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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-13

---Logopened Wed Apr 13 00:00:26 2016
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05:51<Samu>hi
05:53<Samu>I just finished yesterday's tests
05:53<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbjaf8p7i
05:53<Samu>everything passes, no errors
05:55<Samu>while conducting these tests, however, i found a bug, common to them all
05:55<Samu>I have reported it here: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6445
05:56<Samu>it's also present in 1.6.0
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06:09<Wolf01>o/
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07:47<@peter1138>preferably
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09:08<@peter1138>do i need a xeon e3 server?
09:08<@Rubidium>not necessarily
09:09<Samu>hey, i found another bug again, let's see if i can reproduce this
09:09<@Rubidium>you could also opt for a xeon e5 server
09:11<Samu>it is related to when a server is generating a map and a client joins, client times out even before the map concludes generation
09:11<Samu>client joins a 2nd time, and server is doing lzma errors
09:11<@peter1138>they're slightly more expensive
09:13<@Rubidium>25.000 vs 50.000...
09:13<Samu>Error: Game Save Failed?Internal error: cannot initialize compressor
09:13<@peter1138>?
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09:14<@Rubidium>oh, you can buy a tray with 12 for 4 lakh ;)
09:14<@Rubidium>sorry, my google searches only give me local currency
09:15<Samu>brb, trying to reproduce bug in 1.6.0
09:16<@peter1138>http://www.ebuyer.com/714837
09:17<Samu>nop, bug doesn't happen in 1.6.0, tha'ts weird
09:18<@Rubidium>peter1138: what are you going to use that for?
09:19<@peter1138>replace my aging dual p4 xeon server
09:19<@peter1138>formfactor might be an issue :p
09:20<@Rubidium>what does that p4 xeon do now?
09:20<@Rubidium>anything computationally expensive, or just play NAS
09:20<@peter1138>well, it ran openttd servers in the past
09:20<@peter1138>and minecraft
09:21<@peter1138>but i rent an ovh server for that currently as it's not up to the job
09:22<@peter1138>although actually that price is cheap enough to use as a home workstation for stuffs
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09:23<@Rubidium>I just stuck a USB stick into my router for some local file storage and share a VPS with family for mail and the likes
09:24<@Rubidium>besides that I don't need a server
09:24<@Rubidium>ah well, dinner time!
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09:36<Samu>i can't reproduce the bug on a x64 build
09:36<Samu>only on a win32 build
09:37<Samu>i'm fairly certain this is a memory allocation issue :(
09:40<Samu>what is private bytes, working set and virtual size?
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09:42<supermop>yo
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09:51<supermop>lego man appears
09:51<Samu>i dont understand something
09:52<supermop>i dont understand many things
09:52<Samu>isn't 1.6 GB private bytes enough for win32 applications?
09:53<supermop>i guess a big map coul get bigger than that?
09:53<Samu>about 1.8 GB in Virtual Size column, as peak
09:56<Samu>i don't get memory :(
09:57<Samu>what is the maximum memory a 32 bit application can allocate?
09:57<Samu>I've heard 2 GB, 3 GB and 4 GB... google doesn't help
09:57<Samu>which one is correct
09:58<Samu>even so... 1.8 GB is still within 2 GB
09:58<Wolf01>32bit for sure not more that 3GB
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10:02<supermop>reading about little DMUs makes me bummed out that i never have been to the mountains in Japan
10:05<Samu>just tested with preset 8
10:05<Samu>it works
10:05<Samu>so this means... preset 9 is bad for openttd running in 32-bits
10:06<Samu>what is memory fragmentation? I hear this term being tossed around too much
10:07<@peter1138>it's where memory is fragmented
10:07<Wolf01>:)
10:08<Samu>ok :(
10:10<Samu>here: https://git.openttd.org/?p=branches/1.6.git;a=blob;f=src/saveload/saveload.cpp;h=bd3c83d139643314a6c646a72fe528c0a51d4d9e;hb=HEAD#l2364
10:11<Samu>there should be a warning in the comments about preset 9
10:11<Samu>cannot be used with openttd in 32 bit if the map is sized 4096x4096
10:11<Samu>something like that
10:11<Samu>runs fine in 64-bit
10:12<Samu>with 8 it works
10:13<Samu>or just do this: CreateSaveFilter<LZMASaveFilter>, 0, 2, 8
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10:24<supermop>new idea: whole roster just subsequent generations of this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Zusou_Jinsha-tetsudo.jpg
10:24<andythenorth>:P
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10:25<sim-al2>Seems legit
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>that's the japanese version of "Feldbahn"?
