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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-18

---Logopened Mon Apr 18 00:00:33 2016
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01:57<GriffinOneTwo_>so, I haven't done anything with Open TTD in many months, if not years, I ran across some neat photos of some passenger Terminus station in France somewhere, created an tt-forums account, created a off topic post (I thought I read the posting rules {I just reread, I don't see what I did wrong}), and got promptly banned? Does that happen much, or is it likely I really screwed up?
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05:19<Samu>oh god, how dumb excel online is at calculating values on a table
05:19<Samu>it is always automating stuff and ruining the calculations
05:47<Samu>what is the average upload speed of openttd servers?
05:56<Samu>okay, the idea I have about encoding vs uploading is to make openttd automate the choice of an encoding preset if you give ottd the upload rate of your internet connection, but this alone isn't enough. It also needs to know the capabilities of your cpu.
05:57<Samu>goal would be to start encoding at the optimal preset to send that file to a client, but in this case it assumes the client download speed matches the upload speed of the server
05:59<Wolf01>figure it
06:02<Samu>the greatest unknown variable here is knowing the capabilities of your cpu
06:04*Wolf01 reboots
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06:11<Samu>i'll give an example, sort this by upload rate:!1271&authkey=!AAIUn3D6oXYFDM4&ithint=file%2cxlsx
06:12<Samu>supposing you have a FX-8150, the calculated encoding speed for each presets are calculated on that sheet
06:12<Samu>converting it to upload rates, you get an average speed of that encoder
06:13<Samu>for my case, my internet connection has an upload rate of 3000 kbps
06:13<Samu>I want then to exclude all the encoders which are slower than 3000
06:14<Samu>they are the lzma presets from 5 to 9, these are excluded
06:14<Samu>the best choice so far is then zlib preset 9 with 3591 kbps
06:15<Samu>but now, i have to pay attention the resulting compressed size, and i start selecting those which result in fast encoding speeds from 3000 upwards
06:15<Samu>have openttd find the smallest compressed size
06:16<Samu>and i will end up with lzma preset 3
06:16<Samu>this would be the choice
06:16<Samu>given fx-8150 and an upload of 3000 kbps, tell openttd to encode with lzma preset 3 to send the file to a client joining the sever
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06:38<Samu>is it a bad idea?
06:39<Wolf01>what you are trying to do depends on too many variables
06:42<Wolf01>or better, if you will update the sheet and ottd functions from now to eternity, it might be an idea
06:45<Wolf01>also, what happens if I tell ottd I have 20M connection and I'm downloading stuff all the day? what happens if I use ottd from a thumb drive in more computers with really different specs?
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06:52<Samu>i see :(
06:53<Samu>biggest variable however, as I see it, is the cpu
06:55<Samu>the internet upload rate would be a value you'd have to setup on a server config
06:55<Samu>the value is used to exclude slower presets
06:55<Samu>but i see what u mean with downloading all day
06:59<Wolf01>you could implement a way to do some checks every time the game is started, but we already have the grf check which takes a lot of time, don't expect me to wait for connection check and hardware check too
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07:14<Samu>the checking doesn't have to be on launching openttd
07:14<Samu>but perhaps before server creation
07:15<Samu>or on server creation
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07:21<Samu>hmm, maybe even during the duration of a server
07:22<Samu>log the encoding time data each time a client joins
07:24<Samu>then make use of that data to estimate capabilities of the cpu? hmm
07:24<Samu>yeah... difficult
07:26<Samu>actually, autosaves could serve this purpose
07:28<Samu>use a different preset everytime an autosave is starting, log the time it took to compress for each preset
07:29<Samu>~but i see, this is not easy
07:29<Samu>sometimes servers dont' have autosaves enabled
07:29<Samu>ok, i give up
07:36<Wolf01>why the single player game shouldn't benefit from the savegame compression too?
07:55<Wolf01>V453000, does the steam version of factorio has drm?
