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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-24

---Logopened Sun Apr 24 00:00:42 2016
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04:22<@Alberth>hi hi
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05:48<Samu>SetDParam(0, (_game_mode != GM_NORMAL || (_game_mode == GM_NORMAL && IsEditable((CompanyID)selected_slot) && (!Company::IsValidID(selected_slot) || Company::IsValidAiID(selected_slot) && Company::Get(selected_slot)->ai_instance->IsDead()))) ? STR_AI_CONFIG_CONFIGURE : STR_AI_DEBUG_SETTINGS);
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05:57<@Alberth>you don't think I am going to decipher that, right?
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06:00<Samu>sec, i post patch
06:01<Samu>i mean, paste, not gonna post yet, not ready
06:03<Samu>couldn't do better than this
06:05<@Alberth>if you break that line in 2 "bool b = ....; SetDParemt(0, b ? ... : ...); " would be better
06:05<@Alberth>but that's not the biggest problem
06:06<@Alberth>I have absolutely no idea what code you're hacking, or how that code works. It would cost me several hours to understand the code and then your patch
06:07<Samu>yah, bools
06:09<Samu>if in a normal game and selected slot is GS, have the button change text to "Settings"
06:09<Samu>otherwise, "Configure"
06:09<Samu>the other is a bit harder
06:10<Samu>it is about finding a dead AI slot, if it finds one, say "Configure", if not, say "Settings"
06:10<@Alberth>why are you changing max companies values in a "change button text" patch?
06:13<Samu>it's the continuation of what I was doing
06:14<Samu>a week or 2 ago
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06:21<Wolf01>anybody good with TCL?
06:22<@Alberth>I have no doubt about that, but you seem to be doing lots of different stuff, I don't follow that at all
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06:23<@Alberth>changing the text of a button should be around 10 lines of code probably a lot less, even
06:24<@Alberth>just making a big dump and adding a "?" isn't going to work, imho
06:25<@Alberth>Ha, I dropped TCL in favour of Python, around 20 years ago :p
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06:29<@Alberth>Samu: simplify the change to as few lines as possible, just for changing the text. Even just a partial patch eg just one condition to change the text suffices. Once you get the idea expanding the conditions or replicating the same thing 100 times is easy to do afterwards
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06:57<Samu>a patch for a patch
07:00<Wolf01>Alberth, I found a problem in a tcl script (seen), it returns 0 for some nicks without any reason
07:02<Wolf01>I suppose it's because the author used strings as lists, but other nicks with the same symbols work
07:03<@Alberth>in TCL everything is a string
07:04<@Alberth>the puzzle is always the order of evaluation, which you state with quotes
07:04<Wolf01>yes, but if you use lindex for a string with {[(" it breaks
07:05<@Alberth>oh, could be, it has been some time :p
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07:05<@Alberth>but I got sick of the quote puzzle stuff, it gets messy at > 2 levels, so I dropped TCL when I found Python (1.5, at the time)
07:06<Wolf01>I'm trying to replace some occurrencies with [lindex [split $string]] but seem to be worse :/
07:07<Wolf01>also this stuff is a pita to debug, every time I must reload the bot
07:07<@Alberth>take out the offending lines, and run it as a separate tcl script?
07:08<Wolf01>eheh, if only I can find the offending lines
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07:08<Samu> I trimed the code just for string change, but this code alone makes little sense without the rest of it :(
07:09<Wolf01>I figured out it should just be the part which prompts the result, because the reading goes well
07:09<Wolf01>also the variables have the right values
07:10<Samu>IsEditable has different rules in the original trunk version
07:10<@Alberth>Samu: looks good enough, you change both the button text and the tool tip?
07:11<Samu>i'd like to change the tooltip, i can't manage to do it
07:11<@Alberth>I would suggest only change the text now
07:12<@Alberth>also instead of a complicated boolean condition, just set it to one string in the switch , and test, then set it to the other string and test
07:12<@Alberth>if that works, you know the widget and the switch work
07:13<@Alberth>if that works, add a boolean with a simple case, instead of the zillion things you have now, and test if it switches
07:13<@Alberth>if it does, add more condition, test again, and so on until you have all cases
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07:14<@Alberth>don't do everything in one giant leap acros the sea if you can\t swim, take small steps
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>oh, snow. how very april.
