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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-02

---Logopened Sat Apr 02 00:00:09 2016
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02:02<andythenorth>bah
02:25<andythenorth>checksums don’t match for 1.6.0
02:26<andythenorth>nvm, EBKAC
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02:57<andythenorth>lo Alberth
02:57<@Alberth>hi hi
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03:24<Wolf01>o/
03:29<@Alberth>o/
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03:35<Wolf01>mmmh my phone is downloading something... uses full bandwidth and did it for the entire night
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03:42*andythenorth plays FIRS Arctic Basic economy
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04:39<frosch123>"no fish in firs", "where is 1.6.0 when firs is there" and "child's patch pack" <- the forum is on fire :)
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05:04<andythenorth>lawks indeed
05:04<andythenorth>makes it all worthwhile eh? :P
05:15*andythenorth had to be a better person about Leif’s post
05:15<andythenorth>if that had been written by an English person, it would read as fighting talk
05:15<andythenorth>highly offensive
05:17<andythenorth>I am going to assume that non-English speaker’s don’t understand how polite grievance is a code for aggression in native UK English :P
05:17<andythenorth>speakers *
05:18<andythenorth>blah blah blah blah andythenorth
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06:01<Samu>hi
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06:56<Eddi|zuHause>no matter how often i bag tt-forums to "remember me", it never does :/
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>hey. there's a sane suggestion. how did that happen?
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07:04<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: does forums randomly bin your auth cookie, or do you never get remembered ever?
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07:08<Eddi|zuHause>...
07:08<Samu>I'm lost
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, it's more like "randomly" rather than "never"
07:08<Samu>I don't know what to do
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07:10<@Alberth>moin
07:10<Samu>Alberth: guide me , im completely lost
07:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: my cookie gets binned for no obvious reason
07:11<andythenorth>it doesn’t look like time-based expiry
07:11<Samu>i am working on the river sprites at the moment
07:11<@Alberth>second door on the left, I think
07:11<andythenorth>might be due to network change, but that seems odd
07:11<andythenorth>Samu: go north
07:11<andythenorth>there is a cat here
07:11<andythenorth>the cat is smiling
07:11<andythenorth>there is cheese next to the cat
07:11<@Alberth>and you lost a mouse?
07:11<Eddi|zuHause>> pet cat
07:12<andythenorth>there are some mouse bones behind the cat
07:12<andythenorth>the cat purrs
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>> pet cat
07:12<Samu>eh, i got a cat on my lap
07:12<Samu>what a coincidence
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>i'm afraid that "go west" results in "you have died of dysentery"
07:15<Samu>i have in hands 2 projects
07:15<Samu>one is the max no competitors the other is the missing river sprites
07:15<Eddi|zuHause>and no, it has nothing to do with network changes
07:17<Samu>currently I'm focused on the 2nd project: i'm trying to know what I need to do to have the sprites that supermop gave me, displayed in-game, but this is too confusing
07:19<Samu>the code, and that means, openttd code, is not prepared to display them sprites, no matter what gfx i load, so i got to code openttd as well as opengfx in tandem
07:20<andythenorth>yes
07:20<Samu>what do i have to do first?
07:20<andythenorth>I would start by coding the openttd side
07:20<andythenorth>and use ‘wrong’ sprites
07:20<andythenorth>get the drawing figured out, then swap the correct sprites in later
07:36*andythenorth ponders a pax production factor
07:36<andythenorth>which is tied to number of destinations in the local linkgraph
07:41<@Alberth>moving pax? :)
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07:42<andythenorth>it would be _really_ bad for small villages :P
07:43<andythenorth>it would need some kind of inverse scale by population
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07:44*andythenorth finds cdist is a disincentive to joining pax networks
07:44<andythenorth>which seems a bit sad :)
07:47<@Alberth>all those millions you're not going to get :)
07:48<andythenorth>I don’t like flooded stations
07:48<andythenorth>not that my suggestion solves that :P
07:58<@Alberth>moar capacity is the only solution there :p
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08:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: all these production factor ideas have already been tried and dismissed
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>if your stations are too crowded, you can try bumping the distance influence, so people take shorter trips
08:11<argoneus>good morning train friends
08:11<argoneus>who /aceattorney/ here
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08:13<Eddi|zuHause>you always talk in such riddles...
08:13<Kilo>Ive just set up my own dedicated server, and want to be able to give a player/ company money, is that possible through the console or editing of the save?
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>no, giving money out of thin air is only available through a GameScript
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08:14<Eddi|zuHause>man good that we talked about that.
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08:15<Eddi|zuHause>(that was probably a terrible translation)
08:16<TresKilo>I've set up me own dedicated server, I'm wondering if I can give a company money through the console or through editing of the save file? Is it possible??
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>no, giving money out of thin air is only available through a GameScript
08:17<TresKilo>Where might i find more bout GameScripts?
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>in the forum
08:17<@Alberth>wiki too
08:17<TresKilo>Danke!