10:26<sim-al2>Oh, and the express passenger vehicle is this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Dual_Mode_Vehicle.jpg/800px-Dual_Mode_Vehicle.jpg
10:26<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: think it's hand powered
10:26<sim-al2>Yeah, the Japanese built a lot of 762mm gauge for light freight and passenger
10:26<supermop>was on a little feeder line off the original Tokaido line
10:26<sim-al2>Most of it was converted to 1067mm or abandoned, but some still exists and is even electrified
10:27<supermop>sim-al2: is the "darwin" sticker on that named for the award it will get once it enters mainline traffic?
10:27<sim-al2>Here's the ultimate passenger vehicle for the new roster supermop: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Nanbu_Jukan_Railbus.jpg :p
10:27<sim-al2>Heh yeah
10:28<supermop>i thought about tiny early rail buses, but i am not sure there will be a case for them yet
10:28<sim-al2>They wanted to replace the old DMU's in Hokkiado and elsewhere with that thing, but I guess the project was suspended at some point
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, west germany had the "SchiStraBus" around the 70's
10:29<supermop>what does that stand for?
10:29<sim-al2>Railbuses seem to suck in OpenTTD tbh, either the case for the money isn't there or you need far more capacity
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>Schi(ene) = Rail, Stra(ße) = Road and Bus = Bus
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10:30<Eddi|zuHause>so a bus that can go on both roads and rail
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SchiStraBus
10:30<supermop>sim-al2: some town sets and gs might give you low enough passenger volume
10:30<supermop>but yeah, the cost of building the rail is hard to justify
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>oh, it was actually the 50s
10:31<supermop>i guess like in real life, it only makes sense if the rail was already there and about to be abandoned
10:31<sim-al2>Although to be fair, railbuses in RL were a last ditch effort to keep losses low
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>i'd dispute "last ditch"...
10:32<sim-al2>Only a few lucky places where they survived long enough to either be kept in service or be replaced with "real" equipment
10:32<supermop>but in openttd, any even partially served town will see growing passenger volume, not shrinking
10:32<supermop>and if you already have a freight line by a village, you may as well run a real train to it
10:33<sim-al2>Ok, last ditch might be a bit strong, but in the case of the UK for example, a lot of lines got railbuses only to lose all service within 5 or so years
10:33<sim-al2>In the US, gasoline "doodlebugs" appeared during the 1920's and 30's, but certainly didn't save most passenger service
10:34<supermop>sim-al2: openttd doesn't model the demographic and political forces that make railbuses make sense
10:34<sim-al2>Very true
10:34<supermop>increasing car use in the US, aging shrinking rural communities in japan
10:37<supermop>and even if you run a profitable one railbus a month service to some 200 person town, there will be like 300 people waiting on the platform
10:37<supermop>i can conceive of ways to "fix" that via patches or new grfs, but i am not sure they would make the game more fun
10:38<sim-al2>Japan seems to be a very special case, because even with mostly privatized railways (barring the increase in public-private partnerships as of late) there's a sort of social expectation that keeps service going to rural towns, even that one station where one girl uses the train to get to school and back each day
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, in germany, railbusses had a "proper evolution"... sure, some (or a lot of) lines lost service, but others kept it
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10:41<Eddi|zuHause>and in recent years, some lines even have been reopened
10:42<supermop>in the us, for the last 30 years the focus has been on light rail instead of small heavy rail vehicles
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>if "light rail" means "trams", then yes, that also has got a large push recently. except in hamburg.
10:44<supermop>because often right of way exists but track needs to be rebuilt, or a new right of way is secured, which may run in areas not grade separate or even partially as tramways
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>a lot of this runs under the name "Stadtbahn" [city-rail]
10:45<supermop>in the us we have little real new trams until the last 5 years
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>which, depending on which city you talk about, is just a fancy new name for "Straßenbahn" [road-rail, meaning tram]
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>in some other places it means higher speed, better separation from road traffic, etc.
