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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-08

---Logopened Fri Apr 08 00:00:18 2016
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04:09<Wolf01>o/
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04:19<Wolf01>o/
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04:36<peter1138>bah @ perl scripts causing a segfault
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05:50<Samu>I'd like to drag and drop a savegame file on OpenTTD executable and have it launch and load the dropped savegame
05:52<peter1138>isn't that just a case of making it accept a filename as the only argument, instead of requiring -g?
05:55<Samu>start /D "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD" openttd.exe -g %1
05:55<Samu>this works, but it's a batch file :(
05:55<Samu>i drag on the batch file
05:55<Samu>er, drag and drop on
05:59<Samu>D:\OpenTTD\Core1\save\autosave>start /D "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD" openttd.exe -g "D:\OpenTTD\Core1\save\autosave\SOME HÕRRBIdd45t~fdagfad~~erãrta savegame NÄmeee32~~we~~~f~3.sav"
06:00<Samu>it works !
06:00<Samu>even with horrible names
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06:44<Samu>how to i post png in forums?
06:45<Samu>if the forum hosts the .png image, it won't display in the post
06:45<Samu>why?
06:45<andythenorth>works for me
06:45<andythenorth>sorry :(
06:45<Samu>hmm what am i doing wrong then
06:45<andythenorth>dimensions?
06:45<andythenorth>I use 8 bit and 24 bit pngs in forums, no problems
06:45<Samu>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=48281&p=1166705#p1166705
06:46<Samu>it's big
06:46<andythenorth>dimensions
06:46<andythenorth>forums limit is 800x600 or so for inline images
06:46<Samu>1920x1080 or somewhere
06:46<Samu>oki, that makes sense, ty
06:46<Samu>exactly 1920x1001
07:05<@planetmaker>well... do not inline images larger than 800x600, Samu
07:06<@planetmaker>bigger ones will automatically be shown as clickable links
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07:55<Wolf01>meh... no emulator with the right display resolution :E
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09:37<supermop_>kitbashed sprites last night andythenorth
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09:42<andythenorth>devzone issue?
09:44<supermop_>hm?
09:46<supermop_>hacked IH mk3 passenger car to be a generic MU box
09:47<supermop_>then cut into 1/8 segments to make modular stand-ins for everything until draw better sprites
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09:50<andythenorth>supermop_: put sprites here if you have any http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/issues
09:50<supermop_>ok
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10:13<supermop_>need more variety of lengths than 4, 6, and 8?
10:14<andythenorth>depends
10:14<andythenorth>by preference, lengths are 4/8 or 8/8
10:14<andythenorth>4/8 is rarely practical in which case 6/8 is best
10:15<andythenorth>sometimes 5/8 is needed
10:15<peter1138>are corners fixed yet?
10:15<supermop_>4/6/8 easier to modularize
10:15<andythenorth>ease of building whole unit lengths is important, but it still has to look nice
10:15<andythenorth>peter1138: ‘fixed’
10:15<andythenorth>they certainly haven’t changed :P
10:16<peter1138>heh
10:16<supermop_>share sheet as a google sheet? or upload xls to devzone
10:17<peter1138>this software has server and client versions, 1140011-Server-r2d2.zip ... 1140011-Client-c3po.zip
10:18<andythenorth>supermop_: laboriously manually formatted, like this? :x http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8120
10:18*andythenorth has war on formatting
10:18<supermop_>was thinking to make most locomotives 6/8 bc technically narrow gauge, but JR trains aren't that small
10:18<@Alberth>hi hi
10:18<supermop_>and they aren't running alongside SG locomotives
10:18<andythenorth>I noticed the diesels I found look long
10:18<supermop_>they are
10:18<andythenorth>and are B-B-B and other weird configurations
10:19<andythenorth>lo Alberth
10:19<supermop_>not sure if should put more locomotives back in to embrace their weirdness
10:19<supermop_>but need not be small for contrast
10:19<peter1138>also
10:19<peter1138>is there a rift version of ottd yet?
10:20<supermop_>hacking little bear to be small 50s/60s diesel
10:20<supermop_>might make a "big bear" too, or do the bigger diesel as carbody
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10:21<Samu>i dont understand the windows firewall
10:25<supermop_>andythenorth: would like to shoehorn this guy in there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KiHa_281_series
10:25<supermop_>bc already thought up a bunch of names
10:27<andythenorth>‘Fuji’ has to be one of them
10:29<supermop_>that dmu lives up north
10:30<supermop_>so names are shit like yuki
10:30<supermop_>shiba for small diesel and akita for big one?
10:32<supermop_>or kuma -chan and dai-kuma for little bear and big bear?