08:18<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Game_script
08:19<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: distance influence has to be 0 if you wish to use cdist for freight
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well, there's your problem.
08:19<andythenorth>isn’t it just
08:20<@Alberth>can be a bit more than 0 too :)
08:21<@Alberth>never actually tried using it that low :)
08:21<andythenorth>splitting more cdist settings has been talked about before
08:21<andythenorth>but maybe that is the one to split
08:22<@Alberth>mail becomes a puzzle then?
08:23<andythenorth>because mail is produced in lower quantities, I find there’s less of a problem
08:24<@Alberth>hmm, nobody is playing large post offices :p
08:25<@Alberth>although it's likely much like pax
08:28*andythenorth plays NARS 2 for larks
08:28<andythenorth>so many new engines 1950-1960
08:28<andythenorth>:P
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08:35<TresKilo>Sorry again, i have no idea where to start with making a gamescript to add money to a player/ company, any ideas?
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>somebody might already have done something like this.
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09:40<uij2>is there an easy way to check when vehicles or technologies will be available inside the game?
09:40<andythenorth>no
09:40<andythenorth>date cheat? o_O
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09:41<drac_boy>hi
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09:43<drac_boy>still got same old internet issues?
09:44<@Alberth>you already get nice preview test options by the manufacturers
09:44<sim-al2>Yeah, AT&T sucks
09:45<sim-al2>But Comcast doesn't sound good either
09:46<drac_boy>well both are effing monopolistic ... what can you say? :-/
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09:46<drac_boy>that aside hows you tho?
09:46<sim-al2>I'm good
09:49<drac_boy>doing ok here..just trying to find some stations :)
09:56<drac_boy>almost done finding the photos I'm needing tho heh
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09:59<drac_boy>btw sim..how would you feel if you were sitting in the cupola of a caboose on the tail of freight train and actually seeing your train's locomotive up front through the rear window? :)
09:59<drac_boy>apparently d&rgw had one curve that almost went back onto top of itself and one photographer riding with the brakeman managed to catch such a photo :->
10:00<sim-al2>Not a small bit of curvature there
10:01<andythenorth>theachapi
10:03<drac_boy>andythenorth maybe but that one actually crosses itself tho
10:04<drac_boy>anyway back to a bit more stations for me here :->
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10:10<drac_boy>http://img.scoop.it/90kAibbgRmJxRiCdj3Ui_Tl72eJkfbmt4t8yenImKBVvK0kTmF0xjctABnaLJIm9 interesting gathering of post buses :)
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10:24<sim-al2>Brb getting my train out of the park spot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVmWGW-tOxw
10:25<sim-al2>*parking lot
10:28<drac_boy>heh I always wondered about these particular trains that have just 1-3 bilevel in the middle of otherwise-conventional wagons
10:36<sim-al2>They're basically first class (green car is the name used) for passengers taking longer journeys on these trains
10:37<andythenorth>stupid city is all fountains
10:37<Samu>what is 1 << 0, 1 << 1, 1 << 2?
10:38<sim-al2>Unlike the inner city lines, the suburban trains make long journeys, up to 200 km per run if you count the trains that run through the Ueno-Toyko line to the other side of the city
10:38<drac_boy>hmm I see
10:38<Samu>nevermind, i think i know what it is
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that happens usually when no other building is available for a zone
10:42*drac_boy still likes the "love trains" in japan :)
10:42<andythenorth>this is default subarctic, no town grf, no patch
10:42<andythenorth>1964
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's no reason why the statement would be invalid
10:51<Flygon>drac_boy needs more violin in his life
10:52<Flygon>https://youtu.be/0q6nDCDHIvg?t=2880 VIOLINS DRAC_BOY DO YOU SPEAK THEM
10:53<Flygon>:D
10:53<Flygon>Evenin'
10:54*drac_boy wonders if I should twack flygon with a loose guitar string? :)
10:55-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd
10:55<Flygon>drac_boy: Wrong track.
11:05<drac_boy>anyway you all have fun, I'm going off for now
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11:05<andythenorth>hmm
11:05<andythenorth>Silicon Valley will beat me again :)
11:07<andythenorth>20 years, 5 industries
11:08<@Alberth>no basecostmod?
11:09<@Alberth>5 industries sounds somewhat expensive :)
11:10<frosch123>didn't firs feature quite cheap ones?