07:16<Wolf01>rainy here ::/
07:16<Wolf01>leave a pair of eyes..
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>well, it stops being snow the instant it hits the ground :p
07:20<argoneus>good morning train friends
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>so many words wrong in that greeting. every time.
07:22<Wolf01>the only right word is "train"
07:28<Wolf01>fuck... it uses it's own variable for nick length, and it was set to 9, the nick was 11
07:29<Wolf01>if {[string length $data] > $bs(nicksize)} {return 0} <- really meaningful :|
07:29<@Alberth>I always consider "train friend" the wrong part, mostly
07:30<Samu>if (bla) SetDParam else SetDParam ?
07:30<@Alberth>ha, otherwise people would make too long nicks? :)
07:31<Wolf01>it was set for undernet which has a limit of 9 chars
07:32<Samu>i have a hard time to understand your lingo
07:32<Wolf01>I can't even understand why it doesn't use the global nick length set on the config
07:32<@Alberth>Samu: Your idea could work SetDParam(.. , b ? X : Y) is good too, but limit length of a statement to 80-100 characters or so. If you need more, break it into more lines, so you can just read it without having t decipher pairs of parentheses from a big jumble of symbols
07:33<Samu>I made this
07:34<@Alberth>it's the same idea as writing several short sentences on irc, instead of a long 1000 word text on one line
07:36<Wolf01>now I should figure out how to maintain an index of the help sections for my script
07:36<@Alberth>Samu: first step is just unconditionally SetDParam(0, STR_AI_CONFIG_CONFIGURE);
07:36<@Alberth>that should work
07:37<@Alberth>then unconditionally SetDParam(0, STR_AI_DEBUG_SETTINGS);
07:37<@Alberth>that sohlud work too
07:37<Samu>unconditionally means, without if?
07:39<Samu>oh, strange, that's confusing me, how would it check?
07:39<@Alberth>if things fail, simplify stuff out of the way, so you get a handle on where the problem actually is
07:39<@Alberth>rather than random guessing and trying
07:39<@Alberth>putting things together again afterwards is quite easy if all the pieces work
07:40<@Alberth>how would it check what ?
07:41<@Alberth>if you always set that string, it should show at the button, shouldn't it?
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07:41<@Alberth>if it doesn't something is wrong
07:42<Samu>first step is SetDParam(0, STR_AI_CONFIG_CONFIGURE);
07:42<Samu>what if it's not
07:44<Samu>the problem is probably in the widget
07:44<@Alberth>then your SetDParam isn't working
07:44<Samu>line 10
07:44<@Alberth>and not for example in the big condition or the if
07:45<@Alberth>more likely it's in the string texts
07:45<@Alberth>or you never reach "default" in the switch
07:46<@Alberth>ie the SetSParam is never executed
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07:52<Samu>i need a if to decide to what it changes
07:52<Samu>if I don't put ifs there, where would I put them?
07:53<@Alberth>your code doesn't work right?
07:54<@Alberth>and you want to find out why
07:54<Samu>partially works
07:54<@Alberth>one good strategy is to remove as much as you can, and try if it works
07:55<@Alberth>if it still does not work, the problem is in the code you still have
07:55<@Alberth>if it does work, the problem is in the code you removed
07:56<@Alberth>so by throwing some code away, and testing, you are one step closer to finding where the problem is exactly
07:56<Samu>the conditions work
07:57<Samu>what i'd like to do however is to also do this for the TOOLTIP part
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07:57<@Alberth>as I said yesterday already, you cannot use string parameters for that
07:57<@Alberth>you have to change the string itself
07:58<@Alberth>inside the widget
07:58<Samu>i tried, couldn't manage to do it, intellisense was complaining too much
07:59<@Alberth>that's a message I cannot help you with anything
07:59<@Alberth>"it does not work" contains no clue whatsoever why or how or what
08:00<Samu>the conditions work, it changes the button to "Configure" or "Settings". This part I tested. Sorry
08:01<Samu>the tooltip is the hardest part, gonna try do something again
08:03<Samu>"Configure" will have "Configure tooltip", "Settings" will have "Settings tooltip"
08:03<Samu>this is what's missing
08:04<Samu>sorry, lunch time, be back later with this
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09:22<Samu>i can't do it as a parameter
09:22<Samu>oninvalidate ?
