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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-05-13

---Logopened Fri May 13 00:00:12 2016
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03:58<Flygon>Part of me does wish a cheat option was 'building towns for free' :P
03:58<Flygon>Mek: No relation to the artist?
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05:05<Wolf01> o_O
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05:15<@peter1138>Flygon, shame this game is closed source and nobody can add stuff.
05:17<Flygon>Hahaha, I know what you're getting at :P
05:17<Flygon>But I'd never ever be able to contribute
05:17<Flygon>The few times I have coded
05:17<Flygon>I created such horrendous kludge that it was almost entirely recoded
05:18<Flygon>And that's if it worked
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09:23<V453000>basecosts mod might be able to tweak town building price
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09:39<Eddi|zuHause>... or just load it in the scenario editor
09:39-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
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09:47<Xaroth|Work>o7 Alberth
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>bishop e5
09:49<@Alberth>o would be a very large chess board :p
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09:59<Eddi|zuHause>maybe they played on a go board :p
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>bigger maps!
10:01<supermop>sure there is roof for an Alberth piece in Tai Shogi
10:01<@peter1138>4096x4096 chess board?
10:05<@Alberth>play on a board ruled into a grid of 25 ranks (rows) and 25 files (columns) not really :)
10:05<@Alberth>no bishops in Go, Eddi :)
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>i never learned the actual rules of go
10:07<@Alberth>that takes only 5 minutes :)
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and then 50 years to learn the strategies :p
10:08<Xaroth|Work>faster to make an AI to do the matches for you then :P
10:08<@Alberth>go has a very nice way to balance the game between players of different strength; much better than eg chess or checkers
10:14<supermop>Alberth: are you on KGS?
10:15<supermop>always looking for new people to play with
10:15<@Alberth>no, never played go online
10:15<supermop>ah you should!
10:15<@Alberth>we could do that one time
10:15<supermop>i am about 10kyu on there at the moment
10:15<supermop>so not that strong
10:15<@Alberth>me neither :)
10:19<supermop>i never learned the rules to even regular shogi
10:20<supermop>but i do have a shogi-ban, because my first goban came with one on the back, and a set of plastic shogi pieces
10:21<@Alberth>ah, chess variant
10:25<@peter1138>draughts :p
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth|Work: from the first steps of AI making to creating a GO AI capable of beating a human also took like 50 years
10:32<Xaroth|Work>that makes it 5 minutes faster than learning go and being go at it :D :D
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>that difference is below the measurement error :p
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11:42<Samu>what are these messages?
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11:47<Samu>ah, must be Villages Is Villages translation doing wrong stuff
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12:49<Samu>hi glx
12:52<Samu>for a moment I thought this bug had been fixed
12:52<Samu>but it's something else
12:53<Samu>the state of the "Configure" button becomes enabled if I save the game and load it back
12:54<Samu>before save is different than the after load
12:55<Samu>i consider the after load behaviour the correct
12:55<Samu>before save behaviour is wrong
12:56<Samu>it's usually the opposite
12:57<Samu>but not in this case
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13:19<Samu>dealing with multiple gamesettings is hell
13:23<Samu>by allowing to change the script of dead AIs to another script then saving the game, I am going to load it back as the new AI and alive, not dead
13:23<Samu>isn't it possible to save the state of an AI?
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13:24<Samu>the AI is dead, save it as dead
13:24<Samu>then don't load it alive
13:26<@planetmaker>why shouldn't a dead AI be revived? A dead AI after all is somewhat a bug in the AI
13:27<Samu>it is revived, but with all of the infrastructure of the dead ai
13:28<+glx>same for non dead AI
13:28<@Alberth>hi hi
13:28<@planetmaker>hi hi :)
13:28<+glx>and most of them restart from 0
13:28<+glx>unless they saved some data
13:30<Samu>I think I opened a can of worms
13:32<Samu>my patch permits users to change the script of dead AIs to another.
13:33<Samu>if the user saves the game like this, the save will not keep which script died, just which script I have last set in there
13:33<Samu>if I load the save back, the AI revives as the new script
13:37<Samu>Do dead AIs save data?
13:38<Samu>I assume only alive AIs save data, but I may be wrong
13:40<+glx>a dead AI is just an AI that exited from its run loop, but other functions can still be called by openttd
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27565 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-05-13 19:45:33 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish (mexican): 13 changes by Absay
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14:43<V453000>steam just told me DOOM requires 52 GB disk space XD
14:44<Ethereal_Whisper>What lol
14:45<Supercheese>that list of modding changes for 0.13
14:45*Supercheese wipes his brow
14:45<V453000>hehe, 0.13 hype is real
14:45<Supercheese>also wrong channel eeehhh
14:53<V453000>ok download is only 43.8GB
14:53<V453000>the good part is that it actually send me back to do more factorio work :D
14:54<+glx>smaller than gta V
14:55<V453000>didn't play that
14:55<andythenorth>but is it any good?