10:46<supermop>the other light rails just run partially on streets or plazas in the city center to avoid building tunnels or big stations
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes partially underground
10:47<supermop>i think of strassenbahn as tram tram, like you'd see in melbourne or historically in american cities
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>and in some places, people talk of "Stadtbahn" for marketing or political reasons, but essentially it's still a tram
10:49<supermop>because in middle school german, the photo in the text book vocab section was of a 70s era single car tram
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>and then you have hybrid systems like Karlsruhe or Kassel, where the same vehicle can operate both as tram an on "proper" rail
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>so in the city it can run as tram, and in rural areas, it can use existing (or reopened) rail lines
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>even some mainline train services have been converted to this hybrid model, so you have these trams running on the same track that freight and express trains use
10:52<sim-al2>The systems where they run underground through the center of the city are rather nice too
10:52<supermop>in the us, most of the light rail is standard guage, but FRA has very strict crash standards so they cant run on any line shared or connected to regular mainline traffic
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes, trams and trains have vastly different regulations
10:53<supermop>which is why you see stupid things here like a locomotive hauled commuter train of 1-3 cars
10:53<sim-al2>The major problem is that most of the existing tracks were removed or paved over anyway, and freight tracks are rarely in the a good place for passenger use
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, because of the relative success of railbusses here, when this hybrid model came up, lots of lines were just on the brink of being closed, or were not closed for very long
10:55<supermop>and even on some push-pull trains, if the cars are a little older, NJT runs the cab car empty
10:55<supermop>you cant sit in them because the are holding the whole car as a crumple zone
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>also, a city like Kassel has a special situation because of the weird german-german border situation kept some lines open that otherwise would be closed, and kept some lines closed but in a "do not touch" mode
10:56<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: wasn't there a west Berlin subway line that ran through East Berlin, but with all the eastern stations sealed off?
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes. two lines, one completely sealed off, and the other had an interconnection point that was only accessible for western citizens
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>which then had duty-free shops and stuff, like the international area at an airport
10:58<supermop>a family friend from when we lived in the UK recounted getting permission to travel to East Berlin in the 80s, and they took the subway there?
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>that's entirely plausible
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>confusingly enough, there is also an S-Bahn line that runs underground
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>so in "Friedrichstraße" station, you have an overground S-Bahn, an underground S-Bahn and the subway connected on east-berlin territory
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>and once there, you could go through the checkpoint into east germany
11:01<supermop>said that after passport control, they went through a door into the east part of the station
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>or at least east berlin
11:01<supermop>but the door was unmarked and seamless from the east side
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there was also an east german S-Bahn platform, which was sealed off from the ones accessible from west berlin
11:03<supermop>what was the deal with the maglev metro line that the west used on a platform that used to serve the east, which was then reverted after reunification
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>if you look at the current layout of Friedrichstraße (upper) station, you have 3 platforms with 6 tracks. 2 for S-Bahn and 4 for mainline trains. during the divided city phase, it was 2 eastern S-Bahn, 2 western S-Bahn and 2 mainline (also part of western/international section)
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>the maglev thingie was on a disused subway line
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>that was cut in half by the separation
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>and it was decided to rebuild the subway to its old state, instead of converting the whole network to maglev
11:07<supermop>i wonder if these lower speed maglevs are at all cost effective vs building a new rubber tired or steel rail vehcle
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>no clue
11:09<sim-al2>Given the track record, I'm guessing probably no
11:10<sim-al2>Although, Bejing is building a new maglev suburban line
11:10<sim-al2>Apparently noise and acceleration were the major concerns in that decision
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, even if they were slightly more cost effective, the main problem is usually that you'd have to convert the whole network, or build a completely separate network
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>both of which will outweigh the benefits
11:12<sim-al2>In Bejing's case, they have one true commuter line, with some trains on the intercity lines and the subway system making up for it
11:12<sim-al2>Still, the pollution from road vehicles is apparently bad enough to justify it
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure they have a giant traffic planning problem ahead of them
11:26<supermop>there is that new line this year at incheon in seoul, but i think that is sort of between slow and fast
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12:02<Samu>hey Alberth, can i suggest renaming Human player to Human company? avoids some confusion
12:02<Samu>sometimes those companies have no players in it, but it still says Human player
12:03<@Alberth>how is it a human company then?
