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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-05-01

---Logopened Sun May 01 00:00:52 2016
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02:39<andythenorth>o/
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03:51<Leanden>Hi all
03:51<Leanden>any hg experts here
03:51<Leanden>ive fucked up :P
03:53<andythenorth>what happened?
03:53<andythenorth>or what’s the problem?
03:53<Leanden>i accidentally commited my binary to the repository
03:53<Leanden>and now i cant push :)
03:54<andythenorth>was it the last commit?
03:54<Leanden>the first
03:55<andythenorth>hmm dunno
03:55<andythenorth>what’s the message on push?
03:55<Leanden>i think i may have actually fixed it
03:55<Leanden>1 sec ill get it up
03:55<Leanden>ahh balls
03:55<Leanden>i fixed it and created a new error lol
03:56<Leanden>remote: File "Makefile.local" may not be added to the repository.transaction abort!
03:57<andythenorth>have you got a .hgignore?
03:57<Leanden>yes
03:57<Leanden>i add the files to that?
03:57<andythenorth>I am not the best advisor on hg
03:58<andythenorth>make a copy your whole project directory locallly in case of accidents
03:58<Leanden>oh i already did ;D
03:58<andythenorth>my .hgignore looks like https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pubtbpno1/7ohbso/raw
03:58<andythenorth>I would pick one of these two solutions
03:58<andythenorth>(1) read the hg manual
03:59<andythenorth>(2) wait for somebody here who can help you better :)
03:59<Leanden>no your hgignore is perfect
03:59<Leanden>thanks
03:59<andythenorth>it might not solve the problem
03:59<Leanden>oh there isnt a hgignore -.-
04:00<andythenorth>you have the file added to a commit, and the repo might simply never accept that without deleting the commit from your local hg
04:00<andythenorth>deleting commits in hg scares me a lot tbh
04:00<andythenorth>usually when there is a problem with hg, I just delete everything and start again
04:01<andythenorth>that’s kind of silly and not the point of VCS :P
04:02<Leanden>trying my push again
04:06<Leanden> /sigh it didnt work
04:06<Leanden>i think i will just start the repository from scratch
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04:10<Leanden>it worked
04:10<Leanden>i think
04:11<Leanden>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/brtrains/repository
04:11<Leanden>yep :)
04:16<Leanden>so now that the repo is up on the dev page
04:16<Leanden>will it automatically compile nightly?
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04:54<Leanden>@log
04:55<Leanden>I missed the answer, will my repo automatically compile nightlies?
04:56<blathijs>Leanden: Nobody answered yet :-)
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05:06<Wolf01>o/
05:13<Wolf01>lol, andy, as I expected yesterday evening I've seen very large sets shifting from one car trunk to another
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05:17<Samu>what happens when "keep all autosave = true" with "max_num_autosave = true"?
05:17<Samu>oops 16
05:17<Samu>"keep all autosave = true" with "max_num_autosave = 16"?
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05:50<Samu>okay this time i'm testing 8 AI's solo
05:50<Samu>keep all autosaves
05:50<Samu>monthly, for hopefully 100 years
05:50<Samu>1950-2051
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05:57<andythenorth>Wolf01: are you involved in some kind of smuggling operation? o_O
05:57<Wolf01>nah
05:58<Wolf01>just fans purchasing bulks to get a discount
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06:28<argoneus>good morning train friend
06:28<argoneus>s
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06:38<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7798/IronMine2_03.png
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06:53<V453000>\o/ andythenorth actually doing stuff?
06:53<V453000>I miss a surface-mining hole in the ground for iron ore mine andythenorth
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06:54<andythenorth>I don’t see how to make a mine look good
06:55<andythenorth>the YETI solution works, but FIRS is more realisms
06:55<V453000>I was pointing more towards the original iron ore mine
06:55<V453000>but I understand you want modularity
06:56<V453000>perhaps 3x3 hole, with modularity around?
06:56<andythenorth>I think it will look small and lame?
06:56<V453000>depends how you draw it :) 4x4 certainly looks good, you could even do that
06:56<andythenorth>quarry is 3x5
06:56<V453000>the industry wouldnt mind being x5 yeah
06:57<andythenorth>can’t someone just make newobjects for the hole?
06:57<andythenorth>I don’t care for it :P
06:57<V453000>:(
06:57<V453000>but quarry has a hole
06:58<V453000>just edit it, remove water, eazy
06:58<andythenorth>maybe
06:59<andythenorth>I could use this layout just for Manganese mine
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07:00<andythenorth>I was going to use same sprites for Manganese and Iron Ore mines
07:01<andythenorth>seems Iron Ore should be open pit, really
07:02<andythenorth>Leanden: you’d be wise to set up a better compile and templating early
07:02<andythenorth>otherwise you’ll be chasing your tail later
07:02*andythenorth has been there, done that
07:04<andythenorth>V453000: YETI iron mine is 3x3?
