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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-14

---Logopened Thu Apr 14 00:00:27 2016
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00:49<kamnet>Good early morning
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04:31<Samu>Error! Out of memory: Cannot allocate 2359304 bytes.
04:42<Samu>emergency save also crashes
04:43<Wolf01>I think you are pushing it to the limits
04:43<Samu>I wanted to find out the barrier
04:43<Samu>it's 2 GB
04:43<Samu>i can screenshot this for proof
04:48<Samu>the answer i was looking for
04:48<Samu>2 GB is the barrier for the entire openttd.exe process
04:52<Samu>quite easy to reproduce
04:53<Samu>download Terron AI
04:53<Samu>start it 15x times on a giant map
04:53<Samu>wait a few seconds, crash with out of memory
04:53<Samu>15x or 14x
04:54<Samu>on the 64-bit, memory rises up to about 5.5 GB
04:54<Samu>without crashing
04:55<Wolf01>there might be a memory leak
04:55<Samu>I don't think so, it's how terron works
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04:55<Samu>it hoards memory
04:55<Wolf01>just like chrome
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05:03<Samu> - doing the same thing, but on 64-bit, terron doesn't seem to be leaking
05:03<Samu>it stops, but requires huge amounts
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06:09<@peter1138>have you finished yet? :p
06:28<Eddi|zuHause>for weeks now i have been pondering whether i should remove people from my ignore list, but i think it's still correct that they are on it...
06:29<Samu> if (!_networking) const SaveLoadFormat *def = lastof(_saveload_formats); else const SaveLoadFormat *def = &_saveload_formats[2];
06:29<Samu>what is the * doing?
06:30<Samu>that asterisk is ruining the next code lines with def
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06:33<Samu>original code is: SaveLoadFormat *def = lastof(_saveload_formats)
06:33<Samu>i want to add a condition
06:33<Samu>if not networking, i want it to pick up another format
06:35<Samu>or actually, if networking, pick up a different format than that of original code
06:39<@peter1138>so, vive or rift?
06:45<Samu>Run-Time Check Failure #3 - The variable 'def' is being used without being initialized.
06:45<Samu>english plz
07:02<@peter1138>It means the variable 'def' is being used without being initialized.
07:05<Samu>lzma preset 0 is considerably slower for what I'm intending to do
07:05<Samu>lzma is format _saveload_formats[3], the last available format also
07:06<Samu>i want to switch to zlib which is _saveload_formats[2]
07:06<Samu>how do I make this switch?
07:39<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause: once I had an idiot on my ignore list, but then the replies of other people started to get interesting and I removed him from the list, and started to flame with him again
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07:42<Eddi|zuHause>that's usually why i don't have a lot of people on there as well
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>but i still think i should keep this one, for my own sanity
07:43<Wolf01>just ignore it.. oh wait
07:44<Wolf01>btw... who's ddossing everything in europe?
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: all other conditions being equal, i'd go with the not-facebook one
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't know if the conditions are equal
07:46<Wolf01>iirc the vive costs 100€ more
07:46<Wolf01>but it's less picky about the hardware
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08:04<@peter1138>funny how rift was going to be all opensource (software-wise) and support linux etc...
08:11<Ketsuban>€100 sounds reasonable for not having unknown data being sent to Facebook's servers whenever the device is plugged in.
08:11<Ketsuban>Though I'm not convinced VR in general is ready yet.
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08:48<Samu>what's the difference betwen _network_server and _networking?
08:49<@planetmaker>one only relates to a server, the other to client and server
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09:21<Samu>_networking means the host of the server
09:21<Samu>we're hosting
09:21<Samu>kinda like that?
09:34<Samu>nope, i didn't understand the difference
09:53<Samu>_do_autosave is returning false when a client in a server starts autosaving?
09:53<Samu>be4tter double check
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10:17<@Alberth>hi hi
10:25<Samu>hey alberth
10:25<Samu>why is _do_autosave = false when a client in a server starts autosaving?
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10:26<Samu>what is _do_autosave supposed to mean after all?
10:26<@Alberth>I didn't know that was the case
10:26<@Alberth>nor do I know what the variable does
10:27<@Alberth>my first guess is to prevent starting another save before this one ends
10:27<Samu>but _do_autosave = true when the server starts autosaving
10:28<Samu>bool _do_autosave; ///< are we doing an autosave at the moment?
