu>i was able to send a message
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11:25<Samu>rcon 123 "say test", message was sent
11:25<Samu>what do i need to test exactly Alberth ?
11:28<@Alberth>like I said, I never managed any MP game, how would I know?
11:30<Samu>t.t ST2, halp
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11:41<Samu>I don't undestand this admin_password. what is this for
11:41<Samu>isn't rcon the same?
11:42<ST2>admin_password is to connect to admin port (I think :)
11:43<Samu>uhm :( what's an admin port? :8
11:45<Samu>3977? that is not forwarded
11:45<Samu>only 3979-3986 are
11:46<ST2>you only need it if you use some kind of listner software
11:46<ST2>again, I think - I'm kinda noob on those matters ^^
11:46<Samu>i thought you were in charge of 50 btpro servers :8
11:47<ST2>28, but don't know all specifics by heart
11:48<Samu>you enter them with rcon command?
11:48<Samu>can you enter mine?
11:48<ST2>no, but because of the software controller we use
11:48<Samu>if you know the rcon pass?
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11:49<ST2>well, I have access to servers (machines themselves) - so, yes I know rcon pw ^^
11:49<ST2>previous link: as I said, if you dnt use some admin port listener, won't need/use admin port
11:50<ST2>so no need to forward it
11:50<Samu>ok, try messing around in this server, see what you can manage to do, there's 15 AI's rcon_password = 123
11:51<ST2><<-- @ work
11:51<Samu>i don't really know what Alberth wanted me to try
11:51<ST2>games dnt combine well here ^^
11:51<Samu>oh :8 ok
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11:53<Samu>admin_password = 456
11:53<Samu>but I dont have port 3977 forwarded :(
11:53<Samu>so i remove admin pass?
11:54<Wolf01>meh, broke visual studio with the update... no work today
11:54<@Alberth>just type code, without compiling :)
11:55<Wolf01>nah, I need to compile it
11:55<Wolf01>also I would like intellisense
11:56<Samu>brb removing admin_password
11:56<@Alberth>oh, microsoft name for auto completions :)
11:57<andythenorth>oh bollocks
11:57<andythenorth>the conflicting industry code is still C-Pre-Processor macros
11:57<andythenorth>I can port it, just means conflict checks will take longer to add than I hoped
11:58<@Alberth>I did see a list of conflicting industries somewhere-ish
11:58<andythenorth>there are lists on each industry
11:58<andythenorth>manually maintained
11:58<@Alberth>but not used?
11:58<andythenorth>out of date
11:59<Samu>how do i remove a password? tried leaving the setting empty
11:59<Samu>but it just tells the urrent password
11:59<andythenorth>I could feed the python property from the python conflict check
11:59<andythenorth>and leave the templating untouched
12:01<@Alberth>yeah, I'd consider it 2 problems, getting the list less outdated, and generation of the checks :)
12:01<andythenorth>I wanted to make the checks economy aware, because there might be a fractional perfomance implication
12:02<andythenorth>probably minimal at best
12:02<@Alberth>sounds likely, as it's only done while building a new industry
12:04<Samu>think i got it
12:04<Samu>setting network.admin_password ""
12:04<Samu>no password set now
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12:12<andythenorth>well let’s see...
12:16<andythenorth>Alberth: (I slept little, and am being stupid)
12:16<andythenorth>I want to import chk_ind_compatibility to
12:16<andythenorth>but that’s a circular import...
12:19<@Alberth>that doesn't usually work :)
12:20<andythenorth>not so much
12:20<@Alberth>not sure what it needs there, maybe you can pass it through parameters?
12:20<andythenorth>I just need to call it from Industry methods
12:21<andythenorth>actually there’s probably another way
12:21<@Alberth>you can work around the import by moving it into the code, but euhm, hacky :)
12:22<andythenorth>Industry is already a god file :)
12:33<andythenorth>Alberth: do you have output from
12:36<andythenorth>the file is python 2, right? o_O
12:37<andythenorth>I ported it to python 3, but something else is amiss locally
12:37<andythenorth>I think I’ll come back to this one :)
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12:43*andythenorth tries to teach RV pathfinder to stay out of some tiles, depending on road subtype
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13:02<andythenorth>looks like GetTileTrackStatus() is the place to patch
13:14<andythenorth>maybe not
13:21<Wolf01>meh, VS doesn't see that the universal app tools are already installed
13:21<Wolf01>I even tried to reinstall it :(
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13:25<andythenorth>hmm Eddi suggested IndividualRoadVehicleController
13:26<andythenorth>or so
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13:28<andythenorth>etc :)
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13:37<frosch123>you have 1 hour left to report typos in the changelog :)
13:38<frosch123>does this highlight l_n ?