10:32<supermop_>fuji should be something tokkaido inspired
10:32<supermop_>steam or shinkansen
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10:34<Samu>server 8 isn't being recognized from the master server
10:34<Samu>what is wrong, damn it :(
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10:35<Samu>windows firewall was never easy with Openttd
10:35<supermop_>early commuter emu must be named hachiko
10:35<Samu>when it works, i have no idea why it works
10:35<Samu>now i'm on the case it's not working
10:37<Samu>why's that server 7 is receving all spectators from 1 to 8 when they're joining the other servers?
10:37<Samu>i hate windows firewall
10:40<Samu>i get game still paused (connecting clients) on server 7 for each spectator client that is joining the other servers, is this normal? they join their respective servers, but all the notices are dumped on server 7 for some reason
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10:54<peter1138>what crazy madness are you up to?
10:58<Samu>dealing with windows firewall :(
10:59<Samu>what's a domain? public domain, private domain, and a 3rd one i can't recall name
11:01<argoneus>how are my train friends doing
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11:11<peter1138>windows firewall is simple so maybe you do something wrong
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11:16<Samu>do you see my servers listed? I can't trust my own list
11:17<Samu>FX-8150 Core 1 to 8, they haveto be 8
11:17<peter1138>fx-8150 core? yes
11:17<peter1138>https://www.openttd.org/en/servers
11:17<Samu>funny firewall
11:18<Samu>i have absolutely no idea what made it work suddenly
11:19<Samu>the server didn't answer the request
11:19<Samu>i bet it's screwed alrady
11:20<Samu>I don't get it... i can't join server 8 with my spectator batches
11:21<Samu>and then server 8 also disappears from the list
11:23<Samu>grrr, gonna try this again
11:24<Samu>started all 8 servers
11:25<Samu>master server doesn't recognize a server timing out
11:32<Samu>ok now it works
11:32<Samu>better not touch this anymore
11:33<Samu>it works and i have no idea why it works now, but i don't care
11:36<Eddi|zuHause><supermop_> early commuter emu must be named hachiko <- Gesundheit.
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11:43<Samu>screenshot doesn't capture game chat :(
11:46<Samu>http://i.imgur.com/p7hyI1j.jpg - this is what happens when i join server 7
11:47<Samu>it lists game still paused 7 times, what's that?
11:47<Samu>when i join the other servers, it doesn't do that
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12:00<Wolf01>I think the router rebooted after reaching 999 hours of uptime
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12:05<Eddi|zuHause>typically this kind of problems are around 42 days (32-bit amount of seconds)
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2*32/24/3600
12:05<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.000740740740741
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2**32/24/3600
12:05<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 49710.2696296
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12:05<Eddi|zuHause>oh, milliseconds
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2**32/24/3600/1000
12:06<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 49.7102696296
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>there, 49 days
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2**32/3600/1000
12:06<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 1193.04647111
12:06<Wolf01>it might be
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12:30<supermop_>andythenorth: i stole your electra pantographs
12:30<andythenorth>I won’t miss them tbh
12:34<supermop_>drew a reddish one, then realized i really don't want to draw it in 4 angles at this point so stole that one
12:34<supermop_>does ih have anything with a single-arm pantograph?
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12:42<andythenorth>supermop_: double juice
12:43<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/double_juice_0.png
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13:05<supermop_>ok ill lift that later
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13:19<supermop_>devzone log in not working
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13:27<Samu>new patch :p
13:27<Samu>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74694&p=1166603#p1166603
13:28<Samu>and a new problem, I shifted the problem from slot 1 to the last configurable slot
13:28<Samu>I need suggestions
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13:48<Samu>I think I got an idea
13:48<Samu>brb
14:04<andythenorth>can someone give alluke the FIRS prize? I just don’t have the heart.
14:05<V453000>andythenorth: ?
14:05<andythenorth>the clue is here, in bold http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1166266#p1166266
14:05<andythenorth>twice
14:05<andythenorth>although I might have fucked up min. compatible version by the sound of it :(
14:06<V453000>well he is extremely retarded so
14:06<V453000>..
