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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-05-17

---Logopened Tue May 17 00:00:18 2016
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05:24<Wolf01>moin
05:33-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
05:33<Samu>hi
05:37<argoneus>good morning train friends
05:37<argoneus>made it!
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06:19<lukasz1985>Hi there. Just simple question - is there a way I can change name of my grf in Bananas? If not then what would be the solution - just upload as new grf and let the old one just die?
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06:44<Eddi|zuHause>lukasz1985: or catch the sysadmin on a good day?
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07:03<lukasz1985>Haha, yeah, I guess that's another way to go. Better way - give him some beer.
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09:05<supermop>yo
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09:25<Samu>i finally got rid of silver slots
09:26<Samu>text in every slot is either orange or white, in every game mode.
09:26<Samu>white for selected
09:27<Samu>orange for selectable
09:27<Samu> static bool IsSelectable(CompanyID slot) { return slot >= COMPANY_FIRST && slot < MAX_COMPANIES || slot == OWNER_DEITY; }
09:29<Samu>I reduced this to 2 colors, from 3 in the original, and from 5 on my previous attempts
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09:40<supermop>ok
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10:01<Samu>simplifying bools wastes most of my time, it's fun, but gets boring if I don't get it right the first few times
10:01<Samu>((_game_mode == GM_MENU && GameConfig::GetConfig()->GetInfo() != NULL) || (GameConfig::GetConfig()->GetInfo() != NULL && Game::GetInstance() == NULL))
10:02<Samu>trying to simplify this one now
10:07<_dp_>easy, conjunction is distributive with disjunction
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10:11<@Alberth>moin
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10:12<Samu>there are 3 game modes NORMAL, EDITOR, MENU , the wanted result differs in the 3 modes
10:12<Samu>i was only working with MENU and NORMAL before, only now I realised EDITOR also needs to be taken care
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10:22<@Alberth>wb
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10:27<Samu>yay, 12 possible combinations
10:27<Samu>and only 3 must return true
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10:34<Samu>must return true to these 3 https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pi7vgev0n
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10:35<Samu>there are 3 game modes, 2 different "info" modes, and 2 different "instance" modes
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10:46<Samu>_game_mode != GM_NORMAL && GameConfig::GetConfig()->GetInfo() != NULL && (Game::GetInstance() == NULL || _game_mode == GM_MENU)
10:46<Samu>this should do it, gonna test
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10:55<Wolf01>stupid isp :(
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11:09<Wolf01>it is internet or what? I can't browse the websites even with the smartphone data connection
11:15<@Alberth>internet of 1 person :)
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11:19<Wolf01>maybe we have problems again on the backbone, shit happens every 3-4 weeks
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11:20<Wolf01>usually they fuck up in Milan and leave half of the Italy almost disconnected from internet
11:21<@Alberth>how nice :p
11:22<supermop>italy is a better place to be without internet than most at least
11:23<Wolf01>the best part comes when you are working for a web agency and customers call you to ask why their site doesn't work... while every site doesn't work, even google
11:23<Wolf01>but for the customers their website is more important and must work always
11:28<supermop>of course
11:29<Wolf01>one time it was really funny "my site doesn't work and I had to phone you because the email doesn't work too, also since your site doesn't work I had to find the phone number in the phonebook"
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>how is that special? if you're stuck in a traffic jam, the boss also doesn't care whether all others came late to work, YOU came late to work.
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12:04<supermop>all others at my office are at the trade show i went to on my own time sunday...
12:04<supermop>i wonder if i should bill for those hours sunday
12:05<supermop>dont get paid overtime though
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12:42<Samu>so many bugs i wasn't aware
12:42<Samu>t.t
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13:21<andythenorth>o/
13:24<V453000>hi
13:25<V453000>how are pixels?
13:26<andythenorth>progressing
13:26<andythenorth>slowly eh
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13:27<V453000>I am thinking about a new landscape concept
13:27<V453000>but I decided it is wiser to finish BRIX first XD
13:28*V453000 is wise as fuck
13:28<andythenorth>even wiser than that
13:28<V453000>O, thank you sir.