07:04*andythenorth checks in game
07:07<V453000>4x4
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07:08<andythenorth>iz nice
07:08<andythenorth>I can’t really use the blocks in FIRS
07:08<andythenorth>good approach though
07:08<V453000>yeah
07:08<V453000>is why I say try smaller block
07:09<V453000>perhaps 2x4 or something might work as well
07:10<andythenorth>meh
07:10<andythenorth>8x9 would be nice
07:11<andythenorth>that’s what happens if I paste YETI sprite onto screenie of landscape
07:11<V453000>XD
07:11<andythenorth>can’t ever build the fucker though
07:13<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7799/yeti_iron_mine.png
07:13<V453000>wtf :D
07:13<V453000>also, logically 8x8 :P
07:14<V453000>I'm also not going to investigate how did you achieve the white background/edges
07:14<andythenorth>paste, magic wand
07:14<andythenorth>didn’t bother doing it carefully
07:15<andythenorth>V453000 do you have a version without blocks? o_O
07:15<V453000>just made some great technical tests for conveyor belts in blender
07:15<V453000>serioze shit coming
07:15<V453000>nope
07:15<andythenorth>balls
07:15*andythenorth doesn’t want to draw a pit in pixels from scratch
07:15<andythenorth>super ball ache
07:16<V453000>kind of fun actually
07:16<V453000>I would like to do that but time
07:16<andythenorth>me too
07:16<andythenorth>time is the problem
07:17<andythenorth>it will take weeks to draw a pit, at 1hr per day max spare time
07:17<andythenorth>also 8x8 is completely never going to get built by the game
07:17<andythenorth>total waste of time :D
07:18<V453000>2 hours max imo
07:18<V453000>no need for 8x8
07:18<V453000>2x4 ish is enough
07:18*andythenorth experimenting
07:18<andythenorth>depends if chibi works or not
07:18<andythenorth>might look weak
07:21<andythenorth>V453000: this is lying around, unused :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7800/Bauxite_mine1.png
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07:27<V453000>might be a good start :P
07:47<andythenorth>meh
07:48<andythenorth>I never liked any of the original baseset mines either
07:48*andythenorth can’t get enthused about big one-piece sprites
07:50<frosch123>don't do surface mining then :)
07:50<andythenorth>V453000 says I have to :)
07:51<frosch123>you can draw various "towers" for deep mining
07:51<frosch123>freight elevators and such
07:51<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7799/yeti_iron_mine.png
07:51<andythenorth>oops wrong paste
07:51<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7798/IronMine2_03.png
07:51<andythenorth>better
07:52<frosch123>the train is fine, but don't make it run horizontally
07:53<frosch123>something like a tunnel entry
07:53<frosch123>you can also have multiple of them
07:53<frosch123>not just one
07:53<andythenorth>I considered having it ascend a slope
07:53<andythenorth>in standard TTD fashion :P
07:53<frosch123>yeah, and make doom shine from the depths of the tunnel
07:53<frosch123>maybe V also likes it then :p
07:54<andythenorth>it’s more of a winding tower thing
07:54<andythenorth>I tried tunnels, bit lame
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07:56<frosch123>altenatively you could make them build at a hill slope
07:56<frosch123>though iirc you didn't like sloped industries
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07:57<frosch123>andythenorth: http://www.miningartifacts.org/Minnesota-MInes.html <- see the "chisholm, mn 1900"
07:57<andythenorth>saving that for copper mine :)
07:57<andythenorth>(hill slope)
07:57<frosch123>it does not need to be a vertical elevator
07:57<andythenorth>so many mines that need to be different :P
07:57<andythenorth>nearly as bad as farms
07:57<frosch123>sloped elevators are nicer
07:58<andythenorth>lots of neat mines there
07:58<andythenorth>this was inspiration so far http://www.mg.mtu.edu/MINE_SHAFTS/pabsth.jpg
07:59<frosch123>your mines lack stuff to pump air underground
07:59<frosch123>and return smoke from underground engines
08:01<andythenorth>there are some vents in the one I pasted
08:01<andythenorth>I had some chimneys and pipes, but I thought it looked to much like a secondary industry :)
08:01*andythenorth favours more chimneys and pipes
08:03<frosch123>you can also make a water mine
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08:03<frosch123>with a horizontal tunnel into the hill, which is traveled by ships
08:05<frosch123>though it is kind of a creative interpretation of drainage tunnels
08:05<andythenorth>ha
08:07<andythenorth>so I should change the winding towers?
