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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-15

---Logopened Fri Apr 15 00:00:29 2016
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04:43<Samu>hi
04:56<Samu>I finally figured out why _do_autosave is false, it's the function GameLoop() in openttd.cpp
04:57<Samu>it is setting _do_autosave from true to false too early
05:00<Samu>it only keeps _do_autosave = true as long as DoSave isn't threaded = true
05:02<Samu>if threaded = true in DoSave, only the memcopy part of the autosave will return _do_autosave = true, the encoding part of the autosave returns _do_autosave = false :(
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05:41<Wolf01>moin
05:55<Samu>i need halp, i can't use the _do_autosave bool to detect if the writting to file thread is for the autosave or for another kind of save
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05:56<Wolf01>yes, bool only transport one information: true or false
05:59<Samu>gameloop is receiving the wrong information about _do_autosave, DoSave is retuning an SL_OK all the way back to GameLoop which then makes _do_autosave = false
06:01<Samu>this SL_OK is sent back because of the new thread that is started to write the file, some asynchronous thread if I understand this code
06:02<Samu>it sends the SL_OK too early imo
06:02<Samu>it's still writting to the file
06:02<Samu>what can I do about this?
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06:09<Samu>in short, I was counting on _do_autosave bool to know if the current save in progress was started by the autosave
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06:23<Samu>maybe I need to find a workaround
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06:30<Samu> if (!_do_autosave) ShowErrorMessage(STR_ERROR_SAVE_STILL_IN_PROGRESS, INVALID_STRING_ID, WL_ERROR);
06:30<Samu>this line of code is useless
06:33<Samu>it would work as expected if the current save in progress was not caused by the autosave
06:45<Samu>nevermind, time to think about a workaround
06:46<Samu>that line of code works fine afterall, but it's very misleading
06:47<Samu>the code is already accounting with these misleadings
06:47<Samu>:(
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07:41<Wolf01>V453000, is there a valid reason for the signals icons to show 2 lights in the inventory and 3 lights when placed, while the combo signal in the inventory shows 3 lights but just one when placed?
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08:20<Samu>I think I solved this problem!
08:20<Samu>omg :9
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08:23<Samu>when a client joins, the server is always sending the strong compressed map to client. if the server needs to autosave while it is still sending the map, it doesn't perform the autosave
08:23<Samu>and the opposite
08:25<Samu>when a client joins, but the server is currently performing an autosave, wait for it to save (by stalling openttd), and once its saved, start sending map to client immediately after
08:25<Samu>what I have to deal with is the stalling
08:25<Samu>and it's here that i set the autosave to use the fastest compression method possible
08:26<Samu>to minimize the stall duration
08:27<Samu>the client will receive a strong compressed map
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08:41<Samu>there's probably a better solution to avoid the stall alltogether, but my coding skills won't allow it
08:41<Samu>it would be sending a wait command to the client attempting to join
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09:12<Samu> /* Who removed LZO support? Bad bad boy! */
09:12<Samu>keks
09:21<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p65qyonpa
09:21<Samu>need some help at lines 27,28,29
09:33<argoneus>what do you guys think about memes
09:37<Samu>meh
09:37<Samu>who's a c++ expert?
09:38<Samu>need help on improving the code I wrote on lines 27, 28, 29
09:39<Samu>what I have written there will work, but it's noob coding :(
09:54<supermop>yo
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10:21<Samu>here's the patch, help me with improvements in the code plz http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74731
10:21<supermop>i don't anything about programming
10:22<Samu>:O
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10:39<Samu>hi alb
10:39<Samu>want to test my patch?
10:42<@Alberth>not really
10:42<Samu>:(
10:44<@Alberth>I only play SP, and have maps of around 512x512
10:45<Wolf01>so big? I play 64x128 usually
10:46<supermop>pssh 16*8 is all i i need
10:47<@Alberth>:)
10:48<@Alberth>longer tracks make that sharing tracks is more natural
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11:03<supermop>need to figure out fake capacities for trains now
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11:17<supermop_>hello again
11:19<@Alberth>o/
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11:23<@Rubidium>Samu: what are you trying to accomplish? Slightly faster saves?
11:24<@Rubidium>rather work on checking whether multiple saves can happen simultaniously than adding magic constants that only break future changes
11:24<Samu>autosaves yes
11:25<Samu>what's a magic constant?
