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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-04-30

---Logopened Sat Apr 30 00:00:50 2016
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04:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27552 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-04-30 10:28:40 +0200 )
04:28<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Mexican Spanish (Absay)
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05:48<Samu>there is an issue related with the translation of strings
05:48<Samu>makes it harder for translations
05:48<Samu>I have to give an example, it's not easy to explain
05:49<Samu>The tittle for the AI/Game Script window
05:50<Samu>this tittle is either "Available AIs" or "Available Game Scripts"
05:50<Samu>but the way the title is constructed
05:50<Samu>makes it confusing for translators
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05:52<Samu>"Available {STRING}", then 2 other strings that completes it: "AIs" or "Game Scripts"
05:52<Samu>Wouldn't it be better to have 2 full strings?
05:55<Samu>When this is translated to Portuguese, the translator didn't take into account how this is constructed, and translated it separately. When the 2 strings merge, the reading makes no sense
05:59<Samu>"Available {STRING}" = "Disponível {STRING}"
06:00<Samu>"AIs" = "IAs" / "Game Scripts" = "Scripts de Jogo"
06:00<Samu>"Disponível IAs" - makes little sense
06:00<Samu>"Disponível Scripts de Jogo" - makes little sense
06:01<Samu>it should have been "IAs disponíveis" and "Scripts the Jogo disponíveis"
06:04<Samu>just checked brazillian portuguese, it's also making little sense
06:05<Samu>same kind of problem, due to how the title is constructed
06:06<Samu>"Disponíveis Scripts do Jogo" - makes slightly more sense than "Disponível Scripts de Jogo", but it's still wrong
06:09<Samu>the word disponíveis must be at the end of the title, the string would have to be constructed like "{STRING} Available" for the translator
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06:46<Samu>uhmm, what are these errors Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Warning STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION: Param idx #0 '<empty>' doesn't match with template command 'STRING' (warning) langs D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\lang\arabic_egypt.txt 3471
06:46<Samu>for every language but english
06:48<Samu>I am changing "AI/Game Script Configuration" to "AI/Game Script {STRING}" with 2 more strings to complete that one, "Configuration" and "Settings"
06:49<Samu>how would I fix this for the other languages?
07:05<Samu>i hate strings
07:05<Samu>the world should have just 1 language, things would be so much easier
07:10<frosch123>learn esperanto then
07:10<Samu>why are the other languages complaining?
07:11<Samu>except english?
07:12<Ketsuban>Esperanto is a terrible candidate for a world language. Lojban is better, but has the disadvantage of being spoken only by the kind of people who'd learn Lojban.
07:12<Flygon>Everyone should learn Wiradjuri
07:12<Flygon>IT HAS THE DJ SOUND
07:12<Samu> :(
07:13<Flygon>Everyone should learn Pitjantjatjara
07:13<Samu>i edited english.txt, isn't this the master language?
07:13<Flygon>It has a perfectly consistant spelling system!
07:13<Flygon>And fits inside ASCII
07:13<Samu>the others are getting errors
07:15<Samu>Warning STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION: Param idx #0 '<empty>' doesn't match with template command 'STRING' (warning) langs
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07:17<Samu>how do i fix the other languages without editing them 1 by 1
07:25<Wolf01>by regenerating them
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07:29<Samu>they are missing the {STRING} part
07:29<Samu>is this a parameter?
07:33<Samu>here's what I've done to english
07:33<Samu>the other languages (I picked english_US), does that
07:34<Samu>it complains about the {STRING} that I added
07:34<Wolf01>bah, I've done all wrong, working with async changes how all the code works, the UI shouldn't await the entire list, the UI should pass the list to the function which fills it with time and the UI should await the function... now it might be fun to rewrite all the code
07:35<Wolf01>samu, run the fucking strgen
07:35<Samu>i did it :
07:35<Samu>it complains
07:40<frosch123>just run "sed -i '/STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION/ D' src/lang/*.txt"
07:40<frosch123>if that command does not exist on your system, then get a better one
07:41<Wolf01>mmmh, how the fuck do I order items without having all the items?