13:29<andythenorth>you’re welcome
13:29<andythenorth>is cat?
13:29<V453000>also last night I was very wise
13:29<V453000>came home from work at 1 am
13:29<andythenorth>how?
13:29<V453000>decided it is a good idea to play the new doom until 5 am
13:29<andythenorth>unwise
13:29<V453000>wisdom incarnate
13:30<andythenorth>but babies wake up at 5am anyway, so you were just being prepared
13:30<andythenorth>my first one used to wake up every 2 hours, all night
13:30<andythenorth>might as well stay up eh?
13:30<V453000>babies were sleeping in a different town so np
13:31<andythenorth>well then
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13:47<andythenorth>supermop can I interest you in drawing gen 2 and 3 fruit cars? o_O
13:49<andythenorth>this approach rarely works, on anyone :)
13:58<V453000>GIEF SPRIETZ OR ELSE
13:59<V453000>more likely to succeed :P
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14:06*andythenorth needs an offsider
14:06<andythenorth>working on 4 large sets alone is….
14:06<andythenorth>...words
14:06*V453000 needs an army of offsiders
14:07<V453000>nuts, yeti, brix, part, rawr, and one more thing
14:07<V453000>noep
14:08<Samu>will one day, a savegame include AIs in the intro game?
14:08<Samu>that would be funny
14:08<Samu>seeing it building in the background
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14:13<andythenorth>quak
14:13<andythenorth>V453000: we should join forces, and actually finish something :P
14:14<andythenorth>but eh
14:14<V453000>omg what a plan
14:14<V453000>I think we are joined forces enough already :P
14:14<andythenorth>yair no
14:14<andythenorth>we agree on principles, but not approach :P
14:15<andythenorth>also if we combine, that leaves almost nobody else making actual playable sets :P
14:15<andythenorth>booooring
14:15<frosch123>evening mammals
14:15<andythenorth>quak
14:15<V453000>point XD
14:15<V453000>hi frog
14:16*andythenorth wonders again if OpenTTD is over :P
14:16<andythenorth>every time I think that, something new turns up
14:17<V453000>I think it is still nice to make new stuff
14:17<V453000>I just dont have the time
14:17<V453000>mainly due to factorio 0.13 having 1394379895478 features
14:18<Alkel_U3>well, when that's out, nobody will have time nymore
14:19<V453000>I will! :D
14:19<V453000>nah, am actually looking forward to play 0.13 myself
14:19<frosch123>i need to finish my 0.12 game, i expect it to break completely
14:19<frosch123>in 0.13
14:20<V453000>the compatibility might surprise you
14:20<V453000>it doesn't break badly
14:21<frosch123>i suspect train length mostly :p
14:21<frosch123>purely based on ottd experience :)
14:21<V453000>just need to change your stations
14:21<V453000>but it doesnt break the savegame
14:21<Alkel_U3>I still expect it to in heavily moded games
14:21<frosch123>Alkel_U3: also judging by ottd experience? :p
14:22<Alkel_U3>frosch123: well, woth openttd, negrfs don't have to be updated for every major version :-)
14:23<frosch123>maybe that is our mistake :p
14:24<V453000>I have been told that mods shouldn't break terribly either
14:24<V453000>but I kind of fail to believe that :D
14:24<supermop>yo
14:25<Alkel_U3>heck, even the ancient (and for me, quite nostalgic) sets like tempset.grf still work fine
14:25<andythenorth>frosch123: break them :D
14:25<andythenorth>dunno what the win is there though
14:25<supermop>fruite?
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14:26<andythenorth>supermop: fruit
14:26<Alkel_U3>well, I hear things would be a lot easier if the game wouldn't have to accommodate to the old, ignorant grfs :-)
14:26<supermop>what are ytou looking for?