13:39<frosch123>@seen *ln*
13:39<@DorpsGek>frosch123: *ln* could be __ln__ (10 weeks, 1 day, 19 hours, 32 minutes, and 59 seconds ago), __ln___ (18 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 34 minutes, and 48 seconds ago), __ln_ (37 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 2 minutes, and 58 seconds ago), Invulner (2 years, 0 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 1 minute, and 8 seconds ago), michelNL (2 years, 11 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 26 minutes, and 38 seconds ago), SOULNCHAIN (3 years, 10 weeks, (2 more messages)
13:40*andythenorth already did the FIRS 2.0.0 tag
13:40<andythenorth>so if I made errors in my changelog, I’m screwed :D
13:40<andythenorth>hmm, somewhere, there must be a simple check that the tile has compatible roadtype on it
13:41<andythenorth>but is it in vehicle, or road, or pathfinder :P
13:41<@Alberth>changelog looks good to me
13:41<@Alberth>probably in expanding to neighbour tiles in the path finder
13:42<andythenorth>I think I am confused between vehicle movement, and pathfinding so far
13:42*andythenorth assumes roadtype must be irrelevant for movement
13:43<andythenorth>it’s only when entering a tile that type must be checked?
13:43<frosch123>andythenorth: src/pathfinder/follow_track.hpp and src/road_cmd.cpp
13:44<andythenorth>I assumed GetTileTrackStatus_Road() but I can’t see any case for normal road there
13:44<andythenorth>only special handling for depots etc
13:45<frosch123>that is one of the two functions
13:45<frosch123>sub_mode is the roadtype
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27530 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2016-04-01 19:45:37 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan: 2 changes by juanjo
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13:46<frosch123>RoadType rt = (RoadType)FindFirstBit(sub_mode); <- that one for example
13:46<andythenorth>‘sub_mode’ exists, and I have added ‘subtype’ also
13:46<andythenorth>not confusing at all
13:46<frosch123>you likely need to extend sub_mode so it contains both the road/tram flag as well as your new road/tram subtype
13:47<frosch123>if ((GetRoadTypes(tile) & sub_mode) == 0) break; <- likely it is then sufficient to extend that check with your subtype
13:47<frosch123>the second function you need to change is VehicleEnter_Road
13:48<frosch123>the thirs is CFollowTrackT::GetSingleTramBit
13:48<frosch123>that should be enough
13:52<andythenorth>great :)
13:53<Samu>some suggestions for the AI/Game Script Window: inside the "AIs" window, expand the size of the list so that the entire list is visible without having to scroll up or down"
13:53<frosch123>i guess you may need something like sub_mode = road_types | road_subtype << 8 | tram_subtype << 16
13:54<Samu>also, each line should be numbered, from #1 to 15
13:54<Samu>then instead of having a Configure button, have the parameters display immediately on a panel to the right
13:54<frosch123>1 to 15 would be misleading
13:55<frosch123>that would look like company numbers
13:55<Samu>just highlighing an AI from the list, would immediately display its parameters on the panel
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13:55<frosch123>Samu: make it consistent with newgrf gui
13:56<Samu>with presets?
13:56<Samu>that window is too complex for me
14:00<Samu>1 to 15 is misleading?
14:01*andythenorth goes back to first principles: bitwise AND of GetRoadTypes(tile) & sub_mode
14:02<andythenorth>I get 0 if both bits are 0?
14:02<andythenorth>and 1 if both bits are 1?
14:03<@Alberth>x and y == 1 only happens when x == 1 and y == 1
14:03<@Alberth>x or y == 1 only happens when x == 1 or y == 1 (or both)
14:04<Samu>the misleading part for me is related with how the window interacts with the max number of competitors settings.