07:43<Wolf01>I could run parallel tasks to get all the items in less time, but still I have to wait for everything
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07:45<Wolf01>I don't know what could happen with items popping out in the middle of the list, the UI might explode
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08:18<Wolf01>it's nice how a for explodes inside an async function
08:20<Wolf01>for (int i = 0; i < n; i++) -> n = 5, I find i = 5 (out of range exception)
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08:47*Wolf01 must to something else
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09:18<Leanden_>Sprite Offsets doing my head in
09:19<Leanden_>the sprite aligner numbers don't tie up at all with the NML offset figures
09:19<Leanden_>can someone help me?
09:20<Leanden_>Even the bounding blocks arent really useful as the default openttd wagons dont sit properly inside their bounding boxes
09:23<V453000>they are values for x4 zoom
09:23<V453000>just divide by 4
09:24<Leanden_>so move by the relevant number in the sprite aligner and divide the absolute offset by 4 to get the actual result?
09:25<Leanden_>(i.e. the Absolute Offset/4 is what i should put into the NML code?)
09:25<V453000>the absolute offset is quite pointless I think
09:25<V453000>you need to worry about the relative one
09:25<V453000>and then substract/add that from your code
09:25<V453000>that's what I always did
09:25<Leanden_>ok so relative/4 added to whatever my NML says?
09:25<Leanden_>cool thanks
09:26<Leanden_>that helps :)
09:26<V453000>I am not sure if the current thing actually gives proper absolute values, but the relative always does
09:26<Leanden_>Im trying to code this BRTrains set
09:26<Leanden_>but had to go right back to the beginning because i was writing without testing and its all messed up lol
09:26<Leanden_>progress :D
09:27<Leanden_>is there an NML snippet which disables all default trains and wagons?
09:27<V453000>hm :) good luck
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09:33<drac_boy>got an interesting 'problem' here .. one book is 128 pages about crocodiles in general (sbb/db/etc) while another book is 110 pages that goes quite deep into just the swiss crocodile alone and its quite more expensive
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09:35<drac_boy>if you want know these are the two of them:$_35.JPG vs
09:35<drac_boy>hi isla :)
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09:40<Islacrusez>Ayo Alberth
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09:41<@Alberth>hi hi
09:50<drac_boy>hi wolf01 .. want me bore you? :P
09:53<Wolf01>I'm already bored, building-new-outpost-bored
09:54*drac_boy pokes wolf01 with a 850mm diameter driver axle then
09:55<andythenorth>Lego isn’t usually dimensioned in mm
09:55<andythenorth>except for tube
09:55<andythenorth>and maybe string
09:55<andythenorth>the standard unit is studs
09:56<Wolf01>meh... wrong place for accumulators, there should be a station instead
09:57*drac_boy throws something 1 stud and 10 studs long at andy :)
09:58<Wolf01>wrong place for forest, there should be accumulators farm instead
10:00<Islacrusez>so what's ottd development like these days; any significant changes in the past few years?
10:00*Islacrusez is out of the loop
10:00<Wolf01>ottd development these days resembles more factorio playing
10:00*Islacrusez chuckles
10:01<Islacrusez>don't blame you, that game is perfect on so many levels
10:07<Samu>i installed sed, already ruined everything
10:07<Samu>uninstalled it
10:07<Samu>now fixing what i broke
10:07*drac_boy is going stick to ttdxp+simutrans for now partially due to installers
10:07<drac_boy>samu .. heh? :-s
10:07<Samu>i broke the language files
10:10<@planetmaker>Samu, if your fixing what you broke with sed is much more difficult than running something like "hg revert src/lang/*" then you should consider to change how you work on the files :)
10:11<Wolf01>btw, I should prepare myself, AFOL dinner this evening ;)
10:12<Samu>i reverted but it is also reverting some vcxproj files for lang?