12:03<Samu>someone created a company, then abandoned game
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12:04<Samu>company stays there, but without anyone in it
12:04<@Alberth>the someone is still the owner :)
12:05<@Alberth>computer needs some time to decide he's not coming back :)
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12:13<Samu>my second trench of results: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p8igw1riw
12:14<Samu>lzo is bugged on release x64 build
12:15<Samu>using visual studio 2015 express with the update 2
12:15<supermop>uploaded fixed length placeholders
12:16<Samu>version of openttd is ... hmm
12:16<Samu>r27537
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12:18<@Alberth>looks consistent :)
12:21<Samu>how did you build the openttd 1.6.0?
12:21<Samu>the one that is downloaded from the website?
12:22<Samu>is it msvc?
12:22<Samu>vs
12:22<Samu>visual studio =
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12:23<Xaroth|Work>they have a buildfarm to do that
12:23<Samu>anyway, the version 1.6.0 that is downloaded can't load the lzo, both the 32-bit and 64-bit
12:24<Samu>but my 32-bit build can load, true that I use a different openttd version though, r27537
12:25<Samu>omg, i can download r27537 too, i'm so dumb sometimes
12:25<Samu>gonna test that version, brb
12:25<@peter1138>i'm still amused you're wasting so much time on this
12:28<Samu>ok tested your build of r27537. the 32-bit version can load the savegame, the 64-bit cannot, so it's behaving just like here.
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12:31<Samu>and there's still the dpi scalling issue on these versions too
12:31<Samu>but that's some other matter
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12:38<@Alberth>so maybe the savegame is broken?
12:38<Samu>nope, it loads on the other builds fine
12:38<Samu>but says it's broken on x64 release
12:39<Samu>unexpected end of chunk
12:39<Samu>i've uploaded a save yesterday, let me give u link brb
12:42<Samu>https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!1263&authkey=!AHcsjB_LoOMjjK0&ithint=file%2csav
12:42<Samu>file name is Unnamed, 1950-01-02 lzo preset 0.sav
12:45<Samu>if i recall, that save was generated with the debug x64 build
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27538 /trunk/src/lang (hebrew.txt luxembourgish.txt) (2016-04-13 19:45:37 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>hebrew: 18 changes by dnd_man
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish: 1 change by Phreeze
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13:58<supermop>i always liked this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_Class_E5000
14:00<Wolf01>bye
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14:07<supermop_>no need for a late game heavy DC shunter though
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14:11<andythenorth>o/
14:11<andythenorth>ho actual useful FIRS ideas :D
14:12-!-supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:14<supermop_>andythenorth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_Class_E5000 ?
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14:17<andythenorth>supermop_: dunno :)
14:17<andythenorth>quak
14:17<supermop_>i want to drive that thing to work every day
14:18<@Alberth>:)
14:18<frosch123>hola
14:20<@Alberth>hoi
14:26<andythenorth>hmm committed to wrong git branch
14:27<@Alberth>cherry pick, and a hard reset :)
14:27<andythenorth>or rebase
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14:29<supermop_>farm economy?
14:37<Samu>this was unexpected. toyland was able to save with preset 9 of lzma on 32-bit
14:39<andythenorth>farm and gas it seems
14:40<Samu>there are less variables on toyland than on subtropical?
14:41<Samu>i don't understand, now it also works for subtropic
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14:42<Samu>why are the debug versions bugged?
14:42<Samu>i need to double test this on all 4 climates, brb
14:44<Samu>nop, release win32 just got the internal error
14:45<Samu>so it's random :(
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14:47<Samu>who's a memory expert here? hint me to the issue
14:49<@Alberth>that doesn't sounds very feasible, tbh
14:50<Samu>I belive it's related to memory allocation: problem occurs with openttd configured to use max_compression with lzma encoder, the preset 9. According to lzma, this preset needs needs 674 MiB on top of openttd
14:51<Samu>map is also giant, 4096x4096
14:51<Samu>i see virtual size going up to about 1.8 GB
14:51<Samu>openttd process virtual memory size
14:51<Samu>working set is at about 1.6 GB
14:52<Samu>some few times, just like a few minutes ago, it was able to generate the savegame
14:52<Samu>then i tried to save a 2nd time, and it failed
14:53<@Alberth>you don't have 8G or more, or so?