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14:06<Samu>if i set a max number of 5 AIs, the list allows me to configure the slots from 2 to 6, slot 1 is always assumed to be human
14:07<Samu>if the game is multiplayer, some other human joins in and takes company 3 slot, the max no of competitor settings will still end up starting 5 companies, but will not be able to use the settings from the slot 3
14:08<Samu>we got company 1 and 3 humans, then 2, 4, 5 ,6, 7 as AIs, but I was not able to configure slot 7
14:08<Samu>it starts a Random AI
14:10<Samu>and I have no real idea how to make this more flexible
14:10<Samu>each line is tied to a company #
14:17<Samu>for now, the only feasible thing I can think of, is to get rid of the limitation
14:18<Samu>no interaction between max no competitors and the list
14:18<Samu>but won't fix the real problem
14:23*andythenorth tried to make ROADTYPE_ROAD drive on tram by ORing the RoadBits
14:23<andythenorth>but nah
14:23<andythenorth>didn’t work
14:24<Samu>must find a way to untie line position from company id#
14:25<@Alberth>track next unused line, while walking over companies
14:25<@Alberth>or find next company while walking over lines
14:27<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27531 /branches/1.6 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2016-04-01 20:27:37 +0200 )
14:27<@DorpsGek>[1.6] -Update: Documentation
14:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27532 /tags/1.6.0 (11 files in 3 dirs) (2016-04-01 20:32:32 +0200 )
14:32<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.6.0
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14:40<andythenorth>ha bananaramas only knows about old OpenTTD versions
14:43<sim-al2>>Release: 1.6.0
14:44*sim-al2 goes to
14:44<sim-al2>I guess that's not how things work though
14:47<@Alberth>this was just the commit, you need a little patience to get the binaries built
14:47<Samu>thx supermop, now what the heck is a foundation :(
14:47<Samu>I'm sad
14:48<Samu>for the sprites for testing
14:48<@Alberth>piece of wall to make the tile flat
14:51<supermop>the foundations are already in base sets
14:52<andythenorth>meh, forums list formatting is a PITA :)
14:53<@Alberth>use ascii editor, copy+paste :)
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14:54<andythenorth>all wiki & forum formatting is evil :)
14:55<andythenorth>either respect tabs, or give me html :)
14:55<andythenorth>most do neither :P
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15:01<Samu>(8) SLOPE_N, (13) SLOPE_ENW, (29) SLOPE_STEEP_N
15:02<Samu>that's the slopes you provided
15:02<Samu>now, I don't even know how to put them to use
15:03<andythenorth>patience grasshopper
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15:20<andythenorth>I commented out // if (side != INVALID_DIAGDIR && (DiagDirToRoadBits(side) & bits) == 0) break;
15:20<andythenorth>and am confused why road vehicles aren’t now behaving unusually
15:24<andythenorth>nvm :)
15:25*andythenorth usually learns by trying to break stuff
15:25<andythenorth>and then triggering alerts or odd behaviour
15:25<andythenorth>alert / assert /s
15:26<@Alberth>I try that too, every now and then :)
15:33<supermop>samu does the approach make sense
15:33<supermop>that we can cut up the existing ogfx+ rapids to make the slopes?
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15:39<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.6.0
15:39-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.6.0 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | if this channel is really spammy
15:40<Samu>hey supermop, I am clueless, honestly, I don't know what to do at this point.