14:55*andythenorth plays PrBoom now and then :P
14:55<V453000>idk, the doom thing is getting quite positive reviews so far
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>the original doom was like 3MB?
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>when was that? 25 years ago?
15:01<V453000>23 I think
15:01<V453000>1992 or 1993?
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 43.8*1024/2**(23/1.5)
15:01<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 1.08637759494
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 43.8*1024/2**(23/2)
15:02<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 15.485638508
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>well, that does sound like a reasonable margin :p
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>remember when they made games that fit on 1 DVD? :p
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>remember when 1 CD was bigger than your entire HDD?
15:04<Supercheese>I don't
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15:04<Supercheese>I do remember when we had a PC with a 3-CD-changer drive thing
15:04<Supercheese>that was weird
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>that's what they said when CDs were introduced
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>"they are so big, you won't need a HD anymore"
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>remember when games came on 14 floppy disks?
15:05<V453000>that meant hard dick back in the day Eddi, the nerds would just get instant nerdgasm whenever they laid sight on the thing
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't worry too much about dicks back then
15:11<V453000>while now... ? :D
15:20<V453000> /me runs
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15:39<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I installed Word 5.0 for MS-DOS on my 20MByte HD. It came on 20 floppy disks, each 360kByte in size
15:40<@planetmaker>(yes, those wobbly 5.25" ones)
15:41<Supercheese>when floppy actually meant floppy
15:44<@peter1138>3.5" discs were floppy... just the case wasn't so much...
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16:01<Eddi|zuHause>i think 5ΒΌ" disks went up to 1.2MB
16:01<@Alberth>ha, I booted a unix machine with a 8" floppy once :p
16:01<@Alberth>talking about 'floppy' :)
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16:01<Eddi|zuHause>i had a 8" floppy, but no drive for it :p
16:08<+glx>I have only 3" and 3.5"
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16:33<Eddi|zuHause>there were 3" floppies?
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17:22<Samu>how are the gamesettings created in-code?
17:23<Samu>newgame is creating something "wrong"
17:24<Samu>or load save is reading it "wrong", depending on the point of view
17:28<Samu>there's 4 different ways to trigger openttd to access a config_list
17:28<Samu>3 match, 1 doesn't match
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17:29<Samu>newgame doesn't match the others
17:33<Samu>newgame is testing this->config_list == NULL and returns false, the others are testing this too, but return true, it's then creating a new ScriptConfigItemList(); this->PushExtraConfigList();
17:33<Samu>it appends a "start_delay" to the list
17:34<Samu>for me, the newgame is doing it wrong, how can i check how a config is created when starting a new game?
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17:36<+glx><Eddi|zuHause> there were 3" floppies? <-- yes amstrad cpc :)
17:38<Samu>are there gamescripts without any config list? I see the issue can be quite complicated after all
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17:49<Eddi|zuHause>never heard of that before
17:55<Ethereal_Whisper>Damn clogged lines
17:55<Ethereal_Whisper> fffuuuu
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18:02<Eddi|zuHause>you have an odd number of lines for an even number of directions
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18:02<Eddi|zuHause>also, you're not load balancing properly
18:08<Ethereal_Whisper>Yeah, it's convoluted and dumb
18:08<Ethereal_Whisper>I'm trying to fix it
18:09<Ethereal_Whisper>Organic networks ftw
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18:14<Ethereal_Whisper> that's properly load balanced right?
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>there's not a lot of load to balance
18:15<Ethereal_Whisper>Not yet, I just started a new game and want to build things properly
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18:34<Samu> - _settings.newgame doesn't match
18:35<Samu>now I'm confused :(
18:36<Samu> has config_list == { size = 0 }
18:36<Samu>it should be <NULL>
18:36<Samu>there's something I don't quite understand
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18:37<Samu>_settings.newgame is the one that should be wrong
18:37<Samu>I don't get it
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18:38<Samu>is the main menu a loaded savegame?
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18:52<Ethereal_Whisper>There, I made my network a circle lol
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18:58<Samu>_settings_game is indeed the culprit
18:59<Samu>while in main menu, it retrieves information from _settings.newgame - and information stored here is correct
19:00<Samu>starting a new game, the information that is stored correctly in _settings.newgame is not passed correctly to
19:01<Samu>but something is wrong on my analysis, there's something amiss yet
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19:07<Samu>please explain me what happens in the main menu
19:08<Samu>is it a loaded save?
19:08<Samu>if it is, that save is storing wrong information in that is then passed through to a new game when it starts
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19:41<Samu>yes, i finally nailed it
19:44<Samu>void MakeNewgameSettingsLive()
19:45<Samu>this function is ruining it
19:45<Samu>openttd.cpp, line 368 more especifically
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19:53<Samu>there's 3 script types?
19:54<Samu>ai_config.cpp, game_config.cpp, script_config.cpp
19:55<Samu>when it is generating the settings for the AIs, it is using script_config.cpp instead of ai_config.cpp
19:55<Samu>how do I correct this?
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---Logclosed Sat May 14 00:00:13 2016