11:16<andythenorth>approximately
11:16<andythenorth>but not these ones
11:16<andythenorth>and no basecostmod :D
11:16<andythenorth>maybe that’s a FIRS parameter :P
11:17*andythenorth tries to patch roads some more
11:18<frosch123>we need to increase the maximum newgrf count in a game to 4096
11:18<andythenorth>yes, I’ve been thinking about that for some time
11:18<andythenorth>I wondered about making one newgrf per vehicle
11:18<andythenorth>the compile times would be wonderful
11:19<frosch123>we also need regular expression selection to add newgrfs to a game
11:19<andythenorth>xml
11:20<andythenorth>so I can prevent road vehicles entering a tile with incompatible subtype
11:20<andythenorth>but not trams
11:20<andythenorth>and once the tram is in the tile, it’s stuck, goes round in circles
11:21<andythenorth>I have read the code for tram reversing and single bit tiles, but am none the wiser about what causes this problem
11:22<frosch123>try roadveh_cmd.cpp:1222
11:22<andythenorth>thanks
11:25<andythenorth>so it’s trying to turn round, but entering the next tile?
11:25<andythenorth>then is stuck there
11:26<andythenorth>those nested ‘ifs’ are quite unpleasant :D
11:33<andythenorth>this code is weird
11:33<andythenorth>there is a huge if condition around a comment
11:33<frosch123>it's about trams not getting stuck :)
11:34<andythenorth>yeah
11:34<frosch123>trams cannot reverse on a dead end
11:34<andythenorth>so there’s a big ‘do nothing’ case
11:34<andythenorth>and two other cases
11:34<frosch123>if the player can fix it, it is blamed on the player
11:34<frosch123>if the next tile is blocked, ottd fixes it for the player
11:34<andythenorth>I’m not an 80 char pedant, but I only have a 13” screen, so this is hard to read :)
11:35<frosch123>change your tab width?
11:35<andythenorth>nah, I’ll just grumble about it
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>hit the button for auto-linebreaks?
11:35<andythenorth>so I need to stop or reverse the tram within same tile
11:36<andythenorth>so the first case
11:36<andythenorth>GetRoadBits(tile, ROADTYPE_TRAM)) != ROAD_NONE
11:36<andythenorth>will be true
11:36<andythenorth>but the subtype is incompatible
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>i think the point was to just let the tram be stuck without turning around
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>then add the subtype check to this condition
11:37<andythenorth>let’s see
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11:41<andythenorth>solved :D
11:42<frosch123>i also found src/pathfinder/npf/npf.cpp:713 while grepping
11:42<frosch123>so, if you care about npf :)
11:44<andythenorth>blearch :)
11:47<andythenorth>if I was smart, there’d be some way to AND the roadbits with (vehicle subtype == tile subtype)
11:47<andythenorth>per tram or road vehicle also
11:47<andythenorth>currently my plan is to write rather long if statements :P
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11:50<andythenorth>current state of my patch http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7727/NotRoadTypes.diff
11:50<andythenorth>I can’t put this in forums for obvious reasons
11:50<frosch123>"i want a windows binary"?
11:51<andythenorth>“it doesn’t fix overtaking"
11:51<frosch123>trolley busses cannot overtake?
11:52<andythenorth>ha ha ha
11:52<andythenorth>I suppose I should fake the subtype into the vehicle next
11:52<andythenorth>then eventually connect it to newgrf
11:52<andythenorth>then extend newgrf spec
11:52<andythenorth>patch nmlc, grfcodec, maybe renum
11:52<andythenorth>update the wiki
11:52<andythenorth>then I can make a test grf :P
11:53<frosch123>i dropped renum :)
11:53<andythenorth>ha
11:53*andythenorth wonders
11:53<andythenorth>grfcodec has to remain supported, if only for decompiling case, and stations
11:54<andythenorth>can’t be helped
11:54<frosch123>grfcodec needs to remain for openttd.grf :)
11:54<frosch123>otherwise you get circular dependencies between nml and ottd
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11:54<andythenorth>lawks
11:54<frosch123>but renum is useless
11:54<andythenorth>if we change nothing, grfcodec does not need maintaining :D
11:55<frosch123>grfcodec never needs maintaining
11:56*andythenorth ponders
11:56<andythenorth>so NotRoadTypes needs a ‘convert’ tool, otherwise it will suck to use
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11:58<andythenorth>or I could try and patch shunting? o_O
11:58<andythenorth>apparently, it’s the new feature request that won’t die
11:58<frosch123>what do you want to convert?
11:58<andythenorth>between subtypes
11:58<andythenorth>I wondered about overbuild, but I think it’s prone to user error
11:59<andythenorth>I assumed I would look at rail convert tool for ideas
11:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27533 /trunk/bin/baseset (orig_dos.obg orig_win.obg) (2016-04-02 17:59:14 +0200 )
11:59<@DorpsGek>-Update: Baseset translations
12:00<Snail>hey don’t touch grfcodec :p
12:01<Snail>frosch123: why did you drop renum?
12:02<Snail>renum is very useful… and in the current state of things, it gives me lots of false alarms
12:02<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27534 trunk/src/newgrf_commons.h (2016-04-02 18:02:22 +0200 )
12:02<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6435]: [NewGRF] Station spritelayouts did not accept the var10 flag for the palette.