08:07<andythenorth>they are a nasty hack atm
08:07<frosch123>i think the winding towers give the most options for variety :)
08:07<frosch123>vertical, sloped, horizontal
08:08<andythenorth>in the sprites I posted, is it obvious which towers are the winding tower?
08:08<andythenorth>there’s no wheels or anything :P
08:09<frosch123>it is kind of safe to assume that all tall buildings are winding towers
08:09<frosch123>there is no point in other tall buildings, is there?
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08:17<andythenorth>dunno :)
08:17<andythenorth>it’s all just sprites
08:19<andythenorth>bbl
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08:51<Wolf01>o/
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08:56<frosch123>Wolf01: i remembered that i use circuit networks actually for something :p
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08:56<frosch123>enable "heavy oil -> light oil" cracking if "lubricant" is full
08:57<frosch123>enable "light oil -> gas" cracknig, if "light oil > gas"
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08:57<Wolf01>I think that's the first thing to do in every game XD
08:57<frosch123>pipes do not have the two lanes as belts do
08:58<frosch123>so, i do not know a way around balancing it with circuit notwork
08:58<Islacrusez>pipes are silly
08:58<Wolf01>pumps and fluid redirection
08:59<Wolf01>yeah, I installed the mod to decide which pipes to connect instead leaving to do it automatically
08:59<Islacrusez>on the other hand if your system is fully pressurised (hard to do without tweaking the oil richness) you don't have the problem
09:01<Islacrusez>personally I wasn't happy with the oil, as with 3 patches per field and about 0.9/s base, it didn't take long to "deplete" them
09:01<Wolf01>the problem is that I need some hysteresis circuits to do this, because the fluid changes are too slow and I want at least half tank full before redirecting the fluid to another processing plant
09:02<Wolf01>oh, that's not a problem, I only have one (actually a cluster of 5) refinery and I bring there the oil from the entire map
09:02<Islacrusez>so after launching my satellite on the default settings, I upped the richness of everything by one and oil to max, and upped the size by one and oil to max, and made everything much rarer
09:03<Islacrusez>perhaps a little too rich on the oil though, 5.5/s base is a *lot*
09:03<Islacrusez>but it means I can actually run a train service to oil fields; otherwise it's damn near poinless
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09:25<^Spike^>Leanden should you push to hg.openttdcoop.org again and it fails could you highlight one of us in #openttdcoop.devzone? (we just noticed something wierd about your repo that we hopefully fixed :))
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10:20<@Alberth>Leanden: you can easily make a batch file to run the gcc step, and then the nml step
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11:09<@Alberth>o/
11:11<andythenorth>o/
11:14<@peter1138>bah
11:16<andythenorth>yup
11:16<andythenorth>I think I have a patch for ‘bah'
11:17<@peter1138>should i go with shimano ultegra (but with rim brakes) or lower-end sram kit (but with disc brakes)?
11:18<Wolf01>weather?
11:19<andythenorth>type of bike?
11:22<@peter1138>summer road bike
11:22<@peter1138>but i'm, er, large, so good stopping power is useful
11:22<andythenorth>do you mind changing the blocks on rim brakes?
11:23<@peter1138>not really but i usually get frustrated with adjusting them all the time
11:23<andythenorth>I have 2 hybrids, one has hydraulic disks, one has wire-pull rim V brakes
11:24<andythenorth>I don’t really like the handling of the disks, but they are low maintenance and don’t fade in wet
11:24<@peter1138>http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXRTD80/planet-x-rtd-80-disc-sram-rival-11-road-bike
11:24<Wolf01>one of the last times I used the catapult... ehrm the bike I the rim brakes didn't work so well because of water, and I had a bad encounter with the kerb
11:25<Wolf01>leave that rogue "I"
11:26<@peter1138>http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/bergamont-prime-ltd-road-bike-2014/rp-prod146600
11:26<@peter1138>or something like that
11:35<andythenorth>I’d probably go with the disks
11:35<andythenorth>at that price, the groupset will be at least ‘ok'
11:36<andythenorth>FWIW I have an £800 Scott commute bike that has needed servicing once in 6 years
11:37<@peter1138>that sram is basically shimano 105 level, which is one step below ultegra
11:38<@peter1138>otoh, it'll all need replacing when it wears out anyway
11:38<andythenorth>+1
11:39*andythenorth blames V453000
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12:11<Wolf01>oh finally the tractor unit of the 42043 is finished :o
12:11<Wolf01>andy, should I put the stickers?
