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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-05-19

---Logopened Thu May 19 00:00:21 2016
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03:31<andythenorth>supermop pax/mail cars in
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04:30<V453000>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action5 why are 2 of the the 0D coast tiles (10) not used?
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06:03<Wolf01>moin
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06:18<Wolf01>ahaha "what do you want to do with ad.exe? [open] [download] [cancel]"... and they tell me to not use adblockers?
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07:06<Samu>hui
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07:51<Samu>this is confusing me: if (!valid) continue;
07:52<Samu>valid = true at the moment
07:52<Samu>!valid would make it false, right?
07:52<Samu>why does it continue?
07:54<@planetmaker>true and false are strings. Use numeric 0 and 1?
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07:55<Samu>bool valid = Company::IsValidAiID(i);
07:55<Samu>it is a valid ai id
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: adblock is way more important than a virus scanner
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09:55<supermop>YO
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10:33<Samu>my parent's HDD seems to be dying
10:35<@Alberth>all HDDs are dying, some are a bit more dead than others
10:35<Samu>Seagate
10:35<Samu>i was never lucky with Seagates
10:37<@Alberth>age is probably a more relevant factor :)
10:37<Samu>everytime one of ours HDD dies it's a Seagate, or Samsung branded Seagate
10:37<Samu>I don't think age matters much
10:38<Samu>that same system has got 2 Maxtors from the IDE age
10:38<Samu>they're alive
10:38<@Alberth>of course, they die immediately when you switch on for the first time
10:42<Samu>windows is barely responsive
10:42<Samu>takes time to answer requests
10:42<Samu>it could be a virus, or HDD
10:42<ST2>with some tables, I know Samu likes them ^^
10:42<ST2>https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/
10:43<Samu>windows restore started up fixing disk issues on the next reboot
10:43<Samu>now I'm unsure what to do, it tells me it may take hours
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10:46<Samu>it's a 500 GB Seagate barracuda, can't remember model
10:47<@Alberth>buy a new disk, imho
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10:57<Samu>seagate barracuda 7200.12 500 gb sata 3 16 mb cache
10:58<@Alberth>any particular reason we should know that?
11:02<Samu>ah no, 7200.11
11:03<Samu>I remember i had to deal with its firmware
11:03<Samu>to avoid it bricking
11:03<Samu>now it dies... apparently
11:03<Samu>screw seagate
11:05<Alkel_U3>the moral of the story: Harddisks die.
11:09<Alkel_U3>well, I hear good things about some Toshiba HDDs that are actualy rebranded Hitachi. I'd go for that, probably
11:10<@Alberth>nah, buy a new seagate, will give you something to complain about in a few years
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11:36<@Alberth>o/
11:38<andythenorth>o/
11:38*andythenorth in bed, with a bucket nearby
11:38<@Alberth>:(
11:39<andythenorth>[shrug]
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>i hope it's a bucket for drinking.
11:40<andythenorth>not so much
11:40*andythenorth reads forums
11:44<andythenorth>didn’t take long :)
11:45<supermop>yo andythenorth
11:45<andythenorth>lo supermop
11:46<supermop>use llama open car for antelope
11:46<supermop>gen 1
11:46<supermop>its alreadt 5/8, has a tan canvas tarp
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>when you speak of "llama", "antelope", "pony" i always think you're speaking some military codenames
11:48<supermop>who says we aren't?
11:55<supermop>playing an 1870 llama game right now
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12:04<supermop>hmm better to run a mineral train with two burros or one americano
12:04<supermop>that reminds me, i should go get an espresso
12:17<andythenorth>llama is junk :)
12:17<supermop>cute so far
12:17<andythenorth>the roster makes no sense
12:17<andythenorth>I’ll rework it once antelope is done, maybe
12:18<supermop>quarry is already making so much that i need double headed burros leaving every few days though with 5 tile rakes
12:19<supermop>so far in firs 2 ive found some industries easily will run these early game trains ragged
12:20<supermop>only in november of the first year and already most of trunk line is doubled, need all of it to be
12:21<supermop>i have a sheep farm doing 189 sheep and 225 bales of wool at 'normal' production level
12:27<@Alberth>yep, firs 2 has higher production :)
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>that's the problem with early starts, the production doesn't scale down along with vehicle capacity
12:32<@Alberth>firs 2 just has more production
12:33<@Alberth>even with default set in 1950
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12:34<@Alberth>quak
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>rülps
12:34<frosch123>moin mammals
12:36<supermop>ok june 1871 and whole trunk line doubled, part tripled. enough cash now to triple most of it
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12:51<supermop>andythenorth: what do you think about gen 1 llama open wagon? its pretty much exactly what i was going to draw for antelope
12:51<andythenorth>yeah that looks fine
12:52<supermop>could paint/pallet swap/ tweak a few pixels
12:52<andythenorth>supermop: you mean the SG one, or the NG one?