09:23<@Alberth>tooltip gets handled directly by the generic mouse handling, the window is never used
09:24<@Alberth>aside from retrieving the widget you queried
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09:41<Ethereal_Whisper>mfw I accidentally bulldoze an important line and create a traffic jam that lasts for 2 years
09:42<Wolf01>reload the last autosave
09:43<Ethereal_Whisper>I fixed it already, heh
09:43<@Alberth>repairing is much more fun :p
09:43<Wolf01>You reminded me to repair that lone outpost near the biters nest
09:44<@Alberth>better check it's still there :)
09:45<@Alberth>but indeed, accidents happen when you modify things at or near a live transport line :)
09:45<Wolf01>Oh, it is, don't worry, I have laser turrets now... upgraded to 3 (both damage and speed)
09:45<@Alberth>poor aliens :(
09:45<Ethereal_Whisper>How do I remove just part of a station again? Control-Click with bulldozer?
09:46<@Alberth>select station building, then the bulldozer
09:46<@Alberth>click removes a tile iirc, ctl+click also the tracks
09:47<@Alberth>just bulldoze without the station build kills the station
09:47<@Alberth>or was that dynamite? don't remember
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>that was dynamite
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>but i think it now leaves the tracks behind
09:47<Ethereal_Whisper>Had a RoRo expansion go wrong, forgot to leave room for a block signal in front of it
09:47<@Alberth>so just bulldozer doesn't do anything with stations?
09:48<Ethereal_Whisper>It bulldozes the entire station
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>bulldozer is always used with another tool
09:48<Ethereal_Whisper>Bad idea if you just want to modify one of the platforms
09:48<@Alberth>ah right, as I remembered
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>cannot be activated alone
09:48<@Alberth>ah, could be
09:49<@Alberth>I always use the keyboard, hardly ever look at the construction bar
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10:09<Samu>holy crap i think i did it
10:10<Samu>got this working somehow
10:11<Samu>I set it on OnInvalidateData instead of SetStringParameters
10:14<Samu>i got to simplify that bool
10:14<@Alberth>sure, SetDataTip works
10:22<Samu>will have to simplify that, must think
10:23<Samu>how do i patch my patch?
10:23<Samu>if that is possible
10:24<Samu>it only lets me select a folder to apply a patch, not a patch
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10:25<Samu>bah, i'll edit by hand
10:27<@Alberth>there are patch utils to operate on patch files, but even for linux, they are not installed by default, so pretty niche
10:28<@Alberth>standard solution is to apply both patches after each other on the same set of files, then ask for the diff of that folder relative to the unmodified version
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10:33<Ethereal_Whisper>Why the hell is my 8-track RoRo station so congested
10:35<FLHerne>Ethereal_Whisper: Screenshots?
10:35<Ethereal_Whisper>I just blew it up. Going to completely redesign it
10:35<FLHerne>If the exit layout causes trains to wait for each other too much, you get already-full trains standing in the platforms, which kills throughput
10:38<FLHerne>Make sure you have standing room after each platform before the merge, because some waiting is inevitable
10:39<Ethereal_Whisper> this is the space I'm working with and load balancing
10:40<Ethereal_Whisper>Far right platform is part of an S-bahn single-track point-to-point, don't mind it
10:40<Ethereal_Whisper>I think I'm going to just delete that line
10:41<@Alberth>those pieces of track seem pretty useless unless you have very short trains
10:41<Ethereal_Whisper>Train length is 3.0
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>i know why your trains get stuck. the tracks are not connected to anything.