12:12<andythenorth>never
12:12<Wolf01>+1
12:12<andythenorth>Wolf01: I use about 50% of the stickers usually
12:13<Wolf01>I put the stickers on the various model-a I decided to keep, but on model-b or mocs I never put them
12:14<Wolf01>and now the funny part: a moc of the trailer with a stewart platform on top
12:14<@peter1138>http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/timeline_of_bicycle_design.png
12:14<@peter1138>obviously i need something from there
12:14<Wolf01>:)
12:17<Wolf01>mmmh this thing is huge, I was worried about the size of the stewart platform but I think it will fit with no problems
12:19<Wolf01>the only problem is that I must redesign the entire trailer without the gearbox, maybe without the suspensions, move the stabilizers before the wheels and leaving enough space inside to fit 6 linear actuators
12:19<Wolf01>with 6 motors
12:20<Samu>hmm, because of 1 string, my entire patch size increased brutally
12:20<Samu>t.t
12:22<Samu>there's something weird with the lang generator
12:23*Islacrusez wonders what everyone's on about
12:23<Samu>it switches the order it generates spanish_MX with spanish
12:24<Samu>let me copy paste what happens
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12:26<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p0fa4wfj6
12:30<Samu>sees to be an issue of what comes first alphabetically when sorting? spanish or spanish_MX
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12:30<Samu>seems*
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12:54<Samu>patch sized 22.15 KiB becomes 78.31 KiB
12:55<Samu>just to remove 1 string from all language files
12:55<Samu>is this the correct way to handle the issue I was having?
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12:57<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqvhmf0bu?/pqvhmf0bu the issue was line 3 (master english.txt) versus line 14 (all other languages)
12:57<Samu>that {STRING} was screwing MSVC lang generator with tons of warnings
13:00<@Alberth>if you change strings in the base language, then yep, all other languages complain
13:01<@Alberth>either you fix all languages, or you remove in english, and use a different string name for the new caption
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13:06<Samu>hmm, gonna try
13:06<Samu>use a different string name for the new caption
13:07<Samu>it is also the approach I had in mind first, but then I saw the others weren't doing that
13:07<Samu>the other captions
13:13<@Alberth>normally you have only one caption
13:13<@Alberth>and don't change it
13:29<Samu>STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION - this one has to stay with that name
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13:31<Samu>yep, can't rename it, it must stay :(
13:31<Samu>tons of warnings because i renamed it, doesn't exist in master file
13:31<@Alberth>obviously, but it works
13:32<@Alberth>but otherwise, change the string in all languages
13:32<Samu>will reuse it, STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION and add a new one STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION_INGAME
13:33<Samu>yeah, no more warnings
13:42<Samu>done
13:43<Samu>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74694&p=1166603#p1166603
13:43<Samu>v13 uploaded
13:46<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7803/manganese_mine_03.png
13:46<andythenorth>needs different ground tile eh
13:47<Wolf01>half platform done... need more pieces
13:48<andythenorth>black ground? o_O https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2400/2197808503_61eaac76c8_b.jpg
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13:50<V453000>andythenorth: it needs some shape which suggests going downhill
13:50<V453000>the mining train looks like it just came from the room
13:50<V453000>very interesting photo in colours
13:50<V453000>black - yellowish - red
13:51<andythenorth>hmm
13:51<andythenorth>maybe I actually have to draw the winding wheels
13:52<andythenorth>that sounds boring
13:53<V453000>not necessarily
13:53<V453000>but making a building roof like /, with some angle
13:53<V453000>going towards the ground
13:53<V453000>very much suggests undergronud mining
13:54<V453000>original graphics do this with the animated wheels and stuff, which suggests it is pulled from below
13:54<V453000>there is no such visual connection here
13:54<V453000>I would just change the building to make it clear that it comes form below
13:55<andythenorth>yeah it would need winding wheels
13:55<andythenorth>it’s supposed to be a vertical shaft mine
13:55<andythenorth>I have at least 2 other mines to do, those will be sloping ramp exit things
13:55<V453000>ah I get what you mean
13:55<V453000>well
13:55<V453000>undeground doesn't need to mean super deep, does it?
13:56<Samu>hmm people forget their company passwords
13:56<andythenorth>winding wheels are a right fucker to draw
13:57<Samu>they set it, but then forget about it?
13:58<V453000>yeah I wouldn't do that
13:59<Samu>"Default company password"
13:59<Samu>i see some people don't yet realise what this do
14:02<_dp_>hi, is there an easy way to see language strings that came with savegame (from gs)?