12:52<andythenorth>one is CC, one is brown
12:52<supermop>NG
12:52<andythenorth>hmm
12:52<supermop>i think
12:52<andythenorth>NG one is brown, it’s copy paste from NARS 2 I think
12:52<supermop>open_car_llama_gen_1_template.png
12:52<supermop>thats the NG?
12:52<andythenorth>nah SG
12:52<andythenorth>that one’s good
12:53<supermop>thats the one i took
12:53<supermop>has khaki tarp
12:53<andythenorth>made any changes? Otherwise I paste it in now
12:54<supermop>haven't changed anything, considered messing with the cc/adding a stripe or patch of 2cc
12:54<supermop>but i think it looks fine as is
12:54<andythenorth>I’ll commit it
12:54<supermop>cool
12:54<supermop>im off to get lunch with fiance
12:55<supermop>what else is left to do of the 5/8s / gen 1s?
12:55<andythenorth>flat car
12:55<andythenorth>which can be copied from pony
12:55<supermop>maybe i'll have time in afternoon to do one or two other cars
12:55<supermop>any gens 2 or 3 need reworking?
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12:56<supermop>anyway hightlight me while im out and ill let you know when i get back if i can get to it
12:57<andythenorth>ok :)
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13:01<frosch123>V453000: when the additional coasttiles were added, there was a discussion, whether canyon flooding should be a thing
13:02<frosch123>in the end canyon flooding was ruled down, but the sprites for it remained
13:02<frosch123>V453000: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=59561 <- that topic, and the topic linked from the first post
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14:09<supermop>ok
14:09<V453000>:(
14:09<V453000>I could really use that thing frosch123
14:09<supermop>canyon flooding?>
14:10<V453000>yeah
14:10<V453000>also, tbh that looks SO much more consistent
14:11<V453000>just having grass in the canyon for $reason isn't very sensible
14:11<V453000>it's level 0
14:11<supermop>should at least be wet grass
14:12<frosch123>V453000: well, canyon flooding results in inconsistent gameplay bevaviour
14:12<frosch123>and i prefer consistent behaviour over consistent looks :)
14:13<V453000>hm
14:13<supermop>this firs map could use more farms
14:13<V453000>what is gameplay wise different?
14:13<frosch123>build a road through a canyon
14:13<supermop>i feel like a 19th C game should be a bit more agricultural
14:14<frosch123>when does it flood, wehn is the road traversible?
14:14<supermop>frosch123: draw ford sprites?
14:14<frosch123>V453000: thing is, currently you can never flood something by removing something with a foundation
14:14<frosch123>with canyon flooding foundations have influence on what is flooded
14:14<V453000>ahaa
14:14<frosch123>so, removing a piece of track with foundation may suddenly flood something
14:14<V453000>and does it need to actually flood stuff?
14:15<V453000>can't it just draw water there without actually flooding stuff?
14:15<frosch123>where does it end?
14:15<supermop>haha
14:15<frosch123>a coast either ends at water or at land
14:15<supermop>ocean on mountains? ocean on houses?
14:16<V453000>what do you mean?
14:17<V453000>hm I think I see the problem
14:18<V453000>me is sad about that :( had a nice idea
14:19<V453000>basically this would flood my HQ if I removed the road eh https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/diagonal-flood.png
14:20<@Alberth>newobject water tiles? :)
14:21<V453000>not good enough
14:21<V453000>I can fuck it around, but hm
14:21<V453000>major pain
14:21<V453000>in other words I wanted to have different system for coasts and different system for hills
14:22<V453000>these diagonal valley coasts mean I can't do that
14:22<V453000>either one or the other system, but for all of them
14:22<frosch123>V453000: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/canyonflooding.png
14:23<frosch123>canyon flooding would turn the purchased land into water/coast
14:23<V453000>yes
14:23<frosch123>i have no idea where you would stop drawing coast
14:23<frosch123>and the roads at the top are the gameplay issue of canyon flooding
14:23<V453000>honestly, I don't find it to be a gameplay issue
14:23<V453000>I see your point, it is totally valid
14:24<V453000>just that I think it doesn't need to be 100% idiot proof :)
14:24<V453000>I'd say it shouldn't flood purchased land maybe
14:24<frosch123>well, i think the flooding behaviour is fine
14:25<@Alberth>obviously it should wait until you placed an expensive airport on it
14:25<frosch123>but we need some graphics for the weird corners without coast
14:25<frosch123>but back then noone had a concept how to draw graphics for those corners
14:25<frosch123>which are technically at height zero, but also aren't
14:25<V453000>which corners do you mean?