14:27<supermop>haven't played antelope long enough to get gens 2 or 3
14:28<supermop>maybe should start up something here
14:28<supermop>what year should I expect to see gen 2 and 3?
14:30<andythenorth>1915 or so for gen 2
14:30<andythenorth>but I only added it recently, won’t be in your game
14:30<V453000>1915 is insanely earl
14:30<V453000>y
14:30<V453000>:d
14:30<andythenorth>starts in 1860 or so
14:30<andythenorth>quite fun
14:31<supermop>andythenorth: i'm at work so don't have that game here anyway
14:32<andythenorth>supermop: strictly I need to work out the progression for the 3 wagon generations in antelope
14:32<andythenorth>I have 1 or 2 sets of sprites for most
14:33<andythenorth>need to work out whether it’s 6/8 -> 8/8 -> 8/8 (taller) or 6/8 -> 6/8 (taller) -> 8/8
14:33<andythenorth>or whatever
14:33<andythenorth>meanwhile, this 8/8 boxcar could be painted to fruit van http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/box_car_ng_antelope_gen_3_template.png
14:33<supermop>these are NG?
14:33<andythenorth>yup
14:33<andythenorth>they’re from NARS 2 mostly, but that’s scaled teeny-tiny
14:33<supermop>6 - 7 -8? or 5 - 6 - 8?
14:33<andythenorth>maybe
14:34<andythenorth>I dunno, wagon length changes are a bit annoying imho
14:34<andythenorth>I try to minimise them, but it’s a balance against having new and different sprites
14:34<supermop>true
14:34<andythenorth>also practically, redrawing a wagon taller takes a few minutes in photoshop
14:34<andythenorth>changing length takes longer
14:35<Samu>do you know of a GS without configurable parameters? need one for testing
14:35<supermop>i would probably not do a high-cube 6/8
14:35<andythenorth>I reckon 6/8 -> 8/8 -> 8/8
14:35<supermop>might look too tall
14:35<supermop>yeah
14:35<andythenorth>third gen is high cube, or has full width doors or whatever
14:35<supermop>yeah
14:35<andythenorth>they grow 10t capacity each time
14:36<supermop>it say gen 3 is maybe 1px taller, show more change in doors
14:36<supermop>thats what players see as the 'face' of the car
14:36<andythenorth>yes
14:36<andythenorth>increasingly, I’m only really focussed on the – view
14:36<andythenorth>| is almost irrelevant, and / \ just have to look ‘not crap’ :)
14:36<supermop>is SG an effective gen 4? or is gen 3 a parallel modern car?
14:37<andythenorth>SG is bigger, faster, shorter
14:37<supermop>andythenorth: also, the buy menu is where you really want to make the impression on users
14:37<andythenorth>gen 3 is a parallel
14:37<supermop>ok so gen 3 can look 'modern-ish'?
14:37<andythenorth>yes
14:38<andythenorth>full width doors or so
14:38<supermop>50s?
14:38<andythenorth>even ‘realistic’ :)
14:38<andythenorth>I’ll find a picture
14:39<andythenorth>supermop: http://grela.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=279225
14:39<supermop>andythenorth: did you code termite?
14:39<andythenorth>nah, foobar did it
14:39<andythenorth>shitloads of NG wagons here http://grela.rrpicturearchives.net/rsTypeList.aspx
14:39<supermop>gen 1 is 4 axel?