10:42<@Alberth>better use all space after the platform instead of twice not doing much imho
10:43<@Alberth>1 tile signal, 3 tiles train, 1 tile signal, and a turn/merge
10:43<Ethereal_Whisper>Eddi|zuHause, lol
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>no, but seriously. build the whole thing, send the trains in there, and then show us a picture with the trains
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>THEN maybe we can tell you where your bottleneck is
10:44<Ethereal_Whisper>I've got a shit ton of exit space if I build long exits... I think I dare to blow up some of the city for the sake of efficiency. It'll re-grow
10:46<@Alberth>yep, TIAS is a good strategy in these things :)
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>also, split/join your lines in stages, like 1-2 <trainlength> 2-4 <trainlength> 4-8 <platform>, or 1-3 <trainlength> 3-9 <platform>
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>same backwards
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>that way, trains which are not at full speed yet will not block each other so much
10:53<Samu>what's the difference between INVALID_OWNER and INVALID_COMPANY?
10:54<@Alberth>there are more owners than companies
10:54<Ethereal_Whisper>Alright, I got a design down
10:54<Samu>INVALID_OWNER = 0xFF, ///< An invalid owner
10:55<Samu>INVALID_COMPANY = 0xFF, ///< An invalid company
10:55<@Alberth>any INVALID_XXX is 0xFF
10:58<Samu>ok, gonna use INVALID_COMPANY
11:01<Ethereal_Whisper> that's the redesign
11:01<Ethereal_Whisper>I think I messed something up still
11:05<Ethereal_Whisper>Split the entrance lines
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>no point in merging two unrelated lines only to split them apart a tile later
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>make two separate entrances/exits for each line
11:07<Ethereal_Whisper>That's what I did. Splits into lines A and B, line A uses platforms 1-4, line B uses platforms 5-8
11:10<Ethereal_Whisper>For reference, 52 trains are serving it
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's a pretty meaningless number
11:23<Ethereal_Whisper>Oh hey, the congestion has cleared
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11:37<Samu>i really need a GS script that dies
11:38<Samu>for my testings
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12:18<V453000>hm musa says you must pass a configuration file
12:18<V453000>but I believe I do
12:18<V453000>esp weird because it always used to work
12:21<@Rubidium>missing space, space too many, wrong working directory?
12:21<V453000>it is called from the same directory where the config is
12:21<@Rubidium>tab instead of space?
12:21<@Rubidium>.cfg instead of .ini?
12:21<V453000>are spaces, is ini
12:23<Samu>i'm slightly confused. CompanyID can accept OWNER_DEITY?
12:24<Samu>or only 0-14?
12:25<V453000>should I try to give musa absolute paths?
12:25<V453000>sounds majorly bs, since it used to work earlier
12:26<V453000>on a different machine, I wonder if win10 can fuck this up as well
12:28<Samu>explain me this thing
12:28<Samu>template <> struct EnumPropsT<Owner> : MakeEnumPropsT<Owner, byte, OWNER_BEGIN, OWNER_END, INVALID_OWNER> {};
12:28<Samu>OWNER_BEGIN is = 0x00
12:29<Samu>OWNER_END is = 0x13
12:29<Samu>OWNER_DEITY is = 0x12
12:29<Samu>can i use CompanyID to refer to a game script, even though it's not really a company?
12:29<Samu>game script uses OWNER_DEITY
12:31<Samu>INVALID_OWNER is = 0xFF
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12:33<Samu>erm, i'll ask this some other way
12:34<Samu>if i know beforehand that selected_slot is OWNER_DEITY, which one is better correct? IsEditable(this->selected_slot) or IsEditable((CompanyID)selected_slot)
12:34<Samu>or there is no difference?
12:34<V453000>nice, now musa broke completely
12:35<frosch123>since when can you run ".py" files on win?
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12:35<V453000>I have python installed so it should?
12:36<V453000>I run python files at work as well on windoze
12:36<Samu>halp, someone
12:36<frosch123>wouldn't you need to run "c:\xxx\python.exe -c ..."