08:03<Wolf01>I mean, does it requires steam to be running to launch it? Because this is a shared pc and there is a lot of trouble with steam accounts, so I might download the installer from the site instead
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08:09<joepie91>quick note for any OpenTTD devs lingering around; reading the content server client code atm, and one of the comments appears to be inaccurate... in network_content.cpp, in ClientNetworkContentSocketHandler::RequestContentList(uint count, const ContentID *content_ids), it claims that it will add a byte for the content type and then a uint16 for the count of IDs in the packet, but as far as I can tell there's only the count uint16, and
08:09<joepie91>nothing relating to content type is being added
08:10<joepie91>r27546 it seems
08:12<Samu>Wolf01: hmm, what speed is expected for single player savegames?
08:12<Samu>the fastest possible?
08:12<Samu>that would be lzo
08:17<Samu>or zlib 2 if lzo is not to be used
08:17<Samu>lzo is having some issues :(
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08:29<joepie91>who do I talk to about things in the code that *look* like bugs but may or may not be?
08:30<Wolf01>just write here and wait for an answer
08:31<joepie91>right. so right now I'm looking at ClientNetworkContentSocketHandler::RequestContentList(ContentVector *cv, bool send_md5sum)
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08:32<joepie91>it asserts the length of the list of content vectors by reserving 20 bytes for each and checking if the size checks out
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08:32<joepie91>comment says sizeof(uint32) + sizeof(md5sum (byte[16]))
08:32<joepie91>however, that's not what it writes for each item
08:33<joepie91>instead, it writes uint8 (content type), uint32 (item ID), optionally byte[16] (md5sum)
08:33<joepie91>so it looks to me like that assertion is off by one byte per item
08:33<joepie91>mind, I'm not a C++ developer, so I may be missing something
08:34<joepie91>this is still in network_content.cpp btw
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08:36<joepie91>from the looks of it, it ignores the uint8 in both md5sum and no-md5sum cases
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09:02<V453000>Wolf01: the zip is probably a better option for you but I believe it should be drm free
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09:07<Wolf01>just finished to download it, it requires steam, so I think I'll do with the installer
09:11<Wolf01>my best friend died this morning, I'm hoping they accept the RMA for its internal organs, but I'll have to stay at least 3 weeks without it :(
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09:29<supermop>hows it going 5 or 6 hours in the future?
09:30<Wolf01>bad :(
09:33<Wolf01>I have to rely on my old best friend now for some time, but the place is a bit uncomfortable, cold, dusty (more than my room) and I don't even have room to stretch my legs
09:35<Wolf01>also the keyboard is weird and the mouse must be shaken a bit to awake it
09:39<V453000>WIRE MASTER RACE
09:39<Alkel_U3>I know that feeling. 2 years ago my laptop fried, shifting me back from an i7 with 8 GB RAM to an olden AMD with 2 GB. It was then I realized what frustration is.
09:43<Wolf01>keyboard is weird <- not an error, it is weird
09:43<Wolf01>it is one of the trust gaming series
09:45<Wolf01>the backlight doesn't work anymore (after just a year), the keys are small and of shitty plastic
09:47<supermop>3d print some metal ones?
09:48<Wolf01>nah, I would like to use my logitech one, but I don't want to share it with others :P
09:49<Wolf01>man, the installation of visual studio takes ages
09:50<Wolf01>I bet I'll get a fully automated industry on factorio before it will finish
09:52<Wolf01>oh finally switching to electric power :D
09:53<Wolf01>35 minutes, I could do better next time
10:02<Wolf01>lol the display: "power off in 5 minutes to save energy, press a button to avoid power off"... guess what button I pressed?
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10:13<Samu>visual studio express is warning me the trial expires in 9 days :(
10:13<Samu>i thought this was free forever
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10:16<blathijs>Samu: Perhaps you have full features now and some of them will be disabled? (Just guessing)
10:18<Samu>Sign in to unlock the product
10:18<Samu>sign in to what?
10:19<Samu>they want my email!