15:40<Samu>I'm not familiar with foundations
15:42<andythenorth>FIRS release to forums is so emotionally rewarding :P
15:42<Samu>I'd like to test the slopes you gave me, but i have no idea how to even make use of them
15:42<supermop>you wont need foundations for those
15:42<andythenorth>at least my road vehicle is now refusing to drive on certain road tiles
15:42<@Alberth>great :)
15:42<andythenorth>I think this _might_ not be complete though o_O
15:42<andythenorth>if (road_subtype != 0) break;
15:43<@Alberth>I hope it's not even/off tiles, or you get nowhere :p
15:43<supermop>samu what seems to be the problem - they should work similar to the existing ogfx river slopes
15:46<Samu>gonna write some random code
15:46<andythenorth>you need to find the drawing routine, if you haven’t already
15:47<andythenorth>and patch in some new sprite numbers
15:47<Samu>and see what intellisense complains
15:47<supermop>i don't how else to explain
15:47<andythenorth>and modify the magic newgrf that ottd uses for extra stuff
15:47<andythenorth>I can’t remember if that auto-compiles, or if you have to do it manually with grfcodec
15:49*andythenorth drew those sprites, much regret :P
15:49<andythenorth>yeah, you’ll need to extend the nfo to provide new sprites
15:49<andythenorth>it only _sounds_ hard :)
15:50<Samu>aha, i found that folder: media/extra_grf/rivers
15:51<andythenorth>ha, I’ve got a vehicle stuck in a loop on a tile it should not have entered :)
15:51<andythenorth>clearly more to do
15:51<Samu>I'm slow lol
15:51<Samu>ok i put the png there
15:52<Samu>now i need to make the code make use of it
15:52<andythenorth>need to extend the nfo
15:52<andythenorth>.nfo files
15:52<Samu>yes, i see those in the same folder, interesting
15:52<supermop>what i am suggesting samu, is just like how i cut up the slopes to reassemble,
15:53<Samu>there's 4 tilesets even
15:53<supermop>maybe your code can make whatever slop it needs by cutting parts of the existing ones
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15:54<supermop>and choose from those 4 or so options so you get exponential amount of pseudo-random possibilities?
15:54<supermop>if thats too hard i can just manually make the other needed slopes
15:55<supermop>what about a river that only runs along the bottom of a slope though - we don't need or want any water shown on the sloped face - only the flat bottom?
15:56<Samu>I envision it requiring river being on both flat and sloped
15:57<andythenorth>it will be a faster patch initially if there’s no compositing of sprites, is my guess
15:57<andythenorth>current river sprites are composited
15:57<andythenorth>but I would guess that means writing more code
15:57<supermop>andythenorth: yeah, just imagining a future with less repetition in graphics
15:57<supermop>and less drawing by me
15:58<andythenorth>time-to-working patch is what matters initially :)
15:58<Samu>the river borders are dependant on the surrounding tiles
15:58<Samu>i see
15:58<supermop>so you might end up with imposible things like a river running sideways along a slope
15:59<Samu>yes, just like in the picture
15:59<supermop>andythenorth: computer time cheaper than artist time
16:00<andythenorth>works for road, but trams are entering a tile they shouldn’t be, then getting stuck
16:00<supermop>yep looks like some code
16:01<supermop>that happend if a real tram drives onto the pavement too
16:04<Samu>how do i edit the .nfo files? ;( need a special program?
16:04<Samu>i can't quite get the coding style in that file
16:04<drac_boy>nfo is just text
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16:05<Samu>i think you mean numbers
16:05<Samu>not much text
16:05<drac_boy>abit sometimes line breaks may be omitted
16:05<drac_boy>samu .. *.num doesn't really exist unless you're thinking of numeric :)
16:05<Samu> -1 sprites/rapids.png 8bpp 10 10 64 23 -31 0 normal
16:06<Samu>need a guide for deciphering this
16:06<drac_boy>thats the sprite position line I believe
16:07<Samu> found something
16:07<andythenorth>those are action 1s or so
16:08<andythenorth>it’s ok once you understand how to read the bytes
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16:26*andythenorth wonders at tram magic
16:27<supermop>trams are magic, i miss them
16:27<supermop>not sure about 3 billion to build one in williamsburg though
16:28<andythenorth>I don’t think it’s GetSingleTramBit that allows the tram to enter a tile with wrong subtype
16:28<drac_boy>heh I only like certain trams but too many of them are either rusty plastic and/or bad city planning route-wise
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16:35<supermop>a tram shows a civic minded commitment and sacrifice that buses do not
16:36<supermop>and allow neighborhoods to plan themselves around a certain fixture
16:36<supermop>whereas a bus line can easily be cancelled
16:36<supermop>or curtailed
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16:40<drac_boy>well sumpermop the problem is the street was there first usually
16:40<drac_boy>plus forget about being able to detour a service without keeping non-tram buses on backup
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16:41<drac_boy>(just saying)
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16:42<andythenorth>well I can’t fix RVs
16:42<andythenorth>and forums have delivered the usual slap in the face to 1 year’s work
16:43<andythenorth>Valued Opinions
16:43<frosch123>eints can now operate on git repositories
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16:45<frosch123>he, no fishing in arctic? :p
16:46<andythenorth>nah, fish are everywhere
16:46<andythenorth>I did a diff of Arctic against Temperate
16:46<andythenorth>there were about 4 differences
16:46<andythenorth>_so_ boring
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16:46<frosch123>all fish are extinct in arctic now
16:47<andythenorth>fishing is not that big a deal in Scandinavia
16:47<andythenorth>I thought it was, but it’s not, so eh
16:47<andythenorth>drilling dead fish out the ground in black liquid form is the major money earner
16:47<andythenorth>and making tractor
16:49<andythenorth>no release post frosch123? o_O
16:49<supermop>andythenorth: and chainsaws and sewing machines
16:49<frosch123>no, want to write on?