10:30<@Alberth>really, you have seen more about _do_autosave than I have
10:36<Samu>client on a server starting autosave: _do_autosave = false, _network_server = false, _networking = true
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10:41<@Alberth>so look for the code that uses that variable
10:42<@Alberth>it probably protects something, so find out what it protects
10:42<@Alberth>oy supermop
10:44<Samu>what led me to checking this was because when the server was too fast at autosaving, the client wasn't keeping up, because it was using a different saving encoder. I don't really get this stall though, there's either something wrong in the code, or I don't get it
10:45<Samu>this is when both server and client have autosave enabled
10:46<Samu>the client has to wait for the entire saving process to finish before it un-stalls
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10:48<Samu>i thought the encoding was processed in a separate thread
10:48<@Alberth>you need a copy of the map too
10:49<Samu>yes, both get to that part at nearly the exact time, given I'm testing both server and client on the same rig
10:50<Samu>but the encoding part.... is behaving different
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10:56<Samu>what I've solved so far was, getting rid of the encoding stall for the server, I picked no compression for server autosaves. The memory copy stall that you mention is before it sends it to the "no compression" filter. When it gets to this part, it basically just writes to the file in the disk. This is the where it should start a different thread, right?
10:57<Samu>better double check again,
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11:05<Samu>ok, re-checked
11:06<Samu>i get different autosave behaviours, depending on the game mode
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11:07<Samu>in single player, autosave stalls for the memcopy part, but then for the encoding part, it does not stall. it keeps encoding while the game still runs
11:08<Samu>in a server game, as a server, autosave stalls for the memcopy part, and is still stalling for the encoding part, it only un-stalls when the encoding finishes. This is bad especially if the encoder is slow.
11:09<Samu>in a server game, as a client doing autosave, I am not sure... must check
11:12<@Alberth>stalling server isn't bad, clients will pause too
11:16<Samu>it's bad when the encoder takes like 20+ seconds, clients will drop because it didn't receive answer from the server ( server was still encoding)
11:18<Samu>and dont' get confused, this is autosave, not about sending the map to client. it's a server with autosave enabled
11:23<Samu>got the results
11:23<Samu>in a server game, as a client doing autosave, it stalls for the memcopy part, it unstalls for the encoding part. client is still saving while the game is running
11:24<Samu>so, the issue is indeed autosave for the server only
11:25<Samu>save completed, client didn't drop from the game
11:25<Samu>good :)
11:25<Samu>i've even set the strongest compression method just to be sure
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11:41<Samu> if (_network_server || !_settings_client.gui.threaded_saves) threaded = false;
11:41<Samu>i bet it's this
11:42<Samu>it's a network server, it's setting threaded = false for some reason, I wonder why is it being forced to false
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11:46<Samu>must investigate this better
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11:49<@Rubidium>to prevent client-join-save and autosave from interfering?
11:52<Samu>i see, so autosave must be interrupted when a client joins
11:52<@Rubidium>or it should wait till autosave completed
11:53<Samu>yes that's what I was thinking too
11:54<@Rubidium>though technically it should not be needed anymore since the rewrite I did to send the savegame data before compression finished
11:55<@Rubidium>but that still requires some work and checking I guess, as you want to prevent a sort of fork-bomb with saving (if saving, i.e. compressing, takes longer than processing a month of game state)
11:57<Samu>the idea i initially had for server autosaving was using the fastest compression method possible, until I found this
12:00<Samu>maybe the idea could still be applied here
12:01<Samu>in my rig, saving with zlib preset 2 takes 6 seconds, after the memcopy part, on a map sized 4096x4096
12:02<Samu>should be fast enough for monthly autosaves
12:02<Samu>memcopy is about 4-5 seconds
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13:06<Wolf01>so, I just resurrected one pc with ubuntu... as every time forcing the update of the packages resolved the problem
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13:13<Wolf01>and for the second time today, the router decides to cut off the lan
13:14<@Alberth>you ceased to exist for just a moment!