10:12<Samu>i did not edit that
10:13<Samu>something about spanish_MX.lng
10:14<Leanden_>Well this is a nice milestone
10:15<Samu>... that's it... deleting entire trunk
10:15<Leanden_>I have just successfully coded my first ever train in NML :D
10:15<Leanden_>and its properly aligned :)
10:16<Samu>re-downloading entire trunk again
10:16<Samu>should fix my problems
10:17<Samu>while getting rid of my code as well, bah... dont care, as long as it fixes it
10:19<andythenorth>iz forums today?
10:20<@Alberth>not much
10:21<@Alberth>people stopped sleeping in tents on a slope, in australia, mostly
10:21<Samu>no longer complaining about spanish_MX
10:21<andythenorth>maybe I should play the game
10:22<@Alberth>I tried that yesterday with mostly vanilla, but tropical is too boring
10:22<andythenorth>the economy, the vehicles, or the landscape?
10:23<@Alberth>the climate, in particular the industry chains
10:23<@Alberth>perhaps I should concentrate on pax there
10:23<drac_boy>going off for now here
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10:23<@Alberth>all these towns needing food & water
10:24<Samu>oh, so it seems I was working with an old lang version without spanish_MX
10:24<Samu>wasn't this the language just added?
10:24<Samu>oki, mystery solved
10:25<andythenorth>I never liked micro-managing the lumber mill :)
10:26<Samu>reverting now reverts correctly
10:26<Samu>problem solved
10:26<@Alberth>it probably reverted correctly before too, except in a way you didn't expect?
10:28<frosch123>Leanden_: V453000: the absolute values in the sprite aligner are affected by the transparency-cropping when compiling the nml file. that is, if your sprites have transparency along some border, the absolue offsets will differ
10:32<Samu>it was creating a patch and the patch was adding changes to many lang vcx files
10:32<Samu>v80 v90 v120 etc
10:32<Samu>and i remember not touching that
10:32<Wolf01> neat
10:32<Samu>then i wanted to revert, and it was touching them again
10:33<Samu>at least now the trunk is 100% equal
10:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27553 /trunk/projects (6 files) (2016-04-30 16:33:36 +0200 )
10:33<@DorpsGek>-Update: Project files
10:34<Samu>or not...
10:34<Samu>brilliant timing
10:35<V453000>frosch123: they do, pretty much always :D
10:38<Islacrusez>Wolf01, that's pretty awesome
10:43*andythenorth doesn’t get excited by that kind of lego build :)
10:44<Leanden>can someone help me quickly
10:44<Leanden>ive managed to code a refit for a train in my BRTrains set
10:44<andythenorth>what kind of refit? :)
10:44<Leanden>but the artist has cleverly used 2CC colours, how can i disable the 2CC recolouring?
10:44<andythenorth>livery refit?
10:45<Islacrusez>andythenorth, do you get excited by the guy who did HMS Hood with SNOTwork lego in minifig scale?
10:45<Leanden>yep livery refit
10:45<Leanden>goods -> goods
10:45<Leanden>but the capacity is 0
10:45<andythenorth>oh that kind of livery refit
10:45<Leanden>the refit works fine but the livery recolours to CC
10:46<andythenorth>got photoshop or similr?
10:46<andythenorth>similar *
10:46<Leanden>i assume there is a callback
10:46<andythenorth>I’d just repaint it
10:46<Leanden>i have GIMP
10:46<Islacrusez>what sort of lego work does excite you then? xD
10:46<andythenorth>I’d just global replace the 2CC
10:46<andythenorth>you can do it in code, but meh
10:46<andythenorth>why add string?
10:46<Leanden>id prefer code
10:46<Leanden>instead of faffing with changing pixels :P
10:47<@Alberth>write a program to faf pixels :p
10:48<andythenorth>you might be able to just ignore it in action 0
10:48<V453000>just recolour code
10:48<andythenorth>can’t remember, but I think there is a flag to enable 2CC for some vehicle types,
10:48*andythenorth could look in the docs for you
10:49<V453000>ie recolour_sprite { //CCblue 0xC6: 0x92; 0xC7: 0x93; 0xC8: 0x94; 0xC9: 0x95; 0xCA: 0x96; 0xCB: 0x97; 0xCC: 0x98; 0xCD: 0x99; } //CCblue
10:49<andythenorth>V453000: very naughty :P
10:49<V453000>cc1 ti blue
10:49<andythenorth>recolour sprites are evils
10:49<V453000>are nice
10:50<frosch123>Leanden: remove TRAIN_FLAG_2CC ?