11:25<@Rubidium>3
11:25<Samu>the sgf_id?
11:26<@Alberth>any literal value that has no name and explanation is magic
11:26<Samu>i needed help there, i don't know how to improve that part
11:26<Samu>want it to retrive zlib format
11:26<@Rubidium>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_number_%28programming%29
11:29<@Alberth>ha, nice :)
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11:33<Samu>i know my code isn't perfect :(
11:33<Samu>i'm editing a video about this patch, brb
11:34*Rubidium feels like being back 20-ish years
11:34<@Rubidium>internet so slow...
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11:41*Rubidium also wonders why he gets notified that the planned arrival time of a flight is 1 minute earlier; on 8 hours, that's pointless information because the weather will have a more significant impact on arrival time than this
11:42<@Alberth>they want to make a good impression :)
11:42<@Alberth>or the person doing the announcement was bored :p
11:43<@Rubidium>it's probably automated
11:43<@Alberth>you could ask about the significance of that announcement at some help desk :p
11:43<@Rubidium>TMWFTLB
11:43<@Alberth>:)
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11:44<@Rubidium>it's automated and adding code to prevent sending mails when arriving 1 minute earlier it probably also TMWFTLB for them
11:44<@Rubidium>because I can't think of someone making the whole mail for just 1 minute
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11:45<@Rubidium>if it were that I had to be an hour earlier on the airport, then I could imagine it being useful
11:45<Samu>video, old behaviour and my patch behaviour > https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!1266&authkey=!AJMEWu0YEm5sFo0&ithint=file%2cmp4
11:45<Samu>hope video loads
11:45*Rubidium won't even try
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12:01<Eddi|zuHause>your 20-years-ago internet speed is probably my 5-years-ago internet speed :p
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12:04<@Rubidium>it's about 64 kbps (or 8 kBps)
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>ok, that makes it 10 years ago :p
12:08<@Rubidium>10-14 years ago I had the fastest internet
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12:08<@Alberth>:)
12:09<@Rubidium>what I would have at home is merely 30% (down) or 3% (up) of what I had back then
12:09<@Rubidium>but then, what's a fast internet connection when the other side is slow
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12:31<Samu>16:24] <@Rubidium> rather work on checking whether multiple saves can happen simultaniously
12:32<Samu>it cannot
12:32<@Rubidium>in any case, being in a place where things are worse than where you normally live makes me appreciate what I have more. So in the end having some bad/slow internet makes me happier about the internet I have at home
12:33<Samu>i tried to let openttd do the autosave and sending map to client at the same time, but... either part gets corrupted
12:33<Samu>there can only be 1 DoSave running at a time
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12:37<Samu>maybe it's possible, but my coding skills suck, can't see an easy way about that
12:39<@Rubidium>so work on unsucking your codin skills
12:40<Samu>:)
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13:04<Samu>ok i need to think of a model to deal with these saves
13:05<Samu>a structure, or whatever
13:05<Samu>dont know the name
13:06<Samu>something like a queue for savegames
13:06<Samu>similar in nature to what happens with multiple clients trying to join, clients wait in queue
13:12<Samu>SaveWithFilter function
13:12<Samu>SaveOrLoad function
13:13<Samu>SaveFileToDiskThread function too
13:14<Samu>name is misleading
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13:14<Samu>SafeFileToWhateverFilterYouHaveChosenThread
13:16<Samu>SaveMemoryDumpToWhateverFilterYouHaveChosenThread
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>my internet was upgraded from 16/1 to 50/10 recently
13:24<Wolf01>my internet was upgraded to 4/0.5 5 years ago, it was 2/0.5, no chances to upgrade anymore
13:25<supermop_>my internet was upgraded from "australian" to fiber optic recently
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13:31<Eddi|zuHause>fibre is virtually unknown in germany
13:32<Wolf01>here too
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>(ftth that is, the backbones do use fibre)
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13:36<@peter1138>many providers are calling fttc "fibre"
13:36<@peter1138>lying scum
13:36<Wolf01>I live in a rural area and the best option is the wimax, but a friend had lots of problems with that (from trees in the line of sight to signal loss in too sunny or rainy days), so I'll keep the standard adsl
13:37<@peter1138>fttp is ... not readily available, and expensive
13:37<+glx>we have one calling cable "fibre" here
13:37<+glx>other use "fibre" only for ftth
13:38<@peter1138>virgin media call their coax cable fibre
13:38<+glx>it's numericable/sfr here
13:38<@peter1138>pretty much all the vdsl fttc providers call that fibre broadband too
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13:42<Wolf01>quak
13:42<frosch123>hola
13:45<@Alberth>quak
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14:48<Wolf01>ha! I found I have a bundle of hidden objects games and I totally forgot about it
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15:04<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose my current connection is FTTC, but i don't really know
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15:21<supermop_>yo andythenorth
15:21<andythenorth>o/
15:21<supermop_>more train sets running about?