12:02<andythenorth>when I used renum, I had a substantial number of error suppression flags
12:03<frosch123>Snail: it's not useful to me, it's only work
12:04<andythenorth>Snail: take over as maintainer? o_O
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12:13<Snail>heh. I don’t know c++
12:13<andythenorth>neither do I
12:13<Snail>I guess it’s needed to mantain nforenum?
12:13<andythenorth>I am not sure, it might be ASM or something, no idea
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12:14<andythenorth>I don’t know c++ either, but I have got a game running here with 2 types of road and 3 types of tram track
12:14<andythenorth>so eh?
12:14<Snail>nice
12:15<Snail>btw I’d be one more person who would love the shunting feature :D
12:16<andythenorth>never ever ever happening in the current game
12:16<andythenorth>not even possible conceptually
12:17<andythenorth>for one thing, too many newgrfs that can do stuff like change capacity subject to lead engine of consist
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12:17<Snail>heh
12:17<Snail>including me :p
12:18<Snail>I mean including my newgrf
12:18<Snail>that’s a good pont
12:18<Snail>*point
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>the solution for that is simple, all these properties will only regard the "fixed" chain that can't be taken apart by shunting (i.e. single wagons, mostly), and don't have access to the parts that are dynamically attached or detached
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>that'll utterly break stuff like 2ccset's "MU wagons"
12:23<Snail>but then it means I won’t be able to change a vehicle’s properties according to the engine type
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>yes
12:23<@Alberth>just like real life :p
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>(it's a terrible idea anyway)
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>but you'd still get the choice: have a fixed engine and can access it, or have a dynamic engine and not access it
12:26<Snail>hehe, well my set is designed around changing the vehicles’ properties according to the engine
12:26<Snail>so shunting won’t work for me anyway
12:28<Snail>the alternative is to define 17,000 IDs for each vehicle type :p
12:28<frosch123>i had a dream: someone made a patch that ships cannot drive through each other and need bays at dock. and then everyone noticed that that makes ships even more useless for playing
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12:29<Eddi|zuHause>i think someone made that patch already :p
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>imho, just the bays would be enough. like airplanes
12:30<andythenorth>peter1138 has a patch for that
12:30<Samu>i can't understand this function
12:30<andythenorth>3 stops at each dock
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12:30<andythenorth>shall we delete ships?
12:31<Samu> DrawWaterSprite(base, offset, feature, tile);
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>can't. compatibility with old savegames forbids it.
12:31<andythenorth>well we could make them non-available in the global toolbar
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>what would that solve?
12:31<@Alberth>you can look but not touch :)
12:32<andythenorth>removes ships
12:32<andythenorth>ships are silly
12:32<andythenorth>and I don’t want to draw them anymore :x
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>trains are silly
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>road vehicles are silly
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>reimplement the game from scratch, only offer pipes
12:33<Samu>i dont understand these functions, calling other functions that call templates and functions and objects... arf... I don't think i can do this alone
12:33*andythenorth considers a pipes patch
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>you suffer from ideacreep
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>you start more projects than you can finish, then complain that you never finish projects
12:34<Samu>and the offset parameters are based out of something
12:34<Samu>based on something that are also based on their own offsets... why
12:34<Samu>I cannot follow this
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12:35<Samu>the something, from what I can tell, is the picture that it's going to draw
12:36<Samu>but the way the functions are arranged to find out what to draw... it's too complex for me
12:36<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: what is the correct number of projects to start? o_O
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>that is impossible to answer
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>it should be more than one, so you can pause a project when you run into a dead end, and continue it later with a fresh head
12:37<andythenorth>find something from logs where I complain I didn’t finish yet? o_O
12:38<andythenorth>rather than just general complaining
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>for like half a year now you complain that you won't finish FIRS in time
12:39<andythenorth>fortunately April 1st happens at a set time, regardless of my complaining :D
12:40<Samu>why are there offsets for offsets? makes it much harder for me to follow intellisense
12:42<Samu>what is a scope?
12:43<Samu>what is a callback
12:43<Samu>nevermind, I better give up for today
12:45<Samu>I'm stuck here
12:45<Samu> case SLOPE_N: DrawWaterSprite(base, offset, feature, tile);
12:45<andythenorth>found the def for DrawWaterSprite()?
12:46<Samu>yes... it's pretty too
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12:47<Samu>it gets an offset of itself, then DrawGroundSprite(base + offset, PAL_NONE);
12:47<Samu>too much offsets, it's confusing, i don't know which offset is which
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12:48<Samu>problem I have right now, is finding out what base or offset to get the correct image from
12:49<Samu>at least I know what the feature and tile are
12:50<Samu>feature is riveredges
12:50<Samu>tile is the current tile I'm working on
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12:54<Samu>this part is what's in there: if the slope is flat and no adjacent tiles are watertiles, draw the edges of the river that are suitable for flat tiles
12:56<Samu>the part i'm trying to "combine" is: if the slope is like SLOPE_N, top corner raised, and no adjacent tiles are watertiles, draw the edges of the river that are suitable for this slope
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12:57<Samu>i just have no idea how to get to that drawing
12:57<andythenorth>I haven’t looked, but the offset is _probably_ either an x/y/z direction offset, or it’s an offset from a sprite number, probably to get the correct tile for the slope
12:58<Samu>the DrawWaterSprite(base, offset.... what is the base? what is the offset?