14:39<andythenorth>nah, 2 bogies
14:39<andythenorth>doesn’t really matter at this scale though
14:40<andythenorth>if I can get some help with these antelope wagons, they can be repurposed for llama and the japan roster
14:43<supermop>might base it a bit on some of these reefers
14:44<supermop>thinking ill keep 2 greenish, maybe grey for 3
14:44<andythenorth>nah, keep them all green, somehow ;)
14:44<andythenorth>then we know they’re fruit
14:44<supermop>ok
14:44<Samu>think i'm ready to upload my next revision
14:44<andythenorth>do the roof, or a 50% stripe or something
14:44<supermop>good call
14:44<andythenorth>I’ve got really into theming the wagon colours
14:44<supermop>i really like that in locomotion
14:44<supermop>liked
14:45<andythenorth>I didn’t play lomo, but I think it makes it a game for me, not model trains
14:45*andythenorth has enough model trains in the loft, does not need to confuse them with openttd
14:45<supermop>the chemical plant hand big blue storage tanks, and cargo waiting for chemicals was blue 50 gal drums
14:46<andythenorth>nice
14:46<andythenorth>also, reefer cars are needed, and they’re basically a box car with white sides and CC ends
14:46<supermop>i think chemical tankers were blue too but idk - i last played this game like 12 years ago
14:46<supermop>i like this guy:
14:46<supermop>http://grela.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=598246
14:46<andythenorth>big eh?
14:47<andythenorth>could be 9/8 or 10/8
14:47<supermop>like how some of the equipment is notched under at the end
14:47<andythenorth>this is all I have for ng antelope: hack of the brit one, not happy with it http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/reefer_car_ng_antelope_gen_1_template.png
14:48<andythenorth>SG one is generic and looks fine http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/reefer_car_antelope_gen_1_template.png
14:48<andythenorth>2 generations of ng reefer needed
14:51<supermop>will any ng wagons be longer than 8/8?
14:51<supermop>gen 1 and 2 box cars look the same on repo
14:52<supermop>might base by gen 2 fuit off the gen 3
15:00<Samu>bah dinner first
15:00<Samu>afk
15:03<andythenorth>supermop: yeah, I need a gen 3 box car, and move gen 3 to gen 2, I think
15:04<andythenorth>there might be some 9/8 or 10/8 wagons, if they look good
15:05<andythenorth>need to do stock cars too, probably just box cars, painted grey, with black slats? http://grela.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=624978
15:05<supermop>pony certainly gets big wagons in the 90s
15:05<andythenorth>yup
15:06<supermop>i actually was sort of basing the fuit car on the idea of a stock car
15:06<andythenorth>yeah
15:06<andythenorth>same thing in mind here
15:06<supermop>just because it felt right for time and place
15:06<supermop>to have something a bit more airy
15:06<andythenorth>given a general shape (van) colour is more important than fine detail :)
15:07<supermop>now i dont want to stick out my neck and become 'boxcar guy'
15:07<supermop>but i have some ideas for color scheming stock cars too
15:08<supermop>i like that grey steel, but smething in the more rust shades in the pallet could also work
15:08<andythenorth>would have to repaint the UK ones too ;)
15:08*andythenorth is open to suggestions
15:08<andythenorth>UK only has 2 so far
15:08<andythenorth>and Road Hog cattle trucks/trams aren’t really right yet either
15:09<supermop>yeah, that's why i don't want to open that can
15:09*andythenorth trying to tie both trains and trucks together
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15:09<andythenorth>well, I will take any help I can get (unless I don’t like it) :D
15:09<supermop>also - somehow it seems almost that stock cars should be 1st cc ever more than boxcars are
15:10<andythenorth>dunno, think it’s because we did brit first
15:10<andythenorth>and Dan chose grey
15:11*andythenorth has not much opinion on this, except they need to look distinct
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15:11<supermop>flipping box and stock blue and grey not worth it in all likelyhood
15:12<andythenorth>nah, I like the CC box cars
15:12<andythenorth>especially for american style wagons
15:13<supermop>send me an example of the doors you have in mind for gen 3, i dont know off the top of my head what the full width doors would be
15:13<supermop>are the hinged or sliding?
15:14<andythenorth>they probably look roughly like this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/reefer_car_antelope_gen_1_template.png
15:14<andythenorth>but open 50% of vehicle width or something
15:15<supermop>more like a euro style thing with the sliding closure?