14:53<Samu>I do, but openttd is 32-bit for this testing, i don't know how the memory allocation limits work though, :(
14:53<@Alberth>but yeah, if memory allocation fails, you're pretty much dead
14:53<supermop_>natural gas worthless in openttd
14:54<@Alberth>3G in 32bit, maybe even 2.5G don't know how much windows eats
14:54<andythenorth>supermop_: just transport it as LPG?
14:55<andythenorth>what’s wrong with it? o_O
14:55<andythenorth>or use PIPE
14:55<andythenorth>use it for heating, or petrochemical cracking
14:55<supermop_>in the us its all pipelines
14:55<@Alberth>blow it out behind the train, and ignite :p
14:55<supermop_>no vehicles
14:56<V453000>good evening gentlemen
14:56<supermop_>delivering eng. sup or drilling equipment could be interesting
14:56<@Alberth>evening V
14:57<supermop_>i think it would be more interesting to deliver boiler vessels and other heavy equipment to power plants than the fuel
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15:20<supermop_>ok
15:21<supermop_>andythenorth: what should i do next? i have a list of trains, and sprites to place hold for sizes 4/8 through 10/8
15:22*andythenorth reads the issue
15:22<andythenorth>supermop_: names?
15:23<supermop_>cute names for about half
15:23<supermop_>and a pool of name ideas not sure how to allocate
15:24<andythenorth>mammals, mountains, real-life nicknames, names of city constructed in, name of designer
15:24<supermop_>like does a express steam or an express emu get "tsubame"
15:24<andythenorth>and if you have any twin-unit diesels or electrics, name them after a wind of the world
15:24<supermop_>like articulated?
15:24<andythenorth>or like the chinook in brit
15:24<supermop_>hmm
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15:25<supermop_>i guess i could double up the little diesel i hacked from little bear
15:25<andythenorth>you don’t have to have one :)
15:25<andythenorth>but you do have to have a 4-8-0 steam engine, it’s the set rule
15:25<andythenorth>forgot to mention that :D
15:25<supermop_>for an articulated, have the later heavy freight electric
15:25<supermop_>ok
15:25<supermop_>do i need a mikado named mikado?
15:26<andythenorth>ha ha
15:26<andythenorth>probably
15:26<supermop_>was thinking i would have a mikado named Taisho
15:26<supermop_>its still an emperor, and chronologically appropriate
15:27<supermop_>can i use ō in openttd?
15:28<supermop_>taisho maybe a little too late at 1912 but i think it works
15:29<andythenorth>supermop_: you’ll need freight wagons
15:29<supermop_>can i steal from pony for now?
15:29<andythenorth>you would be better stealing from Antelope
15:29<andythenorth>it’s cape gauge
15:30<andythenorth>the wheels are less visible in \ / _ views for narrow gauge
15:30<andythenorth>and vehicles are sometimes 1-2px smaller in height
15:32<andythenorth>ho supermop_ modern JR freight is *relatively* fast http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Prototype/JRFreight/FreightCars/
15:32<andythenorth>100kph or so
15:33<supermop_>i dont want to read about some detailed N scal JR set up andythenorth now how can i possibly save up money for wedding
15:33<andythenorth>chibi RL http://www.japaneserailwaysociety.com/jrs/freight/jfjbn.jpg
15:33<andythenorth>supermop_: just skip the toy trains
15:34<andythenorth>;)
15:34<supermop_>i like the little JRL containers
15:34<supermop_>when i accidentally took a train out north of asakusa once ended up passing a yard full of those
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15:35<andythenorth>supermop_: the freight car types are listed here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8120
15:36<supermop_>start out with test games with only gondolas?