14:06<andythenorth>see, this is the kind of player we need to see more of: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1166739#p1166739
14:06<andythenorth>solves his own problem, using the docs provided
14:07<andythenorth>more of that
14:07<V453000>factorio has people like that
14:07<andythenorth>so does openttd
14:08<andythenorth>but eh
14:08<V453000>I dare say the % is different
14:08<V453000>factorio doesn't lure realism idiots
14:08<andythenorth>it will
14:09<andythenorth>the effect is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
14:09<V453000>yes, steam and getting more popular certainly brings "wider audience
14:09<andythenorth>it’s usually a sign of success
14:09<V453000>ye
14:10<andythenorth>go back to 2008 in tt-forums, what you have is frequent ottd releases with new features, and a bunch of people with untested ideas to improve the game
14:10<andythenorth>now what you have is experience, and reddit
14:11<V453000>quite true
14:11<V453000>so why should I make a new train set you say? :)
14:12<andythenorth>because you enjoy it? o_O
14:14<V453000>point taken :D
14:14<V453000>let's think about it again when I have a little more time
14:14<andythenorth>V453000: you’re short of time? :o
14:14<andythenorth>you don’t _need_ to sleep
14:15<V453000>baby, moving, redoing trains for factorio
14:15<V453000>utter insanity
14:16<andythenorth>http://www.nyupress.org/netwars/pages/chapter03/ch03_.html
14:17<V453000>xd
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14:24<_johannes>I'd like to create a documentation for the railnet graph exporter...
14:24<_johannes>has openttd already a latex/similar documentation?
14:24<_johannes>like an "openttd manual" ?
14:24-!-alluke [~54fa666b@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
14:25<@Alberth>wiki.openttd.org
14:26<_johannes>what if you're online?
14:26<_johannes>maybe playing openttd on a long train journey? :)
14:26<@Alberth>s/on/off/ I guess
14:26<@Alberth>but no wiki then :)
14:27<@Alberth>although nowadays people are online 24/7
14:27<_johannes>well... German trains...
14:28<_johannes>though I agree that it's probably the future that everyone has internet...
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>there's also doxygen, if you want to go into more technical details
14:29<@Alberth>good point
14:29<_johannes>let's try the wiki for now...
14:30<Wolf01>enougn development for today
14:30<Wolf01>*h
14:30<alluke>which cargo label does firs 2 use for vehicles?
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>you know there's a wiki page all about cargo labels?
14:31<alluke>yeah
14:31<alluke>not sure if its updated
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>did you check?
14:32<alluke>but i doesnt seem to be VEHI since trainset doesnt offer car transporters for it
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>there's also a FIRS documentation website
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14:34<alluke>as expected the wiki is outdated
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, you're a good candidate to update it :po
14:36<V453000>^
14:37<alluke>nah
14:37<alluke>i wont touch anything im not familiar with
14:37<V453000>nice
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>but why should we be more familiar with it?
14:38<alluke>i dindt ask anyone to update it
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>you're only familiar with things you make yourself familiar with
14:41*andythenorth can’t update it
14:47<Samu>question: int max_slot = GetGameSettings().difficulty.max_no_competitors - 1; how do I get the hard cap value for max_no_competitors and not the value that is set for the current game?
14:47<alluke>andy which cargo label does vehicles use?
14:49<Samu>I want it to return the maximum value from the settings.ini, which is MAX_COMPANIES
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15:01<alluke>nevermind
15:02<alluke>the year wasnt soon enough for the car wagon xD
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15:09<andythenorth>nobody fixed it then eh? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes#Cargo_Labels
15:10<andythenorth>I’d better ask someone in forums again
15:12<@Alberth>andythenorth: what does need fixing?
15:12<andythenorth>:) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1166747#p1166747
15:13<andythenorth>it is a grumpy Friday eh?
15:14<andythenorth>alluke what is unclear about “not savegame compatible”
15:14<andythenorth>I feel like I must have fucked up that statement somewhere, but I can’t honestly see where the problem is
15:14<alluke>i know that and im not trying to replace old firs with new one
15:14<alluke>i have done successful industry swaps in many games
15:15<andythenorth>what is an industry swap?
15:15<@Alberth>done
15:15<alluke>the poin t is that i bomb the old industries and found completely new to replace them
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15:15<andythenorth>how did you get old industries in a new game?
15:15<alluke>i can make a video for you if it helps
15:16<andythenorth>I don’t understand how you can bomb old industries
15:16<@Alberth>bombing industries doesn't do much
15:16<andythenorth>there are no old industries in new game
15:16<alluke>but in existing game is
15:16<alluke>old save
15:16<andythenorth>so it’s a savegame?
15:16<alluke>yes
15:17<@Alberth>he's changing newgrfs
15:17<andythenorth>so help me, how can I state it clearer?
15:17<andythenorth>is it the word “incompatible” that’s confusing?
15:17<andythenorth>or the word “not"
15:17<andythenorth>?
15:17<andythenorth>“will break savegames”?
15:17<andythenorth>is that better?
15:17<alluke>when i add new industry grf, i dont expect the industries to work
15:18<@Alberth>and they didn't what is the problem?