10:51<V453000>not for subrefits I guess
10:54<Leanden>i dont have TRAIN_FLAG_2CC in there hmm
10:54<Leanden>oh that looks good V45
10:54<Leanden>can you do one for Green too? :D
10:55<Leanden>wait recolour sprite
10:56<Leanden>where does that variable/callback go?
10:56<Leanden>in the spriteset?
10:56<frosch123>you only need "recolour_sprite" for new colours
10:57<frosch123>not for normal cc
10:57<Leanden>i am so confused lol
10:57<Leanden>i just want a line of code to change CC blue to Blue
10:57<Leanden>and CC green to green :P
10:58<frosch123>so, you do not want cc at all?
10:58<frosch123>i have no idea what you want :p
10:58<Leanden>i want to completely disable CC for all my trains :P
10:58<V453000>Leanden: just pu there the right colour numbers :P
10:58<frosch123>you said artist uses 2cc, but you did not enable 2cc
10:58<Leanden>the artist designed the sprite in 2CC, but i want to use the CC as just a normal green
10:59<frosch123>Leanden: ok, then just add "colour_mapping: return PALETTE_CC_FIRST;" to your graphics block
10:59<frosch123>that will disable all cc, 1cc and 2cc
10:59<Leanden>that worked a treat
11:00<Leanden>thanks very much
11:00<Leanden>BRTrains set is go!
11:00<Leanden>Thanks Frosch
11:07<andythenorth>Leanden: what scale is it roughly? UKRS or UKRS 2?
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11:21*andythenorth ponders 1 tile locks some more
11:22<andythenorth>locks can have custom graphics? o_O
11:22<andythenorth>L760 or so in water_cmd.cpp
11:22<andythenorth>in fact all of DrawWaterLock()
11:23<andythenorth>well that’s a pisser :)
11:23<andythenorth>no 1 tile locks then
11:23<andythenorth>‘newgrf cannot be broken’ :P
11:24*andythenorth reverts everything
11:41<Samu>i just posted new version
11:42<Samu>now i wanna get rid of the vertical scrollbar :|
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11:55<Samu>want to remove vertical scrollbar, then enumerate the slots
11:55<Samu>and then... drag and drop
11:55<Samu>which i assume is the most complicated one
12:12<_dp_>hi, can openttd to reverse pathfinding? eg find closest depot from which current station is reachable.
12:14<Samu>just found another bug :(
12:14<Samu>it's also present in 1.6.0
12:15<Samu>click License from an AI, then select another AI and chose Random AI
12:16<Samu>Random AI doesn't have a license
12:17<Samu>also happens for the (none) GS
12:21<Samu>changelog of Random AI
12:21<Samu>hmm, I see the pattern
12:23<Samu>void ChangeAI() - this thing will have to close every possible window that can leak information from the old AI to the new
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12:54<Samu>can crash with readme, license and changelog
12:55<Samu>and configure
12:55<Samu>both AI and GS slots
13:04<Samu>I guess i could post a patch for flyspray
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13:54<Samu>uhm... i rather not
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14:15<Samu>teach me how to remove a scrollbar
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: you can run the pathfinder from each depot
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>but it's not very efficient, probably
14:18<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, yeah, but I hoped there was some better way)
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>the pathfinder algorithm is not really made for something like "get me the shortest path to station involving a depot"
14:20<@Rubidium>make some sort of reverse pathfinder where it interprets signals as being reversed and then find the closest depot?
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>just build your depots so all stations are reachable...