12:59<Samu>and this is where I am lost, I cannot follow up to the origin of that offset
12:59-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
12:59<andythenorth>find the caller
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13:01<TresKilo>I asked earlier about adding money to a multiplayer company through GameScripts or world save modification (hosted on my server) - There ain't a way to do it through the console. I could not find any pre-written scripts on the forum that do what I would like, anyone have any advice or expertise that they could lend??
13:11<frosch123>[18:30] <Eddi|zuHause> imho, just the bays would be enough. like airplanes <- enough to make ships useless? :p
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: enough to pick the right ship out of the 50 that stack on "full load" orders at the dock...
13:12<frosch123>TresKilo: http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSCompany.html#d910396049f1b27b99e7edb44fa73df1
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's basically impossible to make a proper hub for ships currently
13:13<Samu>if (HasBit(_water_feature[feature].callback_mask, CBM_CANAL_SPRITE_OFFSET)) . this thing is returning false :( it should return true
13:13<Samu>grr
13:14<Samu>feature in this case is = CF_RIVER_EDGE (6)
13:14<Samu>there are river edges, why does it return false?
13:14<Samu>I really don't get this
13:15<andythenorth>bays, but multidock
13:16<andythenorth>one ship per dock, to be mean
13:16<andythenorth>the game is most interesting when routing in confined spaces
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>of course, it's not done by just putting a restriction in. you also need to provide tools to handle the restriction
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>like, i hate airports because there is no way to affect holding patterns and landing priorities
13:19*andythenorth rarely uses airports with that many plays
13:20<andythenorth>plays? planes :P
13:22<TresKilo>frosch123: Thanks for the link! Any help with use of it??
13:23<Samu>SpriteID 7483 - where do I get a list of SpriteIDs? I wanna see what image is this
13:31<frosch123>Samu: sprite alginer
13:32<frosch123>TresKilo: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62163
13:32<andythenorth>Samu: in-game sprite aligner
13:32<andythenorth>7843 is a water rapids tile
13:32<andythenorth>7483 *
13:32<Samu>in-game sprie aligner? what's that?
13:33<Samu>it's a rapids tile and nor a river edge tile?
13:33<Samu>I was expecting an edge
13:33<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debugging
13:33<andythenorth>specifically https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debugging#Sprite_alignment_tool
13:34<TresKilo>frosch123: Nich, Ill check it out
13:34<Samu>wow, that would come useful
13:34<Samu>ty
13:35<andythenorth>it is useful :D
13:37<andythenorth>10 days left to beat SV
13:37<andythenorth>nah
13:38<andythenorth>frosch123 beat me again :P
13:39<frosch123>seems to be your favorite outcome
13:39<andythenorth>if it was easy to win, it would get boring
13:40<andythenorth>losing causes ‘play again’, as long as it’s not over-powered loss :P
13:40<andythenorth>‘play again’ is the long-term meta-game here, no?
13:40<frosch123>how many industries did you build?
13:41<andythenorth>3 out of 5
13:41<andythenorth>I might get silver
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13:45<Eddi|zuHause>i need a new game to play. all the old games are either annoying or boring
13:46<andythenorth>have you tried OpenTTD?
13:46<andythenorth>o_O
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>i fear that will immediately go in the "annoying" category
13:47<andythenorth>eh, well
13:47<andythenorth>it’s not a bad game
13:47<andythenorth>as games go
13:47<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.janko.at/Raetsel/index.htm <- have fun
14:00<@Alberth>http://www.lgdb.org/games more games :)
14:00<TresKilo>frosch123: So I've had a look but still have no idea where to even start with doing the task; All I know is that at some point I will need to use the GSCompany::ChangeBankBalance function - Is is already available to use? And where would I put it inside the main??
14:02<frosch123>TresKilo: https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Introduction <- maybe that helps you
14:02<frosch123>otherwise read some general tutorial about programming
14:05<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: http://dinopoloclub.com/minimetro/
14:05<andythenorth>^ like cdist, but abstract
14:06<andythenorth>I know multiple people who got addicted, then dropped it because it causes weird dreams and agitated sleep :)
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>i considered that, but not feeling it right now...
14:07<andythenorth>Euro Truck Simulator? o_O
14:07<andythenorth>v1 not v2
14:07<andythenorth>v2 falls into crappy uncanny valley territory wrt graphics
14:07*andythenorth wonders if there’s a modern equivalent of Lemmings
14:08<andythenorth>ho, this looks good, from Alberth’s site http://www.lgdb.org/game/the-westport-independent
14:08<frosch123>andythenorth: which type of truck simulator player are you? reckless speeding or do you use the blinker?