15:18<alluke>but previously when i have added new, incompatible industry grf to a game
15:18<@Alberth>you were lucky
15:18<alluke>i have bombed the existing stuff
15:18<alluke>and founded new ones from the menu
15:19<alluke>and they have worked fine
15:19<@Alberth>including all the industries that will occur in the future?
15:19<alluke>actually firs 2 works fine too but the graphics are missing
15:19<andythenorth>yes
15:19<andythenorth>that is expected
15:20<@Alberth>alluke: when you change newgrfs, things will at some point break, it may take years, but it will happen
15:20<@Alberth>today was your lucky day
15:21<@Alberth>the red warning window is not there for nothing
15:23<alluke>yeah
15:23<V453000>I hereby give you retard of the century award alluke
15:23<alluke>thanks
15:29<andythenorth>alluke: thanks btw ;)
15:29<andythenorth>for amusement
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15:30<alluke>hmm
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15:32<alluke>i tried to load old savegame without any industry set and which is saved with 1.0.0 or something like that and firs industries look fine
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15:32<andythenorth>alluke: _without_ any industry set? :O
15:32<andythenorth>are you cast iron certain?
15:32<alluke>well built-in stuff
15:32<alluke>no industry grfs
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15:33<andythenorth>and when you broke your savegame with FIRS 2, what industries had broken sprites?
15:33*andythenorth is placing a small bet here
15:34<alluke>i had arctic basic parameter
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15:34<alluke>oil refineries, pyrite chain, and oil refineries didnt work
15:34<alluke>port, paper mill worked
15:34<alluke>and grain mill in other game
15:35<alluke>oil wells work too
15:37<frosch123>andythenorth: you changed grfid, right?
15:38<alluke>yes he did
15:39<alluke>but its not the problem
15:39<frosch123>i guess it is
15:39<frosch123>a savegame remembers which ids are assigned to which grf forever
15:39<frosch123>if you keep on adding new newgrfs, at some point all ids are used
15:40<alluke>ive done successful swaps between different industry grfs before too
15:40<alluke>hmm
15:40<frosch123>it's like a heavy metal poison
15:40<alluke>that may be the problem then
15:40<alluke>not enough ids
15:40<frosch123>a bit of lead does not hurt
15:40<frosch123>a bit of lead every day hurts
15:40<alluke>and then the problem is in ottds code
15:41<frosch123>no, you are the problem
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15:41<alluke>youre so mean :(
15:43<frosch123>mean would be to make ottd post to twitter "i am a teenager" when starting a 4k x 4k map
15:45<alluke>are big maps for kids?
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15:48<andythenorth>mean would be encoding subtly and horribly random production behaviour into FIRS
15:48<andythenorth>or even better, deterministically horrible, but with just enough variation to confuse people
15:48<supermop_>reclying plant?
15:49<andythenorth>the potential is so much more...
15:49<supermop_>i actually find ports too deterministic
15:49<andythenorth>frosch123: any chance of a variable to check ‘this tile is currently drawn in a viewport’? o_O
15:51<frosch123>what? :p
15:51*andythenorth considers industries that misbehave, but only when no player is looking
15:51<frosch123>we can add a variable whether the world is still rotating
15:51<supermop_>4/4 railcar is too chibi
15:51<andythenorth>they’d destroy your network, but you’d never see why
15:52<andythenorth>supermop_: railcars have to add up to multiples of 1.0
15:52<andythenorth>so you get 8/8 or 4/8, or 16/8 :P
15:52<supermop_>this is a placeholder
15:52<andythenorth>and I won’t support 16/8
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16:13<supermop_>sorry was afk
16:14<supermop_>what should i call it?
16:18<andythenorth>the roster, or the issue?
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16:20<supermop_>issue
16:20<supermop_>moot now
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16:36<Wolf01>V453000, no friday fact today?
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17:00<supermop_>uploaded sprites
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17:09<Samu>hey, i'm going to change the rules a bit for the AI Window
17:09<Samu>I have some ideas
17:10<Samu>only lock out the slots where Humans are present
17:10<Samu>but allow the other slots to be editable, even if it currently is running an AI
17:11<Samu>now, to avoid them all slots to be orange, I'd want to distinguish editable slots from non editable slots
17:11<Samu>but still wanted to indicate that there's currently a running AI for the slot that is to be edited
17:11<Samu>what color do u suggest?
17:12<andythenorth>supermop_: do them all 4/8 :D
17:13<supermop_>too cute
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17:13<Samu>confused?
17:14<supermop_>was thinking monorail would be 16/8, consisting of 5+6+5
17:14<Samu>oh, i see u guys are busy
17:14<supermop_>so it conforms to 1 tile unit like metro
17:14<supermop_>Samu: what do you mean?