14:03<Wolf01>bbl
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14:05<Samu>i have an idea, don't use a button, but a checkbox, then next to it, say "always use this password on new companies"
14:05<Samu>ppl then switch the checkbox on or off
14:05<Samu>seems clearer
14:06<andythenorth>balls
14:06<andythenorth>the lower part of my mine is ground colour
14:06<andythenorth>so it isn’t visible
14:08<andythenorth>'oops'
14:14<Samu>or maybe "automatically use this password on new companies"
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14:30<@Alberth>_dp_ only the index numbers are in the savegame, I think, but not sure. Simplest way is to get the source of the GS for that version and look at the strings? :p
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14:41<frosch123>_dp_: not sure what you want. but if you uncompress the savegame, you can find essentially the language files in the savegame
14:47<_dp_>frosch123, yy, I tried uncompressing but couldn't figure out how do to that
14:47<_dp_>frosch123, so I just added one printf))
14:48<frosch123>there is a tool for uncompressing on dev/~frosch
14:48<frosch123>it's linked from docs/desync.txt or so
15:06<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7804/manganese_mine_2_03.png
15:07<V453000>much nicer
15:08<andythenorth>wheels can be animated, done already for coal mine
15:08<andythenorth>and separate tile to train
15:08<V453000>:)
15:08<andythenorth>doesn’t look too similar? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#coal_mine
15:09<V453000>not at all
15:09<V453000>consistent, but not similar
15:10<andythenorth>winning
15:10<andythenorth>this is good enough for manganese
15:11<andythenorth>have to try an open pit for iron ore :P
15:11<andythenorth>or at least a proper drift mine
15:11<V453000>=D
15:11<V453000>me is looking forward to see it
15:12<andythenorth>depends if I can be arsed to repaint the yeti sprite
15:12<andythenorth>it’s just right to make a mine that converted from small open pit to drift :P
15:12<V453000>the yeti sprite isn't really that great tbh
15:16<andythenorth>what don’t you like about it?
15:17<V453000>puts the building too much in the corner, doesn't have any "elevated" space
15:17<V453000>just a hole
15:17<V453000>I would like more stuff around the actual hole
15:17<andythenorth>oh yeah that
15:17<andythenorth>you need some yetis mining
15:18<V453000>I do
15:18<V453000>24hrs = short day
15:18<andythenorth>you have that yellow truck thing in some industries, but you need some yeti digger
15:18<V453000>hehe
15:18<andythenorth>a chibi mining machine
15:18<andythenorth>like FIRS uses cranes *everywhere* :P
15:18<V453000>which is nice
15:19<V453000>yeti faces similar problems as nuts does
15:19<V453000>the graphics are very inconsistent
15:19<V453000>as I just make stuff I like with aim to learn to make better stuff
15:19<V453000>instead of aiming for the final product
15:19<andythenorth>[shrug]
15:19<andythenorth>you notice it, players don’t
15:20<V453000>I'm not saying it is a bad thing, nor that I will do anything about it :P
15:20<andythenorth>every set I make is inconsistent
15:20<V453000>not nearly as much
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>ECS Vectors had inconsistent graphics for over a decade... i never heard anyone complain about it
15:22<V453000>point is fair
15:22<V453000>and since they use some of the FIRS graphics, it is 10 times worse imo
15:23<andythenorth>I agree about iron mine building though
15:23<andythenorth>not fitting
15:24<Sylf>fuk
15:24<Sylf>my food processing plant doesn't produce anything
15:24<Sylf>useless
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>did you deliver something?
15:24<Sylf>yeah
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>did it arrive at the right industry, and not somewhere nearby?
15:25<Sylf>the game thinks there's no such cargo as FOOD
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds unfortunate
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>you probably have a newgrf conflict
15:25<Sylf>that is one boring world
15:26<Sylf>nah
15:26<Sylf>newgrf logic error
15:26<Sylf>I'm trying to tweak YETI
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>well, defining FOOD should be an easy task :p
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>digital progress in germany: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChXIJPbWIAAHiPv.jpg:large
15:27<Sylf>aha. cargo id conflict
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15:31<brane>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_%28software%29
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15:54<@Alberth>o/
15:55<Wolf01>o/
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16:12<supermop>yo
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18:04<Samu>is it just me or is the bakewell lucket lb-8 model turning around a bit jumpy, misaligned?
18:05<Samu>oops lb-11
18:06<Samu>looks odd when it faces south direction
18:06<Samu>the animation from SE to S or SW to S
18:07<Samu>maybe it's just me?
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---Logclosed Mon May 02 00:00:53 2016