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15:38<supermop_>ive got names and capacities now
15:38<supermop_>not sure if the numbers make sense though
15:39<supermop_>so might just start drawing more sprites
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15:46<andythenorth>supermop_: got wagons? o_O
15:46<supermop_>nope
15:46<supermop_>not drawn at least
15:47<supermop_>are there big differences in the wagon properties between rosters?
15:48<supermop_>i guess if i were to have, say, only 6/8 wagons id need capacity lower
15:50<andythenorth>the capacity is driven more by narrow gauge / standard gauge
15:50<supermop_>yeah
15:50<andythenorth>narrow gauge is cheaper, but lower capacity per tile
15:50<andythenorth>so longer trains for the same cargo
15:50<supermop_>i want freight capacity lower than pony roster
15:50<supermop_>was thinking 70% or so?
15:50<andythenorth>have a look at antelope
15:51<andythenorth>it’s probably the same
15:51<supermop_>japan is 1067mm but loading gauge not that much smaller than UK
15:51<andythenorth>same as cape gauge in africa
15:52<supermop_>but you do see only 20' containers on flatbeds there, no 40'
15:52<andythenorth>there are gameplay upper and lower limits to capacity
15:52<andythenorth>lower is ~20t, upper ~100t
15:52<andythenorth>and there needs to be progression on 2 or 3 generations
15:59<supermop_>i think the 12t wagons of pony NG wont cut it, even for 1880s
15:59<supermop_>unless add old sub-meter stuff
16:01<supermop_>so much rivet counting to do to read up on old wagon types
16:01<supermop_>can i just invent 3 fake generations?
16:02<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHWjelxe_MU
16:02<andythenorth>supermop_: just invent wagons
16:03<supermop_>crazy pantograph sparks in that vid
16:08<supermop_>can i just leave work at 4:10 for 3 beers?
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16:10<supermop_>beer sounds better than researching wagons
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16:12<andythenorth>supermop_: if it’s 04:10, definitely
16:12<supermop_>haha
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16:18<supermop_>nothing in IH has a car carrier yet?
16:20<supermop_>no idea who the english version of the JR Freight website is supposed to be targeted towards
16:22<supermop_>anyone who doesn't understand the concepts presented in these infographics already is in no position to be placing an order for moving freight around anyway
16:22<supermop_>http://www.jrfreight.co.jp/english/business/logistics.html
16:22<supermop_>let alone from one part of Japan to another
16:22<supermop_>i guess investors?
16:33<andythenorth>there is a car carrier in Brit Pony
16:35<supermop_>ah have yet to play a "vehicles" game with pony
16:35<supermop_>i'll be taking that then
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17:32<Samu>i'm duplicating the whole _save_thread related code
17:32<Samu>i bet this is the wrong approach
17:33<Samu>there will be 2 save threads
17:33<Samu>1 for autosaves, 1 for the other saves
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19:36<Samu>I have nearly duplicated the save thread functions
19:37<Samu>needs more testing though
19:39<Samu>ok, the idea i have is: the first save thread will handle manual saving and sending maps to clients
19:39<Samu>the second thread is exclusively for autosaves
19:42<Samu>perhaps it should be arranged differently
19:42<Samu>have to thing better
19:42<Samu>think*
19:43<Samu>an exclusive thread of sending map to client while the other is for autosave and manual save
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22:35<Flygon>I do wonder how older Victorians, and current day Finns, handle reading about VR all the time
22:35<Flygon>VR this. VR that.
22:35<Flygon>The articles mean Virtual Reality
22:36<Flygon>But Victorians see it as Victorian Railways, and Finns as... well, their own VR railways too :D
22:47<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like whenever people talk about SC2 i think of sim city 2000?
22:48<Eddi|zuHause>that state lasts about 2 seconds...
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 16 00:00:30 2016