14:26<frosch123>those where the coastline is interrupted
14:26<frosch123>and where canyon flooding would continue flooding
14:26<V453000>isn't that just a normal coast tile?
14:27<frosch123>i mean graphics for slopes which have shore only in one corner, not along the whole slope
14:27<V453000>isn't that one of the things the replacenew allowS?
14:27<supermop>i feel like this a reason for ocean to have depth
14:28<supermop>and then say, any tile that is partially below 0 has ocean, and at flat tile at 0 is just a beach
14:28<frosch123>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/missingshore.png <- three identical water surfaces
14:29<frosch123>from right to left: 1. shore is complete, 2. two tiles miss shore sprites, 3. one tile is missing shore sprite
14:30<frosch123>the canyons need shore sprites at the beginning where they reach the water
14:30<supermop>frosch123: why not always draw the beachy part on the slope, and if a piece of land is flat at 0 but not floodable, draw it as all sand?
14:30<frosch123>they do not need shore sprites along them
14:31<frosch123>supermop: that's what i mean, but there are no sprites for it
14:31<supermop>someone could draw, myself included
14:32<V453000>are you talking about these? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/diagonal-flood2.png
14:32<frosch123>it depends on the graphics, in 2007 that sand part was even higher than those in opengfx
14:32<frosch123>you would need to draw some hill near the water
14:33<V453000>I would be very interested in drawing those if it could mean we could have this feature
14:33<V453000>separating shore graphics from hills completely that way
14:34<V453000>as long as it works like this, you can't really be creative which hurts mainly with 32bpp/EZ
14:34<V453000>if you can separate them, you can fuck with the border and things get interesting
14:34<frosch123>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/missingshore2.png <- i mean those
14:34<frosch123>the yellow arc should be sand
14:35<V453000>oh, I thought that is where the valleys/canyons of water should go
14:35<V453000>why end the water there with the yellow arc?
14:35<frosch123>.... because it breaks gameplay.... ?
14:35<frosch123>i already said that 3 times
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14:36<V453000>nah
14:36<V453000>if you can see the water next to the object you are removing, it is quite clear that it will flood through
14:36<V453000>after all, those nice canyons are just better rivers :P
14:37<V453000>the coast could get really nice with this
14:37<frosch123>not really
14:37<frosch123>did you look at the old screenshots?
14:37<frosch123>canyon flooding mostly looks weird
14:37<frosch123>also, where is andy
14:37<frosch123>we need his opinion on traveling with ships on those "rivers" :p
14:38<V453000>XD
14:39<V453000>honestly when I look through the old screenshots, the valleys look very nice to me
14:39<V453000>it makes sense, level 0 -> water spreads
14:40<frosch123>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=634358#p634358 <- oh, i even forgot about that
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14:43<V453000>ok that is considerably shitty :)
14:43<V453000>:( sad me
14:43<V453000>ok
14:44<V453000>I'll just do some silly shit :P
14:46<frosch123>maybe put some yetis in the corners, which block the water flooding
14:46<supermop>in 2007 arctic had a rocky beach?
14:47<frosch123>supermop: it's the "new water" newgrf
14:47<frosch123>it was the only grf back then that had this type of coast
14:49<supermop>i don't think i have ever used a water or shore grf
14:49<frosch123>supermop: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=105
14:50<frosch123>it's ancient
14:50<V453000>for arctic it is very nice, I used it a lot
14:51<supermop>in the time between when i used to visit forums around 2004 and when a came back to lurk around 2008
14:52<V453000>you didn't make me very happy frosch123 =[
14:52<V453000>sooo... vehicles consisting of multiple sprites? :P
14:53<supermop>around 2004 i found the forums while trying to figure out how to get tto to work on my circa 2003 computer
15:02<Wolf01>I leave you for 30 minutes and you start a discussion which now I must read :P
15:05<supermop>V453000: what exactly are you looking to accomplish?
15:05<V453000>with the shores?
15:05<supermop>or in general
15:06<V453000>well with the shores I want nice graphical shores which don't have to start AND end at the corners
15:06<V453000>which is not doable with the valley tiles being taken from normal terrain
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15:06<V453000>cause if you make the shore different, it breaks in those corners
15:07<V453000>with the multiple sprites per vehicle, I would like to massively reduce filesize of 32bpp/EZ grfs by composing it from layers (wagon, cargo, ...)