16:49*andythenorth wants to go to bed :P
16:49<andythenorth>I was only sticking around to do \o/ in encouragement
16:50<supermop>and a car that drains its battery every night so yu have to push start it by walking it along with one leg out the door
16:50<andythenorth>“1.6.0 is done. Changelog: [url]"
16:50<frosch123>andythenorth: only rcs need a post
16:50<frosch123>when we did no post, there were like 1/4 of testers
16:50<frosch123>but, who cares about the release?
16:51<frosch123>maybe someone provides a haiku in a few days :)
16:51<andythenorth>well in that case
16:51<andythenorth>1.6.0 \o/
16:51<andythenorth>and bed
16:51<andythenorth>tomorrow, I fight RVS again :P
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17:08<Tedjam>Any assistance? Setting up a server 1.5.3 on Ubu; Cant seem to find it on server list. server_advertise is true, and ports *should* be working, hit me for any more details
17:09<@DorpsGek>frosch123: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
17:09<frosch123>you need to forwards those ports in your router
17:11<Tedjam>Im using my AWS EC2, so its in the security groups settings -> I've set inbound rules for UDP and TCP 3979 and UDP 3978, and outbound is set to all traffic
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17:21<+glx>checked the server list ingame or on ?
17:26<Samu>please help me decipher these numbers
17:26<Samu> -1 sprites/rapids.png 8bpp 10 10 64 23 -31 0 normal
17:27<Samu>10 10 is the coordinates where the image beings in that .png file?
17:28<Samu>then 64 23 is the size of one of the actual sprites inside the .png
17:28<Samu>what about the other numbers?
17:28<Samu>or am i seeing this wrong?
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17:49<+glx>offsets maybe
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18:30<Supercheese>Well, FIRS has gone with April 1 release, even if OTTD itself hasn't
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18:40<sim-al2>1.6.0 now online
18:41<Samu_>did I get the numbers right for these sprites?
18:41<Samu_>i renamed the file, btw
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18:42<Supercheese>I see 1.6.0 release candidate
18:42<Supercheese>but not necessarily 1.6.0 stable
18:43<Supercheese>oh it's there just no news post
18:44<Samu_>who's a master expert on .nfo?
18:44<Samu_>that could help
18:50<Supercheese>maybe Pokka
18:50<Supercheese>but he ain't here
18:50<Samu_>I'm screwed :(
18:51<Supercheese>so.... use NML...?
18:51<Samu_>poor supermod designed the sprites and now i don't know what to do with them
18:51<Samu_>but the file is .nfo
18:52<Samu_>let me get you a better link
18:54<Samu_>what I got so far was: each block of 4 is a variant
18:54<Samu_>there are 16 variants
18:54<Samu_>only 4 slopes are there
18:55<Samu_>I need to edit in 14 more slopes in, each with 16 variants
18:57<Samu_>supermop gave me 3 slopes, each with 2 variants
18:57<Samu_>hmm :(
18:59<Supercheese>I have no idea what that file is talking about, sorry
19:00<Samu_>about rapids.png
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19:00<Samu_>this image
19:02<Samu_>the image contains 4 colums, those are the slopes, and 16 rows, those are the variants
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19:03<Samu_>14 * 16
19:04<Samu_>224 sprites missing, keks :(
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 02 00:00:09 2016