15:37<supermop_>http://gizmodo.com/come-to-our-office-to-drink-beer-and-build-stuff-1770727013
15:37<andythenorth>supermop_: mail car https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB:JNR_FC_waki6416.jpg
15:37<andythenorth>you can get that from box car or reefer in antelope
15:37*andythenorth checks
15:38<andythenorth>standard gauge reefer in antelope
15:39<supermop_>hmm where should 2-8-2 go
15:39<supermop_>vis a vis 4-8-0
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15:40<supermop_>either the last one in the 40s or one in late 1890s cold be
15:44<Samu>woah for the first time ever i see openttd peak cpu usage going to 31.6%
15:45<supermop_>jr set says this thing is around 400hp : https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9B%BD%E9%89%8410%E5%BD%A2%E8%92%B8%E6%B0%97%E6%A9%9F%E9%96%A2%E8%BB%8A
15:45<supermop_>seems high
15:45<Samu>on an 8 core
15:46<Samu>15 AIs, autosaving and client joining
15:46<Samu>keks
15:46<Samu>and no pause on join of course
15:48<andythenorth>supermop_: steam hp has to be dibbled
15:48<andythenorth>less than 300 is a waste of time
15:50<supermop_>going to fake 2-8-2 from 1900 to 1910 i think
15:55<supermop_>when does pony 4-8-0 come about?
15:55<andythenorth>1930s
15:56<supermop_>ok
15:58<supermop_>freight?
15:58<Samu>how do i create a compatible 1.6.0 openttd but with my patches applied? or is it forbidden?
16:02<+glx>it's not recommended
16:04<Samu>ok, i understand
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16:05<Samu>new results: for max
16:05<Samu>compression
16:05<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pg5dholbk
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16:24<Samu>hmm, it's just not possible to have autosave enabled, clients always timeout
16:25<Samu>i have a suggestion
16:25<Samu>or idea
16:25<Samu>when a server starts the autosave, don't compress it
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16:26<Samu>just save it as fast as it can, to avoid those 20 seconds timeout on the client
16:26<@Alberth>so how big is you ISP connection?
16:27<Samu>the autosave is local i think
16:27<@Alberth>in MP when connecting to server?
16:27<@Alberth>how is the remote machine a file at your local disk then?
16:27<@Alberth>+getting
16:28<Samu>when a client joins, then the save that is sent to the client is compressed, but make autosave not compressed. for some reason, only autosave triggers those 20 seconds timeout
16:28<@Alberth>just disable autosave at the server?
16:28<Samu>yes, but...
16:29<Samu>uhm... how to explain it
16:29<@Alberth>I don't get it, you need to copy the map, no way around it
16:29<Samu>suppose someone's server crashed and he has to send in the last autosave to someone to debug
16:29<@Alberth>after that saving is a separate thread
16:29<@Alberth>it can take 30 minutes
16:30<@Alberth>maybe a bit less, as a year takes 13 minutes :p
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16:32<Gja>hmm can you enable compression for autosave?
16:32<Samu>it currently uses 1 preset for all saves
16:33<Samu>I was thinking of adding some more flexibility, autosave has some issues on server, I was suggesting no compression for autosaving, as this file is not sent to the client, it's local
16:33<Samu>for someone joining a server, then of course, send the compressed file
16:34<Gja>Seems like a neat compromise, however even with zlib or lzo it is still quite fast
16:34<Samu>when manually saving a game, i suppose compressed file is also fine
16:36<Samu>lzo is bugged on release x64 build at the moment, it's super fast compression
16:36<Samu>could be used for autosaves, if it gets fixed
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16:37<Gja>Ah
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16:43<andythenorth>supermop_: bed for me
16:43<supermop_>ok
16:44<supermop_>ill try to wrap up the spreadsheet now i guess?