14:08<andythenorth>depends
14:09<andythenorth>initially I was careful
14:09<andythenorth>then I found how to edit the savegame for money :P
14:09<andythenorth>also by total fluke, I managed to get past the road-edge once, and into the woods
14:09<andythenorth>where I was able to drive up a mountain, and off into the deep blue nothing
14:10<@Alberth>http://www.lgdb.org/game/big-pharma this looks familiar-ish :p
14:11<andythenorth>adding a road subtype to roadvehicles looks deceptively easy
14:11<andythenorth>I just declare it in struct RoadVehicle ?
14:12<TresKilo>Alright then, Ill try doing that later; But now, how can I load a single player save into the server??
14:15<frosch123>how do you access the server?
14:16<_johannes>Alberth: I just found the bug with the pathfinder :P I did a search and then a search with the train turned around... in between, however, you have to instantiate a new pathfinder variable, I used the one of the previous search
14:17<_johannes>I thought instantiation would not matter at all since instantiation was only used for metaprogramming inside YAPF...
14:17<@Alberth>subtle problem :)
14:17<TresKilo>frosch123: Through PuTTY, SSH and SFTP
14:17<@Alberth>great that you found it
14:17<_johannes>fixed after only 6 days :D
14:18<_johannes>they often do things like Yapf() without actually instantiating anything...
14:18<_johannes>for the pathfinder, one needs to be more careful
14:19<frosch123>TresKilo: copy you save to the server into the savegame directory
14:19<frosch123>start the server with -g <savegame name>
14:19<frosch123>or set up rcon, and use rcon execute "load" commands
14:20<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/Rcon_password#Controlling_the_server_with_rcon
14:20<TresKilo>frosch123: Nice! Just sorting out my GRFs then it should work!!
14:27<Samu>andythenorth: this is really helpful, I am already getting somewhere
14:27<Samu>erm, finally* typo
14:27<andythenorth>:)
14:28<Samu>apparently the compositing of river edges and their corners won't combine that well, need moar sprites
14:29<Samu>:(
14:30<Samu>that green
14:31<Samu>need different tones of green, depending the direction the edge is towards
14:31<andythenorth>yes
14:32<andythenorth>if you make this work, I will then draw new sprites for it to match the original TTD base set
14:32<Samu>how to i "raise" the edge corner, the offset thing
14:33<Samu>on a flat tile, the north corner is set into one place, on a tile with SLOPE_N, I want that corner to go "up"
14:33<Samu>do you understand what I mean?
14:34<TresKilo>frosch123: It worked
14:34<TresKilo>Thanks
14:34<Samu>i think it's the z coordinates
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14:35<_johannes>can a train have the unit number "0" ? can there be even multiple such trains?
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>wagon chains without engine in the depot?
14:36<frosch123>only real chains have a unitnumber
14:37<_johannes>ah of course, thanks!
14:38<Samu>think i discovered it, let me try
14:38<Samu>brb
14:42<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttd-android-translate/repository/revisions/master/show/lang <- how evil :p
14:42<frosch123>lang_sync errors on empty files :)
14:43<Samu>yeah, i need a combination of sprites 7538 with 7531 with the green tones similar to the north corner of sprite 3989
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>what are we looking at?
14:44<Samu>I am looking at river edges, the north corner sprites for a SLOPE_N tile
14:44<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppwljoajq?/ppwljoajq <- Alberth: i guess just ignoring them is enough?
14:45<frosch123>hmm, could print a message
14:45<@Alberth>I wonder how that happens :)
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14:49<@Alberth>frosch123: ah, it's utf-8 already. You could run rstip() on it, for trailing white-space before checking for empty, but otherwise, looks ok
14:49<@Alberth>*rstrip()
14:50<Compu>can someone help me figure out what file im missing or any typos i made in here? http://pastebin.com/7jZmGRtW heres the files window showing all the files http://i.imgur.com/08h3J0j.png
14:50<@Alberth>although it's unlikely people make empty files with just a line whitespace :p
14:51<frosch123>haha, an undertale ottd music set :)
14:51<Compu>heres a list of all the md5sums but i cant figure out where i messed up http://pastebin.com/EscYyPGR
14:51<Compu>frosch123: with mlp and others stuff too
14:51<frosch123>i lacks "spaghetti" in the description
14:51<Compu>mostly mlp
14:51<Compu>its not only undertale
14:52<Compu>its just a bunch of music i wanna be able to play in game
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14:59<Compu>i figured it out
14:59<Compu>CANYON.mid needed to be CANYON.MID
15:01<Compu>frosch123: how do i pack this up for others to easily put into openttd?
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>canyon.mid is a name i haven't heard in a looong time
15:01<@planetmaker>moin
15:01<andythenorth>lo planetmaker
15:02<frosch123>Compu: put in into a directory, and then tar it all up. use tar without compression
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15:02<Compu>easy enough
15:02<Compu>should it be in a directory inside the .tar file or should all the files be at root level?