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12:36<V453000>this folder of musa absolutely did work earlier
12:36<V453000>I just copied the folder, replaced the grf, readme and changelog
12:36<V453000>and it doesn't
12:36<frosch123>well, the error is about not even detecting the "-c"
12:36<V453000>I guess
12:37<frosch123>maybe it's no proper "-", but a ­"—" :p
12:37<V453000>I didn't change it, it worked before
12:44<Wolf01>I remember some weird behavior with python when we were trying tools for css compression/minification/obfuscation
12:45<V453000>idk I will just wire up my desktop and try it there
12:45<V453000>I can't be arsed spending an evening with some technical bullshit just to upload a grf
12:50<Samu>I just dissected that bool code line:
12:50<Samu>now how to simplify
12:52<@Alberth>usually, assign a part of the condition onto a boolean variable, and use that variable in computing the final answer
12:52<@Alberth>where you generally avoid computing the same condition more than once
12:52<Wolf01>V453000 iirc our errors are due to the different python versions installed, 2.0.x vs 2.2.x vs 2.3.x ... vs 3.x
12:53<@Alberth>2.3 :O
12:53<Samu>oops ValidAiID is not correct, brb
12:54<Wolf01>we had some script which needed to run with 2.2.3, some others with ~2.5 others >2.6
12:54<Wolf01>and it was really a mess
12:56<Wolf01>oh, the sun, nice... too bad it is going to sleep now
12:57<Samu>oki, will try
13:00<V453000>well I had python 2.7
13:01<V453000>which I also have on teh desktop
13:01<V453000>desktop also has some weird python35-32
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13:02<@Alberth>python 3.5, 32 bit?
13:02<@Alberth>newer nmls require python 3
13:06<V453000>nice I apparently reinstalled windows on the desktop since I last used musa as well
13:06<V453000>at least this is win7
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13:10<andythenorth>V453000: you need some web service that will run musa for you :P
13:10<andythenorth>and a tool to upload your grf to that :P
13:11<V453000>anything that "just works"
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13:15<V453000>uploading :D
13:15<V453000>for some weird reason here it works
13:15<V453000>might juts require python35
13:15<V453000>forum post says 2.6+ though
13:20<Samu>it can't get any smaller than this if (_game_mode == GM_NORMAL && this->selected_slot != INVALID_COMPANY && IsEditable(this->selected_slot) && (this->selected_slot == OWNER_DEITY) || (Company::IsValidAiID(selected_slot) && Company::Get(selected_slot)->ai_instance->IsDead()))
13:21<Samu>oops typo at the last check
13:23<V453000>progress! :D
13:23<V453000>another error
13:23<V453000>oh a wild TrueBrain appeared :)
13:24<Samu>more bools?
13:24<V453000>Samu: is anybody in this channel even communicating with you?
13:25<V453000>sorry but, wall of text whenever I join
13:25<@Alberth>well, you seem obsessed with having one huuuuuge statement
13:25<V453000>did bananas just crash?
13:27<@Alberth>it's exactly 107MB
13:28<@Alberth>hmm, 544768 bytes off
13:28<Samu>i'm trying to make some bools, but ... hmm
13:29<V453000>no when I try it again, it doesn't even progress after confirming that I am one of the authors
13:29<Samu>either the bool is big, or the if is big
13:29<Samu>no matter what, something big will stand
13:29<@Alberth>you can make more than one boolean :p
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13:36<V453000>shit's borked
13:36<V453000>I guess I can only try tomorrow
13:37<V453000>for 10 minutes already actually ... now I restarted it
13:45<frosch123>TrueBrain: did V crash musad? :p
13:51<Samu>what a great mess of bools
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13:51<V453000>something certainly seems very wrong with musa
13:51<V453000>and this time it looks like it isnt on my side XD
13:53<Samu>what's the difference between this->selected_slot and selected_slot ?
13:53<TrueBrain>6 letters
13:53<TrueBrain>frosch123: make him stop doing it!