16:44<sim-al2>Here's a funny locomotive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seibu_Class_E31
16:44<supermop_>don't want to do more pixel drawing before testing/prototyping
16:45<sim-al2>Oh yeah, I just noticed you mentioned the Toei locomotive earlier
16:45<andythenorth>supermop_: I won’t likely get near any code for days or weeks :)
16:45<andythenorth>sorry
16:45<andythenorth>much work work
16:45<supermop_>thats fine with me
16:46<supermop_>hoping i can get enough together that the roster can launch with the other two
16:46<supermop_>can add more steam locomotives later
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17:01<Samu>i think there is a bug with terragenesis
17:01<Samu>on arctic tileset, i have created max height of 255, and snow line at 127. once it generated the map it says no suitable places for forest industry
17:02<Samu>on a map 4096x4096 I find that very unlikely
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17:02<@peter1138>tgp was never designed for such limits
17:03<@peter1138>and the forest industry is quite limited, regardless of tgp
17:04<@peter1138>tgp produces unsatisfactory maps for arctic and subtropic
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17:12<supermop_>wish hammatsucho was closer to tsukiji
17:13<supermop_>then all 4 monorails could have geographically appropriate names starting with T
17:20<supermop_>my names are going to be pretty tokyo-centric
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17:26<Samu>really... i don't understand these formats... they don't work like I suppose they do, always have to double check
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17:33<Samu>so, compressor none doesn't work for networking
17:34<Samu>now I know
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17:50<Samu>what is the name of that thing that happens when a client joins a server and the server sends the map to the client?
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17:50<Samu>a stream?
17:50<Samu>a file?
17:50<Samu>a ... something else?
17:51<Samu>i wanna distinguish the autosave with the action of sending a map to a client joining a server, apparently these two are different things
17:51<Samu>i don't know the correct wording
17:52<Samu>distinguish the autosave from* the action
17:52<Samu>typo
18:01<supermop_>ok what to name maglevs
18:02<sim-al2>What era?
18:02<sim-al2>I mean, present, future, etc
18:03<sim-al2>The new Chuo shinkansen maglev has been named L0
18:05<supermop_>all names need to be fake, whimsical, and relevant to prototypes
18:05<supermop_>as everything is fictionalized drawing inspiration from various prototypes but in the style of original TT vehicles
18:07<supermop_>i have "yamanashi" and "kofu" now, but i might name them Shinji and hideo / shima and sogo
18:07<sim-al2>Oh ok
18:07<supermop_>after engineers who worked on the original tokaido shinkansen
18:09<supermop_>idk if i will give all the SG shinkansens place names, or train names, or concept names
18:10<supermop_>maybe i switch all of the monorails to food names
18:15<supermop_>currently i dont use nozomi or hikari for any train
18:24<Samu>you guys like to draw a lot of grfs
18:25<Samu>fake -> efak, Efa K
18:25<Samu>just a name
18:25<Samu>Ekaf
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18:27<Samu>im experimenting with zlib preset 2
18:28<Samu>seems the ideal candidate for autosaves
18:28<Samu>zlib preset 1 is as fast as zlib preset 2, but compresses less
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19:09<Flygon__>sim-al2: Sounds like the 0-series Shinkansen
19:10<Flygon__>No name?
19:10<Flygon__>Use 0 placeholder!
19:10-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
19:10<Samu>I'm gonna study a feasible solution tomorrow for tackling this autosave stuff, there must be a way to optimize this without having the clients drop from the game
19:12<Samu>i count 4 ways to trigger the encoding/decoding function with just the server
19:13<Samu>1. manual load/save, 2. autosave, 3. sending a map to client, 4 - click on a savegame from a list
19:13<Samu>autosave is definitely the number 1 culprit
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19:18<Samu>cyas goodnight
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19:40<Bowen>anyone here?
19:40-!-Bowen is now known as BowenC2C
19:43<BowenC2C>is... anyone ever here
19:43<BowenC2C>?
19:43<sim-al2>No
19:43<BowenC2C>lol
19:43<sim-al2>(kidding)
19:43<BowenC2C>hey sim
19:43<sim-al2>Just a slow time right now
19:43<BowenC2C>sorry, ive never got an answer here lol
19:44<sim-al2>It's dinner or approaching dinner in the Americas, and around midnight in Europe
19:44<BowenC2C>whats up with server 2?
19:44<sim-al2>Is it dead?
19:44<BowenC2C>yeah its 00:44 here in the uk
19:44<BowenC2C>yeah
19:44<sim-al2>Oh damn. Are you on #/r/openttd?
19:44<BowenC2C>in the irc?
19:45<sim-al2>Yeah, so that we don't spam up this channel
19:45<BowenC2C>ill join it
19:46<BowenC2C>im in #/r/openttd
19:46<sim-al2>Errr, I don't see you?
19:46<sim-al2>oh nvm
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