15:02<frosch123>inside a directory
15:03<Compu>alright
15:03<frosch123>ideally the directory contains some kind of version number
15:03<Compu>i'll just use file roller
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>it is common practice that a tar contains a directory
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>(unless it contains only a single file)
15:05<Compu>done
15:05<Compu>now what
15:06<Compu>any way i can add it to the openttd online content thingy frosch123?
15:07<frosch123>likely you can't due to copyright reasons
15:11<Compu>aww
15:12<Compu>frosch123: well here anyways https://www.dropbox.com/s/xq4nbjostwmh7sg/CompusOpenTTDMSX.tar?dl=0
15:12<Compu>how do people install it from a tar file?
15:17<@Alberth>just drop the file at the right spot, openttd understands tar files
15:17<Compu>ah
15:18<Compu>Alberth: so whats the right spot
15:19<@Alberth>depends on what operating system you have, it's all explained in detail in the readme of the program
15:20<@Alberth>https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/a6407697769f/readme.txt#l267
15:20<Compu>Alberth: u mean somewhere in the dotdir?
15:22<@Alberth>you tried reading?
15:22<@Alberth>I don't know all the places of all the computer systems just like that
15:23<@Alberth>not to mention I don't know how you installed it
15:23<@Alberth>or what access rights you have or not have, and why
15:24<@Alberth>it's literally all described in detail
15:25<Compu>it says music says cant just be put in the directory as a tar file
15:26<Compu>cuz the files need to be read by an external application
15:26<Samu>interesting, sprite 7423 image is equal to 7483, but 7423 is for rivers placed at sea level with nearby shores
15:26<Samu>it looks bad
15:31<Samu>rivers at sea level with nearby shores, hmm... it doesn't appear to be computing the correct edges... i think it could
15:32<Samu>still i better not touch this part of the code, it's not what I should focus
15:32<@planetmaker>depends a bit which rivers you use, Samu. There's a lot of NewGRF code involved in showing the right sprite(s) for river tiles
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16:05<frosch123>Compu: a, true, music is the only type that does not work in tar :p
16:05<frosch123>so, i guess just zip it and let people extract it to the baseset folder
16:05<Compu>bluh
16:05<Compu>i already tarred it, good nuf
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16:35<andythenorth>hmm
16:36<andythenorth>Arctic Basic needs more sources of chemicals
16:36<andythenorth>or more oil on this map :P
16:36<andythenorth>one of those
16:37<@Alberth>gn
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16:52<frosch123>fish-oil obviously
16:55<FLHerne>Whaling grounds?
16:57<frosch123>they could get the ONLY_DECREASE industry production behaviour
17:00<FLHerne>Would look even sillier than the fishing grounds, though
17:00<FLHerne>Needs some sort of area-covering industry
17:01<FLHerne>Farms could be like that, too
17:01<frosch123>if not everyone would play with disasters disabled, one could replace the submarine with moby dick or so
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17:09<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i have ever seen the submarine
17:11<frosch123>i remember waiting for it once, after i read on the forums that you can trap it by raising land
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17:21<Samu>how much is 0001 & 0011?
17:22<Samu>or 1 & 3?
17:23<Samu>it's 1?
17:31<FLHerne>Yes
17:32<FLHerne>1 | 3 would be 3
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17:33<Samu>sometimes 1 & 3 = true, some other times 1 & 3 = 1, how can I tell the difference :(
17:33<Samu>how does the code know if it should get 1 or true?
17:34<Samu>like in here: if (!(wa & 1))
17:34<frosch123>weren't you the guy who said that C was a good programming language? :p
17:34<Samu>switch (wa & 0x03)
17:34<Samu>i am assuming wa = 1 at the moment
17:35<Samu>if (!(1 & 1))
17:35<Samu>= false?
17:36<Samu>or = 1?
17:37<Samu>= not 1
17:37<FLHerne>Samu: 1 & 3 is always 1
17:37<FLHerne>0 is false, non-zero is true
17:38<FLHerne>C didn't even have a boolean type until C99?
17:39<Samu>there's some intelligent engineering logic being made in this function
17:39<Samu>and i cant decipher
17:39<Samu>let me get link
17:40<FLHerne>Ah, reading the log a bit makes things clearer
17:41<Samu>http://hg.openttd.org/branches/1.6.hg/file/b23c908543e3/src/water_cmd.cpp#l647
17:41<Samu>ok, starts there
17:41<FLHerne>When you're testing the value of (something & n), what you're actually trying to do is test whether the corresponding bits are set
17:42<FLHerne>i.e. you should completely ignore the actual numeric value, it's irrelevant
17:43<FLHerne><< means 'shift left one bit' (i.e. double, but that's not important)
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17:46<FLHerne>So lines 651->654 sets the lowest bit of wa if the SW tile is water, sets the second-lowest bit if the NW tile is,etc
17:47<FLHerne>If the lowest four bits of wa are "0100" at line 655, only the northeast tile was water and the rest weren't
17:47<FLHerne>If "1101", all but the NW tile were water
17:48<FLHerne>"(wa & 1)" will be true iff the lowest bit of wa is 1, i.e. if the SW tile was water
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17:49<FLHerne>Similarly (wa & 2) tests the second bit, (wa & 4) the third...