15:11<supermop>perfect for brio trains
15:14<V453000>perfect for anything, really
15:20<Wolf01>+1
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16:25<Eddi|zuHause>"this warranty is valid for 5 years after purchase" ... "purchase date: december 1975" ... very helpful :p
16:28<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Well, eight times the warrantied life ain't bad
16:29<FLHerne>Assuming it still worked until fairly recently, or you'd have thrown it out?
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16:30<Eddi|zuHause>i've sorted through a pile of instruction manuals. some of the documents are for devices that were already thrown out
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>this particular sheet was about a sowing machine, which still exists, but i don't think i have ever used in my life :p
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16:40<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: even a DDR sewing machine made in the 70s probably still works well
16:40<DDR>damn straight
16:40<supermop>i find only sewing machines made before 1900 or after 2000 are likely to be broken
16:41<supermop>and some of those 1900s singers still work pretty well too - if you don't mind the leg workout
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>DDR: serves you right for naming yourself after a non-existing country :p
16:44<DDR>he he he
16:45<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: maybe he thought it was like license plates - if the country doesn't renew the name, it goes back into the pool for the next entity to take
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17:03<supermop>so in 1870 i get a bulk terminal, but no aluminum plants yet to take the bauxite
17:03<supermop>(i can still make use of the chemicals)
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>bauxite in 1870 sounds wrong
17:04<supermop>but this to me suggests a humorous situation where people have not yet discouvered that you can extract aluminum from bauxite, but that some merchant at this port has decided to import hundreds of tons per month of it anyway
17:05<supermop>maybe he is trying to sell it as a decorative landscaping material
17:13<supermop>why are outdoor light sconces so expensive
17:13<supermop>the really cool designer ones and european ones are like 2-300$, which i can understand
17:14<supermop>but then the cheap generic ones are like 1-200
17:14<supermop>apart from a couple really ugly ones around $50
17:14<supermop>even some of the ugly generic ones are $200
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>not sure what you're talking about
17:15<supermop>lights to go on a wall outdoors
17:15<supermop>in a back yard, or side of a house etc
17:16<supermop>the budget for this project is $25,000 and i can tell right now that the deck my boss wants to use is going to be $80,000 alone
17:19<supermop>i bet i could design a nice looking shroud to cover an ugly light for less than $20 a piece
17:21<supermop>just drill 4 holes in a sheet of steel, fold it twice, and powdercoat it
17:31<supermop>is it odd that this train makes the segment from last waypoint into platform 2 days slower than from platform back to that waypoint on the return?
17:31<supermop>i guess it brakes slower than it accellerates
17:32<supermop>not sure how to timetable this
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>braking into station is kinda hardcoded speed reduction, whereas accelerating depends properly on power/weight
17:33<supermop>i thought the game based braking performance on HP
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>somewhat, but station entrance has some special code to slowly brake, instead of going fast to the last tile and then emergency brake
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>like it does for signals
17:35<supermop>now i wonder if i can save a day or so on the timetable by stopping at near end instead of middle
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17:37<FLHerne>supermop: Is it just that, or that sometimes it has to wait for a platform?
17:38<supermop>nope, brand new segment of line and service
17:38<supermop>this is the only train on it so far - doing test runs to get the timetabling down
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: stopping at end of platform may help if you want to clear the station entrance for other trains quickly
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: basically the code says "if you're less than X tiles away from stopping point, max speed should be Y"
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>if you watch the train, you see the speed go down after each tile border, then flatten out somewhere during the tile
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>(if it does not flatten, you do not have enough braking power)
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17:47<Eddi|zuHause>why, oh why, youtube, do you suggest to me some random shooter game video with greek language commentary?
17:52<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Might be IP-based?
17:52<FLHerne>Unless you have a static one
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's not really static, but i have no forced disconnection anymore
17:53<+glx>and even with dynamic IP it's bound to a country
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>so i should have had the same for quite a while
17:58<FLHerne>Eddi|zuHause: Well, that's the sort of case where Google might get it wrong
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>it wasn't even a video with millions of views
17:59<FLHerne>If your (or the Greek guy's) IP is usually unchanged for a while, they'd get the heuristic from that
18:00<FLHerne>Then when it does get shuffled for some reason (power cut? Router reboot? Whatever) they'd get muddled
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>says my connection is stable since 25.2.2016
18:04<FLHerne>Huh. I'm out of daft ideas then :P
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18:10<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: maybe they just felt bad for the guy and wanted to give him more views
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, it still had 4000 or so
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18:37<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Fri May 20 00:00:23 2016