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10:20<Samu>by the look of it, I need a microsoft account to keep using visual studio 2015 express for desktop
10:20<Samu>meh, ok
10:23<Samu>success! this product is licensed to ""
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11:39<Wolf01>ok, compiled successfully
11:39<Wolf01>now... emulators :|
11:41<Wolf01>running factorio again
11:42<@Alberth>building an emulator in factorio? :)
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12:00<Samu>i'd like to know all the different ways openttd creates a savegame
12:00<Samu>savegame on crash, autosave, manual save, this kind of stuff
12:04<Samu>i have many ideas flowing in my head
12:05<Samu>i see code for a save on exit, I didn't know of this
12:08<Samu>fastforwarding games could benefit from very fast encoding autosaves
12:10<Samu>some kind of bool table system in a function that detects how the savegame is being requested and return the better encoder for that request
12:12<Samu>network games would have autosavesand manual saves set to use the fastest possible encoder
12:12<Samu>network games would have sending map to client would have another kind of encoder
12:12<Samu>erm repetition
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12:39<Samu>ewww... there's a lot of ways, i see
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12:46<Wolf01>finally downloaded the virtual machines but mmmh, no hardware virtualization, I guess I should peek in the bios
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12:47<Samu>what is this code about... desync savegames?
12:48<Samu>it is creating savegames for desyncs?
12:48<Samu>how does that work?
12:48<Taede>saves a game every frame (or something) which can then be replayed
12:48<Taede>to establish what is the cause of a desync
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12:57<Samu>that would be extremely slow :(
12:58<Samu>every frame? can't even see that happening
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14:22<Samu>who's a code expert
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14:24<Samu>how do I make this code smarter, without magic numbering stuff
14:24<Samu>sgf_id especially
14:26<@Alberth>you ever considered reading a book about c++ ?
14:26<Samu>yes but gave up
14:27<@Alberth>so now we must do your coding?
14:27<Wolf01>Declare the numbers as constant and give them a meaningful name
14:29<Samu>but I don't have to, they are already in a table, if only i knew how to get them directly from the table into the &_saveload_formats[x]
14:30<Samu>that x is a number from 0 to 3
14:31<Samu>0 is lzo, 1 is none, 2 is zlib, 3 is lzma
14:31<@Alberth>so 2 is a meaningful name eh?
14:32<Wolf01>The table is made by you or it's already in the code somewhere?
14:32<Samu>it's already in the code
14:32<Samu>not made by me
14:33<@Alberth>"lastof()" doesn't look like you wrte it :)
14:33<Samu>lastof just picks lzma for default
14:33<Samu>uses lzma for every savegame
14:38<Wolf01>And what if one of the first methods isn't available? The numbers are always the same?
14:38<@Alberth>actually, it does a bit more; if I add a better compression method at the end, it will pick that one, ie not lzma always, but the last one
14:38<@Alberth>good point Wolf01
14:39<Samu>it's like a table inside a table
14:39<Samu>lzma has its parameters
14:39<Samu>independent than the others
14:41<Samu>this is the table;a=blob;f=src/saveload/saveload.cpp;h=b1a21844f355fc18dfb1b80f7b01e8df33a2b202;hb=HEAD#l2345
14:42<Samu>line 2385 has that part i'm editing const SaveLoadFormat *def = lastof(_saveload_formats);
14:43<Wolf01>The problem is that one of the methods isn't available your code won't work, or you have to define the default one
14:44<@Alberth>eg what if lzma is not availalble?
14:44<Samu>it borks !
14:45<Wolf01>or even zlib
14:45<Samu>it has to have one at least
14:45<Samu>lastof must be in there I see
14:45<Wolf01>yes but if I have just one, what are 2 and 3?
14:46<Wolf01>lastof() works
14:46<Wolf01>but how do you chose a different method in this case?