17:49<FLHerne>Because 4 is 0100
17:49<FLHerne>3 is 0011, so (wa & 3) is only true if _both_ the lower bits are set
17:50<FLHerne>i.e. both the SW and NW tiles are water
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17:52<Samu>shift left one bit means doing 0001 would become 0010?
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17:52<Wolf01>o/
17:53<Wolf01>finally restored the functionality of vs2015... the update 2 broke it hard :|
17:53<FLHerne>Samu: Yes
17:56<FLHerne>Samu: And note the += on everything after the first line
17:56<FLHerne>So it starts out as 000?
17:56<FLHerne>Then 00??
17:56<FLHerne>Then 0???
17:56<FLHerne>Then ????
17:57<FLHerne>Where each new ? is the return value of one of the IsWateredTile() calls
17:59<Samu>the direction is reversed, or misleading
17:59<FLHerne>Why?
18:00<FLHerne>Left-pointing arrows, shifts the bits one bit to the left
18:00<Samu>IsWateredTile(TILE_ADDXY(tile, 1, 0), DIR_NE it asks if the tile located at SW of the current tile has water being directed at NE
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18:03<Samu>if it does, the current tile at 0, 0 will draw water at SW, at least it's what I understand
18:07<Samu>and the bits are 0100
18:07<Samu>wa = 0100
18:07<FLHerne>Ah, sorry, looks like you're right
18:08<Samu>okay, apparently I understood this first part, now the 2nd part, the corners
18:09<Samu>corners are complicating my brains
18:12<Samu>I want to add additional logic
18:12<Samu>distinguish elevated corner to flat corner
18:12<Samu>draw the correct image sprite depending on the corner that is currently raised
18:13<Samu>taking the example of 0100
18:14<Samu>water is drawed at SW, but what if the N corner is raised, or lowered, or flat?
18:15<Samu>what if the S corner is raised, lowered or flat?
18:15<Samu>what if the W corner is raised, lowered or flat? :(
18:16<Samu>(don't know where to add this logic, even)
18:20<FLHerne>That's where adding up all the bits _is_ useful
18:20<FLHerne>0001, 0010, 0011, ...
18:21<Samu>oh :)
18:21<FLHerne>So sprite (offset) 0 is "no corners [x]", 1 is "SW? corner [x]", 2 is "NW? corner [x]", 3 is "SW and NW corners [x]", ...
18:23<FLHerne>If you have two relevant bitfields, shift one left by four bits and add it to the other, then you have a unique 8-bit value for every combination
18:23<FLHerne>Although 256 different states sounds like too many for a lot of things
18:24<Samu>count the steep slopes too
18:24<Samu>:o
18:29<Samu>8 4 2 1 then shift 4 more stuff there?
18:30<Samu>9 12 6 3 8 4 2 1?
18:31<Samu>9 12 6 3 are the corners
18:31<Samu>8 4 2 1 are the ... meh, im confused already
18:32<FLHerne>No, I have no idea what that was supposed to mean
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18:32<FLHerne>Say 0011 are your water states
18:33<FLHerne>And 1010 are your height states
18:34<FLHerne>Then you can shift one lot four bits up, so that 10100011 represents the particular state where both of those states are true
18:35<FLHerne>If you put your sprites in the right order, then the 164th sprite (index 163) can be the sprite for that state
18:39<Samu>what about steep heights?
18:40<Samu>need moar bits?
18:40<FLHerne>Gets even worse?
18:40<Samu>t.t
18:41<FLHerne>How many different states do you actually care about?
18:41<Samu>all slope combinations
18:41<Samu>let me check
18:42<Samu>19, or 18 if I exclude SLOPE_FLAT
18:42<FLHerne>Surely steep slopes just can't have water on them?
18:43<Samu>they will, if i can code this right
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>there should be plenty of ways to get water(falls) on steep slopes
18:50<Samu>enum Slope ... all types are here, let me find this
18:51<Wolf01>'night
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18:53<Samu>http://hg.openttd.org/branches/1.6.hg/file/b23c908543e3/src/slope_type.h
18:53<Samu>slope vs corner
18:54<Samu>hmm, maybe i can reduce that number :8
18:55<Samu>halftiles aren't needed for this
19:01<Samu>it's 18
19:01<Samu>that's 2 more bits?
19:02<Samu>wondering if i can make it 16
19:03<Samu>or if i can extrapolate bits
19:09<Samu>must think
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 03 00:00:11 2016