15:16<andythenorth>here’s one with the doors off http://grela.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1834049
15:16<andythenorth>and doors on http://grela.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=621116
15:16<andythenorth>here we go, doors open http://grela.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=929896
15:17<supermop>hmm doors off, or open for loading? or 3 off one on?
15:21<andythenorth>open 2 of them
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15:23<supermop>ok ill do a gen 2 fruit and the gen 3 box and fruit maybe later today
15:24<supermop>the gen 2 should be don't shortly as i plan to just pallet swap your current gen 3 boxcar
15:24<andythenorth>thanks :)
15:24<andythenorth>this really helps
15:26<supermop>no prob just procrastinating realy work for an hour or so
15:30<supermop>i hope people associate the green bits that poke out of fruit crates on platforms with these cars.
15:31<andythenorth>ha
15:31<andythenorth>I wondered about drawing the load states to match
15:31<andythenorth>but I couldn’t be arsed :)
15:37<supermop>i certainly cant
15:37<supermop>hmm wondering if i should put cc on the doors, stripe on carbody, both, or stripe on doors
15:38<supermop>could also do 1 door 1cc, other 2 cc, or green car, grey door, cc stripe n door
15:38<supermop>might save that idea for gen 3
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15:45<andythenorth>supermop: just mix them up as you see fit
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15:45<andythenorth>the 1st and 2nd CC are randomised anyway when building (the sprites are copied at compile time and the colours flipped)
15:47<andythenorth>10/8 long? http://grela.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=930840
15:47<andythenorth>:)
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16:01<supermop>regular boxcar?
16:02<supermop>so much for loading gauge!
16:04<andythenorth>SAR is big ;)
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16:12<supermop>gen 2 fruit uploaded as issue
16:14<supermop>horse has no JP translator
16:22<supermop>don't think i really could tackle that though
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16:30<andythenorth>supermop: fruit car is in
16:31<andythenorth>looks good, dunno if my 8/8 idea works for 1915 though
16:31<andythenorth>looks a big...long
16:31<andythenorth>bit *
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16:37<supermop>hmm
16:37<supermop>chop?
16:37<supermop>i dont think a tall 6 makes though,
16:39<supermop>makes sense
16:40<andythenorth>supermop:
16:40<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7816/antelope_fruit_car_length.png
16:40<andythenorth>well, is the problem the 8/8 fruit car, or the other gen 2 wagons being 6/8? o_O
16:42<supermop>well if the other gen 2 are staying 6, so should the fruit car
16:43<andythenorth>dunno yet, using this to help decide
16:43<andythenorth>other problem is the SG box cars are 6/8 then 8/8, but *much* higher capacity
16:43<supermop>haha you've already got 3 rakes of them running about
16:44<supermop>pony ng cars are like little wheelbarrows
16:45<andythenorth>I think it has to go 6/8 -> 6/8 -> 8/8
16:45<andythenorth>or I have to redraw SG wagons
16:45<supermop>looking at those doors in those colors i feel the stripe is a mistake
16:46<andythenorth>that leaves me with a problem distinguishing gen 1 / gen 2 NG :P
16:46<supermop>should be bigger, or smaller, or not there
16:46<andythenorth>yeah the stripe is a bit….something
16:46<andythenorth>:)
16:46<supermop>use gen1 6s as gen 2, draw new 4s or 5s?
16:47<andythenorth>yeah that could work
16:47<andythenorth>that’s the most logical thing :P
16:47*andythenorth was trying to avoid it
16:47<supermop>also i feel like bolder color blocking is not graphically appropriate for 1915
16:47<supermop>could work mid century on
16:48<andythenorth>agreed
16:48<supermop>ie two doors of solid different colors
16:48<andythenorth>ok so 8/8 for the gen 3
16:48<supermop>i sort of chose the olive drab with early 20th C in mind
16:49<supermop>i mean the 6s dont look wrong for 1915, might even look too modern for 1860?