14:47<Samu>so, my code must be written after that line, not before
14:47<Wolf01>I mean, you want to compress with zlib, but I only have lzmaè
14:51<Samu>if no zlib, resort to using default
14:51<Samu>if no lzma or zlib or anything, resort to using default
14:52<Wolf01>assuming the compression none doesn't change and it's always 2, I think you could do "int sgf_id = lastof(_saveload_formats)"
14:52<Samu>none is 1
14:52<Samu>it starts counting from 0
14:53<Wolf01>ok, I misread it
14:53<Wolf01>then how do you get the default?
14:54<Samu>i think the question is, how do I change the default
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14:54<Samu>ok let me try something
14:54<Wolf01>you are already changing the default
14:55<Wolf01>but to *what* is unknown
14:59<Samu>iterate over all available formats and look for zlib? something like that? and if it exists, switch default to that, but i can't seem to write this, it errors
15:00<Samu>gonna try writing stuff brb
15:03<Samu>* @param s Name of the savegame format. If NULL it picks the first available one
15:08<Samu>hmm i think i understand
15:08<Samu>if (_network_server && _sl.autosaveinprogress) *s = OTTZ;
15:09<Samu>gonna try this one step at a time
15:11<Samu>if (_network_server && _sl.autosaveinprogress) *s = 'OTTZ';
15:17<Wolf01>yes a string would do it
15:17<Wolf01>learn the basics please
15:17<Samu>if (_network_server && _sl.autosaveinprogress) *s = TO_BE32X('OTTZ');
15:19<Samu>:( basics
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15:50<Samu>i broke visual studio
15:50<Samu>it's always telling me format O is not available, reverting to lzma
15:51<Samu>i already reverted all changes, what's wrong
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15:56<Samu>i'm terrible at this :(
16:00<Samu>i broke this
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16:25<Samu>what is wrong damn it :)(
16:25<Samu>what is a configuration file?
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16:26<Samu>the real 1.6.0 is now crashing too... why's that?
16:27<Samu>ah... configuration file, they mean openttd.cfg
16:31<Samu>savegame_format = O
16:31<Samu>so this simple O in openttd.cfg was making me lose my mind
16:32<Samu>problem solved
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17:40<Samu>i had no idea savegame format could be configured in openttd.cfg :(
17:41<Samu>this voids almost 100% of my ideas
17:42<Samu>i'm always learning something new about openttd
17:46<Samu>I am so sad now :8
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17:56<Samu>well this means you actually support lzo
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18:36<Samu>can I ask for a favour? are you able to join this server?
18:37<Samu>openttd 1.6.0
18:37<Samu>i've set lzo in openttd.cfg, just wondering if you get an error about loading savegame
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20:05<Samu>hmm, i guess the name "faster server autosaves" no longer apply
20:05<Samu>there's nothing about speeding up autosaves anymore :(
20:06<Samu>it just speeds up all saves on servers
20:07<Samu>i'm sure this approach is bad
20:07<Samu>don't have much time to think now, maybe tomorrow I can come up with something better about all this
20:10<Samu>point a.2) is my main concern
20:10<Samu>will think about it tomorrow, cyas goodnight
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23:34-!-ttech2 [] has joined #openttd
23:35-!-funnel_ [~funnel@] has joined #openttd
23:36-!-Xaroth|W1rk [~XarothAtW@] has joined #openttd
23:36-!-Sirenia_ [~sirenia@] has joined #openttd
23:37-!-Netsplit <-> quits: Sirenia, Sylf, Ram-Z, @Belugas, Ttech, funnel, Kurimus, murr4y, txtsd, guru3, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
23:37-!-txtsd_ is now known as txtsd
23:37-!-funnel_ is now known as funnel
23:37-!-Belugas [~belugas@] has joined #openttd
23:37-!-mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
23:37-!-Netsplit over, joins: Sylf, blathijs, murr4y, Ram-Z
23:43-!-_dp_ [~dP@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe69:152c] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:45-!-Sirenia_ is now known as Sirenia
23:51-!-Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:4596:f7df:be02:f7ad] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:58-!-Flygon_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
---Logclosed Tue Apr 19 00:00:34 2016