13:14<Wolf01>you all too
13:14<@Alberth>maybe the world re-aligned with you :)
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13:29<supermop>office is so cold
13:30<Wolf01>like my life
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13:39<Wolf01>try not to /0
13:40<supermop>upside down man?
13:41<Wolf01>divide by 0
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27539 trunk/src/lang/hebrew.txt (2016-04-14 19:45:35 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>hebrew: 66 changes by dnd_man
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13:54<andythenorth>also o/
13:54<supermop>work making it had to concentrate on this podcast
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14:08<Eddi|zuHause>i can never listen to anything without concentrating on it completely
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>as soon as i focus on somehting else, it turns into unintelligible blahblah
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14:34*andythenorth ponders
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14:37<Wolf01>"Man accidentally 'deletes his entire company' with one line of bad code"... rm -rf, not code but command, bad article is bad
14:38<andythenorth>oh that one
14:38<andythenorth>could happen to anyone
14:39<andythenorth>better avoided though :P
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14:42<Wolf01>"Mr Marsala confirmed that the code had even deleted all of the backups that he had taken in case of catastrophe." <- is he an evil genius?
14:44<frosch123>maybe he just likes to talk about the empty set
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14:45<andythenorth>he had the backup volumes mounted
14:45<andythenorth>I don’t want to tempt fate here, but the story I read, he is running some kind of backup maintenance / pruning script
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: is that this thing?
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>that looks rather fake to me
14:46<andythenorth>I have learnt the hard way that ‘backup maintenance’ is a synonym for ‘backup loss'
14:47<andythenorth>I thought it was fake, but he has other postings
14:47<Wolf01>I can do only one of these things: nuke my machine | nuke the backups... if I manage to do them both at the same time I'm the king of idiots
14:47<andythenorth>and with ansible, what he describes is highly plausible
14:47<andythenorth>Wolf01: don’t tempt fate :P
14:48<Wolf01>my machine doesn't do backups, it's another machine which logs to my machine and backups everything
14:48<Wolf01>so I can't nuke the backup while nuking my machine
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>there are lots of cases where the backup ticked in after wiping everything, wiping also the (non-incremental) backups
14:48<andythenorth>unless you write a script to ‘maintain’ the backup Wolf01 :P
14:49<andythenorth>and do it wrong
14:49<Wolf01>yes, in that case I'll nuke the backups, but not my machine
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what broke the story for me is the comment at the bottom where he says "i switched if and of"... that can only be a troll...
14:49<Wolf01>you can't nuke something which is readonly
14:49<Wolf01>and indeed, that's a troll :)
14:50<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it did seem to go from bad to worse :)
14:50<andythenorth>Wolf01: some people don’t have readonly or append only backups :P
14:50<andythenorth>they go in and selectively delete, according to rules
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>there was one time where i mistyped "cmp" as "cp" and only noticed halfway through... but i don't think it destroyed any data, since they were meant to be the same anyway
14:53<andythenorth>sync with src and dst swapped is the mistake I have made more than once :P
14:55<Wolf01>I dd'ed the boot partition from HDD the wrong way... the destination to the source, but I had a backup file
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15:00<+glx>luckily not backuped the wrong way ;)
15:01<Wolf01> this is really bad
15:13<@peter1138>oh, not cisco ios
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15:18<andythenorth>that is quite novel
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15:42<supermop>new shinkansen idea:
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16:10<Samu>some help needed.openttd can't have more than 1 DoSave running at the same time
16:10<Samu>it could, if i knew how to code lol
16:11<Samu>saves for the autosave and saves for the client joining, do both at the same time
16:12<Samu>and could even save for the manual save, a 3rd instance
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16:18<Samu>network is immediately sending a DoSave directly without checking if a save is currently occurring :(
16:19<Samu>guess it needs some coding here
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16:46<Samu>hey, this is hard :(
16:47<Samu>NetworkRecvStatus ServerNetworkGameSocketHandler::SendMap()
16:48<Samu>this function must force the client to wait in the queue if the server is currently performing a save
16:49<Samu>wait for the save to end, then once it gets there, start sending the map
16:49<Samu>complicated indeed
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19:30<Samu>the _do_autosave bool is misleading
19:31<Samu>it never returns true when I most need it to return true :(
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 15 00:00:29 2016