14:22<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, that's completely different problem
14:23<_dp_>generally speaking it's not that hard to reverse pathfind in graph
14:23<_dp_>but now that you mentioned signals... this is't exactly a graph I guess
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>sure, it's just a directed graph
14:24*andythenorth pissing about trying to draw an irone ore mine
14:24<andythenorth>maybe I should just use the one from V453000
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>an ironic ore mine?
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14:25<Eddi|zuHause>produces irony and thrives on sarcasm as feedback?
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14:25<andythenorth>nice idea
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>this must be what V453000 thinks when he makes an industry chain :p
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14:27*V453000 is making new stockyard
14:27<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, not quite, it changes as train goes on it
14:27<V453000>t give a shit
14:28<_dp_>but for what I want I can ignore that, only direction matters
14:28<_dp_>but I guess I'll settle for looping over deport, should work fast enough
14:29<_dp_>don't want to write own pathfinder if there is no reverse already
14:29<V453000>andythenorth: if you can convert it to 8bpp nicely, feel free to use anything from me, but .. :) idk if it would fit, probably not
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14:31<andythenorth>probably not :)
14:31<andythenorth>avoids me doing it :P
14:32<andythenorth>ore mines
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15:09<Samu>:) just successfully removed vertical scrollbar and maintained clicking
15:09<Samu>can select!
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15:10<Samu>this->selected_slot = (CompanyID)this->GetRowFromWidget(pt.y, widget, 0, this->line_height);
15:13<Samu>now, what next
15:13<Samu>drag & drop slots
15:13<Samu>is it easy to do? drag & drop?
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15:31<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: but a train on it doesn't change the topology of the graph, only the edge weights (except maybe for firstred_twoway_eol)
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>and the pathfinder has a mode which irgnores train positions
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16:09<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, it does change, even without signals. just make a small loop, train can't go through it
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean?
16:10<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, or, rather, they can, but only because they can't crash into themselvel
16:10<andythenorth>iron catz
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: i don't see the relevance
16:11<drac_boy>just curious about it but how often any of you heard of using one single traction motor (sandwiched inbetween or so) to power both adjacent axles with? (kinda like a B'B with only two motors)
16:11<drac_boy>I mean I know some high power locomotives had two motors per axle...but I'm curious about the other way around
16:12<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, that's example of train changing topology, it couldn't go there because it has non-zero length
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>sure, B'B' was a thing (4 individual motors would be Bo'Bo')
16:13*andythenorth wonders how to represent traction motors in TTD scale
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: i don't think you understand what i mean with topology
16:13<andythenorth>I imagine the rating for continous tractive effort might be lower
16:13<andythenorth>continuous *
16:14<drac_boy>andy, don't bother. it'll be like 1/10th of a pixel :P
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i don't think it matters much stat-wise
16:15<andythenorth>NO IT’S VERY IMPORTANT
16:15*andythenorth back to drawing
16:16<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, regardless of what you mean, graph is a well-defined thing; neither pathfinding for trains is same as general graph pathfinding nor track network with signals is a graph, strictly speaking
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: but it still IS a graph. it may be a different graph for each individual pathfinder run, but it's still a graph
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16:18<drac_boy>graph path...reminds me of Train Dispatcher if you ask me :)
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16:24<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, you can make some graph, but pathfinding on will not be 100% correct (and it's not in openttd)
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16:29<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, for any sensible graph you can do that's probably a fine path, but train can never go there
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16:50<drac_boy>think going for now as usual
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18:47<Samu>hmm is there a guide for drawing strings?
18:48<Samu>i need to composite a line with 3 Drawstrings
18:48<Samu>quite the task
18:49<Samu>draw 3 things in 1 line
18:49<Samu>text + more text + optional text
18:50<Samu>text = company # - # ranges from 1 to 15
18:50<Samu>more text = name of AI script
18:51<Samu>optional text = tell if it's Random AI, or just don't say anything
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18:51<Leanden>anyone know anything about repositories and hg? :D
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19:54<Sylf>Leanden, what about it?
19:56<Samu>no more time for today, couldn't draw strings
19:57<Samu>cyas, goodnight
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---Logclosed Sun May 01 00:00:52 2016