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13:53<V453000>TrueBrain: I have just let musa run :D
13:53<V453000>not doing anything until poked
13:54<Samu>if i can remove this-> i can spare 6 characters
13:54<TrueBrain>member_descriptor object is not callable
13:54<TrueBrain>my last error
13:54<TrueBrain>but someone forgot to add timestamps
13:54<TrueBrain>so meh
13:55<TrueBrain>in SSLSocket
13:55<TrueBrain>no SSL validation errors too
13:55<TrueBrain>V453000: all I can see you are not talking SSL with musad ... for one reason or the other
13:56<frosch123>TrueBrain: <- that is dated to about 19:35 or so
13:56<TrueBrain>frosch123: best to ask Rb for details; I can only see musad is up and running
13:56<TrueBrain>and I have a small error log, with no timestamps
13:57<TrueBrain>there I can see SSL connections fails a few times, some person tried to upload the same content 3 times in a row, and that is about it :D
13:57<V453000>who could have it been :D
13:57<frosch123>maybey some out-dated ssl version, that has been proven insecure, and is rejected by the server
13:58<frosch123>but V's substandard OS still runs it?
13:58<TrueBrain>I do still see 2 active connections to musad
14:00<V453000>that might be the 2 attempts where my musa didn't progress after I confirmed that I am one of the original authors
14:00<V453000>closed it now
14:00<TrueBrain>guess you are not that IP :P
14:00<TrueBrain>as those 2 connections are still open, and very recent
14:01<V453000>k XD
14:01<TrueBrain>I am sorry, I am not of much help any further .. musad is up and running, and not producing backtraces I can work with
14:01<TrueBrain>only errors are duplicated md5s, and SSL errors
14:01<V453000>sooo I should terrorize Rubidium? :D
14:02<TrueBrain>duplicated MD5s are user-problems, SSL Errors .. no clue where to start :D
14:02<TrueBrain>frosch123: it is more likely the server is outdated tbh
14:02<TrueBrain>possibly the certificate expired? I dont know if that is validated
14:03<frosch123>did it print an md5 at least? :p
14:03<TrueBrain>the errorlogging is seriously very poor
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14:05<Samu>OnInvalidateData is becoming a serious pile of bools :(
14:17<@Alberth>organize by slot number?
14:18<@Alberth>inserting newlines may also work
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14:29<Samu>what are newlines
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14:57<Samu>less bools, or just scattered
14:57<Samu>wondering if it still works
14:59<@Alberth>just get much better no matter what you do, I think
15:00<@Alberth>*doesn't get much better
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15:12<V453000>Musa seems sad :(
15:12<V453000>Hopefull it works tomorrow
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16:05<Samu>I think I can get rid of IsEditable
16:10-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:24<Samu>I also think I can get rid of (CompanyID)
16:25<Samu>nope, cannot
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16:27<Samu>can't simplify this any further !IsEditable((CompanyID)(this->selected_slot - 1))
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16:43<Samu>can't get any better than this
16:44<Samu>can't remove any more code
16:44<Samu>I hope the order of bool checking is from left to right
16:44<Samu>and not random
16:45<Samu>else this code will fail
16:47<Samu>this || that || maybe_that || or_that - does is makes the checking from left to right?
16:47<Samu>does it*
16:49<Samu>if "this" is false, check "that", if "that" fails, check "maybe_that", and if "maybe_that" fails, check "or_that"
16:49<Samu>anyone knows?
16:51<Samu>if there's a IsEditable in "maybe_that" and it fails, I am working with the assumption of the opposite for "or_that", so I won't have to have an IsEditable in "or_that" - is my thinking correct?
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17:51<Samu>is this good british english? The AIs that are currently loaded or that will be loaded next time they start on these Company IDs
17:51<Samu>it's for a tooltip
17:52<Samu>and another, british english: The Game Script that is loaded or will be loaded in the next game
17:56<Samu>"The AIs that are currently loaded or will be loaded next time they start on these Company IDs while in a game"
17:57<Samu>bah, my english :/
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18:46*drac_boy throws a water balloon at flygon simply because winter's almost gone now finally? :P
18:46<drac_boy>hehe... :)
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18:54<drac_boy>hows supermop?
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19:20<Eddi|zuHause>winter is coming.
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>it also snowed today.
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19:25<drac_boy>so whats you up to atm?
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19:30<Eddi|zuHause>finding out why my system randomly freezes so often lately. like in the order of once per day
19:35<drac_boy>hm, not much fun there I imagine :-s
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19:49<Samu>topic edited.
19:50<Samu>now i'm off to bed, cyas good night
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 25 00:00:43 2016