16:49<andythenorth>yup ok
16:49<andythenorth>more chibi
16:50<supermop>your call - just let me know if you want me to work the 8/8 to look more modern
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16:51<andythenorth>yes, I think that’s a good idea
16:51<supermop>can do the branding either way, early or mid 20th C
16:53<andythenorth>around 1970 or so for gen 3
16:54<supermop>ok
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17:03<andythenorth>supermop: talk some sense to me, the early brit IH wagons are 5/8, and that’s 16 foot IRL
17:04<andythenorth>these SAR wagons are 20 or 30 foot or more
17:04<supermop>thw 1860s ones?
17:04<andythenorth>IRL
17:04<supermop>or 1915
17:04<andythenorth>from pictures, from about 1900 onwards
17:04<andythenorth>I’m not too bothered about IRL scale, but there has to be some kind of consistency
17:05<supermop>between rosters you mean...
17:05<andythenorth>yeah
17:05<andythenorth>otherwise it’s hard to reuse sprites
17:05<andythenorth>laziness ftw :P
17:05<supermop>an idea that trains in antelope land are generally bigger even when on NG?
17:06<andythenorth>maybe
17:06<andythenorth>wondering if I should just redraw the antelope SG wagons to be longer
17:06<andythenorth>they’ll be used for US stuff probably anyway
17:07<supermop>that probably makes the most 'sense'
17:08<supermop>i do think there is value in keeping trains cute, maybe not value to everyone
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17:09<andythenorth>current state http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7817/antelope_car_length.png
17:09<andythenorth>NG left, SG right
17:09<supermop>what's less work? a new batch of 1860s 4 or 5/8 wagons? or a new batch of 10/8 wagons
17:10<andythenorth>potato / potato
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17:12<supermop>i still feel like the gen 1s are too modern for 1860 but i can't be sure nor imaging what the earlier ones would look like
17:12<andythenorth>http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Z9E1NXY9yzI/TGlt_5WZNKI/AAAAAAAAEL8/Rn5pGD-k67o/s1600/Grahamstown+locomotive+with+train+at+Port+Alfred+and+other+tank+loco+in+background+(1024).JPG
17:12<andythenorth>4 wheel
17:12<andythenorth>it’s fine, they should be 5/8
17:12<andythenorth>problem solved
17:12<supermop>also slightly longer NG wagons probably work better for japan
17:13<supermop>that is a cute train
17:13<andythenorth>yeah, that’s the look for 1860
17:14<supermop>found when looking for picture of japanese handcar:
17:14<supermop>http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/02/01/national/crime-legal/tokyo-police-baffled-by-theft-of-hand-straps-from-commuter-trains/#.VzuJpuIrKUl
17:15<andythenorth>bizarre
17:16<andythenorth>need some cibi coaches too http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Z9E1NXY9yzI/Sy_NqFr_x8I/AAAAAAAADH0/domRNKlH2GE/s1600-h/sar-zasm2.jpg
17:17<andythenorth>also bedtime ;)
17:17<andythenorth>bye
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17:19<supermop>http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201604160013.html
17:19<supermop>oops
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17:37<Samu>new version posted, :p http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1168837#p1168837 - too much text describing the changes.
17:38<Samu>doesn't even feel right
17:38<Samu>they're obscure fixes
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18:02<Samu>wow, trAIns AI is going to replace 2345 trains now
18:02<Samu>he's upgrading all to monorail
18:02<Samu>heh, I wonder how much time that takes him
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18:08<Samu>lol, scary sight
18:09<Samu>he sold 2000 trains
18:09<Samu>he's down to 326
18:17<Samu>oh, he upgrades the tracks piece by piece
18:17<Samu>that's gonna take forever
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18:30<Montana>I think creator did it to avoid a high level of CPU usage could cause crashing
18:31<Samu>he got 197k railway pieces to go yet
18:31<Samu>done 27k
18:32<Samu>his profit plummeted really big
18:49<Wolf01>'night
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18:58<Samu>2 years have passed
18:58<Samu>it looks like he needs 3~4 more years to finish the whole upgrade
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