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17:15<Samu>I need a color
17:16<Samu>currently it works like this; locked company slots are texted in silver, can't be selected either
17:16<Samu>unlocked company slots are orange, only if it's editable
17:17<Samu>but I'm chaning the rules a bit
17:17<Samu>changing*
17:17<Samu>I'm allowing editing of currently-in-use company slots as long as they're AI
17:17<Samu>but I don't want it to be texted in Orange, or silver
17:17<Samu>which color should I use?
17:19<supermop_>hmm
17:19<supermop_>orange seems best
17:19<supermop_>change unlocked to blue?
17:20<Samu>it is currently using orange for currently-free slots and currently-in-use slots, i'd like a color to distinguish between free/in-use
17:21<Samu>in the heat of a game, it's difficult to visualize right away which slots haven't yet started an AI, you see?
17:21<Samu>cus they're all orange
17:21<Samu>wanted to make a visible distintion
17:22<Samu>meh ok i'll try blue
17:22<Samu>brb
17:23<Samu>just wondering if there was a more "official" color for similar situations
17:23<Samu>, brb
17:27<Samu>((this->selected_slot == i)) ? TC_WHITE : (IsEditable((CompanyID)i) ? (Company::IsValidAiID(i)) ? TC_BLUE : TC_ORANGE : TC_SILVER));
17:29<supermop_>andythenorth: this sufficient to get a playable ~20 vehicle rolling, or do i need 5/8 and 7/8 boxes too
17:29<supermop_>wht size are pony tenders?
17:30<andythenorth>4/8, 5/8
17:30<andythenorth>probly
17:30<Samu>http://i.imgur.com/s7j1DSA.png
17:30<Samu>check it out
17:31<Samu>blue and orange slots can be edited
17:31<Samu>silver slot can't be edited, it's occupied by human
17:31<Samu>blue indicate an AI has started on this slot already
17:31<Samu>so... is blue a good color?
17:32<Samu>white slot is what I have selected, that rule is still valid
17:36<andythenorth>supermop_: bed for me, probably back tomorrow ;)
17:36<supermop_>ok
17:36<supermop_>i should do my actual job
17:37<supermop_>im done drawing for the day, will maybe do a couple diesels tomorrow
17:37<supermop_>no steams though
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17:41<Samu>the biggest advantage of my idea is that I can switch to another AI using only the gui and even when the game has already started
17:42<Samu>if, for example, I don't like AIAI, I can open the AI config window, and edit away AIAI from there, and put some another in there, configure it's parameters, then on the AI debug window, I can click restart AI, it will restart but with my newly chosen AI
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17:44<Samu>unless, of course... it bugs out somewhere
17:48<Samu>hmm i see it bugs
17:48<Samu>just mixed 2 AI scripts into 1 slot, no! :(
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18:02<Samu>strange, i can't trigger this bug now :(
18:03<Samu>I swear I saw Choochoo and Chopper debug in the same AI
18:03<Samu>company
18:03<Samu>grr, i hate it when i can't reproduce bugs
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18:21<Samu>who's the AI script expert here?
18:22<Samu>t.t
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19:14<Samu>new version, v3! Please give me ideas to improve it. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74694&p=1166603#p1166603
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19:37<suitsmeveryfine>Hi! I'm trying to package OpenTTD for Guix SD but have difficulties with the 'lzo' dependency. The config file can detect other packages such as 'zlib' and 'sdl' but not 'lzo', probably because pkg-config isn't used in this particular case.
19:39<Wolf01>'night
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19:40<suitsmeveryfine>I lack the skills to patch config.lib myself. Do any of you have an idea?
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20:08<Eddi|zuHause>there's probably a --with(out)-lzo switch in ./configure
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>but i have no clue how config.lib works
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20:30<Eddi|zuHause>lzo is really only used for loading old savegames
20:30<Eddi|zuHause>so if it's for personal use, you can probably live without it, but for a general audience you should maybe include it
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>i'd expect it to work like "--with-lzo=<location>"
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>("old savegames" may include the title game)
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21:34<suitsmeveryfine>Eddi: I'm not sure if you're still here but, yes, it's for general use.
21:38<suitsmeveryfine>I can build successfully only with the "without" switch enabled. GuixSD is a quite different type of GNU/Linux distro where package names don't stay the same because they contain a unique hash. Therefore I can't easily make use of "--with-lzo=<location>"
21:40<suitsmeveryfine>I'm going AFK now, but thanks for answering my question.
21:40<suitsmeveryfine>Good night
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 09 00:00:20 2016